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Tevruden
Aug 12, 2004

I can't tell if that is a really smart move on John's part, or if he's just being a giant dork. (Probably the dork one.)

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
Well, that...probably wouldn't have counted? I mean, Dave was killed in his dream by DD with no apparent repercussions.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Yeah I think this was more simply what happens when you are attacked in dream bubbles (meaning it's not your dreamself getting attacked, since you have no dreamself): you wake up. Dave woke up right after being attacked by DD in the dream bubble rose was passing through back then too.

So I guess Rose is about to actually see her mother up close?

tinaun posted:

Oh, and have this graph of homestuck updates by time of day:


I love how hilariously useless that is since it doesn't specify what timezone it's for.

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


Yep, MEENAH is without question the pre-Scratch Condesce. And also a giant rear end in a top hat.

She's right though, that was an awfully nerdy outburst from John.

Hamiltonian Bicycle
Apr 26, 2008

!
Yeah, that's not how it works. If John had somehow flown out there bodily rather than just sort of popping up dreamwise, then he might have been in potential trouble.

It's great how this meant he just missed Dave and Karkat, apparently.

(What was her plan! I guess probably it was just trying to arrange her own death - and maybe at least one other player's - in order to avoid getting erased/reset by the A Scratch.)

Choray
Oct 31, 2009

Tollymain posted:

quote:

a 13-year-old boy and his friends play a cool new video game that yanks them into another dimension before sterilizing the planet with a storm of meteors

theyre thrust into the role of typical rpg protagonists in a rich “individually tailored hyper-flexible mythology” but it quickly becomes apparent that the “game” is using them to facilitate some higher purpose. one of the kids abandons her “quest” and begins tearing the world apart in search of clues.

during their adventure they’re contacted by aliens from another universe, in a completely separate timestream — they can see the kids’ entire past and future, up until the last few minutes of the game, when “the sky goes all weird” and theres the sound of a record scratch. at that moment something was flushed out of the kids’ game session and into theirs, preventing them from claiming “the ultimate reward” and sending them into hiding on a remote asteroid.

at first they harass the kids, blaming them for their predicament — mysterious messages the kids have been receiving since childhood turn out to have been authored over the span of half an hour — until an avenue for escape presents itself and they reluctantly start to work together.

a huge chunk of the plot is driven by characters’ differing reactions to predestined events. with characters inhabiting two separate axes of time, ontological paradoxes become commonplace; cause and effect are inextricable and the narrative freely jumps around to follow the threads between them. this can be bewildering if youre not paying attention (“are you taking notes? get a loving pen.”)

the story follows a classic adventure-game format, with each panel preceded by a “command” — in the early days of homestuck these were suggested by the readers — and followed by a few paragraphs of text. at first the commands are addressed to a single character (“John: Retrieve mail.”), but later we find more general commands applying to multiple characters in different ways (“Enter.”), or to the plot itself (“Descend.”). the format proves to be malleable: one character discovers a computer terminal on a post-apocalyptic planet that allows him to command the story’s protagonist. another character assumes the role of narrator for a while, taking up residence in the website’s banner, and the commands become his monologue. he keeps a scrapbook of panels from the story, allowing the reader to sift through them interactively and explore little tangents to the main plot.

images and phrases are recycled into a rich internal vocabulary of callbacks: a paragraph of purple prose written as a throwaway joke resurfaces as a prophetic nightmare (dreamt in morse code). words are milked mercilessly for their meanings, puns become plot points; a peculiar turn of phrase might hint at a vast secret being assembled behind the scenes. the kids’ actions and words at the start of the story establish synchronicities that resonate throughout their adventure: impaled birds, werewolves, characters missing an arm and an eye.

thats what homestuck is

Best explanation I've seen yet. The sheer length (and the undoubtable necessity for it thereof) is pretty hilarious :v:

Clearly this is just the Alternian translation of 'Homestuck'.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

So the A1 trolls had a plan. A plan that involved dying.

