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beejay posted:Do either of you even know what you are talking about They are just conflating Personal Adjustment which has been in the game since forever with Performance Based Adjustment
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Dec 28, 2017 09:30
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The problem, as I see it, is that with PBA in place, the game can and often does talk out of both sides of its mouth. On the one hand, a player might win a very fast game and get MVP (or a relatively meaningful award on that screen), have high stats relative to others in the game - even get one one of those cheer thingies that tell you how well you did! - but then PBA tells you that, actually, you kinda sucked (or vice-versa). If we go back to Grubby's Gazlowe game, PBA tells him that he's playing about as well as expected for a Gazlowe at his rank on that map. Does anyone agree with that? Is it even possible to perform better as Gazlowe? The trend seems to be that fast games, win or lose, were depressing the adjustments unreasonably. One of the stated goals of the system is to move players to where they belong faster - if anything, a stomp so one-sided should be 'rewarded', so as to make these overwhelming victories less likely. At the very least, I feel it's vital that detailed reports are made available alongside PBA when it's reintroduced; something that tells the player where they did well, and where there's room to improve. In these fast, stat-depressing games, it should tell us the average expected numbers, and then we could compare them to data from HOTSlogs or whatever's hot right now. Without that, the system is very difficult to trust, and trust is everything.
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Dec 28, 2017 15:09
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Batigh posted:The problem, as I see it, is that with PBA in place, the game can and often does talk out of both sides of its mouth. On the one hand, a player might win a very fast game and get MVP (or a relatively meaningful award on that screen), have high stats relative to others in the game - even get one one of those cheer thingies that tell you how well you did! - but then PBA tells you that, actually, you kinda sucked (or vice-versa). Personal Adjustment != Performance Based Adjustment. PA is basically the game's way of trying to align your MMR with your HL rank. It's not directly related to the metrics that PBA measures.
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Dec 28, 2017 15:20
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The video is from when performance based adjustment was in the game. Even OW, which has been trying to make performance adjustment work for a year+ and has way more data with fewer characters has recently dropped it for diamond and above. The magic of ML. No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 15:25
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Golden Spacelord Leoric is amazing.
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Dec 28, 2017 15:30
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I laugh so hard every time someone uses ice block or something else to stop my Hunt to the point where my awful micro gets even worse. YOU ARE NOT PREPARE.. Oh, maybe you are.
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Dec 28, 2017 16:35
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Snacksmaniac posted:I laugh so hard every time someone uses ice block or something else to stop my Hunt to the point where my awful micro gets even worse. I just self-cast Garg.  Illidan, .
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Dec 28, 2017 16:45
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Snacksmaniac posted:I laugh so hard every time someone uses ice block or something else to stop my Hunt to the point where my awful micro gets even worse. I mine jumped away from an Illdian as Junkrat one game every single time he tried that on me and it was hilarious every time
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Dec 28, 2017 16:53
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They mean performance adjustment not PRA. And I wish it was in and worked, but it didn't seem to work very well. Although I definitely felt there were specific heroes that I could easily crush the performance statistics with that made for easy points.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:37
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Snacksmaniac posted:I laugh so hard every time someone uses ice block or something else to stop my Hunt to the point where my awful micro gets even worse. There's nothing quite like getting Hunted by an Illidan expecting an easy Nazeebo kill and watching him panic as I sit comfortably in my ice palace while he chokes and dies to toads and spiders. It brings a tear to my eye every time it happens.
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Dec 28, 2017 18:55
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MaliciousOnion posted:Personal Adjustment != Performance Based Adjustment. PA is basically the game's way of trying to align your MMR with your HL rank. It's not directly related to the metrics that PBA measures. The acronyms can get a bit complicated; I do mean Performance Adjustment, not the system that's been around for a while and is still in.
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Dec 28, 2017 20:35
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Whichever one is like 'oh you stomped those guys in 10 min you must not be good -5' is the bad one.
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Dec 28, 2017 20:39
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So if you are No. 1 gazlowe in the world and you play your best game ever, your personal adjustment would be zero because you are already at the top of your game? Just trying to understand how this works.
