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The wraithguard/blades plastics are indeed lovely models - I’m almost tempted by a start collecting box, held back only by the fact I have no need for an additional wraithlord or farseer (and I should probably not buy anything else till my Wraithknight is built and painted. The idea of some sort of ancient Aeldari temple on a maiden world full of abandoned wraithguard is kinda cool. In other craftworlds news, I’ve been going through the codex (iPad edition due to aforementioned delivery annoyances) and a few things I hadn’t picked up on from the previews:
My only gripe is that the remnants of power could have used an editing pass - it looks like some of them were written at the point where you could still mix and match Autarch weapons - for example, there’s one that is meant to replace a shuriken pistol or catupult, but there’s no current character model in the army that can take a catupult (unless it can apply to twins on bikes, which it doesn’t specify). There’s one weirdy like that in the stratagems too - an option to fire an anti air missile from an infantry missile launcher with benefits including +1 to hit, which applies to exactly two models in the army, one of which (reaper exarch) doesn’t benefit from hit modifiers.
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Oct 28, 2017 11:33
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Star Glaive
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Wraithknights also got 100 points cheaper (!!), 402 down from 502, ghostaxes on Wraithblades are now only 16 ppm down from 23. They both look like valid options now.
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Oct 28, 2017 12:41
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Thanqol posted:Wraithknights also got 100 points cheaper (!!), 402 down from 502, ghostaxes on Wraithblades are now only 16 ppm down from 23. They both look like valid options now. The base cost of the wraithknight stayed the same - the default heavy wraithcannons cost 100 points total. The big drop is that the sword is 35 points cheaper, and starcannons are vastly more reasonably priced. I’m likely to try mine out with the sword / starcannons load out once it’s painted up.
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Oct 28, 2017 12:52
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Do we still mention  that GW isn’t completely evil?
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Oct 28, 2017 13:03
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Corrode posted:How pathetic do you have to be to have that happen and be like 'did I overreact?' Well, he is a Warhammer 40,000 player.  One_Wing posted:My only gripe is that the remnants of power could have used an editing pass - it looks like some of them were written at the point where you could still mix and match Autarch weapons - for example, there’s one that is meant to replace a shuriken pistol or catupult, but there’s no current character model in the army that can take a catupult (unless it can apply to twins on bikes, which it doesn’t specify). There’s one weirdy like that in the stratagems too - an option to fire an anti air missile from an infantry missile launcher with benefits including +1 to hit, which applies to exactly two models in the army, one of which (reaper exarch) doesn’t benefit from hit modifiers. The stratagems are so loving good. I'm sure we'll be seeing the tears soon. The shuriken catapult thing is pretty hilarious, but the skyfire missile is clearly intended specifically for Guardians. They just didn't tag it, probably for Reapers and possible futureproofing.
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Oct 28, 2017 14:36
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Corrode posted:How pathetic do you have to be to have that happen and be like 'did I overreact?' I think that's probably one of them "rhetorical questions" we done learned about at that there fancy city school? 
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Oct 28, 2017 14:41
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The Bee posted:Which units need the most changes? I know the current Tyranid meta seems to be tons of Genestealer hordes, but that's all I'm really aware of. Well almost everything need the points adjusted compared to the new codexes, but Tyranids are loaded with trap choices right now and have no reliable anti armour anywhere in the list. Being melee focused is fine but then they need a reliable delivery method and units that can actually affect things like Russes and flyers when they get there.
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Oct 28, 2017 15:01
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Serotonin posted:Just going to leave this here Being a dick about LoS and then proxying empty bases would actually be hilarious to do to someone as a joke, and I might try pulling this poo poo next time I'm playing someone I don't care about (so pick-up games or TheChirurgeon).
