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Paul MaudDib posted:They're breaking that off into a second Z390 release which will come next year (possibly alongside Ice Lake with 8-cores). what the loving gently caress? goddamn, intel get your poo poo together.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:24
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Give them 2 or 3 years. AMD is kicking their rear end right now.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:27
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VulgarandStupid posted:What's so great that you need TB3 on a consumer desktop board? Real question. I mean you're in in a MacBook/ultrabook situation where the ports are literally too big and you can just put a graphics card in, so EGPU hook up isn't needed. That pretty much leaves storage devices and phone chargers, which are both pretty acceptable for regular use with a regular USB on the other side. Start at 11:00 in... (sorry for the Linus video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NshXgisNly4&t=661s SamDabbers fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 00:36
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ufarn posted:This is pretty cool news outside the usual who-can-run-shootymans-the-fastest horserace: terminator.jpg
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Sep 26, 2017 04:09
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Paul MaudDib posted:They're breaking that off into a second Z390 release which will come next year (possibly alongside Ice Lake with 8-cores). Z390 is launching with the rest of the 300 series chipsets (intended for Cannon Lake, but Cannon Lake is never coming to the desktop), and the rest of the Coffee Lake CPUs earlyish next year. Z370 is a stop-gap chipset, although Z390 doesn't offer too much new at all. People were waiting for Coffee Lake for the core bump really, not the platform. Ice Lake is a long ways away.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:28
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Cygni posted:Z390 is launching with the rest of the 300 series chipsets (intended for Cannon Lake, but Cannon Lake is never coming to the desktop), and the rest of the Coffee Lake CPUs earlyish next year. Z370 is a stop-gap chipset, although Z390 doesn't offer too much new at all. People were waiting for Coffee Lake for the core bump really, not the platform. I agree and even when it lands, chances are that it won't clock anywhere near as high as CFL due to the immature 10nm process. Coffee Lake is going to be king of singlethread performance for quite a while now, possibly 2 years.
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Sep 26, 2017 06:54
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SamDabbers posted:Start at 11:00 in... (sorry for the Linus video) That's pretty awesome, but most of us don't have custom ventilated rooms for our custom rack mounted home PCs. Like I said, I don't see a ton of consumer desktop applications for TB3/USB-C, and most likely the motherboard manufacturers' don't either so they're foregoing the cost and keeping consumer's costs down.
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Sep 26, 2017 07:36
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VulgarandStupid posted:That's pretty awesome, but most of us don't have custom ventilated rooms for our custom rack mounted home PCs. Like I said, I don't see a ton of consumer desktop applications for TB3/USB-C, and most likely the motherboard manufacturers' don't either so they're foregoing the cost and keeping consumer's costs down. idk, i would love it if usb-c replaced almost every port. Need video? usb-c-. Flash drive? usb-c. power? usb-c for up to a certain wattage.
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Sep 26, 2017 08:21
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:idk, i would love it if usb-c replaced almost every port. Need video? usb-c-. Flash drive? usb-c. power? usb-c for up to a certain wattage. I'd love that too, but I suspect that internal wiring requirements would lead to all ports looking the same but working differently, which would piss most people off. You already get it a bit with thunderbolt-or-not type-c ports, and other USB ports with different power delivery capabilities. Symbology and colour coding aren't really good enough, especially when it's not always obeyed (looking at you, Dell).
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Sep 26, 2017 08:27
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:idk, i would love it if usb-c replaced almost every port. Need video? usb-c-. Flash drive? usb-c. power? usb-c for up to a certain wattage. If only finding suitable USB cables weren't such a nightmare: Had some troubles finding a cable capable of driving my 4K display via USB-C DP alternate mode (monitor input and computer output are USB-C).
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Sep 26, 2017 14:18
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To me it's a mystery why DisplayPort is used so commonly in space-constrained situations like rear I/O panels when mini-DP has existed for several years and does all the same things. I can imagine there being some marginal physical durability benefit to the full connector, but I've never seen the smaller one get damaged so it doesn't seem like a real concern. USB-C would be even better but does have the issue of needing to clearly identify when ports are full-function vs. data-only.
