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Wiltsghost
Mar 27, 2011


For wabbajack lists you really need to join their discord because you can usually talk to the list author or people who've played the list a bunch.

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ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013

Sometimes Wabbajack modlists have a solid Readme that properly introduces you to the new mechanics and changes, and sometimes, well, sometimes they don't.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Fenrisulfr posted:

I've seen lists that include a mod requiring you to have the Ancient Knowledge perk from the Unfathomable Depths sidequest that starts in Riften before you can craft dwarven armor, maybe that's what's going on. If you're handy with xEdit you can check the recipes for the armor there and see what the requirements are, or you can ask on the list's Discord to find out for sure.

nope.


... also I enabled the experimental Even Bigger More Overpowered Mod Trees option labeled "use at your own risk" so the discord might not be too helpful either :negative:

Bruteman
Apr 15, 2003

Can I ask ya somethin', Padre? When I was kickin' your ass back there... you get a little wood?

Zereth posted:

nope.


... also I enabled the experimental Even Bigger More Overpowered Mod Trees option labeled "use at your own risk" so the discord might not be too helpful either :negative:

Assuming it hasn't changed in the last week or so, someone else had the same question as you and the modlist author indicated you need the Ancient Knowledge perk from the quest referenced above:

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Bruteman posted:

Assuming it hasn't changed in the last week or so, someone else had the same question as you and the modlist author indicated you need the Ancient Knowledge perk from the quest referenced above:


Ah, thanks.

Annoying news, but at least I know what to do now.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/97253?tab=posts



lmao. I have to go back to the old modlist all over again.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Does anybody know why Legacy of the Dragonborn fate cards have 7 and 8 as the rarest cards? Last time I played something with it, and now, I have tons of everything else, but 7 and 8 are the bottleneck for making decks.

Did they gently caress up the loot tables or something? Or is this an intentional choice?

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



I've never been able to do anything with those cards and kinda just treat them as moderately expensive (and best of all, utterly weightless) clutter items.

Commander Keene fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Aug 3, 2023

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Commander Keene posted:

I've never been able to do anything with those cards and kinda just treat them as moderately expensive (and best of all, utterly weightless) clutter items.
If you collect 2 through ace of the same suit (this may require making trades at the guy in the cornerclub in windhelm, you can trade any rank for the same rank in another suit) you can use a card of that suit to make an item which provides a passive bonus while in your inventory or the tool bag. The decks are also exhibit items.

Except you're gonna have trouble doing this because you'll get no loving seven or eight cards and there's no way to trade, say, multiple duplicates in a card suit for a different rank in that suit, say, and the one guy who sells them (the same as the guy who trades) only sells face cards and aces like they thought THOSE were the ones you'd have trouble finding but no, it's SEVENS and EIGHTS and I think eights are slightly rarer because I remember a lot of "oh, I found an eight! Now to go laboriously work through the trade dialogue of the guy to produce a full set of 13 of something" why are the rare cards 7 and 8 what is the loving problem icecreamassassin why are these so rare compared to more expensive higher rank cards

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Sounds like I'm doing the right thing then. :v:

ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013

I had a 380+ hour long playthrough and I only ever completed a single card set, it gave a minor bonus to something

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Probably +10 to 3 skills or so, but the perk set I'm using also makes that scale Destruction spells that much harder

I'm about 70 hours in I think on this playthrough and I've got two, and can make like, four or five more if I find some loving eights :orks:

Eifert Posting
Apr 1, 2007

Most of the time he catches it every time.
Grimey Drawer

Commander Keene posted:

I've never been able to do anything with those cards and kinda just treat them as moderately expensive (and best of all, utterly weightless) clutter items.

You know you can trade right?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Say is there a way to use the console or something to run the script that Dragonborn uses to refund a skill's perk tree? I'm getting tired of the fire perks making everything explode constantly thus throwing everything in the room all over the place and want to try respeccing to lightning. And I would prefer not having to do the entire Dragonborn main plot before I get to do that.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Zereth posted:

Say is there a way to use the console or something to run the script that Dragonborn uses to refund a skill's perk tree? I'm getting tired of the fire perks making everything explode constantly thus throwing everything in the room all over the place and want to try respeccing to lightning. And I would prefer not having to do the entire Dragonborn main plot before I get to do that.
Doesn't look like it, but you could look up the ID of the perks and use player.removeperk [ID] to remove the perks you don't want and player.addperk [ID] to add the ones you want. The command help "[perkname]" should be useful in getting the IDs, though I haven't tried it with perks specifically to be sure.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
There's this mod

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1960/

For respeccing, but it refunds all your perk points, so if you're high level it might be annoying.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Commander Keene posted:

