|
I think the poem in Pale Fire is definitely meant to be mediocre at best, with a few nice bits. Several people criticize the narrator for publishing clearly unfinished work.
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 00:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 06:54 |
|
|
I wonder if it was meant to be published? It was so personal and candid
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
The Belgian posted:I think the poem in Pale Fire is definitely meant to be mediocre at best, with a few nice bits. This was my read, is it not everyone's read?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
I didn't know what to think. It's the only poem I've read in my entire adult life, and I had nobody to talk about it with
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 00:50
|
|
|
But that nice Professor Kinbote just spent 300 pages telling you all about it
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 01:11
|
|
|
Whatever was thought, whatever was said, I had my full reward in John’s friendship. This friendship was the more precious for its tenderness being intentionally concealed, especially when we were not alone, by that gruffness which stems from what can be termed the dignity of the heart.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 01:14
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:I didn't know what to think. It's the only poem I've read in my entire adult life, and I had nobody to talk about it with Read poetry you loving idiot
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 01:23
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:The Remains of the Day has been good so far. The narrator is a shell of a man because he deludes himself into thinking his role as butler/servant is worthy of dignity because he is a "major wheel" to the functions in a household where the world's most influential people come in and make their decisions while getting hosed up on nice wine. But his self-important role keeps him from being with his dying father because the demands of the capitalist system requires him to be an emotionless voiceless ghost to a bunch of elites who think of him as a novel slave. But he's also pissed because the next generation of butlers are a bunch of lazy pussies that want education.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
CestMoi posted:Read poetry you loving idiot Why?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 02:03
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Why? 1) it's good 2) it expands the ways that you see words, grammar, and structure put to use to convey meanings, frequently implied, multiple, contradictory, or ambiguous meanings. It is cool. It also enhances the way you approach reading prose. 3) it's a fundamental part of the literary body in pretty much every culture (there's gonna be like one out there with no poetry, I just know it) 4) corollary of the above: if you view literature as an interconnected group of works, instead of a bunch of completely separate works, which you should be, because it's the only way that make sense, you are lacking a big part of the "vocabulary." The writers you read read poetry. That, to varying degrees, affects/appears in their work. I don't think you need to get every tiny reference or backtrace possible connections to truly appreciate or understand a book, but there's really no reason to be willfully ignorant of an entire branch of literature. Probably some other good, obvious reasons I'm forgetting. Makes you look smart????
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 02:59
|
|
|
I would like poetry recommends for a noob. I got rupi Kaur milk and honey and idgi at all. So not whatever kind of poetry that is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 03:03
|
|
|
derp posted:I got rupi Kaur milk and honey hahahah why
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 03:10
|
|
|
Be cause I know nothing of poetry and I kept hearing the name and it was cheap
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
derp posted:I would like poetry recommends for a noob. I got rupi Kaur milk and honey and idgi at all. So not whatever kind of poetry that is. Get any anthology like the Norton Anthology of Poetry or the Penguin Book of Irish Poetry (that's a real good anthology) Or alternatively dip into the selected poems of Tennyson, I think the Penguin one has In Memoriam in full, which is an insanely good poem (avoid trawling through Idylls of the King first like I did) Yeats is also good, and he has range, from romantic stuff in his early years to modernist weirdness later on. Philip Larkin is popular as an intro to poetry but imho he's best avoided There's not much to get with Rupi Kaur because there's nothing to really connect with beyond its basic sentiment. Good poems are for sticking in your head and mulling over, hers are stuff you scroll past on instagram and like because you relate with it
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 03:28
|
|
|
ahahahahahahahaha gently caress, rupi kaurhackbunny posted:Why? poetry is almost culturally omnipresent, every human society from prehistoric tuber-chewing cavemen to refined sprawling civilizations has always had some variant of poetry ingrained in their culture in some way. I'm no professor on the subject, but I'd argue that poetry is the backbone of literature simply because it's the most direct and succinct form of expressing incredibly subjective thoughts and ideas through the ambiguity of language. that's the best way I can put it. you'd be missing out on a huge part of what makes literature so important if you don't read any poetry at all. aside from high school stuff, I really first cut my teeth on The Children of the Night by Edwin Arlington Robinson. I enjoyed it immensely and recommend it for anyone wanting to get more into poetry. admittedly almost all of the poets and poems I know about are American or English
