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Austrian mook posted:Because I absolutely completely loving disagree in literally every way it is possible to disagree with a statement. Me too. FFX's story at least made some sense, the characters weren't poorly designed generic anime, the battle system is great, and it doesn't have a world map yet isn't completely linear.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:00
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Pasteurized Milk posted:I don't get how someone can hate XIII so much and love X, if only for how similar those two games are to each other. It really depends on how you look at it. They're very similar games but XIII has several problems that, IMO at least, make it a good deal worse than X. XIII lacks a sense of cohesion that I feel like X has. A lot of it really is as simple as having a map you can look at that shows the world and where you are in it. The places you go have a history, and you always have that old dude to tell you about it. Or, at other times, your party. The soundtrack, IMO, is also better. I like XIII's but X's is just really good. That's not to say I dislike XIII. I enjoy it, but it keeps X's linearity while removing a lot of depth from the world. I at least never got a sense of history from playing XIII like I did from X. Also, X has one of the best battle systems in the series. I think XIII does too, but if you don't like XIII's then suddenly it doesn't have a whole lot left to offer you. X was traditionally Final Fantasy enough that no one will really dislike it for being different, while changing stuff up enough that it felt fresh.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:06
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Yohan Kebab posted:Me too. FFX's story at least made some sense, the characters weren't poorly designed generic anime, the battle system is great, and it doesn't have a world map yet isn't completely linear. I'll give you story but FFX was exactly as linear as XIII for 80% of the game and are we really so far gone that we're going to look at Lulu or Tidus' design and not call them poorly designed?
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Aug 4, 2013 23:07
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ImpAtom posted:I mean before we forget, Square-Enix put out this game too. I've never played this game before, but by the end of this clip, I was laughing so hard that tears were literally running down my face. what the hell did I just watch? NAPPY TIME, 'KAY, said the robot.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:15
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Pasteurized Milk posted:I don't get how someone can hate XIII so much and love X, if only for how similar those two games are to each other. I don't, either. While both have fantastic soundtracks, X has a far worse battle system, far more laughable cutscenes (because the VAs are pretty bad), and terribly bad minigames like chocobo bird dodging, lightning strike dodging, butterfly dodging, and Blitzball which is cleverly disguised as the world's most boring underwater soccer. Not to mention most of the character designs are awful.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:15
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Yohan Kebab posted:Me too. FFX's story at least made some sense, the characters weren't poorly designed generic anime, the battle system is great, and it doesn't have a world map yet isn't completely linear. ^^^^^: How can you call X's battle system bad compared to a game where you literally don't even imput the actions. You just watch them cast lovely boring spells and jump around over and over again. In FFX you imput things and it being in real time means your actions have weight and you feel involved in what's going on. It's got the best music of the series, and I would argue that the characters are some of the best in all of video games. It's rare to see a character progress the way Tidus does and Yuna is actually one of the best female characters in that she feels very real, there's no lovely fanservice about her, at least until X-2 anyway. Wakka gets overstated and I actually like him and everyone knows that Auron is the man. The rest of the cast is pretty rad and Seymour is a fun villain because he has the audacity to be involved with the plot and do things throughout the game rather than just gently caress about at the end. Sin is a cool overarching threat and you really feel like it's something you need to combat. The level up system is pretty sweet and I get it's mostly linear but you feel the progression more than the Crysterium by it having a singular path as opposed to 3 or 5. Also each character has a single roll that's well defined and they all feel useful, Tidus is sort of the everyman, he has buffers and is a well rounded guy, Wakka is super accurate for flyers, Auron is the tank, Lulu is mage, Yuna is healer, Rikku is the theif and Khimari is whatever you want him to be. The game has some really great character moments like Wakka learning that Yuna is part All-behd. TLDR: FFX is like my favorite game Austrian mook fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 23:19
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You didn't actually play FFXIII if you're saying you don't input commands. Autobattle sets up a queue, you do have to switch to different abilities manually from time to time, and Paradigm Shifting doesn't happen on its own.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:22
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Captain Mog posted:I've never played this game before, but by the end of this clip, I was laughing so hard that tears were literally running down my face. what the hell did I just watch? A game that is very self-aware and is doing its best to cobble together every conceivable anime trope and cliche. Somebody on another forum said the 360 is known as "the otaku box". I dunno if that's a real thing or not but it would make sense.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:22
