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Crackbone posted:Also, marginal utility of a dollar, motherfucker.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:59
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ZobarStyl posted:I find myself saying this verbatim a lot lately, because any argument about taxes and 'fairness' will likely boil down to a person either understanding or failing to understand this concept. I heard a really good easy to use explanation of this by Jimmy Dore, though he didn't even know what he was talking about. "I was at dinner with these two really powerful network executives, and the first one went "Man, if I had your money, I'd be doing all sorts of poo poo". The second put down his wine and said "I make 8 million a year and you make 5, what the gently caress can I buy that you can't?"
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Aug 14, 2012 23:03
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mugrim posted:I heard a really good easy to use explanation of this by Jimmy Dore, though he didn't even know what he was talking about. ...an 8 million dollar plane?
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Aug 14, 2012 23:54
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My econ 101 professor used winter and clothing as a pretty good example of how marginal utility works: Say you're standing outside naked in the middle of winter. Now, someone comes up and offers you a jacket. Man, how nice will that jacket be! You are no longer 'that naked guy freezing outside,' you're 'that half-naked guy freezing outside.' Someone else comes along, sees your shrivelled dick, and takes pity, offering you pants. Hell, you're doing good now aren't you? This continues on with other articles of clothing: socks, shoes, undershirt, underwear, gloves, hat, earmuffs, scarf, etc. Now, to tie this in with marginal utility. How happy would you be to get that jacket, the first item to release you from your nakedness? How happy from the pants? What about the 10th item you were given? What if someone gives you another jacket? This is just a basic example to demonstrate the idea of course. Not all articles of clothing are equal, unlike dollars.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:46
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Goatman Sacks posted:...an 8 million dollar plane? They both can afford an 8 million dollar plane, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:46
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My wife, Ms. Doctor, has a friend from middle school who posted a moderately terrible conservative opinion on facebook. What transpired... hoo boy.   She's green. I think she did pretty well considering she was phoneposting, doesn't read this thread, and I was feeding her what info I could over GChat based on what she told me was happening. Just... drat...
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Aug 15, 2012 00:52
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Nth Doctor posted:My wife, Ms. Doctor, has a friend from middle school who posted a moderately terrible conservative opinion on facebook. What transpired... hoo boy. People on welfare rent limos? The hell? This isn't just average sorta conservative uninformed idiocy. It's blatant "I eat Limbaughs poo poo... fresh from the rumblin' oven!".
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Aug 15, 2012 01:07
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I know a few people on welfare... They are too busy trying to eat to rent limos. Idiot loving people.
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Aug 15, 2012 01:12
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Nth Doctor posted:My wife, Ms. Doctor, has a friend from middle school who posted a moderately terrible conservative opinion on facebook. What transpired... hoo boy. some stupid bitch on Facebook posted:I'm not forcing you to believe anything. THis is how I feel. Like or hate it. I can't tell you how angry reading something like that makes me. "The facts which I base my entire viewpoint off of are completely wrong but that's my opinion so deal with it" Goddamn it, how can loving people really think like that? Also I love how Red says "good that [drug testing on welfare recipients] should be instituted nationwide" when green tells her that 97.3% of the people tested passed. That means you are spending more money than you are saving, you loving terrible person 
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Aug 15, 2012 01:28
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Sporadic posted:I can't tell you how angry reading something like that makes me. "The facts which I base my entire viewpoint off of are completely wrong but that's my opinion so deal with it" Goddamn it, how can loving people really think like that? Hell, I'm a welfare recipient in Denmark, one of those EVIL SOCIALIST COMMIE countries. And, yes, I'm taken care of quite well. I get my medicine cheap (that's not part of welfare, that's a different thing where the pharmacist has to tell you if there are alternatives to your prescribed meds that are actually the same but has a different name. In other words, that the original patent expired and other firms have made them cheaper). I get a sum every month. Enough to live on. But here's the thing: It sure as poo poo ain't opulent, and yeah, I guess I COULD rent a limo, but I'd have to use all my money to do it. And then I'd starve to death. And the U.S is far, FAR less into caring for the less fortunate. How do so many americans believe in such toxic bullshit? I mean, I know the usual answers. What I don't get his how they KEEP believing this poo poo when someone in their family is suffering. "Well, sorry, kiddo, seems like we hafta sacrifica ya to the invisible hand! Can't have no gubmint reg'laters get on ahr propertie!".
