[Ukraine] I don't judge people who avoid the draft but I do feel offended

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] I don't judge people who avoid the draft but I do feel offended

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gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1791105609342783556

the night is darkest before the dawn

# ? May 17, 2024 04:51

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 05:18

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1791105609342783556

whoa, like whoa, man

# ? May 17, 2024 05:15

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Heorhiivka and Netailove are on the verge of being taken by the Russian Army on the Donetsk front. The AFU is holding on to a few houses on the west edge of both towns.

# ? May 17, 2024 05:17

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1791105609342783556

feels like we've been seeing tweets like this for awhile now

it's almost like Ukraine is losing or something

# ? May 17, 2024 05:26

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Officer Sandvich posted:

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1791105609342783556

ignoring recruitment for 2 years, because it would destabilize your right wing govt, and blaming everybody else ftw

# ? May 17, 2024 05:44

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Jimmeh

# ? May 17, 2024 05:47

platzapS: Aug 4, 2007

Freezer posted:

I don�t think this is correct.

Wouldn�t these trainers be considered an expeditionary force operating outside of NATO territory and thus not trigger any of the mutual defense clauses?

That also stuck out to me. It's possible the NYT author just wants to discourage intervention.

# ? May 17, 2024 05:59

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Either way, the US would know every vulnerability in the system, with a back door or not and that made it easy to disrupt. Also, it is known now how poor the performance of the F-114 was and how much few missions it actually flew, and it is relative horrendous bombing accuracy in this missions.

Also, most of Iraqi's batteries were facing either towards Iran or Israel and not only were they relatively out of position but they are going to be much easier to pick apart if there isn't any effective command and control or early warning.

This is coupled with the fact that the Iraqi army was completely out of position by being in Kuwait itself with other units defending the Iranian border, it is clear how and why the entire endeavor was so completely one-sided.

# ? May 17, 2024 07:40

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Freezer posted:

I don�t think this is correct.

Wouldn�t these trainers be considered an expeditionary force operating outside of NATO territory and thus not trigger any of the mutual defense clauses?

You anyway can't rules-lawyer the US into fighting a war for you. It doesn't matter what the paper says.

# ? May 17, 2024 07:54

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

Rules that protect but do not bind and rules that bind but do not protect. The usual

# ? May 17, 2024 07:59

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

The blame game begins!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/16/the-battle-for-kharkiv-will-decide-the-ukraine-war/

quote:

Ukraine�s Maginot Line is about to crumble

The lessons learned from Russia�s ambitious assault will have huge ramifications for the future trajectory of the conflict

They say one week is a long time in politics. Those same people have never been to war.

Six days ago, Ukrainian forces were just about hanging on across the near-1,000 kilometre front. Recent territorial losses to Russia � most notably the town of Avdiivka � in addition to recent delays in both US and EU military aid packages, had caused mounting concern for Ukraine�s fate in 2024.

Despite these recent battlefield set-backs, and delays in aid, it still felt as though Ukraine was buying time to rearm, reorganise, and redeploy an offensive counter-attack this summer.

That was six days ago, before up to 30,000 Russians � between two and three divisions worth � seemingly walked back across a previously hard-fought region of north-eastern Ukraine exactly 18 months ago, now swallowing up already thinly-spread Ukrainian reserve forces.

Indeed, Kyiv�s lightning counter-offensive of Kharkiv in September 2022, some six months after Ukraine�s second largest city was laid siege, was the Ukrainian Armed Forces most standout battlefield success, in a war of many Ukrainian victories already.

Lying only 40 kilometres from the Russian border, and incredibly vulnerable to a Russia counter-attack later on, Kharkiv was supposed to be heavily laced with improved forfeited defensive positions in the aftermath of Ukraine�s victory 18 months ago. But what was meant to be a series of bunkers, minefields and overlapping defensives created to deter a Russian offensive and deny Kharkiv to Russia definitively has seemingly transpired to be Ukraine�s French Maginot Line.