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Brother Entropy posted:I'll give you story but FFX was exactly as linear as XIII for 80% of the game and are we really so far gone that we're going to look at Lulu or Tidus' design and not call them poorly designed? I think Lulu's design (big breasts excluded) is pretty cool. Tidus looks and acts like an unlikable twat because he's supposed to. He comes to his own later in the game and he actually becomes sort of a badass. At least he's upbeat so you actually feel a change when things go bad for the characters unlike Squall who is depressed and then when things go wrong... he's still depressed.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:24
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Azure_Horizon posted:You didn't actually play FFXIII if you're saying you don't input commands. Autobattle sets up a queue, you do have to switch to different abilities manually from time to time, and Paradigm Shifting doesn't happen on its own. I rarely did anything at all and was fine. Not to mention the whole, every character can play any role thing means they are all mechanically identical, it might change later in the game tbh I didn't play XIII for very long, and I'm someone who's beaten both Golden Sun games multiple times.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:26
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Austrian mook posted:I rarely did anything at all and was fine. Not to mention the whole, every character can play any role thing means they are all mechanically identical, it might change later in the game tbh I didn't play XIII for very long, and I'm someone who's beaten both Golden Sun games multiple times. Every character is different in every role. Characters often learn different abilities, have different casting times, and different ways they use the same abilities. There are main roles and sub roles, and characters are often poor in their sub roles but learn skills that no one else will. You don't have to do much at all in FFX, either. Just press X and mash your way through the game and maybe switch out characters every now and again to press X once more.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:27
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Austrian mook posted:^^^^^: How can you call X's battle system bad compared to a game where you literally don't even imput the actions. You just watch them cast lovely boring spells and jump around over and over again. In FFX you imput things and it being in real time means your actions have weight and you feel involved in what's going on. Yeah, my favorite thing about the game (aside from the soundtrack, which is a masterpiece) is the character development. You actually get to know the characters and care about them as if they are real people. People say this about VII, which is true to an extent, but the voice acting really worked in X's advantage to humanize the characters to an extent that is comparable to some of the better works of fantasy genre literature that I've read. This is saying a lot, because X's world is so very alien and so much unlike our own, but their struggles are just so very human and revolve around identity, love, and the cycle of life/death. It's like my favorite game too, you aren't alone.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:28
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NikkolasKing posted:A game that is very self-aware ...What version of Star Ocean 4 did you play that wasn't just blatant pandering? It's a lot of things, but self-aware it isn't.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:28
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Captain Mog posted:Yeah, my favorite thing about the game (aside from the soundtrack, which is a masterpiece) is the character development. You actually get to know the characters and care about them as if they are real people. People say this about VII, which is true to an extent, but the voice acting really worked in X's advantage to humanize the characters. This is saying a lot, because X's world is so very alien and so much unlike our own, but their struggles are just so very human and typically revolve around identity, love, and the cycle of life/death. That and the game is loving beautiful, even for the PS2. This HD port is going to be special.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:29
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Azure_Horizon posted:Every character is different in every role. Characters often learn different abilities, have different casting times, and different ways they use the same abilities. I know that not all characters can learn every single ability, but do their different casting times actually matter? Or is that the level of sperg for people not using certain classes on certain characters in ff12 because their animation is 2 frames longer therefore ruining their dps.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:30
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Azure_Horizon posted:Every character is different in every role. Characters often learn different abilities, have different casting times, and different ways they use the same abilities. There are main roles and sub roles, and characters are often poor in their sub roles but learn skills that no one else will. but that's not true? That's like criticizing all RPG turn based combat. If you can't see how FFX and FFXIII are different mechanically I really don't know what to tell you.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:31