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Oct 28, 2017 15:24
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TKIY posted:Well almost everything need the points adjusted compared to the new codexes, but Tyranids are loaded with trap choices right now and have no reliable anti armour anywhere in the list. With Trygons and Tyrannocytes Tyranid have the most reliable delivery they’ve ever had, but I do agree more anti-tank is absolutely necessary. More would be great, but this is the first codex where you can be where you intended and not be at a massive disadvantage. Both options are good units, though the Tyrannocyte is overcosted. A lot of the weapons that used to be a decent anti-tank choice just have no hope of wounding the new “creature” tanks and haywire affects now being a mortal wound is almost laughable when your target has 10-14+. It would be great to see Pyrovores come out with a concentrated fire melta-like shot and hopefully a Warp Blast psychic power that didn’t suck poo poo (a ~40% chance for the power to work was miserable). We’ll see, but based on how some of the other non-imperial codices have fared I’m hopeful. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 28, 2017 15:53
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Right, I think this is what I'm doing for my game tomorrow. Apologies for manual formatting, Battlescribe doesn't have the new values in it yet:pre:Detachment: Brigade Keyword: Biel Tan Unit Equipment Cost HQ: 1x Farseer Witchblade, Mind War, Doom 100 HQ: 1x Autarch Star Glaive, Powershield, Phoenix Gem, Fate's Messenger Warlord Trait 77 HQ: 1x Warlock Singing Spear, Jinx/Protect 40 Troops: 5x Dire Avengers Exarch with extra catupult 64 Troops: 5x Dire Avengers Default Exarch 60 Troops: 5x Dire Avengers Default Exarch 60 Troops: 5x Dire Avengers Default Exarch 60 Troops: 5x Rangers Long Rifles 60 Troops: 20x Guardians Shuriken Catupults 160 Fast Attack: 7x Swooping Hawks Lasblasters, Exarch with Hawk's Talon + Power Sword 98 Fast Attack: 1x Vyper Bright Lance, Shuriken cannon 80 Fast Attack: 3x Windriders Shuriken Cannons 84 Heavy Support: 4x Dark Reapers Reaper Launchers, Exarch with AML 111 Heavy Support: 4x Dark Reapers Reaper Launchers, Default Exarch 108 Heavy Support: 1x Night Spinner Shuriken Cannon 145 Elites: 6x Howling Banshees Exarch with Executioner 81 Elites: 6x Striking Scorpions Default Exarch 84 Elites: 5x Wraithguard Wraith Cannons 200 Dedicated Transport: 1x Wave Serpent Twin Bright Lance, CTM, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones 172 Dedicated Transport: 1x Wave Serpent Twin Starcannon, Shuriken Catupults, Spirit Stones, CTM 155 TOTAL 1999 Just to give an idea of the aggregate effects of all the points drops, Battlescribe has this coming out to 2394 pts under index values. I'll hopefully put up a trip report after the game.
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Oct 28, 2017 15:55
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PierreTheMime posted:With Trygons and Tyrannocytes Tyranid have the most reliable delivery they’ve ever had, but I do agree more anti-tank is absolutely necessary. More would be great, but this is the first codex where you can be where you intended and not be at a massive disadvantage. Both options are good units, though the Tyrannocyte is overcosted. A big mobility issue is that the Tyrannocyte is pretty much the only transport still limited to a single unit. It means that dropping cheap units like Pyrovores is a waste of time, and trying to bring along characters like Primes is way too expensive. Trygons are of course limited to troops only, so no Primes or Broodlords tagging along there. I really hope that's something they address alongside the point cost.
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Oct 28, 2017 15:58
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Okay, guys, all of you. Time out! It's one thing to talk about the thigh gap of Carnifeces, AKA Carne Asade Enorme Stupdendo, but, please, let us not talk about their butt gap. You've really set me on edge. This talk is just inappropes to teh MAXXX. Stahp it. "I just got a lil' dizzy, I may hafta call 911."
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Oct 28, 2017 16:09
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xtothez posted:A big mobility issue is that the Tyrannocyte is pretty much the only transport still limited to a single unit. It means that dropping cheap units like Pyrovores is a waste of time, and trying to bring along characters like Primes is way too expensive. Trygons are of course limited to troops only, so no Primes or Broodlords tagging along there. I do agree, but since they haven’t used a bulky-style system in this edition I’m not sure where the best place to limit characters would be. Deploying multiple units would be great and would really change up the meta, but how many Broodlords is too many to have in 9” on turn 1?
