|
It was certainly better than Iron Fist and Luke Cage, but I'd put this right around Daredevil season 2 in terms of quality. A lot of good, but a lot of mediocrity and it was just uneven. I think the main thing that made this feel better was the tight pacing of it. 8 episodes means they were able to cut about 5 hours of filler that would have dragged this show down. Granted, they might have used those five hours to have the characters say what they were thinking instead of saying "it's a long story/it's complicated" every ten minutes. Plus it just blasted all of Daredevil and Iron Fist with plot holes that make the previous seasons more confusing (mainly Daredevil). I hate to say it, but the fight scenes really are the worst part of this, if only for how some are alright and the rest are awful. Luke Cage goes from taking nearly everything Danny can dish out without flinching to dodging sword blades and punches. Jessica's super powers are just as poorly defined as they were in her show. Finn Jones did better, but considering his benchmark that isn't saying much. I still think (and so did everyone in the show) he should be benched and someone else should take his place. I will hazard a guess though, that in the next Iron Fist show he'll wear a scarf like the old Iron Fist did as an attempt to take up Daredevil's role in the city.
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 08:44 |
|
|
Lycus posted:In retrospect, it's weird that Gao and Nobu were seemingly on equal footing in DD S1. Gao wasn't part of the Hand at all until Iron Fist.  JackDarko posted:Yeah I should have been clear! I do mean MAX, id love to see Barracuda. What we know so far is that part of the Punisher series will be flashbacks to Frank's time in Afghanistan and the villain will be Jigsaw, who in this series is an old comrade of Frank's from the military who now heads a PMC. Microchip is in as an ex-NSA hacker, and there's a Department of Homeland Security agent investigating Frank as a potential terrorist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:28
|
|
|
Happy Noodle Boy posted:Also the conveniently timed only a couple of dudes actually have guns and they mostly go for Luke moments were silly as hell. Re:Superpowers, I get the feeling the Hand was built for a world without superheroes (save Iron Fist) and kept forgetting about the giant bulletproof man. Like, even considering Elektra and the Five Fingers' strength, in a post-Battle of New York world, they were hilarious out of their depth. Honestly, even if their plan had worked, in the context of the MCU, they'd last maybe a week before the Avengers found and smashed them. Their brand of immortality probably doesn't cover getting atomized.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:Given the current national climate I hope the Punisher season 1 is Frank taking down a gang of neo Nazis and white nationalists. Seconded. Happy Noodle Boy posted:
He's the Dumbest Iron Fist yet, but Danny's not a murderer. Punching someone with the Iron Fist will murder them dead. Look what happened when he punched Luke when they first met. Lycus posted:In retrospect, it's weird that Gao and Nobu were seemingly on equal footing in DD S1. What's-his-face knows how to delegate. Gyges posted:That's because every single thing in the entire show up was leading up to that conclusion. And then they decided, nah, it's actually all about Chinese folk medicine. Look, dragon bones are a non-renewable resource. Sure, the Hand could switch to issuing clean renewable Iron Fist Chi Energy, but that would require putting effort in converting their systems that, frankly, the shareholders won't stand for. The shareholders need that child blood mixed with dragon bone dust, you see. For reasons. I don't think this series has fully lived up to my, or some other people's expectations. I have to remind myself of what people probably wanted. and I relax a little. Endings are never what vocal people seem to want.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:35
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Gao wasn't part of the Hand at all until Iron Fist. Interesting! Hope they nail the pacing properly, flashbacks can drag on or interrupt the pacing if there's nothing interesting going on. I'm a fan of not really showing Frank's backstory much especially at the start.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
The level of communication between the showrunners.quote:But then, do we know where the city of K’un-Lun went? A part of me thought that was Shou-Lao only because K’un-Lun disappeared, and New York did have a conveniently huge hole in the middle of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
JackDarko posted:Interesting! Hope they nail the pacing properly, flashbacks can drag on or interrupt the pacing if there's nothing interesting going on. I'm a fan of not really showing Frank's backstory much especially at the start. Supposedly, according to leaks, we're also going to see Frank's family and their deaths. They don't want DDS2 to be required viewing to understand Punisher.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:42
|
|
|
CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Seconded. Dragon liver can cure a cold Dragon powder grows hair With dragon blood you'll never grow old Every item is covered in gold!
