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FaustianQ posted:S:76 and Pharah can do this without anything fancy besides half decent aim. Look, I'm not saying McCree didn't need the nerf in the sense that he was the best tank melter, but his entire kit revolves around mastering a not very rewarding one trick pony that leaves him helpless once played, slow as poo poo, no escapes, and no real ability to support the team. McCree needs a rework, like he has always required. He can 3 shot half the cast with M1 at midrange and most of them can't do anything about it. Top this up with a stun and an instant reload and you have a still pretty good hero.
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Jun 17, 2016 09:38
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"Pretty good" isn't good enough when there's an opportunity cost to picking him though.
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Jun 17, 2016 10:10
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The solution to the cowboy is to just ignore him or take shots at him while avoiding him cause really it's boring as hell to play as him when you're not running into enemies at close range every 30 seconds
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Jun 17, 2016 10:43
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Lant posted:He can 3 shot half the cast with M1 at midrange and most of them can't do anything about it. Top this up with a stun and an instant reload and you have a still pretty good hero. What is midrange to you, because I can assure you that his damage drop quickly forces 4-5 body shots or 3 headshots to kill someone past 20m, where someone like S:76 needs only 12-13 body shots and 6 headshots at 30m, meaning S:76 can deal with two targets, maybe a third at range, while McCree will struggle with two, and S:76 has more wiggle room to deal with just one evasive target. This also means S:76 can kill nearly any tank in the game on one magazine and Helix, he has a lot of horizontal maneuverability, and he has sustain for himself and party. His only let down is his ult really.
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Jun 17, 2016 10:45
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Yeah, McCree is pretty poo poo now. You need those headshots at anything but short range, and if you're good enough to land them you'd be doing much better with Soldier.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:01
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The McCree nerf was good, he went from stunning and rmb tanks and not thinking about it to stunning and rmb tanks and thinking about it
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Jun 17, 2016 11:11
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Then factor in that Widows only needs 8 headshots or 16 bodyshots at any range to kill a 200HP player, so Widowmaker is actually pretty flexible between all ranges, has an escape, and has the poison mine to enhance closework or a tripwire to alert you. Really, all McCree has is a lovely design inherently good against tanks that they're trying to stuff into dealing with squishies.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:12
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FaustianQ posted:What is midrange to you, because I can assure you that his damage drop quickly forces 4-5 body shots or 3 headshots to kill someone past 20m, where someone like S:76 needs only 12-13 body shots and 6 headshots at 30m, meaning S:76 can deal with two targets, maybe a third at range, while McCree will struggle with two, and S:76 has more wiggle room to deal with just one evasive target. yeah the range where you'd start thinking, "hm, this revolver is pretty handy and no longer outclassed by a proper short-range weapon" is the range where damage falloff starts swirling down the toilet
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Jun 17, 2016 11:16
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I'm very happy that mccree is bottom tier now
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Jun 17, 2016 11:27
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Zorodius posted:yeah It is kind of an easy fix though, make his damage fall off better, something like 80-60 instead of 70-35, that way McCree is good enough at range to compete but uses his FB+FTH+CR+FTH when someone tries to get close to him to either keep bigger guys away or punish Tracer or Genji like characters.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:30
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They can always rebuff his fan damage and we can enjoy peak mcree once again.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:31
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Turtle Sandbox posted:They can always rebuff his fan damage and we can enjoy peak mcree once again. Because that's definitely what is being discussed.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:38
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I want to enjoy Winston but he's very difficult to play when you solo queue. You can jump around and cause all sorts of havoc, but it doesn't help that much with an uncoordinated team.