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Dragonatrix posted:...What version of Star Ocean 4 did you play that wasn't just blatant pandering? It's a lot of things, but self-aware it isn't. No, it was perfectly aware of that it was! The director shamelessly wanted to make a porn game and has admitted as much. That... isn't a good thing. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I know that not all characters can learn every single ability, but do their different casting times actually matter? Or is that the level of sperg for people not using certain classes on certain characters in ff12 because their animation is 2 frames longer therefore ruining their dps. It's a bit more important in FFXIII to be faster because you're graded on speed so it actually has an impact, but it isn't really as significant as the difference in general skill loadout is, except for maybe the crazy people who do no-Crystarium runs.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:31
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Austrian mook posted:but that's not true? That's like criticizing all RPG turn based combat. If you can't see how FFX and FFXIII are different mechanically I really don't know what to tell you. They are different mechanically, but don't pretend that FFXIII plays itself. It "plays itself" as much as FFX does.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:31
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Azure_Horizon posted:They are different mechanically, but don't pretend that FFXIII plays itself. It "plays itself" as much as FFX does. You can put down the controller and win a battle in FFXIII, you can't in FFX. How is this hard to understand?
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Aug 4, 2013 23:33
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Azure_Horizon posted:They are different mechanically, but don't pretend that FFXIII plays itself. It "plays itself" as much as FFX does. Right, which is why you saying Azure_Horizon posted:
Is disingenuous at best.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:33
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Austrian mook posted:he actually becomes sort of a badass. Now there's something about Tidus that you don't hear every day.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:33
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Do we have to have this stupid loving slapfight every three days?
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Aug 4, 2013 23:34
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ImpAtom posted:It's a bit more important in FFXIII to be faster because you're graded on speed so it actually has an impact, but it isn't really as significant as the difference in general skill loadout is, except for maybe the crazy people who do no-Crystarium runs. Right, but what is the difference in cast time? A few frames or something actually noticeable like a few seconds? edit: Genuinely curious, since I just beat ff13 and then put it down forever.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:34
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Austrian mook posted:You can put down the controller and win a battle in FFXIII, you can't in FFX. How is this hard to understand? Perhaps in the very beginning, but not for the rest of the game. Your party leader HAS to do something. And Paradigm Shifting IS necessary.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:34
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Austrian mook posted:In FFX you imput things and it being in real time means your actions have weight and you feel involved in what's going on. Except combat in FFX didn't happen in real time; FFX combat was turn based.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:34
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FF10 had stuff like Blitzball and, hell, towns to break up the monotony. If you wanted to take a break from the main game, you could do so. Also, the game actually had decent pacing. It had its slow sections, but there was usually more happening than the long-rear end section of 13 where you keep alternating between Lightning/Hope and Sazh/Vanille. Plus 10 did a much better job with world-building, as you really only watch the world around you in 13 as you run away. You really got a feel for the various different towns and regions in 10, creating a much more versatile world that's much more believable than 13, where differences between locations only feel surface-deep until you hit Pulse. 13 could've taken a few cues from 10 and would have been a better game for it.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:37
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Austrian mook posted:You can put down the controller and win a battle in FFXIII, you can't in FFX. How is this hard to understand? Not pressing buttons in a turn-based game doesn't get you very far, no.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:38
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fronz posted:Do we have to have this stupid loving slapfight every three days? Only until Final Fantasy XV comes out! CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Right, but what is the difference in cast time? A few frames or something actually noticeable like a few seconds? It can be pretty significant. Certain characters are really really slow. FFXIII is an easy enough game you probably don't notice it unless you're looking though.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:38
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W.T. Fits posted:Except combat in FFX didn't happen in real time; FFX combat was turn based. whoops, my bad. Azure_Horizon posted:Perhaps in the very beginning, but not for the rest of the game. Your party leader HAS to do something. And Paradigm Shifting IS necessary. I guess so, I mean like. Firaga is just a little ball that flies at the enemy, in FFX theres a big cast animation and flames devour the enemy and poo poo. Are there anything like the big gently caress off summons in FFXIII later on?