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Sep 26, 2017 14:29
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Eletriarnation posted:To me it's a mystery why DisplayPort is used so commonly in space-constrained situations like rear I/O panels when mini-DP has existed for several years and does all the same things. I can imagine there being some marginal physical durability benefit to the full connector, but I've never seen the smaller one get damaged so it doesn't seem like a real concern. "Grrrr this said it had dp but I DONT SEE DP DO YOU?!?!" Obviously the solution is to keep the layer of abstraction/hand-shaking it already has. One port on laptops can run video, data, power depending on whats hooked up already, they just need to tighten and enforce standards (like only allow retailers to sell usb-c stuff if they are properly certified, with severe penalties). Of course, the usb consortium needs to improve the video over usb-c, and build off of the dp it already has. If they need to add in things like 8k 120hz hdr or some poo poo like that, they can either update the drivers to split the data feed up between two or more cables, or stick it in usb 3.2, or both. Hell, things would be MUCH better if they were to have the display standards in software rather than hardware (the signalling), since if they abstract it to a usb 3.1 data stream over usb-c, that would be the only signalling they'd need.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:00
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Eletriarnation posted:To me it's a mystery why DisplayPort is used so commonly in space-constrained situations like rear I/O panels when mini-DP has existed for several years and does all the same things. I can imagine there being some marginal physical durability benefit to the full connector, but I've never seen the smaller one get damaged so it doesn't seem like a real concern. Are motherboard back panels space constrained? I don't really think so, most of them are half empty and maybe the higher end ones just get extra space filled in with USB. Plus, people would inevitably get upset by being forced to buy a mini-DP cable because they don't come with their monitors. Plus, somehow I bet a mini-DP jack is more expensive than full sized.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:03
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There's almost no justification for a full mini-tower for standard office machines and lots of places have moved over to some kind of SFF model because who needs a big box of air, and those have less space to work with on the MB headers, but you still get full size DP there for no reason. Only seem to get used on laptops.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:07
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Pretty big milestone happening in Coffee Lake. Here is the die shot: vs Kaby Lake:  Notice how the CPU cores went from nice cleanly laid out little blocks to squishy squiggly lines? Looks like Intel has finally moved from manual laydown of design in the processing cores to some level or degree of logic synthesis.
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Sep 26, 2017 22:19
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The computers are designing the computers, next step singularity
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Sep 26, 2017 22:38
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I made my friend buy a 7700k processor and when he got it we found out that it runs hot no matter what even with noctua cooler. I trusted you intel 
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Sep 26, 2017 22:53
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What is "hot"? Idle temps are probably going to be somewhere around 40c because its reducing fan speed to minimize noise. Assuming it isn't intended behavior, it sounds like the heatsink is mounted wrong.
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Sep 26, 2017 23:34
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:What is "hot"? Idle temps are probably going to be somewhere around 40c because its reducing fan speed to minimize noise. Assuming it isn't intended behavior, it sounds like the heatsink is mounted wrong. stock it gets to 90-100c in stress testing and 40 idle. had to turn off turbo. crazy spikes in temperature. cannot do anything since it was put together at the store or else it voids the warranty. cant even change thermal paste.
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Sep 26, 2017 23:44
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Prime95 or like gaming. Cause prime95 is not realistic.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:07
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Don Lapre posted:Prime95 or like gaming. Cause prime95 is not realistic. Prime95. Without turbo gaming is 70c.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:10
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Wasn't there some problems with the newer prime 95 and Intel chips creating unreasonable work loads that didn't simulate anything they'd ever do and pushing them to dangerous temperatures? I think the long and short was run a very old version of Prime 95.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:17
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VulgarandStupid posted:Wasn't there some problems with the newer prime 95 and Intel chips creating unreasonable work loads that didn't simulate anything they'd ever do and pushing them to dangerous temperatures? I think the long and short was run a very old version of Prime 95. I just downloaded Prime95 and tested my 4770k and got 90c. I never had it run so hot before so that could explain it. edit: maybe my standards for max safe temps are too strict.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:19
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VulgarandStupid posted:Wasn't there some problems with the newer prime 95 and Intel chips creating unreasonable work loads that didn't simulate anything they'd ever do and pushing them to dangerous temperatures? I think the long and short was run a very old version of Prime 95. Yes, it uses AVX acceleration and does an insane load rate that can put you into thermal shutdown real fast. You can't really get this kind of load from any real application other than an overly-tuned prime95. I think prime95 eventually released a patch version that disabled this acceleration.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:39
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Am I the only one who finds the i7-8700 not-K the most appealing? For lazy people who just want a hassle free rig, plug one into an inexpensive Asrock pro4 board and never look at a Bios or software with knobs and numbers again. (quickly enabling auto-XMP ofc) Of course the Intel fuckers left a blank space where a decently clocked i5-8500 should be 
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Sep 27, 2017 01:05
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sauer kraut posted:Am I the only one who finds the i7-8700 not-K the most appealing? I haven't bothered overclocking since the early '00s when I was still a poor dude.