Built throughout the 1930s to deter a German invasion of France, the Maginot Line was an enormous series of defensive positions built along France�s eastern borders � most deeply of which alongside a heavily rearming Nazi Germany. The Line had four distinct but related strategic objectives: prevent a German surprise attack; deter a cross-border assault; cover the mobilisation of the French army; and to be used as a basis for a French counter-attack. Ultimately it failed in all of these.

Depressingly relatable to Kharkiv almost a century later, the lessons of European land warfare � and crucially, defence � seem to have gone unheeded, as Russians have within a week recaptured up to 100 square kilometres of Ukrainian territory which was meant to be heavily fortified.

Gaps in defences are always designed to be covered by overlapping positions, with defences in depth to create a broad and deep defensive line. 30,000 Russians is no gap in any defence. There are now serious questions as to whether a defence was even properly constructed.

If so, this is deep professional negligence of the highest order, and risks raising the ugly spectre of corruption within the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Having personally met with many wounded Ukrainian veterans, I profoundly hope that this is not the case.

The worry is of course that these problems could be replicated across the frontage, as already this moderate in scale but highly damaging Russian advance risks stretching Ukrainian reserve elements incredibly thinly, as Moscow seeks to press home its numerical advantage over the Ukrainian Armed Forces � one variable that Kyiv and its allies cannot overcome.

All the more how this is such an intensely distressing situation for the brave fighting men of Ukraine to find themselves in, especially after such a difficult year. Simply put � Ukraine cannot afford to make these incredibly elementary tactical and operational mistakes at this stage of the war. Kyiv must relearn the art of defence.

Robert Clark is a senior fellow at the think tank Civitas, where he writes on defence and security. He spent nine years undertaking active service, including tours of Iraq and Afghanistan

# ? May 17, 2024 08:06

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Also,

Article title: "Ukraine's Maginot line is about to crumble!"

Article body: "Ukraine forgot to build a Maginot line."

# ? May 17, 2024 08:09

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Btw, the estimates I heard for the Russian side are only about 4-5,000 soldiers, mostly light infantry, it is mostly a reconnaissance force. It is just how weak the Ukrainians are up there.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:13 on May 17, 2024

# ? May 17, 2024 08:10

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

lmao that the insanely successful Russian Surovikin line has to be memory holed so they can lament that trench warfare is obsolete

Also obligatory note that the Maginot Line was so formidable that the nazis decided to drive an armored assault through a loving forest rather than risk attacking through it

Ardennes posted:

Btw, the estimates I heard for the Russian side are only about 4-5,000 soldiers, mostly light infantry, it is mostly a reconnaissance force. It is just how weak the Ukrainians are up there.

According to Ukraine it was 50,000 soldiers when they started

# ? May 17, 2024 08:13

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Nix Panicus posted:

lmao that the insanely successful Russian Surovikin line has to be memory holed so they can lament that trench warfare is obsolete

Also obligatory note that the Maginot Line was so formidable that the nazis decided to drive an armored assault through a loving forest rather than risk attacking through it

According to Ukraine it was 50,000 soldiers when they started

To be fair, there are supposedly around 45,000-70,000 soldiers in that broader area, it is just the vast majority are sitting on the Russian side. But yeah, the Surovikin and Maginot lines were actually proper defensive constructions, while the defenses around Kharkov mostly seem fragmentary or very poorly built.

That said, the Russian's MO is pretty much to slow down their advance, even if it means the slightest resistance, and then blast it into oblivion.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:21 on May 17, 2024

# ? May 17, 2024 08:18

BrotherJayne: Nov 28, 2019

Weka posted:

also the red and white one

it's time to reinvent the dick string

Anything beyond this report of a single civilian being shot as they fled? Which of course has been the basis for reporting of multiple civilians killed.