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 04:02
|
|
|
Seamus Heaney, Edna St. Vincent Millay's translation of Fleurs du Mal, Black Marigolds and Colored Starsquote:Come to my arms, cruel and sullen thing; or just find a copy of the Fitzgerald Rubaiyat somewhere
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:or just find a copy of the Fitzgerald Rubaiyat somewhere Hell yeah, everyone should do this as a requirement of posting in this thread anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 04:41
|
|
|
J_RBG posted:Hell yeah, everyone should do this as a requirement of posting in this thread anyway. I have a copy that has literal book worm holes through it When I first picked it up the dessicated dead bookworm fell out
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 04:43
|
|
|
Lmao derp I think I love you
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 04:52
|
|
|
J_RBG posted:Hell yeah, everyone should do this as a requirement of posting in this thread anyway. Being a sufi has always been a sine qua non of posting in this thread
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Seamus Heaney, Edna St. Vincent Millay's translation of Fleurs du Mal, Black Marigolds and Colored Stars That's some good poo poo there. I can get into that
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:11
|
|
|
Coleridge is a poet who is fun and good to read, imo
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
quote:Late summer, and at midnight
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:19
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:When I first picked it up the dessicated dead bookworm fell out That was me
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 05:20
|
|
|
write "tamam shud" in all of your copies of the rubiyat, just in case
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
Tree Goat posted:write "tamam shud" in all of your copies of the rubiyat, just in case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamam_Shud_case
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 06:21
|
|
|
The local second hand book shop has a giant hardcover set of the Zohar taking up a whole shelf and I really want to become wealthy and buy it so that I can become a master of the Kabbalah
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:34
|
|
|
How much is it
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:40
|
|
|
CestMoi posted:How much is it To be honest I can't remember but probably several hundred dollars at least, and I don't really have anywhere to put it
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:43
|
|
|
I second getting an anthology. Personally I wouldn't get one of just Irish poetry if it's your first time, because I think broader is better. Read a thing about how to read poetry, this is one I found with google that looks pretty good to me, and covers most of what I heard in the coursera modern poetry class i watched like 4 sessions of (thus making me an expert): https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/text/how-read-poem-0 It's kinda long, but even if you just take away a few things from it (or only read half of it now or whatever, b/c effort), I think it will increase your enjoyment of reading poetry a lot. Here's a quote! that article posted:The goal of careful reading is often to take up a question of meaning, an interpretive question that has more than one answer. Since the form of a poem is part of its meaning (for example, features such as repetition and rhyme may amplify or extend the meaning of a word or idea, adding emphasis, texture, or dimension), questions about form and technique, about the observable features of a poem, provide an effective point of entry for interpretation. To ask some of these questions, you’ll need to develop a good ear for the musical qualities of language, particularly how sound and rhythm relate to meaning. This approach is one of many ways into a poem. Another thing discussed in that article, and that I have found particularly helpful in making poetry more interesting and enjoyable, is different approaches to reading a poem out loud. Reading poems out loud is cool and good, and you should do it. It also feels weird as hell, which is another reason why you should do it, really. You can find recordings/youtubes of poets reading their own work, and that can be pretty fun. So, after you've got your anthology and spent like half an hour about learning how to read poetry, read some poetry until you find something you like or at least think is okay. Then read that one again! Reading poems repeatedly is excellent! From there, go forth and explore further poems by that poet, or other poets associated with them (google it). If you find a poem that really strikes a chord with you, you might try memorizing it. Reading a poem that many times, and internalizing it enough to memorize it, will give you cool new insights into/thoughts about the poem, and is also a cool party trick. Oh hey, that sure is a lot of advice on reading poetry for someone who doesn't read nearly enough poetry ;_____; (argh i wanna buy that Penguin Book of Irish Poetry, but it's $21...but on the other hand the cover is extremely badass)
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 07:54
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Why? Because then you won't say stupid things like maybe the poem in Pale Fire wasn't meant to be published because it's so personal
