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With the whole Jon Snow bit going on for a few pages I thought I'd weigh in with my own theory. Basically Rhaegar Targaryan was way into poetry and music and its mentioned in one of the books that one day he came down from the library and said something along the lines of "it seems I have to be a warrior". Rhaegar got his hands on some prophecy and decided that either he or his son would be the one to defeat the white walkers. He kidnapped Lyanna Stark because the saviour had to have the blood of the old men. He was remorseful about kidnapping and raping her, and Ned rescued the baby and pretended it was his own son so King Robert wouldn't murder it. A case could be made that Jon isn't a true Targaryan because he got burned by the torch, but the same is true of Dany's poo poo brother.
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May 26, 2012 18:18
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IRQ posted:She has literally always had someone protecting her, for various reasons. She has never had any agency. I've read plenty of fantasy where every character is "interesting" and it usually falls flat.
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May 26, 2012 20:33
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Demiurge4 posted:With the whole Jon Snow bit going on for a few pages I thought I'd weigh in with my own theory. Basically Rhaegar Targaryan was way into poetry and music and its mentioned in one of the books that one day he came down from the library and said something along the lines of "it seems I have to be a warrior". Rhaegar got his hands on some prophecy and decided that either he or his son would be the one to defeat the white walkers. He kidnapped Lyanna Stark because the saviour had to have the blood of the old men. He was remorseful about kidnapping and raping her, and Ned rescued the baby and pretended it was his own son so King Robert wouldn't murder it. Don't forget about Quentyn. 
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May 26, 2012 20:51
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Mulatto Butts posted:"Come, give daddy a kiss." Did he actually pull her onto his lap?
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May 26, 2012 21:17
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Demiurge4 posted:He kidnapped Lyanna Stark because the saviour had to have the blood of the old men. He was remorseful about kidnapping and raping her, and Ned rescued the baby and pretended it was his own son so King Robert wouldn't murder it. My inferences have been that he didn't actually kidnap or rape Lyanna; I got the impression she went willingly. Obviously there isn't a lot to base this off of, but one thing would be that Rhaegar named the place that he kept her "The Tower of Joy." That's not the offical name of the place, it's just what he called it. Now if we were talking about a Bolton, yeah, the "Tower of Joy" would be where you keep your kidnap/rape/torture victims, but for anyone else, it sounds more like the name you'd give to your secret love-nest. Especially when we consider that nobody other than Robert has claimed that Rhaegar was anything but a decent dude. And Robert isn't very reliable here, because he was in love with Lyanna, so he's obviously biased. Additionally, Ned didn't find out about the murdered Targ babies until he got back to King's Landing, which was after the Tower of Joy stuff. He was hiding Jon mostly because Lyanna asked him to, which we know because we have 80 million flashbacks to Lyanna asking him to make a promise. Trusty old Ned wouldn't break his promise even if the result was that all living Targs get a free lifetime supply of lemoncakes. If he were willing to divulge the truth to anyone, he could have told his wife, who wouldn't have killed Jon, probably wouldn't have told anyone, and would have actually been nicer to Jon for it. This doesn't disprove the first part of your theory, but I think the end part needs some reworking.
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May 26, 2012 21:32
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Mnemosyne posted:My inferences have been that he didn't actually kidnap or rape Lyanna; I got the impression she went willingly. Obviously there isn't a lot to base this off of, but one thing would be that Rhaegar named the place that he kept her "The Tower of Joy." That's not the offical name of the place, it's just what he called it. Now if we were talking about a Bolton, yeah, the "Tower of Joy" would be where you keep your kidnap/rape/torture victims, but for anyone else, it sounds more like the name you'd give to your secret love-nest. Especially when we consider that nobody other than Robert has claimed that Rhaegar was anything but a decent dude. And Robert isn't very reliable here, because he was in love with Lyanna, so he's obviously biased. It's true we don't know the exact nature of their relationship. But considering that Robert went to war over it because she was his betrothed you'd think that if she went willingly she would have told him.
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May 26, 2012 22:10
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Demiurge4 posted:It's true we don't know the exact nature of their relationship. But considering that Robert went to war over it because she was his betrothed you'd think that if she went willingly she would have told him. Robert's love for Lyanna does not appear to have been mutual. In specific Lyanna told Ned that Robert wouldn't stop whoring around once they were married. And the war didn't really start over Rhaegar running off with Lyanna, it started because Aerys executed Rickard and Brandon when they wet to find out about Rhaegar and Lyanna.
