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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Personally I find the too often argued take that the Silmarillion is written in the form of an unreliable and biased narrator pretty dumb and really just an unnecessary attempt to be contrarian. Yes it is accurate that it’s essentially the in-universe Elvish biblical account of creation and the early days of Arda but the difference between that and the real life Bible, and especially even older mythological tales, is that several of the key figures who took part in these events were still alive and well in the LoTR. Galadriel was only one generation removed from the first born Elves and grew up with them. And plenty more Elves, including those who were among the very first awoken, are still hanging around in Valinor with the lower case G gods who know first hand everything since before the universe was a thing. So they really do know first or second hand what happened in mythological times. Same, I've always enjoyed the more mythic parts of the Silmarillion, but quite literally people who spoke and knew Earendil are still in Middle Earth, so either he is actually Venus or Elrond has a giant memory problem. Also the untold number of elves that still remember a time before the sun and the moon, such as all of the Sindarin elves. I just eventually handwave it as Tolkien getting a bit to carried away a few times and letting poetic license take over. Having immortal characters inherently creates a problem if you want to evoke a mythic quality to it, unless you then do the subsequent layer of unreliable narrator and say that actually the Silmarillion is the account as told by Bilbo as well from his own memory of his time in Rivendell. And frankly that's unsatisfying as hell. I just shunt all of these things in the same place I put the idea that Middle Earth is actually our Earth just in 15000 BC or whatever.
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Aug 18, 2022 04:22
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670 pages of people discussing textual composition, layers of authorial intent, redaction, and stylistic elements. Tolkien the scholar is presumably cackling at us all from beyond the grave, rubbing his ink-stained hands together.
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Aug 18, 2022 04:37
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Data Graham posted:ok once a year starting ... now I’m just giving you poo poo, brother. Love your posts in all the threads.
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Aug 18, 2022 04:38
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I subscribe to the "biased Silmarillion author" interpretation just because it provides a very tidy solution to the dilemma of Orcs. Melkor didn't create them at all, Eru didn't create a whole people solely to be despised by the other Children, and they don't lack free will: rather, Orcishness is a spiritual condition which can be made to both proliferate under and reinforce oppressive social hierarchies, and Elves, whose grudges also can live forever, weren't exactly inclined to view them with sympathy.
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Aug 18, 2022 07:54
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Tree Bucket posted:Yeah, I think I see what you mean. Tom Bombadil isn't powerful because he's a level 300 arch-something with a +7 to BLT who takes half damage from AGV. He's just Tom Bombadil. he needed all those levels to survive being thrown down the toilet
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Aug 18, 2022 08:01
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Tree Bucket posted:Yeah, I think I see what you mean. Tom Bombadil isn't powerful because he's a level 300 arch-something with a +7 to BLT who takes half damage from AGV. He's just Tom Bombadil. Tom! Ol’ Tom, Tom Bombadlillo! was by far the worst omission from the OG Deities and Demigods D&D rulebook Armor class: 25 Hit Points: 10^*(10^100) Post his attacks and special abilities below. e: Once per turn, Ol’ Tom can point his finger at anyone, PC or NPC, and the character completely vanishes. This character is now the property of the DM, will never again be seen in the primary game world, and now lives on in a completely featureless, soundless, heatless void which is completely empty until Tom points his finger at another one (If using discord, recommend using Private Room #1) MrMojok fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 12:03
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What the gently caress is the Embracer Group and how did they just purchase all the rights to LoTR?
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Aug 18, 2022 12:28
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and before long, you too will be in its embrace
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Aug 18, 2022 12:31
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Tom! Ol’ Tom, Tom Bombadill-O! Roll a D8 and take a big chance-A-rill’o!
3-6: Player character becomes a beautiful, multi-colored butterfly, who flits around the party for the duration on the campaign, but has no ability to partake in or influence events 7-8: Player character becomes a reed, gently bending in the golden, flowing waters of the nearest stream, for all eternity OK, I promise I will stop now.
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Aug 18, 2022 12:57
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MrMojok posted:This character is now the property of the DM, will never again be seen in the primary game world, and now lives on in a completely featureless, soundless, heatless void which is completely empty until Tom points his finger at another one Still a kinder fate than listening to Jolly Tom's rhyme-a-dillo, merry dong.
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Aug 18, 2022 13:22
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quote:Toke-a-lid! Smoke-a-lid! Pop the mescalino!
