AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

The Proc posted:

I read a book about it called One Point Safe from the dollar general bargain bin so it's probably being given away on amazon.

1. Was it good?
2. I'm not sure I can take the book seriously, the author's name is clearly a pseudonym Leslie Cockburn

# ? Jul 28, 2014 03:01

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:23

Vindolanda: Feb 13, 2012; It's just like him too, y'know?

david_a posted:

I wonder what the Sopwith pilot's life insurance premiums are like.

Not too expensive, you only need it for a few minutes.

Unless you're properly trained, of course..

# ? Jul 28, 2014 03:38

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

movax posted:

I dig the hell out of this, that's awesome.

The AMU at Nellis that maintains the Aggressor F-15s (which still haven't gone away...I thought they were getting BRAC'd a year or two ago) is called Flanker AMU. AGRS in general adopt "threat" country stuff pretty hard-core, well beyond minor things like exhaust covers.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 06:07

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

I was looking up the Aggressors a few days ago and was surprised to see both Nellis squadrons still active. I thought they were going away too. Hopefully that was reversed.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 07:28

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Godholio posted:

I was looking up the Aggressors a few days ago and was surprised to see both Nellis squadrons still active. I thought they were going away too. Hopefully that was reversed.

Yeah the ATG is still pretty robust, both AGRS, the Space Aggressors, Air Defense Aggressors and a few others I think...maybe something good came out of WEPTAC a year or two ago.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 08:20

Smiling Jack: Dec 2, 2001; I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.

I once met an Army Chaplin assigned to some OPFOR or other (Fort Polk?) who was referred to as the "political officer" and wore a KGB uniform. Might have been a GRU outfit, I forget the specifics.

Also gently caress Ft. Polk.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 10:45

TheNakedJimbo: Nov 18, 2004; If you die first, I am definitely going to eat you. The question is, if I die first...what are YOU gonna do?

There's a private company called ATAC that does aggressor training with the Air Force and Air National Guard:

A4 Skyhawk, IAI Kfir, Hawker Hunter.

Navy E-2 with a trio of Kfirs.

I really adore the Skyhawk. It was popular as an aggressor plane (as seen in "Top Gun") because it was small and agile like the MiG-17 and MiG-21. I imagine the Kfir was probably used for the same reason. The big whale hump behind the cockpit is one way to distinguish a newer A4 from an older one; the hump is home to a bunch of advanced avionics that weren't on the original plane.

I didn't realize until this post just how many ATAC pictures I have on my hard drive. It makes sense, though: I like the Kfir and the Skyhawk, so any new and high-res photos of those two planes are probably going to be of the ATAC specimens.

TheNakedJimbo fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jul 28, 2014

# ? Jul 28, 2014 13:37

Tremblay: Oct 8, 2002; More dog whistles than a Petco

david_a posted:

Can somebody explain jet <-> missile compatibility to a layman like me? For instance, in the above article they mention that it would have cost a lot of money to upgrade the F-14 to handle newer missiles. The F-106 was apparently also saddled with mediocre missiles that held it back. I'm guessing a "missile system" is a lot more than just a goodie-filled tube with fins on it?

In the case of the 106 there were a couple factors. The jet was designed with vacuum tube based electronics. A modernization program was underway to create all new solid state hardware. This hit a couple stumbling blocks, some less obvious ones were weight and balance challenges due to the new components. This program started shortly before the F-4 IOC. Basically the AF said gently caress that and put the money into other programs. This is the rough story I was told by my dad who worked on the program.

Tremblay fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jul 28, 2014

# ? Jul 28, 2014 16:04

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

I've seen ATAC stage out of Elmendorf during Red Flag. I was absolutely puzzled why a Skyhawk was on the flight line.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 16:12

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

I'm more impressed by the Hawker Hunter. Though I guess with some really late retirements of those by Switzerland and some other countries it's not as implausible as it seems.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 17:13

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

Did the Soviets have anything similar to the Aggressor program/squadrons? I recall reading... something about that way back.

I imagine they might not have gotten their hands on any teen series aircraft, but whatever they could nab from say Vietnam should have been fair game right? Thinking F-5s, F-100, maybe a F-4 or a couple?

# ? Jul 28, 2014 17:14

movax: Aug 30, 2008

Pimpmust posted:

Did the Soviets have anything similar to the Aggressor program/squadrons? I recall reading... something about that way back.

I imagine they might not have gotten their hands on any teen series aircraft, but whatever they could nab from say Vietnam should have been fair game right? Thinking F-5s, F-100, maybe a F-4 or a couple?