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:45
|
|
|
Considering the hands reach, why didn't they have any judas bullets? Like either the big ones or the ones rhe NYPD has that were mass produced?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Gao wasn't part of the Hand at all until Iron Fist. Gao's an up-and-comer. She went from New York crime boss with powers, to high ranking member of the Hand, to one of the founders of the Hand. bunnyofdoom posted:Considering the hands reach, why didn't they have any judas bullets? Like either the big ones or the ones rhe NYPD has that were mass produced? To be fair, I'd want to forget about the Diamondback arc too. Lycus fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Aug 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:He's the Dumbest Iron Fist yet, but Danny's not a murderer. Punching someone with the Iron Fist will murder them dead. Look what happened when he punched Luke when they first met. Nah, he does punch some mooks with a glowing fist, or at least blocks their punches/kicks with it which should also destroy them. Which is fine since they were much better contextualizing The Fist as something that relied on Danny actively using his chi, which itself was a limited resource. The apparent continuing arc of Danny currently being the worst and dumbest Iron Fist in history is actually a decent way to build off the multitude of issues stemming from IF season 1. Which is really one of the main strengths of the Defenders cap season. Defenders does a pretty good job of setting up the 4 shows for their next seasons. Plus the implosion of the Hand leaves the only interesting villain from the organization and steps it away from undead ninja business people who also deal drugs and infiltrate more organizations than Hydra. IF looks to be in an actual character arc of learning not to be the dumbest, worst Iron Fist in history. Daredevil seems to be heading for an adaptation of Born Again, and thankfully it looks like Matt and Karen aren't going to be romantically involved anymore. Luke Cage is beginning to amass some Heroes for Hire vibes and is being intertwined with Iron Fist via supporting characters. Jessica Jones has reopened her PI business and appears to be down to just 7-10 drinks a day!
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
Jessica Jones now drinks like me!
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
I liked it. Some thoughts: Foggy is an ugly man. I thought the pacing was really well done and it didn't feel drawn out like some of the other Marvel Netflix series. No one gives a gently caress that Stick is dead. Harsh I didn't see Iron Fist but it seemed to me like they intended to have a portal to Kun Lun under NYC the whole drat time but maybe there were some budget concerns so they just stuck with the cave. Elektra's motivations at the end are stupid, and Matt trying to save her is just too cheesy to handle. Gao is an ok character but I hate her powers and presence in fights. Jessica felt very out of place in almost every fight.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
After DDS2, I complained that the ninja stuff didn't work because we had no idea what Black Sky was and why we should be afraid of it. Now we know, and it's so much worse. Black Sky is a zombie ninja that's somewhat better at fighting than it was when it was alive. The Hand can make a Black Sky whenever they want, the only problem is that it takes up a lot of dragon bone juice. That is the thing Stick said armies would follow based only on the name. Meanwhile The Hand has enough reach, power, and money to build a skyscraper in Manhattan and dig a thousand foot deep hole under it that will cause New York to collapse, all without a Black Sky. So what's the loving point? And why was that Japanese guy so mad at Alexandra for making a new Black Sky when it was presumably his wing of The Hand that had let their previous Black Sky get killed?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
Gao in the parking garage made me think of Yoda in Attack of the Clones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
Just finished it. I give it a solid 6/10. It had a few cool fight scenes, and a few characters (notably JJ) really shined, but it was difficult to get over the terrible writing that frequently bordered on outright retarded. Like, Matt can somehow hear what is going on thirty stories underground, but cannot detect Jessica following him into the alley and taking photos of him as he leaps up to his apartment. Or the way everyone talks about how the Hand is vastly resourceful and has infiltrated virtually every organization, but then they decide to put all the sidekicks in protective custody in an NYPD precinct where the cops can't even keep the evidence room properly secured. I also wasn't a fan of Danny in this one. In Iron Fist his whole "naive idiot rich kid" gimmick worked well because it fit into the plot with regards to him rejoining modern civilization after being raised by monks, but IMO in the months following the events of IF, he should have grown up a little and gotten his angst and ego under some level of control. Instead the Danny we watched in this show was the same one we watched in IF. No character development or growth. CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:He's the Dumbest Iron Fist yet, but Danny's not a murderer. Punching someone with the Iron Fist will murder them dead. Look what happened when he punched Luke when they first met. Yeah, this is another stupid thing about the writing - he was willing to straight up murder Matt when they got into a fight, and would have if Luke had not stepped in and taken that punch. Anyway, the order of shows from good to bad is now: DD2 first half with punisher > DD1 > JJ > LC first half with cottonmouth > Defenders > LC second half with diamondback > IF
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:23
|
|
|
