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The Albanians probably hate Russians with a passion. Seems to be a thing in the ex-USSR countries.
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Feb 21, 2018 11:10
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I believe Option 3 will bring men with the mettle we need.
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Feb 21, 2018 12:49
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Option 2 seems to have the right balance. I'd love it if we can get them some Have we talked bunkers/revetments etc for our big birds yet?
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Feb 21, 2018 13:05
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Dance Officer posted:The Albanians probably hate Russians with a passion. Seems to be a thing in the ex-USSR countries. With regards to bunkers we should have some experts on strength among the people of Gjader. I think we'll probably find it difficult to get proper HAS for our bigger birds but we can definitely do revetments and furthermore do false revetments containing plywood aircraft. Everything else should be safe in the tunnels so long as we can keep the bridge between the runway and the tunnels up. Or maybe ask the Ground Mercs if they have an AVLB that we could keep on standby in case the worst should happen.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:15
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Davin Valkri posted:Also, Yooper, with regards to the upcoming mission, can you clarify something for me? Which of the below scenarios is true? Either sometime before the ROMARM strike or sometime after. I'm hoping to make the ROMARM mission technically interesting, so I don't want to juggle a base defense at the same time and gently caress it up.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:18
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I like the look of Kuong's Kamrades They will bond with the locals over a shared love of barbeque and drink. BTW can we get one of the other merc companies on retainer for AD Arsenal? AFAIK Arsenal lacks in boots on the ground, so now that we've partnered with them, an investment to improve their capabilities could be interesting.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:33
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I'm feeling contrarian, so I'm going to pick Option 1: Kuongs Kamrades
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Feb 21, 2018 13:56
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B It's got the right combo of training our existing troops and mortars. Anything that requires heavy armor will be something that our aircraft can deal with.
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Feb 21, 2018 14:21
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Option 2, for most of the other reasons mentioned.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:09
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Option 2 for pragmatic and dramatic purposes.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:32
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Option 3 I'm personally not keen on having what are essentially deserters providing our security needs. Perhaps calling them deserters is overselling it, but i'm not too happy with how either 1 or 2 left their national armies, makes me think they're untrustworthy. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 15:52
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Option 2 They have someone fighting in a weddingdress! What more reason do we need! Also they strike a good balance and can teach the locals.
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Feb 21, 2018 18:10
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I'd like to know what qualifies as "armor": does Option 3 seriously have no means to get those 400 soldiers into combat (no APCs), or do they have a bunch of BTR/BMPs that might actually be really good for security (especially if the enemy has some helicopters)?
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Feb 21, 2018 18:37
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Option #2 Best mix with regards mixed threat, can train locals, snazzy dressers. I also want more shilka. Shilkas. Whatever the plural of 410,757,864,530 dead helicopters is.
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Feb 21, 2018 19:45
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Vote: Chingola The Russians are overkill, and while I really like the NK's, I think we also need the additional bodies that Option 2 gives us.
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Feb 21, 2018 19:59
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Much as I absolutely adore the Koreans (I soooo wanna hire them temporarily in a later theatre), them not being able to work with the locals much is a deal-breaker for this job. Chingola LLC wins it due to being both the more flexible and cheaper option capable of getting the job done.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:00
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thetruegentleman posted:I'd like to know what qualifies as "armor": does Option 3 seriously have no means to get those 400 soldiers into combat (no APCs), or do they have a bunch of BTR/BMPs that might actually be really good for security (especially if the enemy has some helicopters)? APC is limited to a smattering of old BRDM's. Most of the transport is "technicals" and discount Skodas, Dacia's, Kia's, and a few Land Rovers. Armor includes T-XX's (55's to 90's) They prefer to deal with air threats the American way: have good air cover.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:50
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DesperateDan posted:Option #2 Another couple of Pantsirs or Tunguskas couldn't hurt. They do the same thing as Shilkas but also have small SAMs and are more modern. We've seen how SHORAD is pretty good at sweeping up a plane's worth of bombs and really that sort of backstop is all we need.