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Oct 28, 2017 16:13
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Post 9-11 User posted:Okay, guys, all of you. But how can we not? I mean, it's clear and obvious that the Tyrannids are suffering from a woeful deficit in the posterior arsenal. A terrible shame, given how obviously superior the Orks are in this department. 10,000 years of power squats and the Space Marines still can't bounce a cred-chit like one ov da boyz.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:15
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My friend and I both hate genestealers and everything about them and we're really hoping that Tyranids get some anti-heavy infantry that don't have anything to do with them Like just give the warriors/shrikes some multi-damage weapons already
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Oct 28, 2017 16:22
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PierreTheMime posted:I do agree, but since they haven’t used a bulky-style system in this edition I’m not sure where the best place to limit characters would be. Deploying multiple units would be great and would really change up the meta, but how many Broodlords is too many to have in 9” on turn 1? I guess the simplest solution is to give them a transport capacity totalling ~20 wounds, and you can fill it with infantry until that runs out. That's 3 Broodlords with no cover, or 1 with a decent 'stealer escort.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:23
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One_Wing posted:The wraithguard/blades plastics are indeed lovely models - I’m almost tempted by a start collecting box, held back only by the fact I have no need for an additional wraithlord or farseer (and I should probably not buy anything else till my Wraithknight is built and painted. I agree with your conclusions from the list there - really mystified by the autarch change, as they've never made a model with any such weapon, it seems rather arbitrary, especially given the fluff is still there of autarchs taking bits of aspect kit as they progress. But I agree the weapon is good, it just restricts footslogging autarchs to a purely command role. And that's not bad, given the path of command rule and the cheap price (71 Pts). Stratagems seem to have a few really nice ones, deep strike ambush, deep striking, the -1 to hit and (for guardians) 4++ defensive stratagems all seem clutch. I think a lot of armies will gravitate towards shooting power rather than using the assault units. To a certain degree that's true of most competitive armies I think - shooting is just so much more predictable. But eldar units especially will always struggle with numbers, toughness and sheer number of attacks, which can't be fixed with special rules, even if some of them are cool and potentially powerful. Example: striking scorpions. Mandiblasters are a nice chance to maybe put down a couple mortal wounds. Deepstrike, +1 to hit units in cover - nice bonuses. But punch wise, they are assault marines. Fine, given their cost. But they have no special weapons and these are supposed to be the elite vanguard unit. It's a little anaemic. Fair enough, eldar are a mostly shooting army. My personal favourite unit is shining spears, and fortunately they seem pretty drat good. Not too expensive for their cost. Not too many attacks, but their shooting hits drat hard as well as their charge. And there are two stratagems which will help them: Warriors of the Raging Winds (  ) will let them hit hard and extend their reach to 22"+2d6 rerolling; Feigned Retreat costs 2 command points, but will let them charge after falling back, which might be vital.
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Oct 28, 2017 17:30
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Thanqol posted:I just assembled the new Start Collecting Eldar box and wow! These models are amazing! Post pics
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Oct 28, 2017 17:33
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ANAmal.net posted:Being a dick about LoS and then proxying empty bases would actually be hilarious to do to someone as a joke, and I might try pulling this poo poo next time I'm playing someone I don't care about (so pick-up games or TheChirurgeon). lol if you think I won't just shrug and steamroll you anyways
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Oct 28, 2017 17:44
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Other Tyranid units needing overhaul: Haruspex Tyrannofex Toxicrene Maleceptor Crone Harpy Pyrovore Lots of potential in these units but none of them really work on the manner they should for their points cost. I'd love for Rippers to have a use in the list too.
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Oct 28, 2017 18:45
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Word on the street is that smite is indeed capped at 3 in chapter approved.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:13
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Genghis Cohen posted:I agree with your conclusions from the list there - really mystified by the autarch change, as they've never made a model with any such weapon, it seems rather arbitrary, especially given the fluff is still there of autarchs taking bits of aspect kit as they progress. But I agree the weapon is good, it just restricts footslogging autarchs to a purely command role. And that's not bad, given the path of command rule and the cheap price (71 Pts). FWIW Autarchs are 77 - for some bizarre reason their force shield has a separate points cost. Still a fine unit for the bubble (plus average 2 extra command points if your warlord in a brigade), and having something that can roll into a combat and actually kill a few things if the enemy gets to your line is nice. It’s also quite easy to kitbash a glaive on - apparently me many years ago was prescient, because I swapped on the glaive from the dire avenger exarch sprue when I was building my autarch. Mind you, I also added a shuriken catupult, so I’ve been scouring my bits boxes for a suitable arm swap. I agree that in general Eldar melee units aren’t quite killy enough for the role. Mostly I’ve been using assaults to deny turns of shooting, and at least banshees are extremely well designed for that. Across the army, it basically feels like a bunch of things (Autarchs, melee aspects, storm guardians, hell even the Avatar) have one fewer attack on their stat line than they need. It was especially frustrating in the index book, because if you went over to Dark Eldar almost everything did, in fact, have one more attack. Agree on shining spears, their points drop is absurd and they look amazing now (and a definite exception to the not killy enough in assault thing). Will probably need to buy some.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:19
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Artum posted:Word on the street is that smite is indeed capped at 3 in chapter approved. What do you mean
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Oct 28, 2017 19:24
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goose willis posted:What do you mean Meaning you’ll only be able to cast three smites a turn.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:28
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That seems like a pretty arbitrary limit but OK
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Oct 28, 2017 19:28
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goose willis posted:What do you mean The solution to smite spam lists being limiting smite to 3 casts per psychic phase rather than every psyker.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:29
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Where are you hearing this from?
