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It's time to make Christmas presents, and I need plastic. I've got a 3mm filament feed into a J-head. I have the thing pretty well set up for ABS, but I hear PLA is much, much better. Where's the best place to get plastic? Either PLA or ABS. In any size, as long as it's quality. I got my ABS from 3dPrinterStuff.com and it's total rear end. Ranges from 3.17 to 2.87mm, plus full of inclusions and humidity. It is horrible stuff. Is going to 1.5mm as easy as swapping out the Teflon(r)(tm) insert?
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Nov 3, 2012 04:06
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Is going to 1.5mm as easy as swapping out the Teflon(r)(tm) insert? If you are using a J-Head from the original designer at hotends.com, they're not designed to be taken apart and swapped anymore. I can't say anything about clones though.
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Nov 3, 2012 04:10
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So it seems panda have pulled out of their kickstarter for "reasons"
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Nov 3, 2012 15:14
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Mephiston posted:So it seems panda have pulled out of their kickstarter for "reasons" Sounds pretty obvious to me: "gently caress you guys, we can make bank with these larger bulk orders!"
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Nov 3, 2012 15:32
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Obsurveyor posted:Sounds pretty obvious to me: "gently caress you guys, we can make bank with these larger bulk orders!" Dude, seriously? These are people I know in real life, who are passionate about trying to get inexpensive printers into people's hands. They're not a gang of scheming monsters under a bridge for pete's sake. 
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Nov 3, 2012 15:47
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It's just default goon cynicism. Probably best to take it with a grain of salt. You have to admit though, it does feel a little off that they'd pull out purely so they could find a manufacturer that could do high volumes while being right in the middle of a kickstarter. Ah well, here's hoping it works out, and they do indeed provide cheap 3d printers as promised.
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Nov 3, 2012 16:18
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techknight posted:Dude, seriously? These are people I know in real life, who are passionate about trying to get inexpensive printers into people's hands. They're not a gang of scheming monsters under a bridge for pete's sake. Yes, seriously. They clearly do not understand the point of Kickstarter if they "don’t want our Kickstarter backers, those who put their money on the line for us, to settle for a beta product so we can build a better product for all those who waited." If I had ponied up money for it, I'd feel like I just didn't matter to them anymore. They're, unknowingly or not, reinforcing the idea that Kickstarter is a store, which it's not.
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Nov 3, 2012 16:37
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Obsurveyor posted:Yes, seriously. They clearly do not understand the point of Kickstarter if they "don’t want our Kickstarter backers, those who put their money on the line for us, to settle for a beta product so we can build a better product for all those who waited." If I had ponied up money for it, I'd feel like I just didn't matter to them anymore. They're, unknowingly or not, reinforcing the idea that Kickstarter is a store, which it's not. They wanted to raise money to put out the best product possible, and having hit a tough speed bump in kickstarter pledges, they chose to go a different route that, if successful, should result in a better device. And the people who did want to back the project get coupons and a tshirt for their troubles. I don't see how one can be cynical about that, nor how that reinforces the notion that Kickstarter is a store.
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Nov 3, 2012 18:43
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Obsurveyor posted:Sounds pretty obvious to me: "gently caress you guys, we can make bank with these larger bulk orders!" Working at a start up, I can tell you that business customers are significantly easier to get started with from an infrastructure standpoint. These type of decisions make the difference between existing and not existing next year, not "making bank".
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Nov 3, 2012 23:01
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Obsurveyor posted:Sounds pretty obvious to me: "gently caress you guys, we can make bank with these larger bulk orders!" And that's obviously why they're giving anyone who pre-ordered a $200 coupon! To make more money. 
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Nov 4, 2012 00:23
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thexerox123 posted:And that's obviously why they're giving anyone who pre-ordered a $200 coupon! To make more money. Economy of scale explains why they can give away a $200 coupon to 45 people and still make more money.