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Feb 21, 2018 21:12
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Yooper posted:APC is limited to a smattering of old BRDM's. Most of the transport is "technicals" and discount Skodas, Dacia's, Kia's, and a few Land Rovers. Armor includes T-XX's (55's to 90's) They prefer to deal with air threats the American way: have good air cover. So the Russians decided to rely on air cover right around the time that the Americans realized that was a bad idea and started to reintroduce Bradleys dedicated to air defense... Sounds about right. 
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Feb 21, 2018 21:38
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Another couple of Pantsirs or Tunguskas couldn't hurt. They do the same thing as Shilkas but also have small SAMs and are more modern. We've seen how SHORAD is pretty good at sweeping up a plane's worth of bombs and really that sort of backstop is all we need. On the other hand Shilkas are cool as hell and we can probably buy one for like $8 and a case of beer. How many other weapons systems had an issue where runaway ammo cookoffs led to the barrels melting and falling off? You just can’t get that kind of quality elsewhere.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:10
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power crystals posted:On the other hand Shilkas are cool as hell and we can probably buy one for like $8 and a case of beer. How many other weapons systems had an issue where runaway ammo cookoffs led to the barrels melting and falling off? You just can’t get that kind of quality elsewhere.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:27
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Sounds like Yooper is setting us up for some CAS. 
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Feb 21, 2018 23:39
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Radio Free Kobold posted:So, what, get a half-dozen shilkas and hope the combined PK rolls of twelve shilkas keep any stray bombs from getting through? That might work, but I'm a bit concerned about the logistics of having two dozen shilkas. I mean where on earth are we going to put forty armored vehicles? Stuff them in the closet and hope Captain Kirk doesn't accidently get a faceful of fifty two SPAAGs? Let my plans never be mistaken for good ideas.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:40
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power crystals posted:Let my plans never be mistaken for good ideas. Not being a good idea has its own merits.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:45
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Let's spend the money to get some MANPADS for our dudes, whoever we decide on.
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Feb 22, 2018 03:00
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 Home, Sweet Bunker The reason we chose Gjader is because of that massive mountain bunker. We'd be fools to abandon it. Let's work around Gjader where we can (and where we can't, we'll pay people off). Here's what I suggest we do.  Yooper posted:We will run a few levels of patrols. First will be naval assets headed up by the Tokyo Bay Fortress. They will cover our west and rotate out of our local harbor. Closer in our radars will be located on strategic bluffs to give optimal radar coverage. The Atlantique and both Reapers will cycle while monitoring for threats. Helo Patrols: by Dutch NH90s doing patrols offshore. Air Patrols: by the Reapers (with Brimstones and Paveways) and the Atlantique (with Paveways) on rotating eight-hour long patrols. 2x Reapers and 1x Atlantique used. Sea Defenses: Dutch Frigates and Tokyo Bay Fortress moored offshore to provide radar, ELINT, SAM, and Goalkeeper coverage to the West. 3x Dutch frigates, Tokyo Bay Fortress used. Yooper posted:A pair of rapid-response interceptors will remain warmed up at all times with half the fleet on quick-standby (20 minutes) while the rest would take longer. (60 minutes +/-) If a threat is detected earlier via BONER or from Arsenal AD, then our assets can launch sooner. Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) Interceptors: Two F-15D Akef, armed with 4x AIM-7M Sparrow, 4x AIM-9L Sidewinders, and a DECM pod. 2x F-15D Akef used.  OPs: are 11 concealed Observation Posts on high ground around the base. Use four-man teams of late middle-aged Albanians (not as mobile as young guys, but more patient). Each OP has high-powered binoculars, a 7.62mm MG, and a secure HF Radio. 40 Albanians used. Sea Patrols: in the Dutch RHIBs, looking for sea infiltrators. 3x RHIBs used.  Radars, SAMs, and AAA: - Ground Master and I-Hawk battery on the ridge south of Gjader - radar active at all times. SA-22 and ZSU-23 platoons at the corners of our perimeter. If we buy more AAA and SAMs, we'll Ground Master, I-HAWK battery, 2x SA-22 platoons, 2x ZSU-23 platoons used.  