But seriously, does the Defenders showrunner know that Patsy fought in JJ, and wasn't a non-combatant character like Karen, Foggy and Jessica's neighbor? The strength of Danny's glowy fist waxes and wanes as much as Elektra's strength. Lycus fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
Lycus posted:But seriously, does the Defenders showrunner know that Patsy fought in JJ, and wasn't a non-combatant character like Karen, Foggy and Jessica's neighbor? She "fought" by taking one of Nuke's pills, then had a cardiac arrest immediately afterwards. Her actual fighting skills are questionable at best. We see her take private self-defense classes but she never actually participates in a fight. The one time she is about to, she gets tasered and knocked out at the very beginning.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
If Claire is good enough to be in the sidekick fight scene, then Patsy definitely is. She used the Nuke drugs and fought someone on Nuke drugs. So she'd have to have skill. The heart attack had nothing to do with skill. And of course, everyone gets knocked out when the plot requires it. Lycus fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Aug 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:39
|
|
|
Lycus posted:But seriously, does the Defenders showrunner know that Patsy fought in JJ, and wasn't a non-combatant character like Karen, Foggy and Jessica's neighbor? Hell I just remembered, the neighbor was a power ranger, sub him in for Danny.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2017 23:42
|
|
|
I liked how the other Defenders just let Karen and Foggy stand there and stare dramatically at the door instead of just telling them that Matt didn't make it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
Guy Goodbody posted:After DDS2, I complained that the ninja stuff didn't work because we had no idea what Black Sky was and why we should be afraid of it. Now we know, and it's so much worse. Black Sky is a zombie ninja that's somewhat better at fighting than it was when it was alive. The Hand can make a Black Sky whenever they want, the only problem is that it takes up a lot of dragon bone juice. That is the thing Stick said armies would follow based only on the name. Meanwhile The Hand has enough reach, power, and money to build a skyscraper in Manhattan and dig a thousand foot deep hole under it that will cause New York to collapse, all without a Black Sky. So what's the loving point? I finished the show and woof. I don't want a Daredevil season 3 after all of this and that dumb ending. That was just so stupid. This was a huge let down and honestly it really makes me worried for the Punisher.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Lycus posted:The strength of Danny's glowy fist waxes and wanes as much as Elektra's strength. They at least did some hand waving on The Fist by talking about how it takes concentration and energy, and Danny is an impulsive idiot with focus issues. Elektra's strength flux was only more noticeable than Luke and Jessica's because she was the main antagonist. Punches from Luke, Jessica, or Elektra should put anyone without super powers out of a fight, but almost never do. Also Luke should have had approximately 0 issues with any of the Hand dudes considering Danny is peak K'un-Lun martial arts and couldn't even make him flinch without the Iron Fist. Instead the 2 new Hand guys whose names I don't know both were slapping him around a little. Speaking of inconsistent powers, how the gently caress did Bakuto suddenly develop an immunity to bullets? enraged_camel posted:She "fought" by taking one of Nuke's pills, then had a cardiac arrest immediately afterwards. She private trained with rich people resources to become a master martial artist. She's the best actual fighter in all of Jessica Jones, and the only reason she had to take the pill is that Nuke was hoped up on super steroids and was suddenly in the Jessica strength and endurance ballpark while also having actual fight training and experience. They show that she's better than ex-special forces Nuke at fighting without drugs at least once. It did make more sense for her to not come since she knows nothing about the Hand and all Jessica told her was that people were trying to kill her. If Trish knew what Coleen and Claire knew, she probably would have insisted on coming along. Instead we got a scene where Karen and Trish pretend to detective off the least secure police precinct in history's evidence wall.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
Daredevil starts filming in October and Marvel is not going to fix any problems with tone or scripting or fight choreography, which means we are going to get even more of this nonsense, and it will probably be even worse. Goddammit this is disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
Gyges posted:, and Danny is an impulsive idiot with focus issues. It is funny that the bad guys almost won because Danny lost his temper and started throwing wild punches at someone that was never going to kill him. Stick was right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:DD2 first half with punisher > DD1 > JJ > LC first half with cottonmouth > Defenders > LC second half with diamondback > IF Ableist slurs aside you have the exact correct taste in Marvel Netflix shows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
10 Beers posted:Agreed. I enjoyed it! It was fun and entertaining. No great work to survive the test of time, but it was fun and entertaining.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
As Nero Danced posted:Dragon liver can cure a cold Hannibal Gao?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:25
|
|
|
Lycus posted:I liked how the other Defenders just let Karen and Foggy stand there and stare dramatically at the door instead of just telling them that Matt didn't make it. They didn't want to spoil it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:33
|
|
|
