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Feliday Melody posted:It's about the dogs.
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Sep 29, 2021 18:16
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F4rt5 posted:Heard about that hunting dog that was killed by reindeer drivers the other day? If you're unleashing your dog and allowing it run around whiel you're kilometers away in an area where animals are herded (or poo poo where there are people) you're basically asking for that dog to be shot. Of course the reactions to that event turned racist pretty quickly.
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Sep 29, 2021 18:18
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the norwegian wolf population is not, at its present population and current state of inbreeding, viable. at least not in the sense of being able to fill any actual ecological niche. the present compromise has all the negatives and basically no positives. e. of course, it's not really about the wolves themselves per se, it's about the principle of the thing, and in that context the compromise sort of makes sense V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 18:24
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TheRat posted:SP isn't left wing in any shape or form. They sit on the left wing of parliament. They join coalitions with the other parties of the left wing. Og i dagligtale så snakker man ofte om Sp som et parti på venstresiden. They're the centremost of the parties on the Norwegian left wing but I stand by summing up the probes-to-investigate-the-foundations-for-a-negotiation-about-forming-a-government as involving the "left wing parties", doubly so because I was making a dumb "inside you there are two wolves" joke. Like come on.
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Sep 29, 2021 20:55
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F4rt5 posted:Though there are not wolves where Iive, it's heavily forested with quite a lot of elk. Those are the animals you should be afraid of; I have several stories about family getting between mama elk and her young'uns. They nasty. I wouldn't worry about wolves. Where there is wolves there is also deer and stuff they can feed on. Yes, mama elk and boar are dangerous and we have many tens of thousands of elks and boars making nature a bit more risky. Mama elk and boar generally want to chase them kids away though, and not chase them down for dinner. So if I would live in the boonies I would still not be thrilled to have wolves as an added risk. lilljonas posted:Dogs not held on a leash are far and away more dangerous to kids than wolves, and to nobody's surprise, dog attacks have actually killed kids! Every year about TEN THOUSAND Swedes are bitten badly enough by dogs that they have to go to hospital (according to Myndigheten för samhällsskydd och beredskap). Meanwhile, a whopping zero kids are eaten by wolves every year. Despite this, nobody is calling for the extermination of all dogs. Yes, and we have like a million dogs in Sweden, most of them probably in densely populated areas in deliberate very close contact with humans. While the few hundreds or so wolves are in sparsely populated areas. So the statistics are not at all comparable and thus not really relevant. Also, if everyone would leash their dogs when they walk them that would be swell. Feliday Melody posted:It's about the dogs. But yes, a few livestock farmers aside, it's this which is the main complaint.
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Sep 29, 2021 22:12
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There are a bunch of polar bears in Norway and they attack or kill someone every few years but I haven't heard anyone saying we should exterminate all the polar bears. Maybe if the wolves were dyed white?
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Sep 30, 2021 00:20
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big scary monsters posted:There are a bunch of polar bears in Norway and they attack or kill someone every few years but I haven't heard anyone saying we should exterminate all the polar bears. Maybe if the wolves were dyed white? On the other hand, a lot of work is being done to exterminate said bears...
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Sep 30, 2021 06:31
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LatwPIAT posted:They sit on the left wing of parliament. They join coalitions with the other parties of the left wing. Og i dagligtale så snakker man ofte om Sp som et parti på venstresiden. They're the centremost of the parties on the Norwegian left wing. Well, you're wrong.
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Sep 30, 2021 07:22
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LatwPIAT posted:They sit on the left wing of parliament. They join coalitions with the other parties of the left wing. Og i dagligtale så snakker man ofte om Sp som et parti på venstresiden. They're the centremost of the parties on the Norwegian left wing but I stand by summing up the probes-to-investigate-the-foundations-for-a-negotiation-about-forming-a-government as involving the "left wing parties", doubly so because I was making a dumb "inside you there are two wolves" joke. Like come on. SP is in every practical aspect a conservative party. As illustrated by the government negotiations, now consisting of two conservative parties.
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Sep 30, 2021 07:30
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SP is a centrist party, but their values are relatively conservative and in any case they're clearly one of the bourgeois parties. Sure, they've been in a coalition government with the left wing once, but they've been in a coalition government with the right wing six times.
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Sep 30, 2021 07:43
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thotsky posted:Well, you're wrong. “anti-capitalist” or whatever is not the sole definition of “left wing”. In this case I’m talking about parliamentary leanings.
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Sep 30, 2021 13:11
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LatwPIAT posted:In this case I’m talking about parliamentary leanings. Oh, right, they tuck to the left, that must be what you mean. I figured we were talking about their ideology, allies, values, or politics.
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Sep 30, 2021 15:59
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thotsky posted:Oh, right, they tuck to the left, that must be what you mean. I figured we were talking about their ideology, allies, values, or politics. Of course not! They're a bunch of conservative agrarian protectionists who hate wolves as much as FrP hates Muslims, and the only concessions to socialist/social democratic politics is that they're more willing to be in government with SV than outright neoliberal big industry fetishists like Høyre.