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 08:43
|
|
|
Here's the one weird hack to reading poetry that will make your dick bigger and save you hours in your day: it's literally music
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 08:48
|
|
|
CestMoi posted:Here's the one weird hack to reading poetry that will make your dick bigger and save you hours in your day: it's literally music can't believe some rear end in a top hat already made the Bob Dylan joke >:-[
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 09:14
|
|
|
CestMoi posted:Because then you won't say stupid things like maybe the poem in Pale Fire wasn't meant to be published because it's so personal It's OK to say stupid things, though. And is poetry that makes you experience vicarious shame that common? hackbunny fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jan 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 10:04
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:It's OK to say stupid things, though. And is poetry that makes you experience vicarious shame that common? That's like 99% of all poetry
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 10:17
|
|
|
Forktoss posted:That's like 99% of all poetry We read Dante's Inferno in middle school but the moment closest to shameful I can think of is when Virgil shuts Dante up with "so God wills, stop asking", which is pretty funny the way it's worded but I'm not sure it's supposed to be [Italian color corner: the wording is funny to modern ears because - especially if read in the wrong cadence, "vuolsi così colà/dove" instead of "vuolsi così/colà dove", which a modern reader is likely to do at first - it sounds like a typically Tuscan prank, the supercazzora, where in the middle of conversation you start slipping non-existent words, until you're speaking entire grammatically correct sentences without a single sensical verb or noun, to the confusion of whoever you're talking with - usually a figure of authority, in an inversion of the usual relationship where they lord their power over you with legalese or other technical language. Monicelli movie Amici miei both popularized the supercazzora and ruined it by memefying it; in the English translation, "supercazzora" - a nonsensical word itself - was rendered as "supersnotter", and the immortal "come se fosse antani" as "just like Antarctica"] To go back to "personal works", from what I remember, Dante admits to great weaknesses (melancholy, lust, a vacillating faith) but no small ones. Not that a medieval man - a politician and military commander on top of that - would, I guess Other poems I remember from school were Manzoni's ode to Napoleon Bonaparte and Carducci's Il Parlamento, which failed to stir me to say the least This is the sum total of my knowledge of poetry. Great men writing great works about great men or their great works. An old English professor trapped by a misprint in an awkward conversation with a gushing elderly fan, let's say it was unexpected (not to mention something I would probably not admit under torture, much less put in writing)
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 11:31
|
|
|
derp posted:I would like poetry recommends for a noob. I got rupi Kaur milk and honey and idgi at all. So not whatever kind of poetry that is. just checking in on this lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 14:42
|
|
|
Rupi Kaur is fascinating to me because every part of me as an intersectionalist and feminist wants to go "maybe we are just not a part of the experience she is speaking to, and thus our criticism is unreasonable" and then I read a poem by her and its like "holy poo poo"
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 14:47
|
|
|
This seems to talk about the basic emptiness of Rupi Kaur well:quote:“YOU’RE NOT ALONE.” “DARE TO BEGIN.” “I love you./I know.” Poetry, or Anthropologie sales rack? Is there a difference? Instapoetry, the so-named slips of inspoverse that have propagated on Instagram like the common cold over the past few years, is a boutique of perfectly curated objets de commerce—“Raised lettering, pale nimbus. White,” American Psycho’s ideal business card gone digital—selling a sanitized unreality. It is not inquiry, it is not sedition, it is not richness, it is not even really beauty. It is status quo. It is confirmation that everything you are thinking, everything you are feeling, everything you are doing, is fine, perfect even. Instapoetry is an outcrop of a space that radiates niceness, that has in fact been pruned of that which is not nice. “A cynic may note here that [changes to make Instagram a more supportive environment] are as good for business as they are for the soul,” Nicholas Thompson recently wrote in Wired. “Advertisers like spending money in places where people say happy, positive things, and celebrities like places where they are less likely to get mocked.” This place has thus become a haven for the young, pummeled not only by the digital world but the world itself. And Instapoets have become their bards, reinforcing their narcissism, offering a filtered reflection of an anxious generation scrambling for distraction. “For me, poetry is like holding up a mirror and seeing myself,” Rupi Kaur, the best-selling Instapoet of all time, has said. In other words, this is the poetry of capitalism. The reason is that she's deliberately not intersectional at all, she doesn't articulate any particular kind of pain whatsoever. Which is completely anti-literature
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 15:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 06:54 |
|
|
I cannot tell if this is a parody or real
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 15:54
|
|