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Aug 15, 2012 01:47
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HMDK posted:What I don't get his how they KEEP believing this poo poo when someone in their family is suffering. "Well, sorry, kiddo, seems like we hafta sacrifica ya to the invisible hand! Can't have no gubmint reg'laters get on ahr propertie!". This is what gets me. My sister works two dead-end near-minimum wage jobs (probably about 50 hours a week total), but refuses to seek government aid that she'd definitely qualify for because my mother has endowed both her and I with the idea that getting help is "cheating" and only immoral sloth-people do it. I've been fortunate enough to shake that off in the past few years, but my sister isn't a particularly politically-savvy person and just accepts what she was raised to believe, so here she is, suffering and working her rear end off because my mom happened to be an extremely successful business woman (which I give her credit for, certainly, but it's not really a rags to riches story, her family was always middle class growing up). And yet neither her nor my mother see any issue with this, because "building character" and "all work is moral" or whatever.
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Aug 15, 2012 01:52
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Countblanc posted:This is what gets me. My sister works two dead-end near-minimum wage jobs (probably about 50 hours a week total), but refuses to seek government aid that she'd definitely qualify for because my mother has endowed both her and I with the idea that getting help is "cheating" and only immoral sloth-people do it. I've been fortunate enough to shake that off in the past few years, but my sister isn't a particularly politically-savvy person and just accepts what she was raised to believe, so here she is, suffering and working her rear end off because my mom happened to be an extremely successful business woman (which I give her credit for, certainly, but it's not really a rags to riches story, her family was always middle class growing up). And yet neither her nor my mother see any issue with this, because "building character" and "all work is moral" or whatever. But if helping is cheating... why call the fire department if your house is burning down? The hell?
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Aug 15, 2012 02:00
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That's why she pays her taxes. Now she can get the help she paid for when she needs it. Tell her it's more like insurance then welfare. She paid in, now it's her run to use her social policy.
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Aug 15, 2012 02:26
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Errant Gin Monks posted:That's why she pays her taxes. Now she can get the help she paid for when she needs it. Tell her it's more like insurance then welfare. She paid in, now it's her run to use her social policy. I just don't get this distinction between paying taxes for the fire department and paying for healthcare. Which is why, I guess, libertarians hate me. They agree, they just draw a horrendously different conclusion.
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Aug 15, 2012 02:36
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Countblanc posted:This is what gets me. My sister works two dead-end near-minimum wage jobs (probably about 50 hours a week total), but refuses to seek government aid that she'd definitely qualify for because my mother has endowed both her and I with the idea that getting help is "cheating" and only immoral sloth-people do it. I've been fortunate enough to shake that off in the past few years, but my sister isn't a particularly politically-savvy person and just accepts what she was raised to believe, so here she is, suffering and working her rear end off because my mom happened to be an extremely successful business woman (which I give her credit for, certainly, but it's not really a rags to riches story, her family was always middle class growing up). And yet neither her nor my mother see any issue with this, because "building character" and "all work is moral" or whatever. Welfare is poison for the soul, dontcha know. Waaaay too many people actually believe that.
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Aug 15, 2012 02:43
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dur posted:Welfare is poison for the soul, dontcha know. It's some sort of ideal that "suffering is good! And full of virtue!". Torture just makes your heart swell with compassion!
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Aug 15, 2012 02:58
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HMDK posted:It's some sort of ideal that "suffering is good! And full of virtue!". I think so, but maybe not in such a spiritual-ish way. My family has never been religious, nor have we attended church since I was 3 years old, so I don't think it necessarily is a "virtuous" task so much as it's just this idea that "work good, not work bad" and government assistance is basically synonymous with "not work" in many people's minds so yeah.
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Aug 15, 2012 03:01
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Countblanc posted:I think so, but maybe not in such a spiritual-ish way. My family has never been religious, nor have we attended church since I was 3 years old, so I don't think it necessarily is a "virtuous" task so much as it's just this idea that "work good, not work bad" and government assistance is basically synonymous with "not work" in many people's minds so yeah. Sure. Where ideas come from does matter, but not always as much as their effects. Which have a tendency to linger. "Work is its own reward", is the single most disgusting thing ever uttered, regardless of authorial intent.