I imagine even if they could have / did, I don't know if they had the political climate (not to mention infrastructure) to try and operate a robust aggressor program using foreign jets. Would be really interested to hear about what kind of DACT (if any) was done on the Soviet side though; they certainly flew enough airframes to supply the dissimilar part.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 17:19

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

The idea of the Russians operating an F-15 is blowing my mind.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 17:27

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Pimpmust posted:

Did the Soviets have anything similar to the Aggressor program/squadrons? I recall reading... something about that way back.

I imagine they might not have gotten their hands on any teen series aircraft, but whatever they could nab from say Vietnam should have been fair game right? Thinking F-5s, F-100, maybe a F-4 or a couple?

I did read once that they got an F-14 - an Iranian defector.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 17:39

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

StandardVC10 posted:

I did read once that they got an F-14 - an Iranian defector.

Whoa. Pre or post-revolution?

# ? Jul 28, 2014 18:04

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

In the GiP idiots thread somebody mentioned finding a couple going at it inside the intake of an F-14.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 18:40

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I have no problem believing most pieces of military hardware have had boning go on in, on or under them.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 18:47

Doctor Grape Ape: Aug 26, 2005; Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.

I wonder if Take My Breath Away by Berlin was playing.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 18:53

Fearless: Sep 3, 2003; DRINK MORE MOXIE

Arglebargle III posted:

In the GiP idiots thread somebody mentioned finding a couple going at it inside the intake of an F-14.

I've found a couple in medias res under the exhausts of a display piece CF-101.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:10

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

I know people have hosed in the AWACS.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:14

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

nevermind

Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 28, 2014

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:27

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

holocaust bloopers posted:

I know people have hosed in the AWACS.

Ew on every level.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:41

Dietrich: Sep 11, 2001

Fearless posted:

I've found a couple in medias res under the exhausts of a display piece CF-101.

I think you mean in flagrante delicto, unless they were telling each other a story.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:43

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Godholio posted:

Ew on every level.

Bunks, lavatory, both lower lobes. Yea, man.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:43

Insane Totoro: Dec 5, 2005; Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!

holocaust bloopers posted:

I know people have hosed in the AWACS.

Has anyone ever hosed on top of the radar dome?

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:52

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Insane Totoro posted:

Has anyone ever hosed on top of the radar dome?

Not that I'm aware of.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 19:54

Mazz: Dec 12, 2012; Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.

Insane Totoro posted:

Has anyone ever hosed on top of the radar dome?

Don't even need birth control

# ? Jul 28, 2014 20:16

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

What's a lower lobe? Does an AWACS only get it after 40?

# ? Jul 28, 2014 20:24

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Arglebargle III posted:

What's a lower lobe? Does an AWACS only get it after 40?

On a civilian airliner a lobe is where the baggage goes and where equipment is stored. On the AWACS, both compartments -- front and rear -- are stuffed full of gear.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 20:34

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

Insane Totoro posted:

Has anyone ever hosed on top of the radar dome?

Now THAT would be a story.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 21:20

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

It's probably a little difficult to do in-flight, unlike the rest of them.

On the other hand, when there's a will, there's a way...

# ? Jul 28, 2014 21:22

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

I'd doubt it. The stands used to access the dome are only pushed to the jet when there's work to be done within the dome itself. Doesn't happen regularly.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 21:23

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

Did a little googling and found this blog post about a Soviet Aggressor program:
http://thelexicans.wordpress.com/2013/08/12/soviet-aggressor-program/

Got some cool picks in there with markings and stuff.

quote:

Due to very poor showing of Soviet built aircraft in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the Soviet Union began a program generally known with the Soviet Air Force as The Center for Flight Personnel. The Center was located in Turkmenistan at an airbase called Maryy-1 (Maryy is pronounced �Marie).

Located at this base is a unit known as the 1521st Airbase unit. The 1521st consisted of 3 squadrons, 2 that would be considered �aggressor� units both flying the MiG-29 and an additional unit that operated the La-17 drone for target practice for the visiting Soviet Air Force units.

The squadrons of the 1521st was formed in 1974 and flew the MiG-21bis. Pilots for these squadrons contained a higher number of highly experienced pilots (distinctions of combat pilot experience in Soviet forces at the time were known as �First Class� and �Sniper� level pilots). These units had a higher proportion of these highly experienced pilot when compared to regular Soviet Air Force units.

quote:

Generally, the syllabus used by the units at Maryy-1 consisted of 5 parts:

-assessment of individual pilot skills.

-low level flying over the area�s featureless terrain for aircrew familiarization.

-ACM and QRA performance assessment.

-tactical excerises involving multiple aircraft.

-live missile launch and gunnery.