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May 26, 2012 22:14
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jeffersonlives posted:Robert's love for Lyanna does not appear to have been mutual. In specific Lyanna told Ned that Robert wouldn't stop whoring around once they were married. And the war didn't really start over Rhaegar running off with Lyanna, it started because Aerys executed Rickard and Brandon when they wet to find out about Rhaegar and Lyanna. Is there a good source for this information? I don't recall reading these specifics in the books. Has Martin released other writings?
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May 26, 2012 22:16
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Demiurge4 posted:Is there a good source for this information? I don't recall reading these specifics in the books. Has Martin released other writings? A Game of Thrones, page 379 posted:“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some young girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.” The Stark execution by fire stuff is all over, but I think the best telling of the story is by Jaime to Cat in A Clash of Kings.
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May 26, 2012 22:21
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jeffersonlives posted:The Stark execution by fire stuff is all over, but I think the best telling of the story is by Jaime to Cat in A Clash of Kings. Makes sense then, it's been years since I read the first books.
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May 26, 2012 22:51
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To be fair to Aerys, Brandon Stark did just roll straight into the Red Keep roaring for Rhaegar to come out and die. loving idiot.
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May 26, 2012 23:25
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whowhatwhere posted:Did he actually pull her onto his lap? He does at the end of AFFC when he gives her the genealogy lecture.
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May 27, 2012 00:37
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whowhatwhere posted:To be fair to Aerys, Brandon Stark did just roll straight into the Red Keep roaring for Rhaegar to come out and die. loving idiot. I wonder how the Starks managed to hold the north for 5000 years...
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May 27, 2012 01:05
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Waffle Ho posted:He does at the end of AFFC when he gives her the genealogy lecture. I think I'd blocked that bit out. Oh dear
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May 27, 2012 01:11
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El Hefe posted:I wonder how the Starks managed to hold the north for 5000 years...
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May 27, 2012 01:15
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whowhatwhere posted:To be fair to Aerys, Brandon Stark did just roll straight into the Red Keep roaring for Rhaegar to come out and die. loving idiot. Aerys was an even bigger idiot for having his whole evil supervillian torture/murder session of the lord and the heir of one of the great houses. If he didn't handle it that way then the rebellion might not have even happened.
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May 27, 2012 01:15
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Yes, but Aerys was insane. Brandon was not.
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May 27, 2012 01:19
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Junkenstein posted:Holy poo poo, so like, The National recorded The Rains of Castamere. Haven't seen anyone else reply to this, but I thought it was pretty good and also nice to know one of my favorite bands is, Devorum fucked around with this message at 01:23 on May 27, 2012 |
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May 27, 2012 01:19
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Devorum posted:Haven't seen anyone else reply to this, but I thought it was pretty good and also nice to know one of my favorite bands is, Between this and the song they did for Portal II, the National are building up some big nerd cred. People complained quite vehemently about their version of Rains in the TV IV thread, but I think it's rather nice. I hope they pick a slightly more upbeat artist for the Bear and the Maiden Fair, though.
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May 27, 2012 01:31
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Chinston Wurchill posted:Between this and the song they did for Portal II, the National are building up some big nerd cred. People complained quite vehemently about their version of Rains in the TV IV thread, but I think it's rather nice. I hope they pick a slightly more upbeat artist for the Bear and the Maiden Fair, though. I agree, "somber dirge" is something The National can pull off. Happy, poppy folk song? Don't think so.
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May 27, 2012 01:40
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It's not as if anyone could pull off a proper rendition of it sober, anyways.
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May 27, 2012 01:42
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You want upbeat and drinking song? Bear and the Maiden Fair, by Great Big Sea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wcjBU8zbdY
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May 27, 2012 01:53
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Chinston Wurchill posted:Between this and the song they did for Portal II, the National are building up some big nerd cred. People complained quite vehemently about their version of Rains in the TV IV thread, but I think it's rather nice. I hope they pick a slightly more upbeat artist for the Bear and the Maiden Fair, though. Eh, I wasn't a fan of it mainly because I figured an official version of the song should actually, y'know, be something that could appear in the show.
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May 27, 2012 02:02
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:You want upbeat and drinking song? Bear and the Maiden Fair, by Great Big Sea. Glad to see a band play the Bodhrán right.