>In particular, one of the inhabitants of Vovchansk tried to escape on foot, refused to obey the commands of the invaders - the Russians killed him.

loving cops, man

# ? May 17, 2024 08:41

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

Nix Panicus posted:

When does Zelensky's term end anyways? Isn't it next week sometime?

20th may, so in three days he�s fair game for a coup, withstanding the fact he�s probably done his best to politicise and elevate those not a threat to him across the armed forces anyway

# ? May 17, 2024 08:59

TowerofOil: May 22, 2007; You don't need a doctor, I'm a christian scientist.; Bread Liar

OctaMurk posted:

Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr.

good grief, not sending there best are they

# ? May 17, 2024 09:04

Mandoric: Mar 15, 2003

TowerofOil posted:

good grief, not sending there best are they

At least we can be sure they'll keep the football away from him.

# ? May 17, 2024 09:48

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Ardennes posted:

To be fair, there are supposedly around 45,000-70,000 soldiers in that broader area, it is just the vast majority are sitting on the Russian side. But yeah, the Surovikin and Maginot lines were actually proper defensive constructions, while the defenses around Kharkov mostly seem fragmentary or very poorly built.

That said, the Russian's MO is pretty much to slow down their advance, even if it means the slightest resistance, and then blast it into oblivion.

I wonder what they are waiting for before committing more from that group. Or if the next move will be into Sumy

# ? May 17, 2024 12:26

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

VoicesCanBe posted:

I wonder what they are waiting for before committing more from that group. Or if the next move will be into Sumy

They are probably waiting until Ukraine seriously starts committing beyond what it has. Basically, it seems the goal is to creep toward Kharkov until the Ukrainians panic and start stripping their lines elsewhere, then more options open up.

# ? May 17, 2024 12:54

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Jel Shaker posted:

20th may, so in three days he�s fair game for a coup, withstanding the fact he�s probably done his best to politicise and elevate those not a threat to him across the armed forces anyway

I'm curious to see how the next couple of weeks play out given that may 20th day, but I think Zelensky has done enough purging to stave off any real threats to his power

It's an interesting situation where Zelensky may have secured himself internally but the US, if they really felt the need, could have him removed with a few phone calls.

On that note, Zelensky fired his chief bodyguard after that alleged assassination attempt which increases the likelihood it was a real attempt, but he also maybe was just looking for a pretext to replace the guy

VoicesCanBe has issued a correction as of 13:05 on May 17, 2024

# ? May 17, 2024 13:00

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

can't RT a locked a account but Strana newspaper is citing sources saying that a man was shot by border guard trying to cross Zakarpatska oblast

# ? May 17, 2024 13:06

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

VoicesCanBe posted:

I'm curious to see how the next couple of weeks play out given that may 20th day, but I think Zelensky has done enough purging to stave off any real threats to his power

It's an interesting situation where Zelensky may have secured himself internally but the US, if they really felt the need, could have him removed with a few phone calls.

He serves at the leisure of the United States, he is situationally secure as long as American influence inside Ukraine is secure. That said, it may be that his mandate expiring causes broader legitimacy problems for not only for himself but the entire government since everything is now bound together.

# ? May 17, 2024 13:07

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

It's probably best to play it safe and advance carefully when you're at war with delusional, incompetent morons, because you never know what the gently caress they'll get it in their heads to do next.

# ? May 17, 2024 13:31

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ardennes posted:

He serves at the leisure of the United States, he is situationally secure as long as American influence inside Ukraine is secure. That said, it may be that his mandate expiring causes broader legitimacy problems for not only for himself but the entire government since everything is now bound together.

The other problem is if his power structure gets smaller because of the purge, it becomes easier to destabilize him with just a few targeted murders.