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Sep 27, 2017 01:21
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I pretty much just pushed my 5820K as far as it would go on stock voltage (34x multiplier = 4.13 GHz) and left it.  Apart from games that are 100% single-threaded I've never really been unhappy enough with it to bother. My room is also pretty far from the furnace so it doesn't get a whole bunch of air-conditioning, so doubling my TDP was another strike against the idea. I'm not sure what to do about the games that are 100% single-threaded because they actually do make up a fair number of titles that I play. That's the biggest thing pushing me towards Coffee Lake tbh, otherwise my 5820K is still quite satisfactory. I've thought about just building a second rig for those (or buying someone's 7700K ITX system), but that's kind of a pain, and probably wouldn't work out quite as good as it seems on paper anyway. I'd need a second rig to be pretty small (mITX), which usually have lovely VRMs and don't overclock that well. To be honest an Asrock X299-ITX would be a pretty nifty little rig for single-threaded games, especially with the dual-core that Intel is rumored to be working on. Kaby Lake-X has crazy-rear end clocks (a decent chunk better than their LGA1151 cousins) and the 2-core might buy you a little extra legroom in terms of clocks. Realistically though I'm just going to sit pretty until a Coffee Lake-X comes out. It really has to be coming sooner or later, especially since Coffee Lake will literally boot up on a Z270 until it hits the very final stage, initializing the VGA, which the -X processors don't even use. At that point I'll probably rebuild with that Asrock mITX board and as tiny a case as I can make work. Maybe RVZ01 and a custom loop. At that point I'll probably just move my 5820K into a rack and let it live out a comfortable retirement encoding video. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 01:36
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Paul MaudDib posted:I pretty much just pushed my 5820K as far as it would go on stock voltage (34x multiplier = 4.13 GHz) and left it.
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Sep 27, 2017 01:40
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I used to run my 6700k at 4.6 but after a crash had to reset my bios. Set up the XMP profile, and never bothered getting all my voltages right again or overclocking again. Honestly haven't even noticed it one bit. It's just a gaming machine, though.
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Sep 27, 2017 01:43
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I enjoy tinkering with PCs so over clocking is another way I can do that. Even delidded the 6700k for a 20C temp drop under load!
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Sep 27, 2017 01:49
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Craptacular! posted:Man, I should try that. Instead I'm looking at buying a larger case and a larger AIO to OC Ivy for now and host my next build later. Whereas later is defined as, "when Zen2 comes out assuming I have money at that point". I'm trying real hard to cut down on computer junk, so I'm looking at smaller rather than larger. I'd really like to maybe have a RVZ01 or that new water-cooled DAN case that I can put on my desk as a primary system, and then either have a short+shallow half-height rack with a couple 2U/3U chassis for processing servers and a small portable Synology-sized NAS (U-NAS NSC-810a case). Realistically though, going to mATX size buys you so much more flexibility. With mITX you really have to plan everything out and heat/noise are a real concern. But if I set it up right, I think I can do a couple small systems instead of a bunch of big systems. What have you got at the moment? Since you say "larger AIO" - my suspicion is that you may be suffering from thermal paste issues at this point (assuming you're on Ivy and not Ivy-E) and what you really need is delidding/repasting. Reportedly those issues tend to get worse and worse over time as the paste seeps away from where it's supposed to be. I mean, it's not like your Ivy processor is under warranty anymore, right? Be careful but there's no reason not to do it at this point (apart from of course).Also, if you don't have your pump speed cranked all the way up be sure to do that - it made a 15-20C difference for me on a 4690K. If you like "boring black contemporary case" do be sure to check out the Thermaltake Suppressor series, they have a lot of radiator mounts and very good noise suppression. Lian Li also makes some pretty nice cases but they can get seriously spendy.
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Sep 27, 2017 01:54
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sauer kraut posted:Am I the only one who finds the i7-8700 not-K the most appealing? Yeah, i think its mighty tasty. It's launching at the same price the 7700 non-k launched ($303), and boosts to the exact same 4.3Ghz as the 8700K on all cores. Thats 300mhz higher than the 7700 non-k, with 2 more cores/4 threads, for the same 65w. Thats... good. If it an really hold that 4.3ghz all core with good cooling at 65w, thats a hell of a CPU. If you aren't planning on doing fairly significant overclocking, its a better deal than the 8700K to me.