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Sep 30, 2021 17:00
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LatwPIAT posted:Of course not! They're a bunch of conservative agrarian protectionists who hate wolves as much as FrP hates Muslims, and the only concessions to socialist/social democratic politics is that they're more willing to be in government with SV than outright neoliberal big industry fetishists like Høyre. https://www.nrk.no/norge/sp-ordforer_-kan-bli-samarbeid-med-frp-pa-stortinget-1.15671466
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Sep 30, 2021 17:14
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big scary monsters posted:There are a bunch of polar bears in Norway and they attack or kill someone every few years but I haven't heard anyone saying we should exterminate all the polar bears. Maybe if the wolves were dyed white? There's been six deaths by polar bears since 1971. You really have to put some effort in in order to get a polar bear to kill you.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:01
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The last time a wild wolf killed a human in Sweden was maybe sometime around 1750. I say "maybe" because some people went missing and it was just blamed on wolves and that was that.
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Sep 30, 2021 21:07
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also most polar bears live in svalbard, which afaik is generally recognised to be sort of their turf and you're an rear end in a top hat if you kill one unless you have a very good reason (such as running into one which has wandered into town looking for junk in the blizzard)
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Sep 30, 2021 23:55
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so if I'm understanding this correctly: V just coalesces with the right because they're full of melts with self-proclaimed strong ideological objections to social democracy, or some poo poo like that, whereas Sp is no further left than V but it coalesces with the left because it is less hostile to social democracy, especially if Ap and SV lets them cull the wolves
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Oct 1, 2021 00:51
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V is the straight up libertarian party. They're not centrists in any way shape or form.
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Oct 1, 2021 07:03
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Venomous posted:so if I'm understanding this correctly: V just coalesces with the right because they're full of melts with self-proclaimed strong ideological objections to social democracy, or some poo poo like that, whereas Sp is no further left than V but it coalesces with the left because it is less hostile to social democracy, especially if Ap and SV lets them cull the wolves a good chunk of V's voters are literally H voters who want more bang for their electoral buck. they're a right-wing liberal party. Sp is a basically conservative, regionalist party, so they're much less ideologically opposed to public sector stuff and state action to deal with issues and to redress wrongs etc
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Oct 1, 2021 07:21
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thotsky posted:V is the straight up libertarian party. They're not centrists in any way shape or form. Ah, whoops, I thought that was FrP. Anyway, thanks to both of you!
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Oct 1, 2021 07:55
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V. Illych L. posted:also most polar bears live in svalbard, which afaik is generally recognised to be sort of their turf and you're an rear end in a top hat if you kill one unless you have a very good reason (such as running into one which has wandered into town looking for junk in the blizzard) My mom went to Svalbard to do some research that involved talking to the fire department and they told here part of their job is sedating polar bears that get to close and then them dump them far away. But they really hate it because their fur is saturated with oils to keep warm and those fats go rancid and stink like hell
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Oct 1, 2021 08:14
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Polar bears, more like polar skunks
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Oct 1, 2021 08:19
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Hot takes on the terror of feminazis and the persecution of Real Men starting in 3.... 2... 1..
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Oct 1, 2021 09:39
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Feliday Melody posted:The last time a wild wolf killed a human in Sweden was maybe sometime around 1750. I say "maybe" because some people went missing and it was just blamed on wolves and that was that. Except the time a caretaker was killed by wolves at Kolmården in 2012. There was also the time when the wolves got loose in Skånes Djurpark and killed some animals before they were all put down. No human deaths, luckily. Wolves are top predators and act that way with respect to other predators and animals. I remember going on a safari tour in a Canadian wildlife park, where the wolves were kept separate from all other animals, because they would kill them. Meanwhile the black bears were fine to keep around. This is very much an issue of people from Stockholm being ignorant about things outside the city. Wasn't there like massive newspaper coverage the time when a wolf was seen close to Stockholm a couple years back? If a wolf started killing pets in Stockholm, it wouldn't take long for people to request extermination of the wolves in Sweden.
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Oct 1, 2021 09:41
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Cardiac posted:Except the time a caretaker was killed by wolves at Kolmården in 2012. That was because the zoo hosed up, not wolves who killed someone In the wild.
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Oct 1, 2021 10:43
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lol as if wolves are any threat to anyone compared to the actual dangerous feral hog menace
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Oct 1, 2021 11:26
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Yes AND hogs are *delicious* So. Clap a bunch of hogs, leave the pups alone.
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Oct 1, 2021 11:29
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Why is it so difficult to find hog-mince in stores 
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Oct 1, 2021 11:30
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How is it possible for either side of the argument to give a poo poo about a dozen inbred wolves? Is it just a amazingly successful psyop to prevent solidarity between rural and urban voters?