Doesn't look like it, but you could look up the ID of the perks and use player.removeperk [ID] to remove the perks you don't want and player.addperk [ID] to add the ones you want. The command help "[perkname]" should be useful in getting the IDs, though I haven't tried it with perks specifically to be sure.
Thing is I'm pretty sure there are more perks in the Specifically Just Fire part of the Destruction tree than there are Destruction perks total in vanilla. :negative: Any other option besides "manually remove and then add the perks" or "beat Dragonborn main quest" would require adding mods to this already quite large modpack though and I didn't go to Wabbajack because I am confident in my ability to deal with modding skyrim myself.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Are you running Vokriinator Black or something? Because SPERG, one of the components of Vokriinator, has a respec option in its MCM settings you could try if you're desperate. I don't know if it works with the whole Vokriinator setup, and it refunds everything - so you might have a lot of work to do to get everything back the way you want it - but it's another option you could try.

And I'm pretty sure even mod-added perks still need perk IDs to work in the game, so you should still try manually removing and adding each perk, assuming the help command can give you their IDs.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Ordinator has a built in way to reset perks as well, if you're using that.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Commander Keene posted:

Are you running Vokriinator Black
Yes.

EDIT: I'll give those a shot, I guess. And my objection to the manual method isn't that it won't work, it's that it's a bunch of work, that I could gently caress up. :ohdear:

Zereth fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Aug 6, 2023

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Ordinator's MCM does not have an option, and SPERG resets some of my perks, I assume the ones that originate from it.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Looks like there's a scroll you can craft at a cooking pot in Ordinator, it requires five Daedra Hearts. But if you're looking at the console anyways you might as well console in either the hearts or the scroll. Though I feel like you'll probably get a similar result as with SPERG's respec option, that it'll remove some of the perks but not all of them.

Rainbow Knight
Apr 19, 2006

We die.
We pray.
To live.
We serve

my method is to player.setav skill 100, then legendary it, then set it back to what it was. you get all your perk points back and can then reinvest them

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Something, probably something related to the "you gain levels through killing things and quests and exploring, not skills going up" is preventing whatever UI element you use for legendarying a skill (I've never done that so I'm not sure what to look for) from appearing

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Rainbow Knight posted:

my method is to player.setav skill 100, then legendary it, then set it back to what it was. you get all your perk points back and can then reinvest them

Oh drat, never thought of that.

Rainbow Knight
Apr 19, 2006

We die.
We pray.
To live.
We serve

Zereth posted:

Something, probably something related to the "you gain levels through killing things and quests and exploring, not skills going up" is preventing whatever UI element you use for legendarying a skill (I've never done that so I'm not sure what to look for) from appearing

if your skills still have a level number associated with them then it should work, as long as the skill is 100. maybe there's a MCM option for enabling or disabling legendary skills.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Okay there's no UI element for it, but pressing what I googled the hotkey for gives me the popup, thanks!

Eifert Posting
Apr 1, 2007

Most of the time he catches it every time.
Grimey Drawer

ThaumPenguin posted:

Putting Pelinal's crusader gear on display in the museum foyer, knowing that the Thalmor embassy is directly outside of town and that they're certainly 100% aware of what I'm up to, is one of the conceptually funniest things my Dragonborn ever did.

I also love this. The wings where they just have random mannequins that don't have stuff assigned to them already I just put all of the Thalmor outfits from my various murder sprees.

I'm sure they would ideally like to do something, But there's just a little problem that the dude flipping them off is Thane of every town, The leader of every organization, has literally saved the world like four times at this point, and is personal besties with Alduin's little brother.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Lipstick Apathy
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64446

Protip: I just helped this modder fix their mod up and now it has Drocabbon changed to replace Banning selling Vigilance if he dies and Annageline changed to replace Hogni selling meat if he dies, also got some basic packages and an AI overhaul patch in. Description hasn't been updated to include it. I've been playing with this file for a while and it's so nice if you get stabby in the Namira quest against the cannibals.

Also it's nice to just have some more Reachmen in the Reach.

Frush
Jun 26, 2008
If I were to play this on gamepass, could I get or use enough of the better mods to make it worthwhile? I suspect this question is approaching heresy to some people.

Flowing Thot
Apr 1, 2023

:murder:
You won’t be able to use anything that uses SKSE. You still have a lot to choose from but will also be locked out of a lot of stuff.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
I think a lot of the bigger mods have made non SKSE versions just because otherwise they also aren't available to Xbox users. But there's a lot where it's just not possible.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
the current bleeding edge of skyrim mods are all SKSE dependent.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012

In many cases these new mods are dependent on other DLL frameworks that are doing things as fundamental and low-level as SKSE itself. A lot of modern Skyrim extension is happening outside SKSE through frameworks like https://github.com/Ryan-rsm-McKenzie/CommonLibSSE and who knows what else since I last modded this game.