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Jun 17, 2016 12:51
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McCree's design is just bad. Being able to delete flankers is just always going to cause balance problems even if you think just deleting a person isn't in itself a problem. Plus what good is a flanker if they can just auto-die to a solo person? They need to rethink him and design him to protect against flankers in other ways like having him be part of your deathball instead of a solo superstar. Maybe make flashbang root and/or silence for a decent time to make them easy to take down with your team there but solo they can still gun you down. Or give him a short-ranged wall-hack to warn your team of flankers. Or make him duel someone so they can only hurt him for the duration. Or make his ult shoot big damage at anyone who damages a nearby ally. Or whatever. Just oops McCree's here by himself so guess I'm just hosed is a bad idea and I don't think they will be able to balance that role.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:04
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FaustianQ posted:It is kind of an easy fix though, make his damage fall off better, something like 80-60 instead of 70-35, that way McCree is good enough at range to compete but uses his FB+FTH+CR+FTH when someone tries to get close to him to either keep bigger guys away or punish Tracer or Genji like characters. I know they added the damage falloff back in beta because McCree was too good at all ranges when they first added him, but honestly now that Fan's taken a massive nerf bumping up his primary range and damage a bit to compensate seems like a pretty fair trade. It doesn't need to be a straight-up pocket sniper rifle the way it was, but now that he's not so dominant at close combat anymore I think there's room to give him more leeway to dish out damage at range. Higsian posted:McCree's design is just bad. Being able to delete flankers is just always going to cause balance problems even if you think just deleting a person isn't in itself a problem. Plus what good is a flanker if they can just auto-die to a solo person? They need to rethink him and design him to protect against flankers in other ways like having him be part of your deathball instead of a solo superstar. Maybe make flashbang root and/or silence for a decent time to make them easy to take down with your team there but solo they can still gun you down. Or give him a short-ranged wall-hack to warn your team of flankers. Or make him duel someone so they can only hurt him for the duration. Or make his ult shoot big damage at anyone who damages a nearby ally. Or whatever. Just oops McCree's here by himself so guess I'm just hosed is a bad idea and I don't think they will be able to balance that role. All of the flankers can outduel McCree if they play their cards right, especially now. He doesn't completely obviate Tracer and Genji et al. and he never has, he just forces you to be smarter about your approach and use your mobility to get around instead of sticking to the obvious flanking paths McCree likes to haunt specifically because he knows you're going to take them. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 13:09
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Mcree is fine guys, the only thing that's changed is that he has trouble with tanks and Reapers. He's just not the end-all people want him to be. And I'd say he's still more effective than Mei for counter flanking.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:12
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3 games in a row I've got triple gold medals, and a silver or bronze. Lost two of those. 76 is too beautiful for this world.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:25
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Opposing Farce posted:All of the flankers can outduel McCree if they play their cards right, especially now. He doesn't completely obviate Tracer and Genji et al. and he never has, he just forces you to be smarter about your approach and use your mobility to get around instead of sticking to the obvious flanking paths McCree likes to haunt specifically because he knows you're going to take them. I feel like McCree could only really be outdueled if he played his cards wrong, rather than being outplayed, though I'm not going to claim that as pure fact. The worst part is that you just died if he won. With Tracer/Reaper/Genji each one can beat the other and it feels intense beginning to end regardless of which one you are. With McCree they landed the flashbang and you died, or they fanned while your defences were down and you died. Flankers are meant to blow up unaware players or weak heroes so it's fine if they take a bit of time to get it done. If you want someone to shut down flankers with damage then they need to kill immediately or the flankers get past them or take down their valuable target before they die. It's a role that makes for balance problems. If his role is to deal with flankers then I think he needs to be given different tools to do it or he'll be in an endless buff/nerf cycle. They could also rethink his role and make him better at range or w/e.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:28
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Tequila Sunrise posted:3 games in a row I've got triple gold medals, and a silver or bronze. Lost two of those. the Pugs i end up in means I am regularly getting PotG as well as 4 Gold Medals with TolBjorn
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Jun 17, 2016 13:31
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If you are protecting your team from flankers why are you 1v1ing dudes rather than letting your team (and you too) take care of them using your easy to land stun and a m1 to the head?
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Jun 17, 2016 13:37
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mcbexx posted:How to git gud with Symmetra. pro click zone
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Jun 17, 2016 14:06
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Here's an incredibly stupid question/problem: I've had the game since the day it came out and I've been playing it online with no problem. However, when I try to register at the Blizzard site, it keeps asking for a game key. There was no game key in the box, the only two codes were for a Tracer skin and a bunch of "Blizzard goodies". And I even tried both of those just for the hell of it and they don't work either. How loving stupid am I?