Physical Defenses Perimeter Fences: install 10-foot perimeter fencing + concertina wire with motion detectors and security cameras (in red). If we want to add more artillery and AAA, we should expand the fences (in dashed red). Anti-tank Ditches: use bulldozers and backhoes - dig an anti-tank ditch around the perimeter (in red). Decoys: drag some of the old MiG-21s at Gjader out onto runway parking spaces and paint them to look like Bisons, buy high-tech inflatable decoys, get old aircraft (ex. an old 707 mocked up to look like the KC-135). In game terms, just place random MiG-21s and 707s in parking spaces on base and set them as "Under Maintenance" permanently. Attacking OPFOR AI will think it's a real plane and will target it (in pink). Additional Taxiiway: build an additional 1400m runway-grade taxiway leading from our aircraft bunkers to the main runway. This effectively gives us a third runway and lets us still get our planes from the mountain bunkers, even if we lose the original taxiiway (in yellow). QRA shelters: build hardened aircraft shelters with taxiiways and runway access points at the end of each airfield. While aircraft are on QRA, post them here, so they can rapidly taxi and take off. Large Aircraft Protection: get the tankers, transports and the Argus hardened revets so they aren't parked in an exposed area. Disperse Ammo and Fuel: build multiple ammo bunkers and underground fuel tanks and disperse our resources (in orange). Command Bunker: build a medium C3M bunker to keep Yooper and the rest of the Operations staff safe. Garrison Mobile Patrols: six three-man armed technicals patrolling the area outside the perimeter. 32 Albanians, 22 Zambians used Perimeter Patrols: five two-man foot patrols inside and outside the wire. Each patrol works eight hours a day. 30 Zambians used. Towers: build eleven watchtowers with one guard with a .50 cal, pulling two four-hour shifts a day (in dark red). 33 Albanians used. Vehicle Checkpoints (VCPs): three gate VCPs and two gate VCPs. Checking vehicles traffic for spies, saboteurs, and wet teams. Use guard posts with a small guard team armed with binos, a 7.62mm MG, and a radio - each with 9 Albanians (three on-duty, six off-duty) (in purple). 45 Albanians used. QRF: two 30-man platoons of Zambians in BTR-60s pulling a 12-hour shift. Another two platoons are resting - see the note about where resting troops go.180 Zambians used. Mortars/Artillery: on the hills over Gjader, 120mm mortar platoon with three 5-man 120mm mortar teams and a 5-man HQ movement. 20 Zambians used. Garrison Troops: remaining troops (appx. an [url=http://cmano-db.com/facility/2273/]infantry company[/u] or infantry platoon) stationed in a barracks. Consider this an abstract in-game representation of the men resting, training and guarding facilities. Remaining Zambians used. ------- Standard Operating Procedures 1. If a target is sighted at sea - send in the Dutch helos, frigates, and RHIBs to investigate. If suspicious - board and search. If it proves hostile - engage and destroy it, calling in help from the Reapers and/or Atlantique, as needed. 2. If a suspicious individual or group is sighted - send in the nearest Mobile Patrol or Foot Patrol to investigate. If it proves hostile - engage and destroy it, calling in help from the QRF, Reapers and/or Atlantique, as needed. 3. If a large enemy ground force is sighted - engage them with the Reaper and/or Atlantique, scramble the QRF to cut it off and buy time to arm our strike aircraft to engage it. 4. If a combat aircraft bogey is spotted on radar - scramble the QRA Interceptors. If hostile - engage and destroy it. Arm and launch other fighters as quickly as possible. ----- The Best Defense... Threat Awareness: ID potential adversaries (i.e. ROMARM forces, ROMARM contractors). Use the Prowler and the Tokyo Bay Fortress to snoop on communications. Use the Mirage, Argus, and Atlantique to gather ELINT about nearby threats. Use the Argus and Ground Master to look for anyone aircraft doing low-level and./or runway strike exercises. Threat Elimination: launch a coordinated first strike on the enemy forces before they can strike our base. ----- Shopping List Acquire Jammers: get radar jammers to prevent effective enemy AEW&C during strikes and prevent the enemy CAP from spotting/engaging our QRA as it scrambles. Get cell phone and comms jammers to prevent spying and ground attackers from coordinating. Acquire SAMs and AAA: get medium-range SAMs (I-HAWK, SA-8 Gecko, SA-11 Gadfly, etc.), short-range SAMs (SA-13 Gopher, Crotale, etc.), MANPADS (SA-16 Gimlet, Stinger, etc.) and AAA (ZSU-23, Gepard, M167 VADS, Tunguska, etc.) use this to beef up our IADS.