All those mods need DLLs to be loaded, which may be a problem on consoles (other than the mighty Steam Deck, of course).


Aside: Somehow I find myself preferring to play BG3 on the Deck's controller interface to mouse & keyboard at the PC. Sometimes jerky 800p @ 30 fps with medium to low graphics over 3440x1440 ultrawide @ 100+ fps with all bells and whistles cranked up. I played it on the Deck for 9-10 hours while traveling this week and came home to find I'd rather stick with it to sitting at the PC desk, even if I use a controller for the mostly superior UI the game switches to.

The Deck really is the little machine that can. The bump in capabilities of the eventual successor will be glorious. There are other great little machines being released, but they all lack the touchpads of the Deck, which are essential for many games if you want to use mouse controls or have tons of widgets to map keyboard stuff to.

kartikeya
Mar 17, 2009


Requiem mod lists were brought up a few pages back, and I do have to throw my recommendation in for Wildlander if someone's looking for one. I have a love/hate relationship with Requiem, but my short delve into Wildlander was by far the most fun I've had with it. I did toss some mods on top, like Experience (with a Requiem tailored ini), and a few housing mods (though the ones I chose are so small that calling them studio apartments is kind've generous), and some custom music, but that's about it.

My experience:

Decided to play a dunmer that had just escaped the Thalmor, so I picked starting at the Windhelm border gate with the reasoning that Windhelm has to be the best place for a dark elf to hide under those circumstances. In the spirit of a modlist with the pitch of living a virtual Skyrim life or whatever, I committed to the bit: no weapon, no money, no supplies, I even tossed the armor and console'd in some rags instead. I believe I put my points in sneak, lockpicking, and pickpocket, something like that. Disabled the restriction on being able to set up camping supplies inside city bounds (Wildlander really makes the Gray Quarter into a proper slum, so this made sense to me). Finally, I jumped off a rock or something so that the character was injured (there's no health regen).

The trade off for this nonsense was simple: short of out and out cheating, everything was permitted. Train a near invincible frost troll onto the Windhelm bridge and then loot the corpse of that rear end in a top hat guard that threatened to kill me? Absolutely. Stun lock some random level 40 murderer that spawned on the road by running him over with my horse again and again until he stayed down? You bet. Valtheim Tower bandits keep shooting me to death on my way to Whiterun? I introduced them to their friendly neighborhood giant. Once I stole enough to buy a tent and a chest to keep things in, I camped out on a rooftop overlooking the Gray Quarter and did my best not to freeze to death when it got dark. I eventually picked the pockets of everyone in Windhelm that wasn't a fellow Dunmer and gambled most of it at the cornerclub. The guards were too lazy to follow the most obvious blood trail that has ever existed in Tamriel, so I took care of that poo poo, and when the steward rewarded me with nothing more than a pat on the head, I helped myself to anything of value in his room. And the guards' room. And Ulfric's room. Got my horse by skulking around above a hunter's camp until dark and then leaping on one and running away until it let me claim it, and once I had that, I rode it to Riften and joined up with the Thieves Guild for some armor and access to a pickpocket trainer. Did I repeatedly pick his pockets? drat straight. How else was I going to learn? Then I made a small career of trotting around Skyrim on my horse delivering packages and occasionally dipping into a city to steal something for the guild and a lot of things for myself. If I saw a Thalmor patrol I ran away, though sometimes I felt bold and stupid and attempted to kill them through the tried and true method of "find something bigger and scarier then run past them flailing my arms". I about poo poo a brick the first time a dragon showed up and couldn't run away fast enough (that's a lie, I could, but just barely).

Things didn't last much past that because I ended up being distracted by something shiny and wandering off to a different game, and I doubt I would have continued too deeply because, as mentioned, there are things I do not like about Requiem and its idea of difficulty tops the list, but I did genuinely enjoy my week or so roleplaying a fugitive kleptomaniacal chaos elf thief-courier in Wildlander's attempt at a gritty fantasy life simulator.