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Dec 28, 2017 21:01
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I could have sworn the personal adjustment is for when you're favored to win/lose. So like if your team has a higher overall MMR you get less points (that -5, for example), since you were more likely to win anyway, if only slightly. That way a team with maybe a little less skill overall might get a small boost from a win to reward their superior teamwork making up for a skill deficit.
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Dec 28, 2017 21:07
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Erdricks posted:So if you are No. 1 gazlowe in the world and you play your best game ever, your personal adjustment would be zero because you are already at the top of your game? There's plenty of stuff about performance based mmr, start here: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/21179036/introducing-performance-based-matchmaking-11-17-2017 Short answer - no, you would get points based on a "good" player in a winning game, so if you were the best player you'd get a lot of points. NeurosisHead posted:I could have sworn the personal adjustment is for when you're favored to win/lose. So like if your team has a higher overall MMR you get less points (that -5, for example), since you were more likely to win anyway, if only slightly. That way a team with maybe a little less skill overall might get a small boost from a win to reward their superior teamwork making up for a skill deficit. No. It is called "Personal rank adjustment" not "your team was favored or not rank adjustment"  As said previously, the point of personal rank adjustment (not performance based mmr) is to move your RANK to be more aligned with your MMR. So if you start winning a lot of games in a row, you get a positive adjustment to catch your rank up with your MMR which is moving. Likewise a negative adjustment if you are losing a lot of games.
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Dec 28, 2017 21:10
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ETC and Johanna are my two most played tanks in the last two months I would say, been real into both. I don’t know why anyone ever takes the leap ultimate on either one of them it makes absolutely no sense to me. Neither one of them ever has trouble engaging a fight and without their disabling ultimates they are extremely limited in what they can do to impact it. I played a game of Stukov today on Towers in HL and I slammed picked the single shove ultimate as soon as we both hit ten assuming I would have to break up a mosh pit and then I see the drop zone landing on absolutely nothing nearby me while ETC’s team gets aced on the way to us cruising to both 2x their kills and 20-0 on final objective points with their team never winning a single team fight. I just don’t get it. People who ever pick the leap ultimates on those tanks have you had good games on them? Why does anyone do it?
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Dec 29, 2017 01:41
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I take it on ETC if a global would be handy or if there's either not much follow-up to a mosh or some hard counter (like anub's just going to cocoon every time).
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Dec 29, 2017 01:49
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Libertine posted:I played a game of Stukov today on Towers in HL and I slammed picked the single shove ultimate as soon as we both hit ten assuming I would have to break up a mosh pit and then I see the drop zone landing on absolutely nothing nearby me while ETC’s team gets aced on the way to us cruising to both 2x their kills and 20-0 on final objective points with their team never winning a single team fight.
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Dec 29, 2017 01:53
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Falling Sword doesn't seem like an engagement ult to me, it seems more like something you use when the other team is trying to disengage and you want to keep them from doing so.
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Dec 29, 2017 01:58
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I feel like mosh is probably better in higher level leagues because people are more likely to actually capitalize on it
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Dec 29, 2017 02:04
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So I can't really ever seem to find a good reason to take Hanzo's actual Ultimate and settle on Ashe Arrow every game.
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Dec 29, 2017 02:04
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I feel like if doesn’t matter if the leap is handy because without the disruption ultimate neither characters are useful picks. You pick them for their ability to win team fights with hard engage and removing that advantage you would be much better just picking a bruiser who can extend range and scrap like Sonya or Artanis.
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Dec 29, 2017 02:21
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Seebach posted:So I can't really ever seem to find a good reason to take Hanzo's actual Ultimate and settle on Ashe Arrow every game.
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Dec 29, 2017 02:21
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ETC's W is just crazy. Yeah his health is lame compared to Muradin, Diablo, and Stitches but W + the range talent just does what you want all the time.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 02:33
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Libertine posted:I feel like if doesn’t matter if the leap is handy because without the disruption ultimate neither characters are useful picks. This is an insane statement at least with regards to ETC who is an incredibly useful tank even without Mosh Pit.
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Dec 29, 2017 02:42
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ETC is my waifu.
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Dec 29, 2017 02:43
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Toshimo posted:ETC is my waifu. "Welp, gotta retreat!"