Calling it now: they went to the afterlife as part of a last-ditch effort to unfuck their session or universe by getting support from players in other sessions.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
Just noticed that John did in fact get stabbed by the fork, watch the very tips before it falls.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007
Roxy's expression is loving slaying me here.

Hamiltonian Bicycle
Apr 26, 2008

!

Nate RFB posted:

Just noticed that John did in fact get stabbed by the fork, watch the very tips before it falls.

Yes, that's why he woke up. Seems to be more or less the same thing as happened when DD "killed" Dave during his conversation with Rose at the end of Act 5.

Cabbit
Jul 19, 2001

Is that everything you have?

Nate RFB posted:

Just noticed that John did in fact get stabbed by the fork, watch the very tips before it falls.

Amusingly, it's taken this long for dreams to actually follow dream logic. You die in a dream while actually dreaming, you wake up.

Boneless Jogger
Apr 20, 2010

Slime posted:

Roxy's expression is loving slaying me here.

Yeah, I was about to say that. Meenah is throwing a 2x3dent at her and she's just in her own happy little world.

Also, the only thing I can come up with regarding her plan is what has already been said here. That is, they escaped the scratch by dying before their Beat Mesa eqivalent reached Skaia. Guess we'll just have to wait for more information, but that's what I'll go with for now.

Edit: Also, I have to say I like the line "snoozing mystery girl, look out!" It's just such a John thing to say. :allears:

Boneless Jogger fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 25, 2012

Well Manicured Man
Aug 21, 2010

Well Manicured Mort

Boneless Jogger posted:

Yeah, I was about to say that. Meenah is throwing a 2x3dent at her and she's just in her own happy little world.

Also, the only thing I can come up with regarding her plan is what has already been said here. That is, they escaped the scratch by dying before their Beat Mesa eqivalent reached Skaia. Guess we'll just have to wait for more information, but that's what I'll go with for now.

The idea of A1 trolls escaping the Scratch through a mass suicide pact is all kinds of disturbing.

Wrist Watch
Apr 19, 2011

What?

Yeah, the comic was pretty rosy before, what with things like Vriska having to kill her own parent figure and later controlling someone else's mind, making him write the words "kill me" over and over again in her own blood.

Cabbit
Jul 19, 2001

Is that everything you have?

Wrist Watch posted:

Yeah, the comic was pretty rosy before, what with things like Vriska having to kill her own parent figure and later controlling someone else's mind, making him write the words "kill me" over and over again in her own blood.

Mass suicide pacts are a bit of a step up from what was a mercy killing and a mercy killing combined with a revival into superpowers, though granted the step up from the latter to a suicide pact was much smaller than the former.

Jazu
Jan 1, 2006

Looking for some URANIUM? CLICK HERE
Is it me, or is it some kind of thing that main characters sometimes forget that they have telekinetic powers? It's that weird kind of stupid that I don't think anyone actually is.

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

tinaun posted:

Man, that tumblr is amazingly good at creating the most crazy theories.
That second one isn't all crazy, that firefly in amber John picked up is 100% definitely Serenity. Coincidences like that just don't happen in this comic.

ActionZero
Jan 22, 2011

I act once more in
imitation of light

Roxy is rapidly approaching favourite character status.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


Well Manicured Man posted:

The idea of A1 trolls escaping the Scratch through a mass suicide pact is all kinds of disturbing.

What I'm curious about is just how mass it was.

If you'll recall, when the trolls were first conceived of, Hussie admits he didn't think he was going to detail all twelve. He figured they'd just be a little peanut gallery of distant players to provide some new perspective on the game, but it didn't take long for him to decide to expand their role and before we knew it we had Hivebent.

The waves of new characters that geometric character casting has produced with this comic (the ancestors in parallel to the guardians, the pre and post scratch universes) has at times caused some grumbling that the comic is filling up. Technically we've known that the ancestors were the players in the pre-scratch troll session, but since they were supposedly wiped by the scratch they weren't relevant. A handy way to keep the cast down to a manageable number, then, is to have just a handful - maybe even just Meenah and 'Kindfang' - having escaped the scratch through death. It cuts off this particular branch of cast expansion fairly cleanly.