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Feb 22, 2018 03:04
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Going full Bunker Mentality does have its upsides, but I'm a little disappointed that we're completely at the mercy of the opposition taking initiative. At least this will deter commando-style ground raids, and we should have a good chance of catching air raiders. What this may not account for are the snoopers that we've already had to deal with: small drones. Jammers, and CRAM-style point defenses, may be our friends there; alternatively, 90s-and-later MANPADS should be able to shoot them down. (I'm not sure how a Stinger can lock onto a quadcopter, but it has happened in demos.) For a real-life datapoint, that Russian airbase in Syria apparently fended off a small-drone swarm of about two dozen without problems, using a mixture of EW and munitions. This was after they'd gotten embarrassingly owned by a mortar attack, though. Also, while we're operating in the Balkans... bibliosabreur fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Feb 22, 2018 |
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Feb 22, 2018 04:30
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First off let me say This is a really good start.Bacarruda posted:
However, I think we need more people manning the VCPs. I'm thinking 8 per shift: Checkpoint commander, Radioman, Forward and Rear sentries, two searching the vehicle and one searching the driver/passengers and someone guarding them. I figure we have a Zambian running the show for each shift plus 7 Albanians makes 15 Zambians and 105 Albanians, however, these can be rotated through the resting troops to reduce the strain. Also after some testing, we can fit the heavy aircraft inside the underground shelters, but it will mean leaving a lot of our medium aircraft in the open. However, I imagine these would be the aircraft we want on the tarmac anyways as the alert aircraft. Plus I would imagine its easier to build smaller shelters than larger ones. Outlaw1011 fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Feb 22, 2018 |
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Feb 22, 2018 04:47
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Also presuming we're going to come under some sort of ground/air attack combo, we might want to look at some HUMINT assets for seeing if we can piece together what might be after us. We could always just send some of the off-duty maintenance staff to bars and give them ten bucks and tell them we'll cover thier tab if they come back with anything useful. But some old fashioned intel could help us a lot. Also we can look into wire transfers or who is buying up ground merc contracts to get an idea of what might be possibilities of who will come after us. The normal attacking a hardened target numbers are -roughly- 3:1, which means likely we can expet a batallion or so level group coming after us if someone is going all out - possibly larger if they're expecting air attacks on them while they engage.
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Feb 22, 2018 07:41
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Outlaw1011 posted:Also after some testing, we can fit the heavy aircraft inside the underground shelters, but it will mean leaving a lot of our medium aircraft in the open. However, I imagine these would be the aircraft we want on the tarmac anyways as the alert aircraft. Plus I would imagine its easier to build smaller shelters than larger ones. The Argus should definitely be stored inside the mountain bunkers - the rest of the aircraft should get hardened shelters or revetments. To review our current base facilities and defenses:
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Feb 22, 2018 07:53
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Bacarruda posted:Home, Sweet Bunker Worst possible use of our resources imaginable is to put our defenses against a major thrust right next to the airfield. If they are that close we've already lost. All they have to do is sit right next to our base and take potshots to render it completely inoperable for the forseable future. Point security is for raids and sabotage. Assaults will have to be dealt with further away. The terrain is naturally suited for creating a dug in kill zone for our attackers but this plan relies on allowing them to drive through said terrain unopposed on the ground until they are right next to us. This is not acceptable. Terrain channels them through the valley from the north or more unlikely from south. the conclusions regarding our defense should be obvious. orcbuster fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Feb 22, 2018 |
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Feb 22, 2018 16:14
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This is all tentative, but here's the basic plan for the base defense. We can't make a mission plan for something that we don't know what to expect so we'll probably do it in phases. Phase 1 : We see the attack coming, or are attacked. Phase 2 : We engage and defend. This may be several phases including air defence, killing ground troops, or dealing with botes. Phase 3 : We respond. (With whatever is left) It won't be a surprise attack, but I want to simulate something along the lines of someone trying to do to us what we usually do to them. But we need to do it in a way that we're not monkey-hosed from the get go. That's not fun. Fighting a massive air battle above Gjader, that'll be fun. So once the attack is rolling I might only run 15 minutes of fight and then we'll go back to the thread and figure it out. Or maybe we'll go into a new phase when a threat arises or one is vanquished.