# ? May 17, 2024 13:39

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

VoicesCanBe posted:

I wonder what they are waiting for before committing more from that group. Or if the next move will be into Sumy

we know, and i'm sure the russians know, that ukraine is fighting a pr war and this here situation is undeniably bad pr

this means that big z and his buddies will have to do some big stunt to give their backers something to point to, and as such the russians would want to keep their reserves intact to exploit whatever half-baked scheme they know is coming

# ? May 17, 2024 13:52

CN CREW-VESSEL: Feb 1, 2024; 敌人磨刀我们也磨刀

Cerebral Bore posted:

we know, and i'm sure the russians know, that ukraine is fighting a pr war and this here situation is undeniably bad pr

this means that big z and his buddies will have to do some big stunt to give their backers something to point to, and as such the russians would want to keep their reserves intact to exploit whatever half-baked scheme they know is coming

Well, they're crowing about the airfield strike in Crimea that might've destroyed a MiG-31 and S-400 battery, I imagine the Black Sea Fleet and bridge are on the list as well.

# ? May 17, 2024 13:58

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

CN CREW-VESSEL posted:

Well, they're crowing about the airfield strike in Crimea that might've destroyed a MiG-31 and S-400 battery, I imagine the Black Sea Fleet and bridge are on the list as well.

They really hate that bridge lol. I wouldn't be surprised if they launch a poo poo ton of material to try and destroy it

# ? May 17, 2024 14:01

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://x.com/KyivPost/status/1791448501840175603

https://x.com/KyivPost/status/1791430086572249325

# ? May 17, 2024 14:10

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Any of the Euro freaks start rounding up refugees yet or is it still just talk

# ? May 17, 2024 14:18

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

fits my needs posted:

https://x.com/KyivPost/status/1791448501840175603

https://x.com/KyivPost/status/1791430086572249325

ukr can do this because it's actually democratic

# ? May 17, 2024 14:20

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Honest Thief posted:

ukr can do this because it's actually democratic

I can't believe how many elections they've been having and how free their political system is

# ? May 17, 2024 14:24

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

this poo poo is going from bad to worse at an increasingly fast pace, i'd bet nato boots on the ground before 2025 at this rate

# ? May 17, 2024 14:29

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Honest Thief posted:

this poo poo is going from bad to worse at an increasingly fast pace, i'd bet nato boots on the ground before 2025 at this rate

that thing about failing slowly then failing quickly

# ? May 17, 2024 14:29

Dokapon Findom: Dec 5, 2022; But have you considered whether the child murdered by the driver of that truck was riding an oversized bike?!?! Children riding oversized bikes are the scourge of our roadways!!

Nix Panicus posted:

Life is cheap in the Orient. The Russians are insensitive to losses due to innate stoicism

We jest but there are others elsewhere who literally just call the people "meat" as if they are less than human by virtue of being born on the other side of a border

Nationalism is a sickness but the Russophobia specific to this conflict shows how easily some people are able to channel the hate that lives in their heart, and lived there every day before February 2022. The truth is they could muster that feeling quite readily for any group they deem to be Outsiders :shrug:

# ? May 17, 2024 14:35

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

I remember how quickly things snowballed at the end in Afghanistan, once it became clear that a tipping point had been reached. Nobody wants to be the last guy defending a failed cause.

# ? May 17, 2024 14:36

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

I like the dichotomy of people believing the Russians having an unbelievable causalities and also it doesn�t seem average Russians care, and it hasn�t seemed to have created substantial effects on Russian society. It must be that Russians are all mind controlled thralls beyond reason, and also the Russians are simultaneously ultra-competent at hiding huge numbers of deaths but also completely incapable of warfare beyond human waves.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:27 on May 17, 2024

# ? May 17, 2024 14:45

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Honestly, at this point I'm just sort of bored by the glaring contradictions in western reporting and I despise the failkids who churn this nonsense out and I don't have a lot of time for the naive people who read it and believe it, either.

# ? May 17, 2024 14:53

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 05:18

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Yeah, I'm just a great big grumpster this afternoon.

# ? May 17, 2024 14:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] I don't judge people who avoid the draft but I do feel offended

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