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Aug 18, 2022 13:26
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What the gently caress is the Embracer Group and how did they just purchase all the rights to LoTR? Some Swedish video game producers by the look of things. They bought LOTR rights fron the Saul Zaentz Group?
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Aug 18, 2022 13:32
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OK, this was just plain mean. Reported.
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Aug 18, 2022 13:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's not the anachronism that bothers me about Sexy Shelob, it's that it just strikes me as crass commercial capitalism sexualizing literally anything vaguely female because sexy art sells more copies of the game than a non-sexualized spider would. Tolkien's Middle-Earth: A Non-Sexualized Spider Also if we're talking Bored of the Rings, it's sort of interesting that Shelob being Sauron's ex is something it and shadow of whatever have in common.
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Aug 18, 2022 13:58
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It was very strange reading this at like age 11. I thought it was just a bunch of Mad Magazine randomness
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Aug 18, 2022 14:15
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Data Graham posted:It was very strange reading this at like age 11. Yeah nobody would explain why "dildo" was a bad word Book ended up going to goodwill over my protests
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Aug 18, 2022 16:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EenEfXZ24JA Mini trailer about Numenor and the role it will play in the show. Looks like the conflicting ideals between the Faithful and the King's Men will be the focal point.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:35
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i'd get sick of the elves too if they all talked in that voice
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Aug 18, 2022 17:40
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I'm in agreement with whoever said that Elves should sound like Finns. Just a whole bunch of ethereal beautiful people who sound like the Hydraulic Press Channel guy. And here ve haf dis Dragön creaturr of Morgott. It is extremely dangerous and could attac at any time, so ve must deal vith it.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:08
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They should all have that accent and do it in a total monotone, like Kimi Raikkonen.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:12
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I don't like PJ's interpretation of elves or dwarves tbh. Dwarves with the dumb laddie scottish poo poo and then elves sounding like they're on valium all the time. I never got the sense reading the books that elves sounded like that. They're not just stoic robots. Before anyone says I'm overly negative I do think PJ generally did a good job with men/hobbits, with a few small exceptions like Denethor being way off and Faramir beating the poo poo out of Gollum for some reason.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What the gently caress is the Embracer Group and how did they just purchase all the rights to LoTR? Embracer group owns THQ Nordic, Gearbox, Coffee Stain, and Asmodee among others. Really want to see a Coffee Stain LOTR game Also, I didn't really like making Shelob sexy, but it wasn't completely indefensible. Shelob and Ungoliant are only ever described as "in the shape of a spider" and they're not mundane mortal creatures so we don't know what powers they have Also Shelob was super creepy in game because I KNOW she's a giant spider, I do NOT want her getting close to me and acting all sexy, that's terrifying. So there's that, it definitely added something. A Moose fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 18:18
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't like PJ's interpretation of elves or dwarves tbh. Dwarves with the dumb laddie scottish poo poo and then elves sounding like they're on valium all the time. I never got the sense reading the books that elves sounded like that. They're not just stoic robots. I think they had the word "ethereal" taped up on the wall or something, because they stuck with that one note. Hell, one of the only bright spots of the Hobbit movies was the portrayal of the elves. Lee Pace is one of the only truly interesting and good parts of the movies, and showing the elves getting drunk and just being the petty bitches they are was nice.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:19
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't like PJ's interpretation of elves or dwarves tbh. Dwarves with the dumb laddie scottish poo poo and then elves sounding like they're on valium all the time. I never got the sense reading the books that elves sounded like that. They're not just stoic robots. the dwarves in the hobbit trilogy were actually better than in the lotr movies because they actually sounded like they might be people
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Aug 18, 2022 19:06
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm in agreement with whoever said that Elves should sound like Finns. Just a whole bunch of ethereal beautiful people who sound like the Hydraulic Press Channel guy. Replying to say I appreciate this.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:25
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm in agreement with whoever said that Elves should sound like Finns. Just a whole bunch of ethereal beautiful people who sound like the Hydraulic Press Channel guy. This has been my take for a while now, welcome! The animated Hobbit movie did this a little with Thranduil and I thought it worked, although visually he looked goofy as hell.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:32
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Pham Nuwen posted:The animated Hobbit movie did this a little with Thranduil He’s just Austrian
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Aug 18, 2022 19:40
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One day we will get a Tolkien adaptation with the moral courage to recognise that tril-lil-lil-lolly, the valley is jolly