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Jun 17, 2016 14:10
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how do i be chinese woman
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Jun 17, 2016 14:11
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sorry, thought this was google
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Jun 17, 2016 14:14
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Here's an incredibly stupid question/problem: Either you are using someone else's account to log into the game or you have two accounts and can't keep them straight. Alternatively, you think Legend of Titan is Overwatch.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:16
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My question is: Why is Flashbang a stun at all? Why not just white out vision like every other video game ever? At least then it can either be used defensively so he can pull out of a bad engagement or use it to mindgame people; get flankers to blow their "Oh poo poo" buttons using FTH, then follow up with the flashbang and get them while they can't loving see anything.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:21
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Zarya is a monster when she gets going. On King's row defending, we lost the first point because of a triple ult: Riptire, High Noon, Self-Destruct, and the enemy got halfway down the road, but then we pushed back with excellent use of my shields and grenades. One ult from me cleared them off the cart. We pressed up and a second ult outside the hotel from me pressed them back farther all the way to their spawn. I forced the enemy team to create an an anti-Zarya composition just to get out of their spawn. (Reinhardt, Winston for double shields, Zenyatta for the healing ult, Bastion for DPS, with a McCree as well). We were already retreating back past the archway when a High Noon from a McCree who had slipped behind got me. That was a pretty good counter-comp and we only barely stopped them, although part of that was because I accidentally blew my ult with a misclick and didn't have it ready for their final push. But my high damage saved us at the last minute. 35% average energy at the end, and that time included three deaths and time spent running back from spawn. About a dozen high energy kills. I didn't get the high energy achievement yet, but someday...
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Jun 17, 2016 14:28
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QuantaStarFire posted:My question is: Why is Flashbang a stun at all? Why not just white out vision like every other video game ever? At least then it can either be used defensively so he can pull out of a bad engagement or use it to mindgame people; get flankers to blow their "Oh poo poo" buttons using FTH, then follow up with the flashbang and get them while they can't loving see anything. Tracer.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:38
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Ehud posted:I want to enjoy Winston but he's very difficult to play when you solo queue. You can jump around and cause all sorts of havoc, but it doesn't help that much with an uncoordinated team. When I'm paying attention I go flanking or loiter at the back and wait for my team to engage first -- then I use Winston's jump to overtake the front line (or come in all unexpected from the side) and land right in the middle of the enemy. Shield, M1, leap out as soon as it's off cooldown assuming I'm not dead already. My team should already be present and fighting, so they don't have to do much -- just take advantage of the chaos. It's not as effective as leading with Monkey Business, but you don't need as much team co-ordination to pull it off. And if the enemy team's on the ball and/or on voice they'll probably wax you in seconds, but I'm assuming teams of equal un-co-ordination.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:49
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honestly I never minded the damage that fanning the hammer did. I can understand why they went with nerfing that but I don't see it as the big issue with mccree the problem for me was always the flashbang stunning you in place because it made every other close range hero obsolete the second any half decent mccree was thrown into the mix. if you got close enough for him to stun you, that fight was over. at least with roadhog you have a chance to get away QuantaStarFire posted:My question is: Why is Flashbang a stun at all? Why not just white out vision like every other video game ever? At least then it can either be used defensively so he can pull out of a bad engagement or use it to mindgame people; get flankers to blow their "Oh poo poo" buttons using FTH, then follow up with the flashbang and get them while they can't loving see anything. all of the other flankers have a get out of jail free card for vision impairment tbh (genji can sword dash, tracer can rewind, reaper can literally become invincible for a few seconds, and even the flanking tanks can just jump/boost away. tracers and genjis have no excuse getting that close to mccree in the first place unless they just got outflanked tho
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Jun 17, 2016 14:51
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The assless chap finally clicked with me 
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Jun 17, 2016 14:53
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Fibby Boy posted:Was wondering since everytime I popped it it just got melted and left me looking like an idiot. Much as I tried Zarya just isn't the tank for me. The shield also only lasts for two seconds. Zarya's shields are more about giving her charge, with the side benefit of occasionally saving someone in a tight spot. They don't really provide the heavy defensive power that Reinhart or Winston can, but if you see someone in a tough 1v1 situation, such as getting hooked by Roadhog or stunned by McCree, a well-timed E could very well save them from death...as well as giving you an easy 50% charge so you can charge in as the laser cavalry to save the day. Night Blade posted:This works well right up until you're forced to play the healer anyway. It's okay to not be a healer. If your team is obviously going to lose anyway, feel free to pick someone fun and just gently caress around. It's not like Mercy is going to make a difference in the chances of a team with three Genjis and two Tracers, and healing bad teams is usually a particularly bad experience since no one helps the healer in any way. Healing is a privilege, not a right; you're never "forced" to heal.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:13
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FAUXTON posted:Either you are using someone else's account to log into the game or you have two accounts and can't keep them straight. I've never had a Blizzard account before, I created it for this game. And the other two codes I was able to use, they just weren't the game keys. I should have made that part clearer. For whatever reason I just can't tell Blizzard I own the game because there was no game key included in the box. What is it supposed to look like?