I also admit to some personal curiosity about the consequences of being left behind during a scratch and would like to see it discussed more in the story. I know it'll never get dialoglog time but I'd really like to see Jade explain why she left Derse behind when they fled the old session.

Cabbit
Jul 19, 2001

Is that everything you have?

Jazu posted:

Is it me, or is it some kind of thing that main characters sometimes forget that they have telekinetic powers? It's that weird kind of stupid that I don't think anyone actually is.

I'm going to assume the 'cast time' for using the Breeze is longer than it would have taken to knock her out of the way, since a lot of this world operates on game mechanics.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007

Bongo Bill posted:

So the A1 trolls had a plan. A plan that involved dying.

Calling it now: they went to the afterlife as part of a last-ditch effort to unfuck their session or universe by getting support from players in other sessions.

Given that Meenah's running around shanking people she's never met I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that her plan wasn't in the least bit constructive. In fact I'ma go ahead and bet that a certain bulb-headed poo poo suggested in a roundabout fashion that she'd get to be Queen Jerk of the Universe in exchange for ruining everything.

Tollymain
Jul 9, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Cabbit posted:

Amusingly, it's taken this long for dreams to actually follow dream logic. You die in a dream while actually dreaming, you wake up.

I can say from personal experience that this is not true.

Duskfiend
Apr 5, 2011

Awwwk! Awwwk!
I noticed that it is currently March, which corresponds to Pisces. I don't know if this is important since we have a Pisces troll on the scene. Has Hussie ever introduced trolls during their respective sign?

P.S. Pisces ended on the 20th, depending on which version of the zodiac you follow.

Snowboat
Mar 24, 2012

by angerbutt

Duskfiend posted:

I noticed that it is currently March, which corresponds to Pisces. I don't know if this is important since we have a Pisces troll on the scene. Has Hussie ever introduced trolls during their respective sign?

P.S. Pisces ended on the 20th, depending on which version of the zodiac you follow.

No. The only times the month is important are on arc dates, like 6/12 and 4/13.

Ass-Haggis
May 27, 2011

asproigerosis confirmed
All things considered, yep still an idiot.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
If Meenah believes that she is dead because her plan worked, do you think maybe that plan was the A1 Scratch?

life_source
May 11, 2008

i got tired of looking at your edgy baby avatar that a 14-year old would be proud of

YggiDee posted:

If Meenah believes that she is dead because her plan worked, do you think maybe that plan was the A1 Scratch?

I am almost thinking the plan somehow involves that and the pink moon. It kind of seems like the area here is the pink moon, maybe?

Something like
Start Scratch -> Die -> Somehow transfer your deadself/ghost to the pink moon -> Live, dead, forever on some weird dreambubble/furthest ring/pink moon hell.

The Pink Moon has a lot of strange connections. We don't know anything about it, other then it has been there since the start of Act 5, that Rose and Roxy have pink text, and that it was between them at the end of Roxy's Dream Bubble romp flash.

life_source fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Mar 25, 2012

Bell_
Sep 3, 2006

Tiny Baltimore
A billion light years away
A goon's posting the same thing
But he's already turned to dust
And the shitpost we read
Is a billion light-years old
A ghost just like the rest of us

YggiDee posted:

If Meenah believes that she is dead because her plan worked, do you think maybe that plan was the A1 Scratch?
I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. I don't think anybody bulb-headed was involved, though he has talked to girls in other universes before. I suspect this was between her and Echidna

nerdbot
Mar 16, 2012

life_source posted:

The Pink Moon has a lot of strange connections. We don't know anything about it, other then it has been there since the start of Act 5, that Rose and Roxy have pink text, and that it was between them at the end of Roxy's Dream Bubble romp flash.

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003136 earlier than that.

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻
That was almost a heroic death there :ohdear:

sansuki
May 17, 2003

Anyone else notice that this is Act 6 Intermission 2, or Act 612?