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Oct 28, 2017 19:31
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I'd think a less arbitrary way of doing it would be that repeat castings of the same power can still be attempted, but it gets increasingly difficult with each re-cast, like -1/-2 to the result of the psychic test, flavor it as the warp being wild and not enjoying being repeatedly used for the same thing because it's too orderly or something
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Oct 28, 2017 19:32
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goose willis posted:I'd think a less arbitrary way of doing it would be that repeat castings of the same power can still be attempted, but it gets increasingly difficult with each re-cast, like -1/-2 to the result of the psychic test, flavor it as the warp being wild and not enjoying being repeatedly used for the same thing because it's too orderly or something I think it was Bulbasaur that came up with that a while ago in here and I agree that it's a much more elegant way to go about things. GW apparently prefers the brute force approach recently though.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:39
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The problem with a number like 3 is that it doesn't scale with points at all.
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Oct 28, 2017 19:42
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All you need to do is just make cheese lists with three smite sources in 500 point games and do it so many times that Games Workshop has to address the issue
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Oct 28, 2017 19:45
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One_Wing posted:FWIW Autarchs are 77 - for some bizarre reason their force shield has a separate points cost. Still a fine unit for the bubble (plus average 2 extra command points if your warlord in a brigade), and having something that can roll into a combat and actually kill a few things if the enemy gets to your line is nice. It’s also quite easy to kitbash a glaive on - apparently me many years ago was prescient, because I swapped on the glaive from the dire avenger exarch sprue when I was building my autarch. Mind you, I also added a shuriken catupult, so I’ve been scouring my bits boxes for a suitable arm swap. Wow, that was not clear about the autarch's points cost! Wonder why they didn't list it in his equipment then? It only appears under special rules, which generally don't have a points cost, e.g. the psykers' identical rune armour rule. Autarch is the only unit with that rule, besides Yriel whose points cost includes kit - there is no reason for it to be a separately costed item. (Weirdly vexed about that, for some reason) Shining spears are a cool idea. The models, if they still sell them, are based on the old jetbikes. I don't mind them at all, but I replaced their stubby tech-lances with actual lances from a fantasy dark elf kit. If I was buying some now, I'd be tempted to do the same but use the new jetbikes kits as a base. The proper models have cool details in the design of their armour (resembles medieval tilting armour in shape) but don't look too different at arm's length.
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Oct 28, 2017 20:02
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goose willis posted:All you need to do is just make cheese lists with three smite sources in 500 point games and do it so many times that Games Workshop has to address the issue What?
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Oct 28, 2017 20:03
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Where are you hearing this from?
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Oct 28, 2017 20:10
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HardCoil posted:The problem with a number like 3 is that it doesn't scale with points at all. So pretty much like the Sisters special rules for the last million years! Perfect!
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Oct 28, 2017 20:14
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If I wanted to run Tyranids with mostly Warriors, Tyrants, and Fexes, how hosed am I?
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Oct 28, 2017 20:16
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Strobe posted:If I wanted to run Tyranids with mostly Warriors, Tyrants, and Fexes, how hosed am I? That is exactly what my friend is doing and I am keeping both of you in my heart and mind while we wait through these difficult days
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Oct 28, 2017 20:18
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Strobe posted:If I wanted to run Tyranids with mostly Warriors, Tyrants, and Fexes, how hosed am I? Fexes lack accuracy or volume for proper hits. Warriors lack damage. Tyrants are at the perfect wound breakpoint to be hosed by character rules.
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Oct 28, 2017 20:26
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Strobe posted:If I wanted to run Tyranids with mostly Warriors, Tyrants, and Fexes, how hosed am I? Just wait a couple of weeks and we will know what the codex has changed.
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Oct 28, 2017 20:27
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During games with my friend I've learned to focus fire entirely on his Old One Eye because his tyrant is much easier to take down and isn't as damaging Also I just ignore his shrikes until they get close enough that I can power-fist them to death
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Oct 28, 2017 20:27
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