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May 27, 2012 02:17
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whowhatwhere posted:Eh, I wasn't a fan of it mainly because I figured an official version of the song should actually, y'know, be something that could appear in the show. It's a little overproduced and too clearly a multitrack recording, but with some fine-tuning it could totally work. It's a decent cover, though the singer sounds way too bored.
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May 27, 2012 02:22
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I only listen to chillwave and stuff with greasy hood beats so I am thoroughly unimpressed Mah boy Nitgrit need ta get on thiz poo poo immediately
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May 27, 2012 02:29
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:You want upbeat and drinking song? Bear and the Maiden Fair, by Great Big Sea. They seem like a band that would be touring with Sister Hazel in 1997. EDIT: Not necessarily a bad thing....it just seems like they may have been involved in an unfortunate time travel accident during band practice and hurled forward in time 15 years or so. Devorum fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 27, 2012 |
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May 27, 2012 02:43
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If its not 80's hair metal it's not music.
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May 27, 2012 03:03
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Devorum posted:They seem like a band that would be touring with Sister Hazel in 1997. Wait that's a loving 10s band?! They seem straight out of 1994.
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May 27, 2012 03:08
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They are. Great Big Sea is a Canadian institution, and the singer has had that same haircut as long as I can remember.
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May 27, 2012 03:39
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Oh Canadians 
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May 27, 2012 04:10
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Demiurge4 posted:It's true we don't know the exact nature of their relationship. But considering that Robert went to war over it because she was his betrothed you'd think that if she went willingly she would have told him. There are a couple of reasons she wouldn't have told him. 1) She's a lady of a noble house and therefore has no actual say in who she's going to marry. Her marriage has already been arranged at this point. If she told him before she left, all that would happen is that someone would stop her and probably force her to marry Robert immediately so that she couldn't run off and dishonor their family. Even if she waits until after she's left, she probably doesn't really feel like she owes him anything, since it wasn't her own decision to marry him. 2) Every description we have of Lyanna talks about how she's basically headstrong, willful, adventurous and doesn't really behave like a proper lady. She's constantly being compared to Arya, and what does Arya do? Indulges herself in adventures first and thinks about the possible consequences later (or never). On top of having that type of personality, she's 16 at the time, which is generally an age when even very dutiful girls will run off with dudes they have crushes on. And if the "Lyanna is actually the Mystery Knight/Knight of the Laughing Tree" theories are right, then Lyanna is headstrong and wild enough to actually dress up like a dude and fight in a tournament, incognito, which is pretty hardcore behavior for a girl, especially a noble. As further support for her going willingly; Rhaegar has glorious anime hair that turns dudes gay. No way he has to resort to kidnapping chicks. Also, while looking for descriptions of Jon Connington fawning over Rhaegar, I accidentally found Barristan thinking "Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it." Barristan is a pretty trustworthy dude.
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May 27, 2012 05:03
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Huh, I assumed that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was just a crannogman, maybe Howland Reed specifically.
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May 27, 2012 05:11
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I wonder if Howland Reed warged into Lyanna when she and Rhaegar hosed?
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May 27, 2012 05:19
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Probably not, but then again the green dream of a dragon banging a wolf must've hosed him up bad.
The Unnamed One fucked around with this message at 06:19 on May 27, 2012 |
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May 27, 2012 05:42
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:They are. Great Big Sea is a Canadian institution, and the singer has had that same haircut as long as I can remember. Pfft, only good music from Canadia is Rush, Quo Vadis, and Augury.
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May 27, 2012 08:31
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IRQ posted:Pfft, only good music from Canadia is Rush, Quo Vadis, and Augury. That's not how you spell Celine Dion!
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May 27, 2012 08:50
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Didn't Drogon burn the poo poo out of Dany's hands when she's out with him on 'dragonstone' in the Dothraki sea? I'm sure I remember there being passages about how struggling to climb down from there because he hands where so burnt and blistered.
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May 27, 2012 12:07
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Midnight- posted:Didn't Drogon burn the poo poo out of Dany's hands when she's out with him on 'dragonstone' in the Dothraki sea? I'm sure I remember there being passages about how struggling to climb down from there because he hands where so burnt and blistered. She literally takes a full blast of Dragonfire to the face and just gets bald.
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May 27, 2012 12:12
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IRQ posted:Pfft, only good music from Canadia is Rush, Quo Vadis, and Augury. I have heard of precisely one of those bands.
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May 27, 2012 12:27
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