Midnight Raider
Apr 26, 2010

Considering her somewhat nefarious personality so far(and the fact that under other circumstances she seems to easily take to being an evil overlord sea queen for hundreds of years), as well as her wording of "my plan worked", I'm definitely on boat with those who wouldn't immediately think that was all some kind of group-effort plan to save everyone from the Scratch.

Maybe being a Derse princess who possibly had a thematic connection to the Furthest Ring moreso than others, she was informed of the dream bubbles beforehand(although perhaps not as something her ancestor/descendent Feferi was going to cause in the future), and saw that as a way out of sorts. This coming to the benefit of the rest of the Trolls may have been only secondary concern to her, or perhaps not at all, and the others in the dream bubbles had already died beforehand in the course of the game, maybe.

Or maybe she different information than that, and made a deal or figured out some way to ensure that her next incarnation would be in a real seat of power with her own pet horrorterror. (Perhaps not knowing that she wouldn't actually be her own next incarnation.) Or something very different than this.

Color Printer
May 9, 2011

You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...


....I'm sensing a bizarre sense of scale here. :raise:

closeted republican
Sep 9, 2005
Either the meteor is really small, or Terezi's Hive is absoluatly huge.

Chocolate Milk
May 7, 2008

More tea, Wesley?

Tollymain posted:

the story follows a classic adventure-game format, with each panel preceded by a “command” — in the early days of homestuck these were suggested by the readers — and followed by a few paragraphs of text.

Wait, is this true? The way my friend explained it to me, the earlier adventures like Jailbreak were based around reader suggestions, but Homestuck never was.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


^^^Yes, Homestuck was, leading to many of the running gags. I mean, Hussie got so many suggestions that he was basically writing the story he wanted anyway, but still some of the quirks of how people gave commands or some oddball commands he chose gave rise to some running gags. It suited the early, ramping up part of the story well but he gave it up at some point when it started holding back the comic's pace.

Color Printer posted:

....I'm sensing a bizarre sense of scale here. :raise:

That's the great thing about dreams, scale is highly malleable, and subject to change at whim.

Edit: I've always thought a really good way to do an epilogue for Homestuck would be to bring the suggestion box back, an odd sense of returning to where we once began and all that - not like he'd be short of commands, and it'd have a sort of "everything's back to normal" vibe to it.

Or, just as interesting, have it seem like we're in the epilogue with commands for John as he walks around his newly restored house, only to slowly unravel the situation and realize he's been put into a dream bubble to fool him into thinking that everything's back to normal. Then have the actual final boss battle.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Mar 25, 2012

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Chocolate Milk posted:

Wait, is this true? The way my friend explained it to me, the earlier adventures like Jailbreak were based around reader suggestions, but Homestuck never was.

Homestuck started that way too. It's evident in the relatively meandering pace of Act 1. During the updates when WV was giving John orders, the instruction box was in fact locked, heightening the mystery of his identity.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist

Chocolate Milk posted:

Wait, is this true? The way my friend explained it to me, the earlier adventures like Jailbreak were based around reader suggestions, but Homestuck never was.

Jailbreak and Problem Sleuth were entirely reader driven, Jailbreak to the point where Hussie would exclusively take the first command submitted. Homestuck was similar, but less so, in that the suggestions more provided story flavor and one-off gags. There's an old blog post by him that explains it better, but basically he started experimenting with shutting down the suggestion box in act 2, then reopened it. The Felt intermission was entirely written by him, and he shut the box down when he was preparing EOA4, which was originally scheduled to be 4/13/10, the one year mark. It was only supposed to speed things along while he worked on Descend, but the story was moving so much quicker that he left it closed for good, with the exception of naming the trolls in Hivebent.

Futaba Anzu
May 6, 2011

GROSS BOY

He stopped accepting suggestions when we all died in the Reckoning.

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nerdbot
Mar 16, 2012

I've gotten a number of emails over the years from people who read this page and went to the trouble of digging through the closed suggestion box to find who suggested it because they loved it that much. I know it's pretty dorky, but I actually keep a list of suggestions I made that were used before it closed.

I can even remember the update that came in tandem with him announcing the closure of the suggestion box: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003336 Though he reopened it briefly to take suggestions for troll names.

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