Anyway, so I'm cannibalizing a lot of mods it includes into a LotD Vokriinator build. I really like the JK Skyrim/Dawn of Skyrim combo, but I've poked at Cities of the North previously, and I'm wondering how much of a pain it would be getting them to work together. I've seen a patch for JK's alone, but not one for both. Last time I poked at quest mods I tried Project AHO (mostly fun until I ran into the trap fetish dungeon, but also hilarious in its attempt to convince me that I shouldn't raze their settlement to the ground), and I don't think I feel like messing with that again, even if I did turn my character's former master into a boot. I've heard good things about Bruma? I've had Helgen Reborn in various lists before, but I've never actually messed with it, should I? I know Moonpath and Gray Cowl are ancient messes, but I plan to run through them for the experience (or self inflicted torture). I had Clockwork recommended to me before but likewise didn't get around to actually playing it: does that thing have jump scares?

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Grey Cowl is decent once you get through the incredibly, incredibly long dungeon and to the actual zone.

EDIT: Also, Lost Legacy has LotD and Vokriinator. Not sure about the rest of the stuff you want, but at least take a look at it. (The Vokriinator Black thing I turned on is labeled "experimental use at own risk".)

Zereth fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Aug 13, 2023

kartikeya
Mar 17, 2009


Zereth posted:

Grey Cowl is decent once you get through the incredibly, incredibly long dungeon and to the actual zone.

EDIT: Also, Lost Legacy has LotD and Vokriinator. Not sure about the rest of the stuff you want, but at least take a look at it. (The Vokriinator Black thing I turned on is labeled "experimental use at own risk".)

Oh, hey, thanks, I hadn't seen that one. Looking over the list, it's got a number of things I wouldn't want (my old nemesis OBIS looms large), but it also has a lot of stuff I'm either planning on including, thinking of including, or hadn't heard of before, along with the necessary patches, so if nothing else I'm probably going to bookmark it for mod shopping.

Corsec
Apr 17, 2007

kartikeya posted:

...there are things I do not like about Requiem and its idea of difficulty tops the list...

I'm curious what you dislike about Requiem's difficulty? I've been meaning to play Skyrim for ages but I keep procrastinating because I can't decide whether to use either Requiem or delevelled EnaiRim. So many pros and cons with each option.

kartikeya
Mar 17, 2009


Corsec posted:

I'm curious what you dislike about Requiem's difficulty? I've been meaning to play Skyrim for ages but I keep procrastinating because I can't decide whether to use either Requiem or delevelled EnaiRim. So many pros and cons with each option.

Haha, you stepped in it, it's essay time. Essentially, my problems with Requiem's ideas of difficulty are problems - disagreements, really - that I have with a lot of mods that add difficulty to the game, it's just that Requiem has a bad tendency to gather them all up and sit at the top of the heap as the biggest offender. Not always! But very often. At its core, Skyrim's not designed to be a difficult game. It wants you to wander around anywhere you like while picking flowers, falling into tombs, and fighting so many loving dragons that you've basically got a standing appointment with one any time you stroll into Riverwood. Any mod looking to make this a rougher experience needs to take that into account, and they often don't, instead narrowing the possibilities of what a PC can do so much that at lower levels the game is almost linear. When you walk out of the cave and get a first look at the game world, the impression it's meant to give you is not "okay now walk down to Riverwood and cry a bit while hiding behind Ralof/Hadvar when some wolves turn up." I want to stress that the idea of being a complete weakling and having to work your way up a little to hold your own against a few bandits is itself a fine enough idea for people looking for that kind of thing, but Requiem is very much disinterested in the idea of providing a bridge to get to that point. Mods like Experience or Missives are great at giving your baby Dragonborn something to do, but vanilla Requiem has nothing. This means the initial experience is seeing a vast open world and then struggling to do anything interesting in it. Further, Skyrim's own idea of harder difficulties is to make enemies extraordinarily tanky and to make the PC increasingly made of tissue paper. Requiem does a lot of formulaic calculations of armor weight, stamina, general mass, etc, but it ultimately comes back to doing the same thing with much greater intensity; it spikes enemy damage to the point of one or two shotting your character even when you get a few levels under your belt, while making enemies an absolute chore to kill well into your teens and often past your twenties, even when those enemies have no business being that strong.

Let's take the humble mudcrab. At low levels you can and will get your rear end handed to you if you try to fight them, particularly so because Requiem gives different types of enemies different weaknesses/strengths against different weapons. Crabs are vulnerable to blunt weapons (iirc), and extremely resistant to blades. If you don't have a blunt weapon, you're in even more trouble - that crab will gently caress you up regardless of what you're wielding, but if you don't have the proper rock to its scissors, you'll barely scratch it. I get what they're going for here, but the game means mudcrabs to be what you kill at level 1, so mudcrabs should probably not be crustacean-shaped murder tanks. It can get worse though; what if the combat skill you decided to take was archery? In base Skyrim, you could pick up some 2h warhammer or something without any skill and it would do the job of crab killing, but Requiem really pushes you to focus on very specific skills at the cost of all others. If you don't put at least one perk point into a skill tree, you are worse than useless with it, so if you've put your points into archery instead, you're better off shooting ten thousand arrows at the side-walking harbinger of doom than attempting to smash it with the weapon it's meant to be smashed with. So what do you do? Well...too often Requiem's answer to the metaphorical mudcrab scenario is "just don't kill mudcrabs". Which...I don't think is a very good approach at all.