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Aug 15, 2012 03:14
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Hey! So I'm having difficulty proving a point in a familial debate. My google-fu has failed me. My thesis is that parental income (or wealth) is the largest indicator of a child's financial success. However I can't find any information to back up this claim. My siblings belong to the bootstrap philosophy leading to comments such as, "more millionaires come from broke families than rich families." Now, millionaire is a loaded term. Really I should have avoided millionaire and used "highest tax bracket," "upper class," "1% (lol)," or something similar. Can anyone provide me with any statistical data. I know we're supposed to submit written statements, but I just felt that what was said was so wrong I had to post it. Any ideas or proof?
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Aug 15, 2012 04:11
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RaySmuckles posted:Hey! So I'm having difficulty proving a point in a familial debate. My google-fu has failed me. My thesis is that parental income (or wealth) is the largest indicator of a child's financial success. However I can't find any information to back up this claim. My siblings belong to the bootstrap philosophy leading to comments such as, "more millionaires come from broke families than rich families." Now, millionaire is a loaded term. Really I should have avoided millionaire and used "highest tax bracket," "upper class," "1% (lol)," or something similar. Can anyone provide me with any statistical data. Phoneposting. Look up charts on social mobility over time.
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Aug 15, 2012 04:13
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Here's one comparing the U.S. with Denmark http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/social-mobility-america
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Aug 15, 2012 04:28
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Augster posted:Here's one comparing the U.S. with Denmark gently caress, I'm a dane and I think WE'RE doing bad. But in comparison?
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Aug 15, 2012 04:32
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I wonder how effective it would be to just tell these people to imagine that all their tax money goes ARE TROOPS, and all mine will go towards social programs and research and parks and all the other things that make a society worth living in?
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Aug 15, 2012 06:08
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Nth Doctor posted:My wife, Ms. Doctor, has a friend from middle school who posted a moderately terrible conservative opinion on facebook. What transpired... hoo boy. He clearly has no idea that TANF and UI are two very, very different programs.
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Aug 15, 2012 06:28
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nm posted:He clearly has no idea that TANF and UI are two very, very different programs. It's also great how he implies that single mothers with multiple children shouldn't be getting any assistance. I'm sure he's also opposed to sex ed and free birth control. So yeah, gently caress the moms, gently caress the kids, gently caress you, got mine.
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Aug 15, 2012 08:23
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This keeps keeps coming up on my facebook feed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bib7kKBhqs gently caress Obama, gently caress poor people. Please let me fellate job-creators. Also Ryan says Canadian federal marginal income tax rates are 15%. They're 15% in the lowest tax bracket, and he's comparing it to the States' highest. Am I missing something or is that super scummy? Jeseuss fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 09:54
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Not an email, but it fits. The owner of my company roped me into a discussion. She's a typical millionaire living a bubble, and gets all of her information from Fox News. She tells me if Obama is elected again he's going to dictate what companies can pay their employees. So I tell her that even if Obama wanted to do that, he has no power to implement it, and it would have to be granted by Congress, which won't happen. Her response was "look at how he decided to change illegal immigration laws! He does whatever he wants!" I explained to her that Obama was choosing not to enforce certain laws, which is a long-standing tradition (though arguably not legal), and that the President cannot simply make new laws by himself. She didn't have a response and started talking about how Obama's going to take away all her stuff. I love that I have to give my boss loving American Civics 101 lessons.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:13
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RaySmuckles posted:Hey! So I'm having difficulty proving a point in a familial debate. My google-fu has failed me. My thesis is that parental income (or wealth) is the largest indicator of a child's financial success. However I can't find any information to back up this claim. My siblings belong to the bootstrap philosophy leading to comments such as, "more millionaires come from broke families than rich families." Now, millionaire is a loaded term. Really I should have avoided millionaire and used "highest tax bracket," "upper class," "1% (lol)," or something similar. Can anyone provide me with any statistical data. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States Has quite a few sources and I believe paints the picture nicely.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:24
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Windozer posted:It's also great how he implies that single mothers with multiple children shouldn't be getting any assistance. I'm sure he's also opposed to sex ed and free birth control. If you keep reading one of the screeds, you'll find Blue is a stay at home mother of 3. Maybe that gently caress moms, kids, and FYGM hits a little closer to her core than she thinks. She comes so close to getting it but doesn't realize you shouldn't need both a job and to sell your possessions on EBay to get by... 
