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Al-Saqr posted:After listening to the latest episode of Dan Carlins hardcore history, I did some reading up on WW1, what kinda shocked me was that certain kooky concepts associated with hitler (lebensraum and mass colonization and population replacement) was actually developed and propagated during that time.
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Nov 10, 2013 00:04
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You fuckers need to post more, if we've got the new OP up we can finally squash the RACIST AMERICANS DROPPED THE H-BOMB ON THE JAPANESE INSTEAD OF THE GERMANS 'discussion'.
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Nov 10, 2013 04:39
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Koesj posted:You fuckers need to post more, if we've got the new OP up we can finally squash the RACIST AMERICANS DROPPED THE H-BOMB ON THE JAPANESE INSTEAD OF THE GERMANS 'discussion'. Clearly they deliberately delayed the Manhattan Project so they wouldn't have to drop the bomb on the Germans, the goddamn racists.
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Nov 10, 2013 05:04
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Farecoal posted:Clearly they deliberately delayed the Manhattan Project so they wouldn't have to drop the bomb on the Germans, the goddamn racists. Hitler's final act of racism was to lose the war before the Americans could finish the bomb.
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Nov 10, 2013 08:42
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Hitler's final act of racism was to lose the war before the Americans could finish the bomb. Are you implying Hitler was kind of a bad guy 
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Nov 10, 2013 10:21
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Literally worse than Hitler.
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Nov 10, 2013 10:43
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We can get the new OP up whenever everyone wants, 400 is just a satisfyingly round number.
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Nov 10, 2013 13:29
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HEGEL I didn't see any new commentary, is it done?
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Nov 10, 2013 16:26
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Are you referring to the resumption of fighting after Trotsky's hilarious no annexations peace conference went down in flames or the garrisoning of captured land after Brest-litovsk? The Garrisoning of captured land, it didn't make any sense, what was the point of holding on the brest-litovsk and the land around it if in the end you lost the more important part of the war and lost everything? quote:Read this: The Kaiser's Holocaust, yes its a whole book but is it not only written in a very accessible manner, but also covers a myriad of topics related to both colonialism and the world wars. Thanks! will look into it!
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Nov 10, 2013 16:44
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Given it's Remembrance Sunday I'm going to post the war diary entry for the last battle my Grandfather took part in. The fact that it's so clinically written just makes it more harrowing to think about what's being described. 1944-02-09 Regiment: 10th Royal Berkshire Location: CARROCETO, ITALY 0001: A Coy patrol occupies house: No enemy there. 0005: D Coy bring attacked DF's fired 0018: MMG's fire overhead on wood 0030: Bde Comd at Bn HQ. 1 Coy 1 Lon Scot to relieve B if poss. D Coy ask for 7 wounded to be collected. Own Arty short on D Coy 0126: D Coy heavily engaged to front. DF's fired 0125: R.E.'s report Minefield complete. 0127: D Coy report Enemy mainly on left front 0159: B Coy being attacked & driven out of house 895336 0210: B Coy report tanks at 905333 0213: D Coy report enemy patrol caught in area 2 PW's 0300: B Coy report tanks approaching from right 0315: B Coy being attacked. DF's fired. 0320: C.O. orders A Coy to retake house 895336 by 1st light 0326: B Coy report tanks moved away. 0430: C.O. asks for Tank Spt 0440: Bde say tanks will arrive in 15 Mins 0458: Mortar Def in house 888324 report enemy milling round house 0510: Enemy round house 888324 and 892329 (D Coys Rt & Left) 0520: Strong Enemy patrols moving round C Coy, 1 Lon Scot 892322 0520: House 888334 still in enemy hands. D Coy cannot retake 0530: Enemy patrol attacks 4.2 Mortar near Bn HQ 894316 0600: 2 Tanks now with D Coy sit. improved 0627: B Coy still ok but enemy tanks on right flank 0628: C.O. asks D Coy to send tanks to B 0638: B Coy have several wounded. Enemy tanks in FORK area 0648: Tank Comd at Bn HQ says tanks cannot go to B Coy 0652: B Coy report. Enemy Tanks 903335 DF RAZOR called 0704: B Coy see more tanks at 902338 (Own Tanks now withdrawn to 892330) 0733: Observe situation at D Coy. Apparently large numbers of inf. & Tanks coming out of wood from north. Own Amn pratically exhausted and 60% LMG's u/s D Coy still calling DF's 0755: Own Tanks at 892330 being engaged by AP from wood 0810: D Coy report enemy tanks at 876330. Observe Tanks approaching B Coy also infantry 0806: Last W/T conversation with B Coy. Tanks asked for to deal with situation Amn & men v. low 0812: Bde informed B Coy overrun 0816: D Coy observe Enemy Tanks and Inf. In B area. 0818: 3 Tanks move from B Coy West along Rd 1 is hit & wdws. Smoke screen laid & tanks proceed followed by infantry. 0829: D Coy report being heavily engaged by tanks and infantry. Enemy in area - heavy casualties. 0835: Major F.D. Jones MC reports all pls overrun. Last W/T conversation. The Bn consisted of Tac Bn HQ 2 Secs C Coy, some Mortar & Carrier Pl , a total of 40. 0835: C Coy 1 Lon Scoy still in posn. - General Lull. 0900: 18 PW's from D Coy at Bn HQ 0950: Rdr Of Bn moves in posn in Scrub 200y to East of old Bn HQ 1750: Bn to form Pl posn in house 891311 1800: Place 891311: Posn established 1805: C.O. returns from Bde. Bn to revert to Bde Reserve to cover wadi 886306. Force of 50 from B Ech personnel formed. 1900: Layout Bn HQ and 1 force 890301, Other force at 885306 covering wadi General reserve C/Atk role A quiet night
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Nov 10, 2013 18:03
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Alchenar posted:Given it's Remembrance Sunday I'm going to post the war diary entry for the last battle my Grandfather took part in. The fact that it's so clinically written just makes it more harrowing to think about what's being described. Improved for readability.