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Nov 4, 2012 01:09
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Obsurveyor posted:Economy of scale explains why they can give away a $200 coupon to 45 people and still make more money. I don't doubt that they crunched the numbers and made sure that they could afford it, but my point was that they certainly weren't obliged to make those coupons $200 worth. Economy of scale could probably justify not giving them any coupons and still making more money even if they lost their patronage, but this was a gesture of customer care over profit, regardless of how canny a decision it was. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Nov 4, 2012 |
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Nov 4, 2012 01:14
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"Man, this calibration stuff is really hard." "For this fifteenth 5mm square, let's turn on 'Cooling' in Slic3r so that it'll slow down the print for small layers."  "Oh." I've still got some issues to deal with. Mainly the extruder. there's either a quality issue, some sort of retraction problem, a miscalculation for feeding/stretching the filament, or something else I haven't thought of:  You can probably see the zig-zag easier in the failed squares above this, but basically at about the halfway point on the walls, the filament narrows, making that diagonal line on the Z-axis. It's also tapering off too much as it ends each layer. *edit* Oh yeah, and it's missing the start of my 3-layer skirt! That must be a case of too much retraction, as it extrudes and retracts as part of the initialization process for prints. *edit2* It's normal for a Wade's Extruder stepper motor to get hot enough to be painful to touch, right? I tried a 100% infill cube just now, and it started out almost too filled, and ended too wispy and hollow. I'm thinking that the Z-axis might be scaled wrong in a subtle way, but it's not taller than these thin-walled squares, so it could also be the extruder petering out. Hmm. *edit3* Yup, heat issue. Either the stepper driver or the motor was overheating (I think it was the motor since the driver should have paused). After adjusting the pot, an underfilled scrawny test cube is now an overflowing test cube that needs a bit of tuning. The earlier problem got a tiny bit better after reducing retraction to 0.5mm, but it's still there. Locus fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 18:40
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Impact Damage posted:Haven't seen this pop up in the thread yet: I took my family down to disney world in october I'm fairly certain this is already in use on the newest little mermaid under the sea ride. they have an animatronic sebastian singing near the end of the ride specifically http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SjqpMOZ3b-M#! starts at 10:20 I though for a long time they made some convex oled displays, but this seems lime a much more elegant solution.
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Nov 9, 2012 02:01
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I just finished building a printer and put out an obligatory octopus. Are there other model repositories besides thingiverse?
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Nov 14, 2012 17:56
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Spazzle posted:I just finished building a printer and put out an obligatory octopus. Are there other model repositories besides thingiverse? There's GrabCAD, Ponoko (in addition to actual products there are free and paid laser/3d printing/etc designs), Shapeways downloads, Artec 3D scans, Google 3D warehouse
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Nov 14, 2012 21:10
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So, like most people, I've been surprised at how much filament costs, compared to raw plastic. For example, 2kg of Makerbot plastic is $110 shipped, but 1kg of raw ABS is $15 shipped. As some of you probably know, this has been identified by others as a problem too. Desktop Factory has put out an offer of $40,000+ prizes for anyone that comes up with a machine that converts pellets to filament. http://desktopfactory2012.istart.org Clearly, I am not alone in my desire to use ABS pellets! So, I set out to build a machine to convert these pellets to filament. Here's what I came up with:   Right now, I extrude at about 10 inches per minute, though that can be sped up. I'm kinda taking things easy for now and learning about it. The total power draw is about 40 watts, and at 10 inches/minute, with 1.75mm filament, I'm looking at about 24 hours to extrude 1kg. So, 1kg works out to about 1kwh of electricity, or 12 cents where I live. Not bad! I'm extruding at roughly 185degC. This is a little harder on the motor than a higher temperature, but it's all I can get to right now. I need a higher power heater, something more like 60 watts. I was concerned that the filament would not be consistent. I measured the first 4 feet at 6 inch intervals with a caliper. Here's what I found: code: I haven't tried printing with it yet, but I don't think it'd be a problem. What do you guys think? Open to feedback or comments! I'm pretty excited about this, can't wait to play with it some more! I'm thinking about selling kits or assembled extruders. Would anyone here be interested? greenman100 fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Nov 16, 2012 |
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Nov 16, 2012 08:28
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That's pretty awesome. You should link or resize that first picture though, as it breaks the tables. Have you tried extruding PLA? That has a lower melting point so it might be a better fit for the heater you have.
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Nov 16, 2012 13:53
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Obsurveyor posted:That's pretty awesome. You should link or resize that first picture though, as it breaks the tables. Fixed. Haven't tried PLA, it's a little harder to source. I can run the heater on 220 instead of 110, that will let me try new temps before buying a heater. Oh - the parts are $150-200, and there's no machining/welding required!
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Nov 16, 2012 16:27
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I've often wondered when it comes to these extruders- could you just re-purpose a meat grinder and sausage stuffer. They are generally cast iron or aluminium, but I would be worried about air bubbles, however none of the other designs I have seen have any special methodology to remove air bubbles besides the pressure build up. With that said PLA can be ordered from china for ~$35/kg shipped as long as your ordering in bulk, and they consider 10kg a bulk order.
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Nov 16, 2012 18:45
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greenman100 posted:So, like most people, I've been surprised at how much filament costs, compared to raw plastic. For example, 2kg of Makerbot plastic is $110 shipped, but 1kg of raw ABS is $15 shipped. As some of you probably know, this has been identified by others as a problem too. Desktop Factory has put out an offer of $40,000+ prizes for anyone that comes up with a machine that converts pellets to filament. You'd have a tough time beating these guys: http://filabot.com/
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Nov 17, 2012 02:12
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Cockmaster posted:You'd have a tough time beating these guys: I don't know about that, he might have a winner if he's really under $200. You have to have something under $250 and Filabot still looks like it's more than that without a lot of sales.