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Aug 15, 2012 14:36
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quote:She didn't have a response and started talking about how Obama's going to take away all her stuff. I quite often find myself telling my parents how Obama isn't going to take their stuff. Because we all live in Canada. And then I remind them that lots of the stuff they're worried about happening in the States has actually already happened here (and usually gone much further). And I remind them how crazy they went in the fight against any sort of privatization of healthcare here like 3 years ago. Summary: I wish my parents couldn't get so much American TV.
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Aug 15, 2012 16:10
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jmzero posted:I quite often find myself telling my parents how Obama isn't going to take their stuff. Because we all live in Canada. I really had to restrain myself from saying, "Yeah, it's a horrible time to be incredibly wealthy", because I think my eyes would have rolled straight out of my head.
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Aug 15, 2012 16:12
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Crackbone posted:I really had to restrain myself from saying, "Yeah, it's a horrible time to be incredibly wealthy", because I think my eyes would have rolled straight out of my head. My boss constantly uses "Obama is loving me in the rear end" for absolutely any time he makes a bad business decision.
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Aug 15, 2012 16:27
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I'm really lucky that the owner of the company I work for doesn't really talk about politics (with me anyways) because I would probably end up getting fired due to having difficulty in biting my tongue when people say stupid/horrible things.
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Aug 15, 2012 16:30
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BonoMan posted:My boss constantly uses "Obama is loving me in the rear end" for absolutely any time he makes a bad business decision. I could be making so much more money if I didn't have to treat you fuckers like human beings. 
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Aug 15, 2012 17:10
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I work as a contractor for the Army, so my coworkers and bosses tend to skew a little to the right. Which I think is ironic, because we all live off of taxpayer money. My last project manager loved to get into big political discussions at work, and I somehow avoided them all. I'd walk by his office, look in, and one of my coworkers would mouth "walk away" so I wouldn't get sucked in. I did start something with him on the Catholic Church and the birth control mandate one day, and he said, "Hey, let's talk about this more in my office." I was like, "Oh man, I'd love to but I got soooooo many tickets today  "I worked with a staunch older libertarian at the power company. I was complaining about how my landlord at the time was dicking me over, and he responded, "This is why everyone should carry guns like in the old west. No one would mess with you!" And the generally angry conservative dude in the cube next to me seemed to have a hard time being proud of his son for being so good at learning Spanish, because he didn't "see why he needs to learn it."
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Aug 15, 2012 17:11
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Sulphuric Sundae posted:And the generally angry conservative dude in the cube next to me seemed to have a hard time being proud of his son for being so good at learning Spanish, because he didn't "see why he needs to learn it." Because the Glorious Free Market will reward him for this skill because it will allow him to deal with inferior Hispanophone businessmen and laborers in their native language, thus earning him greater benefits as a Captain of Industry? Basic free market economics in a skilled-labor economy; he who has the most marketable skills wins, and speaking a foreign language is definitely up there. Especially considering just how many people speak Spanish; 3rd most common language used online, more native speakers than any language except Mandarin, and one of the Official UN Languages.
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Aug 15, 2012 17:23
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BonoMan posted:My boss constantly uses "Obama is loving me in the rear end" for absolutely any time he makes a bad business decision. 
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Aug 15, 2012 17:49
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Also this is an actual ad on the GOP website: Obama controls the weather
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Aug 15, 2012 18:06
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darthbob88 posted:Because the Glorious Free Market will reward him for this skill because it will allow him to deal with inferior Hispanophone businessmen and laborers in their native language, thus earning him greater benefits as a Captain of Industry? Basic free market economics in a skilled-labor economy; he who has the most marketable skills wins, and speaking a foreign language is definitely up there. Especially considering just how many people speak Spanish; 3rd most common language used online, more native speakers than any language except Mandarin, and one of the Official UN Languages. But why can't everybody just speak goddamn English?!?! The dude would also make lots of "ching chong" jokes after an Asian employee called. If they had any bit of an accent or a funny-looking name. And then he'd laugh at his own uncreative racist joke.
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Aug 15, 2012 18:11
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 I like how some people think their God is powerful enough to create and govern the entire universe, but not powerful enough to exert any influence over schools solely because teachers are no longer allowed to force kids to worship him there.
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Aug 15, 2012 18:24
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