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Aug 18, 2022 19:58
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Gotta say, not a fan of the Numenor teaser.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:11
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Trin Tragula posted:One day we will get a Tolkien adaptation with the moral courage to recognise that tril-lil-lil-lolly, the valley is jolly I'm reading The Hobbit to my kids for the first time, and my wife (who has zero knowledge of Tolkien outside the PJ LotR movies) has been sitting and listening with us. She's quite enjoyed it, more than even the kids. But when they first meet the Elves in Rivendell her reaction was a solid  . PJ may have poisoned that well too badly.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:11
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm in agreement with whoever said that Elves should sound like Finns. Just a whole bunch of ethereal beautiful people who sound like the Hydraulic Press Channel guy. Hilarious was when I looked him up again for fresh reference and in the first video I turned up he was wearing an Amon Amarth t-shirt.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:13
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Judgy Fucker posted:I'm reading The Hobbit to my kids for the first time, and my wife (who has zero knowledge of Tolkien outside the PJ LotR movies) has been sitting and listening with us. She's quite enjoyed it, more than even the kids. I read it to my wife over the course of a few months. She enjoyed it, I enjoyed reading it to her, but I couldn't bring myself to sing the songs--I wasn't ready to tackle them without music, and I didn't feel like reading them out as pure poetry either. Except for the "Fifteen birds" song, that one rules and I definitely sang it like in the cartoon.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:29
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Pham Nuwen posted:I read it to my wife over the course of a few months. She enjoyed it, I enjoyed reading it to her, but I couldn't bring myself to sing the songs--I wasn't ready to tackle them without music, and I didn't feel like reading them out as pure poetry either. Except for the "Fifteen birds" song, that one rules and I definitely sang it like in the cartoon. It's not the songs in general, just the elves were not at all like her preconceived notions of them. "Why are the Elves so jolly and whimsical?" *Thinking hard how to answer this concisely* "They just are." I haven't skipped any of the songs even though I know I'm butchering the meter of most of them.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:39
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Wasn’t Shelobs appearance not actually “real” but a projection of what the main character probably wanted to see (and also the player in a meta commentary )
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Aug 18, 2022 20:45
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All LOTR songs should be sung to the tune of Pop Goes the Weasel
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Aug 18, 2022 20:46
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euphronius posted:Wasn’t Shelobs appearance not actually “real” but a projection of what the main character probably wanted to see (and also the player in a meta commentary ) I always assumed she must have some way to communicate directly with mortals or Gollum wouldn't have been able to make a deal with her and she wouldn't give a poo poo about his 'worship'. It's implied that she can read his mind, in that he maintained his secret little plan to get his revenge on her after she tossed away the Ring but hoped to conceal it from her. Also isn't she given actual dialogue read by a woman in the BBC Radio adaptation?
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Aug 18, 2022 20:56
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No I meant just in the dumb game
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Aug 18, 2022 21:09
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euphronius posted:No I meant just in the dumb game its not explicitly in his head. In the game, they posit that she is a Maia essentially by treating Ungoliant as either another Valar or a similar being that chose to manifest as a giant spider. That is not entirely off base as Melkor was able to converse and make a deal with her. As a Maia, she is able to shapeshift, and appeared in human form with Sauron, becoming his lover in the second age. When Ar-Pharazon invaded, he abandons her. This leads to her being scorned. Initially she manipulates Talion into giving her the new ring he and Celebrimbor made. After the Nine attack her, she gives it back, hoping Talion will succeed in killing Sauron and then mostly is out of the game. And i'll maintain that she is not sexualized in some kind of cheap way. she is a woman in a black dress. There is literally nothing in the game that treats her as a sexual object.  if you think this is sexualization, that's on you. The game whips rear end and orc pokemons is the best version
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Aug 18, 2022 22:29
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WoodrowSkillson posted:its not explicitly in his head. In the game, they posit that she is a Maia essentially by treating Ungoliant as either another Valar or a similar being that chose to manifest as a giant spider. That is not entirely off base as Melkor was able to converse and make a deal with her. She's a giant spider, and they made her a hot lady. No they weren't strutting her around in nipple pasties and a thong, but if you can't see why taking that character and anthropomorphicising her as a hot lady seems a little pandering, I don't know what to say. The actual execution didn't end up being terrible, it isn't some horribly sexist thing they did, but it does rub people the wrong way a bit.
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Aug 18, 2022 22:38
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It’s the bare shoulders and strong lipstick probably (I don’t agree with they just probably the issue ) Looks like an elf .
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Aug 18, 2022 22:40
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