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Nov 10, 2013 18:09
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Al-Saqr posted:The Garrisoning of captured land, it didn't make any sense, what was the point of holding on the brest-litovsk and the land around it if in the end you lost the more important part of the war and lost everything? The allied blockade of the continent is pretty much why then. While mass starvation wasn't a thing until after the armistice, there were still critical shortages of food and other resources. Thus the newly owned areas of the Baltic, Poland, Belorussia and the Ukraine especially were to be exploited to support Germany in the war, much as hitler planned to do so. However they discovered, as hitler also was, that German occupied Ukraine was really hard to get food out of even when you're not shooting the peasants for being untermenschen. It's not until the end of the spring offensive that Ludendorff realizes just how in shambles the German army is but they still have the Hindenburg line as a back up, so why not continue trying to exploit Ukraine while holding out in the Hindenburg line, bleeding the allies there and forcing a peace. Unfortunately for the Kaiser the Hindenburg line turned out to not be the defensive position they hoped it was and the allies punched through it in the 100 days offensive. Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 18:10
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Koesj posted:HEGEL I didn't see any new commentary, is it done? I'm done--ask Rodrigo Diaz if he's done.
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Nov 10, 2013 18:14
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Was there a clearly identifiable mistake in the German plan for Verdun? Wrong place, wrong objective, didn't pull out in time, wrong tactics, bad generalship? What I've read about it tends to come down to a narration of what it was, how it turned out and maybe the controversy of whether Falkenhayn was covering his rear end by claiming it really was intended to be an attritional battle after the fact. What could have been done better?
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Nov 10, 2013 18:56
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a travelling HEGEL posted:I'm done--ask Rodrigo Diaz if he's done. I can post when its not a football day. There's still one or two things I want to add our rephrase
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Nov 10, 2013 19:49
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Honestly I think that the source of German defeat at Verdun wasn't really what they did wrong, more what the French did right. If they were a tiny bit less lucky and one reserve colonel did not circumvent the chain of command to tell HQ that he can hear the Kronprinz's troops moving around his positions at night, Verdun would probably fall within a week with barely any fight. Then Petain took over and turned out to be a lot better in managing his troops than Germans - he rotated them so frequently that out of 330 French infantry regiments 259 served at Verdun at some point between 1916 and 1917. As a result, the French were fairly well rested, supplied and generally in good shape, while their enemies rotated out of the battle far less frequently. It can also be argued that once the French defence solidified the Germans should have just cut their losses and stopped assaulting the heavily fortified region instead of drumming it up in the newspapers as an imminent triumph, but that seems to be so heavily par for the course for the entire Western Front in WWI that I can hardly hold it against them.
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Nov 10, 2013 19:56
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:I can post when its not a football day. There's still one or two things I want to add our rephrase
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Nov 10, 2013 20:00
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Was Ferdinand Foch the complete rear end in a top hat monster he's made out to be?
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Nov 10, 2013 20:10
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Tevery Best posted:Honestly I think that the source of German defeat at Verdun wasn't really what they did wrong, more what the French did right. If they were a tiny bit less lucky and one reserve colonel did not circumvent the chain of command to tell HQ that he can hear the Kronprinz's troops moving around his positions at night, Verdun would probably fall within a week with barely any fight. Then Petain took over and turned out to be a lot better in managing his troops than Germans - he rotated them so frequently that out of 330 French infantry regiments 259 served at Verdun at some point between 1916 and 1917. As a result, the French were fairly well rested, supplied and generally in good shape, while their enemies rotated out of the battle far less frequently. Also who the hell starts a major campaign in February of all months? That's just begging for general winter to come in and wreck your troops morale/logistics.
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Nov 10, 2013 20:19
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France in winter really isn't too bad. February is almost spring already, which gives you summer and autumn to exploit any gains you make.