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Feb 22, 2018 17:57
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A massive air battle above our mountain-lair sounds  . We can get dogfights over the town, we can get people launching right out of the mountain, friendly
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Feb 22, 2018 19:18
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Radio Free Kobold posted:A massive air battle above our mountain-lair sounds loving rad. We can get dogfights over the town, we can get people launching right out of the mountain, friendly This is the part I'm definitely looking forward to, yes. The ground security planning may be interesting in the abstract sense, but in CMANO, mechanically they're just different ways of saying "eyeballs/targets", so we don't really need to specify how many people are at each checkpoint, for example. As for Ace Combat music, our home base is about to be raided by a massive aerial assault from an unknown direction. This is really the first music that comes to mind for that. And this is the second. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 22, 2018 |
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Feb 22, 2018 19:22
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Davin Valkri posted:As for Ace Combat music, our home base is about to be raided by a massive aerial assault from an unknown direction. This is really the first music that comes to mind for that. I was thinking Comona, but this suits the pace of CMANO a bit better.
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Feb 22, 2018 19:25
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Radio Free Kobold posted:I was thinking Comona, but this suits the pace of CMANO a bit better. We already had our Comona moment back in Angola. Good times...
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Feb 22, 2018 20:11
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Dr. Snark posted:We already had our Comona moment back in Angola. Good times... We haven't had a Comona moment until we're working for
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Feb 22, 2018 20:53
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Radio Free Kobold posted:We haven't had a Comona moment until we're working for Elon Musk, aging and senile, watches an old bootleg of 'Moonraker' from his Moon Base and decides its a great idea. Jeff Bezos, eager to have someone around to witness the ticks of his 10,000 year clock, contracts HG to play real life 'Missile Command' with Amazon delivery drones and the first prototype VF-1S's, secretly developed as the love child of 'Alexa', 'Watson', and 'Lockheed Martin'.
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Feb 22, 2018 21:36
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orcbuster posted:Worst possible use of our resources imaginable is to put our defenses against a major thrust right next to the airfield. If they are that close we've already lost. All they have to do is sit right next to our base and take potshots to render it completely inoperable for the forseable future. Point security is for raids and sabotage. Assaults will have to be dealt with further away. The terrain is naturally suited for creating a dug in kill zone for our attackers but this plan relies on allowing them to drive through said terrain unopposed on the ground until they are right next to us. This is not acceptable. I think we're focused on two different threat sets here. You're focused on a major armored thrust. I'm focused on air attacks, commando raids, spies, and saboteurs. Given that 1) ROMARM is too far away to launch their ground troops at us without us or Arsenal getting plenty of warning, 2) Yooper's explicitly said that YUGOIMPORT wet teams are on the loose, and 3) Willie and others have been massively-proliferating strike aircraft - I think air strikes and wet teams are the threats to prioritize. As for "allowing them to drive through said terrain unopposed on the ground until they are right next to us." Uh, no...A huge chunk of my proposal is dedicated to early detection and engagement with our air forces. If an armored brigade rolls through Albania, we're going to spot them or hear about them - giving us time to get off our strikers.
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Feb 23, 2018 00:11
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Ideally, Grand Soar will have their cameras rolling for our win.
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Feb 23, 2018 01:37
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