It should be noted that the Soviet Air Force had no TACTS system with which to provide real-time monitoring of aircraft involved in ACM (such as that used by the USAF and US Navy). All training was monitored in real time over the radio using a GCI from the 1521st and another controller from the visiting unit.

Soviet Air Force regiments� results reflected on it�s graded readiness level and as expected getting a perfect score in the evaluation was very difficult.

quote:

The 1st Squadron of the 1521st initially flew the MiG-21bis and then the MiG-29 Fulcrum-C. The tips of the horizontal stabilator and the wingtips were painted yellow, with a black outline, to make the aircraft look like the F-15 Eagle. To keep up that appearance, angled black converging in a black and yellow chevron were applied aft of the cockpit. Sharkmouth markings were also added to aircraft based on ground crew preference.

And this post got some info on actual western planes in the Soviet Union, mostly planes-in-pieces that they picked up and like, glued together:
http://thelexicans.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/western-aircraft-in-the-ussr/

quote:

This is a photo of what may be an F-4 Phantom and a Mirage III (with an 3M bomber in the foreground) taken at the Zhukovskiy airfield outside of Moscow. The caption dates the photo 11 August 1971.

quote:

This is a fuselage from a Northrop F-5. This is probably one of the 2 Skoshi Tiger aircraft formerly operated by the Air Force of South Vietnam. This is 1 of 2 F-5s transferred to Soviet soon after the Communist North invaded in 1973.

quote:

This is an escape capsule from an F-111 that was shot down over North Vietnam. The USAF lost 6 of these aircraft during the Vietnam.

quote:

This is a piece from an A-7A from VA-82 Marauders.

quote:

This is the vertical stabilizer from Scott O�Grady�s F-16C shot down over Bosnia in 1995.

Also a link to this video of a F-5 being test-flown by the soviets (and a A-37 Dragonfly):
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e52_1320882209

quote:

With the capture of the huge air base at Bien Hoa, the heroes of the North Vietnamese Armed forces were able to supply the Soviet, Chinese, & Polish air forces a number of US designs for evaluation. This F5 and two others were tested extensively at Chkalov State Flight Tests Centre, which is similar in operation to US Edwards AFB AFFTC, or the Tonopah Test Range.The F5 outperformed the MiG-21, and these results drove the development of the MiG-23.Pilots who were assigned to the F-5E, were Vladimir Kandaurov, Alexander Bezhevets and Nikolay Stogov.The F5 was of particular importance due to it�s export demand.

Here's a link in Russian (with pictures) of that pseudo Topgun program:
http://www.airforce.ru/awm/agressor/index.htm

Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jul 28, 2014

# ? Jul 28, 2014 21:25

benito: Sep 28, 2004; And I don't blab
any drab gab--
I chatter hep patter

Pimpmust posted:

Did the Soviets have anything similar to the Aggressor program/squadrons? I recall reading... something about that way back.

Must have been difficult when both sides were Red Team.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 21:51

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

MrYenko posted:

Whoa. Pre or post-revolution?

The book I read this in (F-14 Tomcat in Action by Squadron-Signal Publications) says only "during the Iran/Iraq war" so I guess post-revolution.

edit: Note however that another source says "no records exist" of an Iranian defection to the Soviet Union of this nature.

StandardVC10 fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 28, 2014

# ? Jul 28, 2014 21:54

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

StandardVC10 posted:

The book I read this in (F-14 Tomcat in Action by Squadron-Signal Publications) says only "during the Iran/Iraq war" so I guess post-revolution.

edit: Note however that another source says "no records exist" of an Iranian defection to the Soviet Union of this nature.

They may have been confusing it with the Iranian F-14 pilot who defected to Iraq.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 22:35

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

holocaust bloopers posted:

I know people have hosed in the AWACS.

This seems relevant:

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:33

Doctor Grape Ape: Aug 26, 2005; Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.

Nebakenezzer posted:

This seems relevant:

1,000,000 FLYING-WHORES

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:52

Fearless: Sep 3, 2003; DRINK MORE MOXIE

Dietrich posted:

I think you mean in flagrante delicto, unless they were telling each other a story.

What passes for post-coitus pillow talk on a cement slab afterwards, so I feel my Latin is accurate.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 04:16

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:23

Hunterhr: Jan 4, 2007; And The Beast, Satan said unto the LORD, "You Fucking Suck" and juked him out of his goddamn shoes

TheNakedJimbo posted:

I really adore the Skyhawk. It was popular as an aggressor plane (as seen in "Top Gun") because it was small and agile like the MiG-17 and MiG-21

I really need a Chuck Yeagers Air Combat II.

There I was... In an F-14... At 5,000 feet... Head to Head... With 4... MiG-21s...

# ? Jul 29, 2014 05:46

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