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Dec 29, 2017 03:45
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Seebach posted:So I can't really ever seem to find a good reason to take Hanzo's actual Ultimate and settle on Ashe Arrow every game. It's really bad. Once in a blue moon somebody will get a multi-kill with it, but they would've contributed far more if they'd taken dragon arrow instead. Never ever take dragon strike.
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Dec 29, 2017 03:51
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The "scenic dragon ult" was undertuned on purpose to troll people coming from Overwatch
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Dec 29, 2017 03:57
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Some people take Stagedive at 10 and Death mosh on 20 to have "both" ults (sorta) on ETC
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Dec 29, 2017 04:54
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EdRush posted:Some people take Stagedive at 10 and Death mosh on 20 to have "both" ults (sorta) on ETC I could see doing this if I ever died on ETC
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Dec 29, 2017 05:02
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Newbie newb diary. Dear lord, playing Cho'gall is hilarious and fun. Cho - Of the four games it took to get to level 5, we won all four. This is the first time I've made it to level 5 in four games. One game lasted all the way to level 27 though. Typically it takes five to six games, depending on how long the games last and how much winning we do. At any rate I played Cho, and had a buddy playing Gall. Not ever having played him before, I felt like I was controlling some sort of monster. His sustain seems great, particularly after 16, and coordinating with a friend is really, really amusing. We had a lot of breaking into laughter. For abilities I was picking fuel for the flame, rollback, fire starter, hammer of twilight, runic feedback, surging dash, and C'thun's Gift/Will of Cho. His waveclear seems pretty amazing, and he can really bully around others in lane. That said, he certainly isn't invincible. In the game that lasted until 27, we did die a few times. Getting chain stunned-rooted and beaten upon can definitely bring the monster down. The deaths usually involved a dehaka tongue followed by a Jaina ult, further followed by plenty of focus fire. I also got a loot goblin mount today, so it was very amusing to see the huge Cho'gall riding around on that. Honestly, I really, really want to play him more. Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 05:09
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Filthy Monkey posted:Newbie newb diary. Dear lord, playing Cho'gall is hilarious and fun.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:13
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Honestly, I've never even played hero league. I am not sure I even own 14 heroes, though I imagine I am close now. Most of my leveling to 5 has been with the week's free heroes. My newbie newb adventure has all been quickmatch, and very rarely do I play alone. Typically I play with one to three friends, always using voice comms. I feel that HotS, like most games, is a lot more fun when enjoyed with friends. We will have to give a more dedicated Chogall support combo a try to see how it fares. So far we haven't really been carefully optimizing teamcomps. It has been more about leveling up heroes and playing what sounds interesting.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:25
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EdRush posted:Some people take Stagedive at 10 and Death mosh on 20 to have "both" ults (sorta) on ETC Blink on 20 gives mosh pit insane range, and gives you an extra escape, though.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:54
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I just got out of a Tracer match with a thoroughly unpleasant Malfurion who seemed to think he was an Assasin, focusing mostly on damage and healing himself at 90% rather than me sitting next to him at 20%. At one point he told me to "Suck Cocks" in Spanish after sniping a Valla kill with Moonfire. Beat him in every category but Healing and got MVP.
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Dec 29, 2017 07:08
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Filthy Monkey posted:I feel that HotS, like most games, is a lot more fun when enjoyed with friends. This is absolutely true. If you want to try something with draft in it that isn’t team league, try unranked draft with friends. Most of the people I play with don’t have the patience for it, but I find it more reliably gives quality matches.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:39
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The new brawl is awesome. It would be even more awesome if you could pick teams and it was balanced for slightly longer games.
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Dec 29, 2017 15:18
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Elysium posted:The new brawl is awesome. It would be even more awesome if you could pick teams and it was balanced for slightly longer games. I had a round of Jainas vs Jainas that ended in about 30 seconds. We didn't even get to see the gimmick.
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Dec 29, 2017 15:22
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Kinda late but ETC chat: mosh is great and I pick it most of the time, but Stage Dive is a great alternative ult. The situations where you pick it are niche (they have reliable counters/your team lacks reliable follow up/you're facing a poke comp that won't clump up/your team really needs a global presence/combination of the above) but it's really nice to have the option.
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Dec 29, 2017 16:10
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