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Nov 17, 2012 02:15
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What's the deviation on diameter for the store purchased filament? +/-0.02mm doesn't sound like a lot, but I remember talk about the machines all needing a very exact diameter. Is 0.02 in the right ballpark?
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Nov 17, 2012 03:07
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Cockmaster posted:You'd have a tough time beating these guys: My design requires no machining/welding, and I could sell kits for $200 shipped.
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Nov 17, 2012 05:05
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Mister Sinewave posted:What's the deviation on diameter for the store purchased filament? +/-0.02mm doesn't sound like a lot, but I remember talk about the machines all needing a very exact diameter. Is 0.02 in the right ballpark? Typically +/- 0.05 is regarded as satisfactory. Also, please feel free to point out how the Filabot is better, and I'll try to incorporate it. I'm really not trying to make money off this, I'm a PhD student and don't have time to make this a full time job. Just trying to develop a relatively complete solution.
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Nov 17, 2012 05:08
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greenman100 posted:My design requires no machining/welding, and I could sell kits for $200 shipped. If you want a beta tester/guinea pig, I'd sign up for that price.
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Nov 17, 2012 05:12
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Obsurveyor posted:I don't know about that, he might have a winner if he's really under $200. You have to have something under $250 and Filabot still looks like it's more than that without a lot of sales. The $250 figure is based on the per-unit cost for 400 machines. greenman100 posted:Typically +/- 0.05 is regarded as satisfactory. For one, they'll be offering a model with a built-in grinder. So instead of just making filament out of plastic pellets, you have your own personal recycling center. And what would you do for a frame in your final design? You say your machine requires no machining or welding, but I'm pretty sure the Desktop Factory people (and potential customers) would expect something reasonably robust.
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Nov 17, 2012 14:01
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Cockmaster posted:The $250 figure is based on the per-unit cost for 400 machines. And right now I don't think the Filabot's price scales that well. They haven't released any prices so, of course, it's just speculation. quote:And what would you do for a frame in your final design? You say your machine requires no machining or welding, but I'm pretty sure the Desktop Factory people (and potential customers) would expect something reasonably robust. It just has to work. It doesn't say anything about it being "robust", they just have to be able to source the parts, build it and make it work. If greenman100's solution is "buy parts, assemble with bits of 2x4 and cardboard and tune with these instructions" then it's a competitor. I'm not sure why you're being so drat pessimistic about this either.
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Nov 17, 2012 15:10
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While we're on the topic, anyone happen to know the stats of recycling average ABS and PLA that's already been used in a 3D printer? I read some debate about that, which basically said that it gets heavily degraded with use to the point that it'll stop being structurally sound pretty quickly. Making your own filament out of factory-sourced stuff like pellets might be the main thing for these type of machines. greenman100, that thing looks pretty sweet, and I think you have an edge with your DIY/no welding angle.
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Nov 17, 2012 15:40
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greenman100 posted:So, like most people, I've been surprised at how much filament costs, compared to raw plastic. For example, 2kg of Makerbot plastic is $110 shipped, but 1kg of raw ABS is $15 shipped. As some of you probably know, this has been identified by others as a problem too. Desktop Factory has put out an offer of $40,000+ prizes for anyone that comes up with a machine that converts pellets to filament. This contest is laughably underspecced. It should have things like minimum extrusion rate and minimum operation time without interaction/maintainance. Take their money.
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Nov 17, 2012 19:06
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Spazzle posted:This contest is laughably underspecced. It should have things like minimum extrusion rate and minimum operation time without interaction/maintainance. Take their money. You'd think that, but no one has claimed the prize yet (and the contest has been running for a while)- so it may not be that insanely low. Ironically that this contest is still running is the reason why I have not tried making my own extruder yet- with all of those very brilliant people out there trying for this prize for it to have not been claimed yet means that I am missing something fundamental about how this is done. Or they just aren't trying, but who can be sure? My concept for one is so comparatively simple that it also concerns me that it hasn't been done, or has and no one reported on the terrible failure, (take a manual meat grinder, take off back handle, tie to motor, hook up sausage stuffer, hook up sausage stuffer to final extruder head, surround whole thing in heating element- go)
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Nov 17, 2012 19:58
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Linux Assassin posted:You'd think that, but no one has claimed the prize yet (and the contest has been running for a while)- so it may not be that insanely low. Some people think that it is because if you make one good enough to win the prize, you can make more money selling it than sharing how to build it.
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Nov 17, 2012 22:02
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Cockmaster posted:The $250 figure is based on the per-unit cost for 400 machines. There's no way Filabot hits $250 each with a grinder and manufacturing costs included. Their Filabot Wee barely clears $250 with bulk discounts and no grinder. I'm not sure a frame is needed. Obviously the final version wouldn't have any cardboard, but there are 3D printers made out of wood, for instance. You could definitely make a frame out of metal, I regard that as trivial. I'm not sure at this point that I'll be submitting to Desktop Factory.