Gyges posted:She private trained with rich people resources to become a master martial artist. She's the best actual fighter in all of Jessica Jones, and the only reason she had to take the pill is that Nuke was hoped up on super steroids and was suddenly in the Jessica strength and endurance You remember wrong. Here is the actual scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJEkF7hKluU&t=230s Yeah she gets a few hits on Nuke, but only because Nuke is trying to not hurt her, and he says as much. But the moment he gets her hands on her he throws her across the room like a rag doll, and Jessica has to come to the rescue. So no, she isn't actually Nuke's equal in skill in any shape or form.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
I enjoyed the superhero punch ups in this. It make me a lot less annoyed than watching Supergirl or Flash- past season 1 especially-. Getting superstrength to show all the time seems to be a real issue in here, since they don't have the benefit of AoS' budget. Granted, I never watched JJ so I don't know whether her limit is ripping a fire hydrant out of the ground or picking up a car or shoulder tackling a train till it tips over but I still agree that it felt like they were underselling her strength at times. The HAND's most noteworthy ability being their ability to disappear like Talbot with no explanation like Talbot in Uncharted 3 was at least something though. Overall, I enjoyed it, and I'll probably binge through it again some other time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:40
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:You remember wrong. Here is the actual scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJEkF7hKluU&t=230s That's Nuke on his drugs. I probably poorly phrased it, but I'm talking about when both of them are drug free. Didn't she kick the poo poo out of him when he was under Killgrave's orders to get her?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 01:45
|
|
|
This show felt like such a slog. I'm ready for Jessica Jones Season 2 already, but I think I'll pass on another season of this team-up with this director.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
Yeah, both JJ and Luke Cage admit they aren't trained in any way, so their method is to just hit hard and in Luke's case, take hits. JJ even flat out says "am I the only one who doesn't know karate?" so her fighting style is to grab a hold of someone and throw them into a wall/ceiling/floor. She probably pulls her punches too, because a full strength punch would probably tear a guys head off, which is something she doesn't need.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
Gyges posted:The apparent continuing arc of Danny currently being the worst and dumbest Iron Fist in history is actually a decent way to build off the multitude of issues stemming from IF season 1.[/spoiler] there was a moment in the defenders where jessica jones knocks a guy down then walks over to him, grabs him by the collar of his shirt, then yanks him up hard enough that he hits the ceiling then falls back down. i liked that. that was the only real standout moment for me, fight-wise. the team-up hallway fight that i had already seen most of was pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
This was a pretty ok show that really lacks a single standout scene like Daredevil's hallway fight and once again has multiple villains with greatly varying levels of interestingness. JJ and Matt are the only characters that actually develop and the show focuses a lot of bridging her character from season 1 to season 2 of her show. Danny is still the worst and dumbest but still better than on his own show. Everyone constantly dunking on him was amusing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:27
|
|
|
cams posted:this was kind of straight up text in the iron fist show. iron fist was a show about a broken ptsd manchild who can kinda fight pretty good but is naive and stupid. the stupidity and "out of depth" naivety are pretty standard parts of the iron fist character, though i don't think iron fist in the comics ever existed as a novice. he can barely use his power and puts an even fight against his childhood buddy. i don't mind it but "fish out of water" naivete coated with eastern mysticism works for me. The only people pointing out Danny sucks in IF are the villains. Defenders builds on that and has allies and heroes tell him he sucks, and unlike in IF he seems to accept that he needs to change. IF had him talk about needing to complete his training, but Defenders expands that to him needing to grow overall and come to terms with not just his kung-fu limitations but also his personal limitations. When anyone calls out Danny in IF, he gets petulant as all gently caress and ignores what they said. When Luke calls him out in Defenders he goes and reflects on what Luke said and actually changes his methods. Iron Fist put out the idea that maybe Danny isn't a great Iron Fist, but did nothing with it other than some fun burns from villains. Defenders ran with the idea and built on it, potentially changing the arc of the character significantly. Depending of course on what IF 2 does. I was kind of hoping Orson Randal and his steampunk hideout was what was actually behind the Iron Fist wall.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
I can go for a JJ and Matt combo show instead of S2 and S3.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:31
|
|
|
Lycus posted:I can go for a JJ and Matt combo show instead of S2 and S3. Yeah,I would like it if there was a DD and JJ season, a JJ and Luke Cage season, and a season of JJ just constantly making GBS threads on Iron Fist. I know love triangles are cliche, but the fact that Luke Cage and JJ can gently caress without having to worry about hurting the other person is a thread I would like to see explored. Daredevil and Luke doesn't seem that interesting since they are both cut from the same "I hate violence unless absolutely necessary" cloth. Still, there could be some nuance to explore there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 08:44 |
|
|
In the next season of Defenders, they should just tie Danny up in the first episode and just leave him there until the end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2017 05:41
|
|