At the other end of the scale, you know my crack about the invincible frost troll? Yeah that wasn't a joke. Frost trolls regenerate so loving fast that a whole battalion of guards beating on one isn't a sure win. It would go back to full health if they stopped for a few seconds. That thing killed all but two of the guards on the bridge and it took a good five minutes for them to bring it down. I could have solved a murder mystery while waiting for them to finish up. The paper-rock-scissors for trolls is fire, but oh boy it isn't fire enough. Ask me about the time I trained one into a Thalmor patrol. It was extremely funny. And messy. Troll: 3, Fire spells: 0.

But anyway, you get the idea. Too much damage, too much health/damage resistance, and it's always kind've janky trying to dodge attacks in this game, even with mods that specifically give you one. Plenty of difficulty mods do that. Requiem, however, compounds the issue, because it also completely delevels Skyrim. And I tend to like deleveling Skyrim, but oh gosh is Skyrim not meant to be deleveled. That level 40 assassin decked out in enchanted armor problem I solved with extreme equine road rage was a random encounter. And sure, alright, that's actually fine, being jumped by someone I have basically no chance at killing because I stole a cabbage from Viola's house is something I can get behind. ...But it is everything. All the time. Mods that delevel Skyrim tend to do poo poo like make draugr ruins high level content, which on the surface makes sense, but the first dungeon the main quest sends you into is Bleak Falls Barrow, which is unfortunately full of draugr (and a giant spider. Ahahaha. No.) This means that you can't advance the main quest past the second step until you're pushing level 20, unless the deleveler takes pains to lower the difficulty of the draugr (and giant spider) in Bleak Falls Barrow specifically. Requiem does not do this. My first time playing Requiem and encountering a full powered draugr death lord at the bottom of the barrow was an experience. Unfortunately, it was an obnoxious experience in which I had to reload repeatedly and finally beat the thing by kiting it around and around the room for ages. That wasn't entertaining and didn't require any real skill on my part, just dogged spite. Make it through that, though, and you get to fight a dragon next. Allow me a hearty laugh as I recall what it's like fighting a dragon in Requiem. Ha ha ha. Anyway, that means you're not getting access to the core conceit of Skyrim - the ability to yell people off of cliffs - until relatively late. Once more, I get the intent, but I don't think such a hard stop on the main quest right at the beginning is a good approach. It needs more of a curve and Requiem just doesn't do that. Requiem hates curves and wants them to die, preferably to some seemingly innocuous ancient evil. Like a goat.

I've some (possible?) praise to round out my complaining, because I was going to die on the hill of invisible loving enemies are bad and mods that add them should feel bad, but it seeeems like those were patched out a few years back? Maybe? If so, good, I'll just throw OBIS (ptuh) on the hill to die instead. And then I'll light it on fire. At least Requiem never made me fight invisible bandits.

Very tl;dr: it does too much with what it's trying to do, without making any allowances or exceptions to this where they probably should be made. Low level experience suffers and has very little it can do, mid level experience is saddled with a lot of the stuff initially meant for lower levels, and high level experience - at least in previous iterations of the mod, it's been a while since I leveled that far in Requiem - swings wildly from 'ow my everything' to 'lol I'm a god'.

Anyway, that sort of stuff is the hate side of my love/hate for the mod. There are a lot of things I really enjoy about Requiem, and there are a lot that I want to enjoy except Requiem keeps occasionally throwing crab shaped bricks at my head. I think it says something that the most I've enjoyed it was when I was essentially just using it against itself, but I don't think that thing it says is necessarily all bad. I did have my own crooked sort of fun, and that's ultimately the aim.

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Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
That sounds similar to my requiem experience from when it first came out as a mod many years ago, there is a very narrow area of "level appropriate content" that you just have to guess where to find because the ruins across from the starter town might be for level 1 or level 30 and the real challenge is finding that to level up on and then expanding on where else you can go, repeat until strong enough to go everywhere.

Do low level archers still 1-2 shot you? that was my main experience and had to adjust enemy damage in the menu's down to 10% just so I could survive a single arrow at level 20+ while pumping health and keeping armor spells up.

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