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Nov 17, 2012 22:45
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Obsurveyor posted:If you want a beta tester/guinea pig, I'd sign up for that price. Shoot me an email - elmoret at gmail.
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Nov 17, 2012 22:46
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Locus posted:While we're on the topic, anyone happen to know the stats of recycling average ABS and PLA that's already been used in a 3D printer? I read some debate about that, which basically said that it gets heavily degraded with use to the point that it'll stop being structurally sound pretty quickly. Making your own filament out of factory-sourced stuff like pellets might be the main thing for these type of machines. I have also read that reheating and reextruding can damage plastics. I'm extruding at about 180C, keeping it low, not so much for concern of damaging the plastic, but because it gets tricky to keep straight at higher temperatures. Thanks for the vote of confidence! Spazzle posted:This contest is laughably underspecced. It should have things like minimum extrusion rate and minimum operation time without interaction/maintainance. Take their money. I agree that the published information is lacking, but I think they left it open ended to encourage innovation, and then they'll pick the best one they see. Unfortunately that means everyone waits around while it happens. Linux Assassin posted:You'd think that, but no one has claimed the prize yet (and the contest has been running for a while)- so it may not be that insanely low. The problem here is extruder drive efficiency. Right now, the auger clearance, that is, the clearance between the drive screw and the tube, is roughly 0.010". The drive screw runs at about 1RPM, so ~2 cc/minute of feed. However, only about 0.2cc/min comes out of the extruder. So, my extruder material slip is about 90%. Molten plastic is sliding past the auger, and solid pellets are sliding along the inside of the auger. I'm not sure which problem is worse. Anyway, the sausage stuffer thing makes this worse for two reasons. First, if you wrap the whole thing in heating element, then your feed system is dealing with molten plastic the whole time, which is sticky and slips through clearances. In my design, ~60% of the screw is below 40C, so it feeds hard plastic, instead of soft, sticky plastic. But, it certainly could work! You should give it a shot! Obsurveyor posted:Some people think that it is because if you make one good enough to win the prize, you can make more money selling it than sharing how to build it. I'm not sure many people have the ability to build enough of these to make more than $40k in profit. Even if you had a profit margin of $100/unit after overhead, you'd need to sell 400 of them. Not sure the market is there for that. Here's a print with the filament I made:  Printed at 0.3mm. Black is from Amazon, white is from my garage. Bad banding on both, thanks to my Solidoodle's z-axis being bent. I printed the black first, so there's some streaks of black in the white print. Enjoying all the comments, keep 'em coming! greenman100 fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 17, 2012 |
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Nov 17, 2012 23:00
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greenman100 posted:I agree that the published information is lacking, but I think they left it open ended to encourage innovation, and then they'll pick the best one they see. Unfortunately that means everyone waits around while it happens. But the website itself says quote:The competition will end when the first person sends in a valid solution. If the clock runs out before then we will likely extend the time frame. The decision will be based on what the state of the art solutions for 3D printers look like at that time.
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Nov 17, 2012 23:38
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Spazzle posted:But the website itself says Yeah I don't buy that. The Filabot Wee and a couple other solutions have been sent in that I know of, and the contest is "ongoing".
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Nov 17, 2012 23:57
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My boyfriend has had an early run Printrbot sitting in a box for a few months. He's started putting it together, and it's a perfect storm of poorly printed gears, missing parts, and baffling tutorials. I did improve things by telling him to flip his laptop upside down so that the build video wouldn't be mirrored to what he was trying to do. I need to email the guy that made these and tell him he cockblocked me with his lovely instructions...
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Nov 19, 2012 18:47
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Pile of Kittens posted:My boyfriend has had an early run Printrbot sitting in a box for a few months. He's started putting it together, and it's a perfect storm of poorly printed gears, missing parts, and baffling tutorials. I did improve things by telling him to flip his laptop upside down so that the build video wouldn't be mirrored to what he was trying to do. I need to email the guy that made these and tell him he cockblocked me with his lovely instructions... Ouch.. has he checked out the Printrbot Talk forums for help? One of our members at Toronto 3D Printers has a Printrbot LC, and has said in the past that it was very helpful to him.
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Nov 19, 2012 21:37
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What is the easiest way to learn a program like Z-Brush? I have a desire to make some customised parts for 28mm-35mm miniatures, but I have no idea how to approach learning Z-brush. Looking to learn enough so I can make arms/hands/weapons and maybe the occasional helmet or head. Another question is once such things have been designed, what is the best method of getting them printed out so I have the least amount of clean-up necessary? Is there companies out there that make versions now which require no sanding or filling? Resin rather than powder?
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Nov 20, 2012 14:12
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