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Sep 27, 2017 02:13
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Lian Lo hasn't innovated in at least a decade, their cases all still have a bunch of 120mm or often even smaller fans. You're paying through the nose for aluminium and minimalism. You can actually get really nice mITX cases now that are closer in size to compact mATX cases and allow for top notch cooling and quiet operation. Edit: whoops quoted the wrong person
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Sep 27, 2017 02:16
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id love to have a sff case that had only 3 connections-- power, network, and IO (USB-C) which ran video, audio, and USB data to a monitor which housed a 6-8 port usb hub and audio I/O
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Sep 27, 2017 02:17
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Overclocking also costs more on the motherboard and cooler side. I don't really care so I still get Ks and overclock, but I keep telling people who are price sensitive and also not interested in overclocking to get a non K and then like a week later "I bought a K". It's not like the Sandybridge era where there's over 1/3rd more performance to unlock, but the idea holds on strong.
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Sep 27, 2017 02:19
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Paul MaudDib posted:I'm trying real hard to cut down on computer junk, so I'm looking at smaller rather than larger. I haven't even tried to OC this chip, it's lived a long life at stock. But since I want a fancy glass case and a huge cooler for my next CPU and since Ivy heats up hard and fast, I might as well buy those parts now. As the chip is old I already know what is "too much" voltage wise so I plan to barely touch it and see if I can reach an intended goal. I'm waiting for EVGA to release their DG-7 case and, assuming it's got enough space for everything, I'll buy that along with their 280mm cooler. The Anidees AI Crystal is my backup case. I'm like the poster boy for Finance's "Bad With Money" thread in buying this stuff, but both case and cooler will make it to the next round of CPU/mobo/RAM so why not. quote:Also, if you don't have your pump speed cranked all the way up be sure to do that - it made a 15-20C difference for me on a 4690K. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 02:21
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Craptacular! posted:That's the other thing, and it's why I haven't bothered to OC. I bought all these components intending everything to run as quietly as possible. It's a high airflow case that has very little noise suppression, and was built to be as quiet as the HTPC that I was totally envious of in the days of my loud rattling dual-core rig. When I DO hear some annoying noise and open the panel and hear every corner, it's always the H80 fans having a particularly loud moment for no discernable reason. Take a Noctua NF-P12 and call me in the morning. Seriously I am using one on my GPU AIO and the fan is practically inaudible even next to my ear. With a thin 120mm radiator (H75) it's dissipating 218W at 60C. Some AIO coolers do have pump noise but the stock fans are usually pretty bad. Mine are horrific and I'm looking seriously at replacing them (3 years into my AIO). Also, if you haven't done it since you built, vacuum out any dust/pet hair, repaste, and replace the heatsink and you'll do a lot better. Frankly for a low-noise case you may be better off with a low-profile Noctua cooler too, AIOs are never going to be the quietest anyway. You can fix fan noise, you can't fix pump noise, and AIO pumps are usually not the quietest. Positive pressure builds are so good for pets. Just use all pressure fans on inputs, with dust screens. Even a fraction of a PSI is enough to keep the air pushing out of your case (through cracks/seams and maybe a single fan on top) and not pulling in unfiltered air. Probably not doable in a full mesh HAF case though. The new DAN case looks super super good, I had been feeling bad about not pulling the trigger on the second wave of SFX-A4 but the liquid cooling (2x120 = one for your CPU and one for your GPU) is going to make this one a lot closer to what I'd want out of a high-power micro build. You almost have to go liquid to get that much heat out of that small a package. note: I don't recommend keeping an AIO beyond its warranty, they will usually cover damages on other components if it wasn't something you obviously hosed up yourself (not an official rule but they do it on a case by case basis), as long as it's in warranty. Don't buy refurb AIOs, they don't come with much of a warranty. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 03:25
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Paul MaudDib posted:Take a Noctua NF-P12 and call me in the morning. Seriously I am using one on my GPU AIO and the fan is practically inaudible even next to my ear. With a thin 120mm radiator (H75) it's dissipating 218W at 60C. Noctua makes good, if slightly expensive, fans UNLESS you are looking for a 120mm fan where Noctua performs very badly and is usually the most expensive option. Their 140mm fans are competitive with the other good 140mm options. For a good 120mm fan the Corsair ML120s is currently king poo poo by a lot, and the GT/Vardars compete for second.
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Sep 27, 2017 03:34
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rage-saq posted:Noctua makes good, if slightly expensive, fans UNLESS you are looking for a 120mm fan where Noctua performs very badly and is usually the most expensive option. Their 140mm fans are competitive with the other good 140mm options. That's an NF-F12, which is an airflow-optimized fan (when you are trying to do traditional "cycle the air" designs). Those suck for radiators, so yeah, not surprising. You need the NF-P12, static pressure optimized model. Noctuas are pretty fantastic given the noise. The PWM model is louder but moves even more air, but that's kinda not Noctua's niche. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 03:39
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Cygni posted:Pretty big milestone happening in Coffee Lake. Here is the die shot:
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Sep 27, 2017 03:46
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