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Nov 10, 2013 20:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:Was there a clearly identifiable mistake in the German plan for Verdun? Wrong place, wrong objective, didn't pull out in time, wrong tactics, bad generalship? I've always thought that the strategy at Verdun was one of the more brilliant and forward-thinking plans of WWI, in that it was arguably the first plan that realized fully what that conflict was and was not. I think that the major mistake by the Germans was underestimating French artillery, particularly their counter-fire. They had decent reasons for their intelligence estimates: French artillery performance throughout the war to that point had been pretty terrible. I'm honestly not sure what changed with regard to the French counter-fire tactics but that was pretty much the decisive thing in the battle if you want to choose one single element.
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Nov 10, 2013 20:33
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Fangz posted:France in winter really isn't too bad. February is almost spring already, which gives you summer and autumn to exploit any gains you make. True, but as winter gives way to spring it does tend to leave an unwelcome gift behind.
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Nov 10, 2013 20:34
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a travelling HEGEL posted:We can get the new OP up whenever everyone wants, 400 is just a satisfyingly round number. Yeah but 369! Get it? Get it?! a travelling HEGEL posted:Cool, let me check it over when you're done and then I think that'll be it, since there's nothing else I want to add. Anyone else? What's the thread title gonna be?
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Nov 10, 2013 21:22
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Farecoal posted:Yeah but 369! Get it? Get it?!  quote:What's the thread title gonna be?
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Nov 10, 2013 21:24
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What forum will you guys post it in? I would have said GBS before but um not now. D&D? I kind of feel like it should be out of this one for reasons I cannot explain.
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Nov 10, 2013 21:34
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a travelling HEGEL posted:
Military History Part 2: What if Wojtek nuked Germany with Tank Destroyers?
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Nov 10, 2013 21:43
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bewbies posted:What forum will you guys post it in? I would have said GBS before but um not now. D&D? I kind of feel like it should be out of this one for reasons I cannot explain. I think this one, since it's basically a continuation of this thread, just not 300-some pages long anymore and therefore off-putting to people who would otherwise post. I mean, I didn't want SilverSliver to get rid of this thread, but its length is apparently scaring off new people and I want as many people in here as possible  ing. D&D's full of sexists and Stalin apologists, anyway.
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Nov 10, 2013 21:45
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bewbies posted:What forum will you guys post it in? I would have said GBS before but um not now. D&D? I kind of feel like it should be out of this one for reasons I cannot explain. I would just keep it here. All I can imagine happening in D&D is talking about the atomic bombs ad nauseum. a travelling HEGEL posted:D&D's full of sexists and Stalin apologists, anyway. The American politics threads (like the GOP rebuilding one) are really fascinating, as is the politically-loaded maps one, unlike the who-loves-Stalin-more threads Ensign Expendable posted:Military History Part 2: What if Wojtek nuked Germany with Tank Destroyers? Military History Part 2: Please tell us more about how Germany could have won Farecoal fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Nov 10, 2013 |
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Nov 10, 2013 21:48
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bewbies posted:I would have said GBS before but um not now.  and it was quite well received.Farecoal posted:The American politics threads (like the GOP rebuilding one) are really fascinating, as is the politically-loaded maps one, unlike the who-loves-Stalin-more threads 
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Nov 10, 2013 21:55
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Farecoal posted:Military History Part 2: Please tell us more about how Germany could have won Unfortunately the OP will scare people off of posting that sort of stuff 
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Nov 10, 2013 21:59
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Posting it in D&D will just lead to more dudes like General China, take that as you will.
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Nov 10, 2013 22:05
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This thread gets a lot of readers and posters who would be run out of D&D. I wouldn't mind if it was put in SAL, since we are occasionally dipping into historiography, but I honestly think it is fine here. D&D would be endless discussions how America was the biggest war criminal and the British colonial empire was only slightly less bad than the holocaust.
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Nov 10, 2013 22:19
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Raskolnikov38 posted:True, but as winter gives way to spring it does tend to leave an unwelcome gift behind. Well Mud isn't always a bad thing depending on the era of military history, the Coalition armies at Waterloo we pretty drat thankful it rained the night before and decreased some of the lethality of Napoleons batteries. Of course, at the same time their own cannons decreased in usefulness. Oh. gently caress you Mud.
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Nov 10, 2013 22:30
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ArchangeI posted:I wouldn't mind if it was put in SAL, since we are occasionally dipping into historiography...
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Nov 10, 2013 22:40
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Military History Thread 2: Shut up about the loving bear
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Nov 10, 2013 23:05
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Military History Thread 2: I Am A Modern Major Model of a Goon Armchair General.
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Nov 10, 2013 23:09
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Military History Thread 2: Come For The World War 2 Chat, Stay For The Fashion Tips
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Nov 10, 2013 23:24
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Military History Thread 2: I'm beary disappointed with tank destroyers
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Nov 10, 2013 23:37
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Military History Thread 2: Tank Destroyer Apologists I support keeping it in A/T - if only because tracking it down in A/T exposed me to all the rest of the useful threads here. I owe my  to this subforum!
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Nov 10, 2013 23:44
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 03:30 |
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Military History Thread 2: Hitler's tank destroyers flanked Napoleon at Verdun Edit: Definitely A/T. I can't believe D&D was actually mentioned.
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Nov 10, 2013 23:54
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