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Jun 17, 2016 15:14
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Higsian posted:McCree's design is just bad. Being able to delete flankers is just always going to cause balance problems even if you think just deleting a person isn't in itself a problem. Plus what good is a flanker if they can just auto-die to a solo person? They need to rethink him and design him to protect against flankers in other ways like having him be part of your deathball instead of a solo superstar. Maybe make flashbang root and/or silence for a decent time to make them easy to take down with your team there but solo they can still gun you down. Or give him a short-ranged wall-hack to warn your team of flankers. Or make him duel someone so they can only hurt him for the duration. Or make his ult shoot big damage at anyone who damages a nearby ally. Or whatever. Just oops McCree's here by himself so guess I'm just hosed is a bad idea and I don't think they will be able to balance that role. Genji has amazing verticality, unrivaled by anyone. McCree has none. He has no movement assistance at all. I can't help but feel that if Genji ever runs headfirst into a McCree then the Genji deserves to be horribly murdered because why aren't you utilizing all of Genji's tools? Same with Tracer. A good tracer will run circles around McCree even with flashbang because she'll never be in his range long enough for it to matter.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:23
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Opposing Farce posted:All of the flankers can outduel McCree if they play their cards right, especially now. He doesn't completely obviate Tracer and Genji et al. and he never has, he just forces you to be smarter about your approach and use your mobility to get around instead of sticking to the obvious flanking paths McCree likes to haunt specifically because he knows you're going to take them. the main problem with specific heroes like McCree and to a lesser extent Widowmaker (and to an even lesser lesser extent heroes like Bastion, Torbjorn, and Junkrat) is less their kits and capabilities in a vacuum, and more about how those kits and capabilities interact with some of the really questionable map designs present in the game McCree versus Genji in and of itself looks on paper to be at least a fair fight because Genji could approach from anywhere, but on the shittier maps, like - no, he couldn't, he'd be in one of three places and then it was a roulette to see if you got McCree'd and insta-died Tracer being ground-bound as she is actually exacerbates this problem because she pretty much must take the "obvious flanking paths" and pre-nerf McCree was just deleting her every time, assuming equal skill killing McCree with Genji or Tracer was never impossible, you're right, but it was exceedingly (in Tracer's case almost vanishingly) difficult if you were both of approximately equal skill, both because of McCree's ease of use and because of his sheer power; he's a good example of a kit that needs at least one ability to be completely overhauled before he will likely ever be "truly balanced," whatever that may mean for you Ddraig posted:Genji has amazing verticality, unrivaled by anyone. you're super duper wrong about this and it's indicative of generally poor play by your opponents or generally poor map knowledge imo EDIT: to be clear I actually think McCree is low/low-mid in terms of some subjective bullshit personal tier list, but his kit is itself inherently not balanced - either his numbers are good in which case he's overpoweringly strong, or his numbers have to be nerfed to poo poo in which case he doesn't justify picking him (and that's why I think he needs at least one ability to be completely changed for him to work) guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 15:32
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Beware the tracer doing 2 damage per shot from outside flash bang range... new meta
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Jun 17, 2016 15:49
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I'm sad that people are finally starting to realize how amazing Zarya is because that means I now have to be extra-quick to pick her before someone else does.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:04
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flashman posted:Beware the tracer doing 2 damage per shot from outside flash bang range... new meta McCree can only throw his flashbang five feet and damage falloff doesn't kick in until like four times that. The spread on Tracer's pulse pistols is just tight enough that you can comfortably deal decent damage to McCree from just outside of flashbang range, so unless you're letting him jump you in an enclosed space or around a blind corner fighting McCree as Tracer is all about dancing around the edge of that range while trying to dodge his primary fire.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:05
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Luchadork posted:I'm sad that people are finally starting to realize how amazing Zarya is because that means I now have to be extra-quick to pick her before someone else does. My partner, who has never liked FPS games before Overwatch, is stupidly good with Zarya. She nabbed an assisted team kill last night with a combination of her Ult and her M1/M2.
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Jun 17, 2016 16:07
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Luchadork posted:I'm sad that people are finally starting to realize how amazing Zarya is because that means I now have to be extra-quick to pick her before someone else does. But two Zaryas are even better than one Zarya!
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