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Oct 1, 2021 11:40
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Potrzebie posted:Hot takes on the terror of feminazis and the persecution of Real Men starting in 3.... 2... 1.. And for everyone else, this is presumably referring to the police dropping the investigation against alt-lite politician and twitter troll Hanif Bali regarding alleged sexual harassment of a teenage party member
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Oct 1, 2021 12:00
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Hunters hate wolves because wolves eat their prey. Farmers hate wolves because even one stray pack dramatically changes how much you have to spend protecting your animals. These are wealthy and connected groups.
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Oct 1, 2021 12:00
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Crespolini posted:How is it possible for either side of the argument to give a poo poo about a dozen inbred wolves? Is it just a amazingly successful psyop to prevent solidarity between rural and urban voters? It's exactly that. Kill the wolves imo, we already extincted them and we either bring back a viable pop wholesale or clean up random strays from across the border that do nothing but cause damage to livestock.
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Oct 1, 2021 12:03
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Crespolini posted:How is it possible for either side of the argument to give a poo poo about a dozen inbred wolves? Is it just a amazingly successful psyop to prevent solidarity between rural and urban voters? Makes more sense. I think most of the anti wolf sentiment is really grounded in the fact that city people care about it and it's seen as front in that cultural war. Still even as someone who doesn't really care about this issue, I do remember last summer when they reported so many wolves moving through our area, like near our doorstep near and I thought about our cats and kids who like to play in the forest and walk the skiing path through the woods to the play grounds and so. Even though I knew statistically it's a super low risk, nearly non-existant really. But still I worried. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 12:11
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MiddleOne posted:Hunters hate wolves because wolves eat their prey. Farmers hate wolves because even one stray pack dramatically changes how much you have to spend protecting your animals. These are wealthy and connected groups. Though farmers are often technically wealthy due to fixed assets they are not necessarily rich as in high disposable income, because farming generally pays like poo poo.
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Oct 1, 2021 12:21
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Zudgemud posted:Though farmers are often technically wealthy due to fixed assets they are not necessarily rich as in high disposable income, because farming generally pays like poo poo. Asset-rich and income-poor is how tend to describe it to city-dwellers. They'd be multi-millionares if they sell (and many do), but pride and identity keeps many locked in some form self-subsidised farming and/or renting out their land until the next generation is faced with the same dilemma.
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Oct 1, 2021 12:23
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MiddleOne posted:Why is it so difficult to find hog-mince in stores Because hunting boar is BO(A)RING as gently caress and or leathal to the hunter's precious dogs. And expensive to sell since you have to let a lab test for Trichinella in every single animal. And people don't pay the premium it's worth to have tasty wild boar instead of broiler pig flesh. In southern France hunters are obigated to kill x nr of boars per year to keep their license to kill other game. That would probably do the trick.
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Oct 1, 2021 13:56
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Potrzebie posted:Because hunting boar is BO(A)RING as gently caress and or leathal to the hunter's precious dogs. And expensive to sell since you have to let a lab test for Trichinella in every single animal. And people don't pay the premium it's worth to have tasty wild boar instead of broiler pig flesh. Yeah it's not so much the danger as the cost of testing the hogs to see if they have dangerous worms in them and the slaughterhouse costs making it a pretty bad deal for hunters to even bother. I had a coworker who retired early and spent the first couple of months of retirement on just sitting on watch, 24/7, shooting boars. That man loved hunting and hated boars. Shot dozens upon dozens of them in just that short period, but I doubt any of them were turned into food.
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Oct 1, 2021 14:21
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Potrzebie posted:Because hunting boar is BO(A)RING as gently caress and or leathal to the hunter's precious dogs. And expensive to sell since you have to let a lab test for Trichinella in every single animal. And people don't pay the premium it's worth to have tasty wild boar instead of broiler pig flesh. lilljonas posted:Yeah it's not so much the danger Nowadays nobody bothers with it and just bags the boars they need at night using thermals. Hunting them during the day with a single dog is loving tricky and only the grognards bother with it (because they're the only ones with the patience/skill). ALSO, you'd better be a good loving shot because an injured boar will run til they drop dead, and you'll never find the loving thing. BUT they are delicious.
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Oct 1, 2021 14:56
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MiddleOne posted:Hunters hate wolves because wolves eat their prey. Partly yes, but more so because wolves also kill hunting dogs as wolves see them as competition (which isn't incorrect in that they help humans hunt elks etc.). Good hunting dogs are expensive to buy, raise and train and there's an emotional connection between them. And it just turns so that many forms of hunting become very difficult or impractical if you can't have dogs running after the prey and barking at it or fetching the dead animal. But I suspect that hunters shooting their own dogs is a much bigger problem, which could already be seen in classic simulation software Duck Hunt 
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Oct 1, 2021 15:09
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