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Aug 4, 2013 23:38
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Mega64 posted:FF10 had stuff like Blitzball and, hell, towns to break up the monotony. If you wanted to take a break from the main game, you could do so. Also, the game actually had decent pacing. It had its slow sections, but there was usually more happening than the long-rear end section of 13 where you keep alternating between Lightning/Hope and Sazh/Vanille. Plus 10 did a much better job with world-building, as you really only watch the world around you in 13 as you run away. You really got a feel for the various different towns and regions in 10, creating a much more versatile world that's much more believable than 13, where differences between locations only feel surface-deep until you hit Pulse. I could draw a rough map of the entire world of FFX, After playing through the first while of XIII, I have no loving clue where anything is in relation to anything else. Also the combat is bad and the characters are dumb and it's a bad game. 
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Aug 4, 2013 23:40
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Austrian mook posted:I guess so, I mean like. Firaga is just a little ball that flies at the enemy, in FFX theres a big cast animation and flames devour the enemy and poo poo. Are there anything like the big gently caress off summons in FFXIII later on? do the motorcycle Shiva twins count?
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Aug 4, 2013 23:40
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Have you ever wanted to see two Shivas scissor each other and turn into a motorcycle, or for the black dude to get in a low rider and do cookies? FF13 thinks you do.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:41
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Yohan Kebab posted:do the motorcycle Shiva twins count? the only good part of XIII ^^^^: I may have to pull out XIII again...
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Aug 4, 2013 23:41
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Austrian mook posted:whoops, my bad. Firaga tears up the entire battlefield, which is why it takes up almost all a character's ATB and leaves flames behind and scorched earth. Blizzaga leaves ice chunks everywhere. Thundaga is basically Ramuh on steroids. And yes, there are summons, but are about as useful as Espers were in FFXII (that is, not much) for any given situation.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:41
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Nemdlin posted:Final Fantasy 8 Cid always reminded me of Robin Williams visually. Whenever I play his voice defaults to Williams' in my head.   http://www.google.com/images?q=ff8+cid+robin+williams
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Aug 4, 2013 23:42
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Was there any reason to ever use Eidolons in XIII other than the cool summoning animations? The only times I remember are using Vanille's summon to knock down Adamantoises so I could spam Death and maybe once to try getting more time against some boss that cast Doom on me.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:44
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that has to have been intentional.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:45
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TheWorstAtWords posted:Was there any reason to ever use Eidolons in XIII other than the cool summoning animations? The only times I remember are using Vanille's summon to knock down Adamantoises so I Eidolons function as a full revive and heal, so they make a pretty good "oh gently caress" button if for some reason your party gets nuked. That's basically their only real purpose. They give you a load of free damage and a full heal.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:45
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Azure_Horizon posted:Firaga tears up the entire battlefield, which is why it takes up almost all a character's ATB and leaves flames behind and scorched earth. Blizzaga leaves ice chunks everywhere. Thundaga is basically Ramuh on steroids. On the other hand, they're also a lot slower and less efficient than just casting regular Fire/Blizzard/Thunder which can be used a lot more in the same amount of time, and deal proportionally more damage. Even the AI knows this and will never cast anything else. If there's any fights where not using the first level spells isn't more efficient, I have no idea. At least the -agas might be good for crowd control if you somehow need it, I guess. I can't even think of why you'd bother using the -ara stuff since they don't seem to do anything different or better other than take longer for no reason.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:47
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Austrian mook posted:that has to have been intentional. I would think not, given that Tidus = Meg Ryan was unintentional but Sazh was supposed to look like Lionel Ritchie.
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Aug 4, 2013 23:48
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