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did you guys know that capitalism is actually the worlds deadliest ideology, as shown by this chart that ascribes every death since ancient assyria to capitalism because people were trading things at the time
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Apr 18, 2017 02:29
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Also I haven't read that book so I'm not going to argue hard but the "prohibition was worse than the drug" thesis is commonly accepted in a whole range of places and times.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:32
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Imagine if that wasn't the most boring and predictable reply possible I originally bolded that part because I am sure ancient Egypt, for instance, was worse when it came to social stratification, and I'm doubtful it was a free-market capitalist society. Why white-knight communist purges? edit: Added "for instance" to reduce the chance of pedantry Wizchine fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 02:32
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Glenn Quebec posted:I mean, I could but then people on the business end will make investment decisions based off of this data. Now, imagine doing that and it comes off wildly inaccurate and we lose a poo poo pile of someone elses (and our own money). That's why I'm freaking out. Ok, lets say I do put our numbers side-by-side and someone from HK uses it to make a foreign investment and they go woo-hoo that works great. Thanks for the accurate numbers! Now imagine the vice-versa happens and they are like holy poo poo these numbers are off and our investment tanked, Glenn, what happened?? Since you're our go-to person for the China team??? I go, oh, gently caress I don't know. Someone else WILL dig and be like holy poo poo Glenn these are your numbers from last year but HK says its theres? WTF is going on? Sure as poo poo HK is gonna rear end cover and be trying to save face like crazy so who knows what they would or wouldn't do. It's not a blame game. It's a "root cause analysis" that you are conducting in an attempt to fix what is a significant liability to your company. You are conducting a thorough investigation to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the numbers coming from China. After your investigation, you will prepare a full report detailing 1) Exactly what happened in a careful timeline of events 2) Identifying the next proximal cause for each event 3) What existing policies should have prevented these causes 4) What policies should be implemented to prevent these causes 5) Who needs to implement said policies. You will take their mistake and make it a triumph of your management.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:37
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Glenn Quebec: Is replacing them an option? What do they even do aside from staying on top of these figures, anyways? The way this sounds, the amount of baby-sitting and double-checking required going forward would mean having a second team doing their job a second time anyways
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Apr 18, 2017 02:36
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Imagine if that wasn't the most boring and predictable reply possible Citation needed. (Seriously, any hard numbers you can tie this to would be greatly appreciated.) In the meantime, here's some numbers to compete against. 4-10 million (non-famine deaths), 1.7 million, 40-70 million. Actually hell, here's a whole index. quote:"Soon, huge swathes of the world will be earning more than 2$ a day and all will be well in the world!" Sounds low, right? But this is the most prosperous that we have been in the entire history of humanity, and it's thanks to market capitalism.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:37
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As a talking point, Communism's kill count proves anyone to the left of the speaker is stupid and evil. That's the only situation I've ever seen it used in. Capitalism's kill count is like an, "oh yeah!?"
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Apr 18, 2017 02:42
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Accretionist posted:As a talking point, Communism's kill count proves anyone to the left of the speaker is stupid and evil. That's the only situation I've ever seen it used in. I'm not usually one to throw out communism's kill-count to throw all leftists under the bus, just tankies who try to stuff some of the largest atrocities of the 20th century down the memory hole while simultaneously claim that market capitalism is the deadliest ideology in human history.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:46
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Fojar38 posted:did you guys know that capitalism is actually the worlds deadliest ideology, as shown by this chart that ascribes every death since ancient assyria to capitalism because people were trading things at the time Grand Fromage posted:Also I haven't read that book so I'm not going to argue hard but the "prohibition was worse than the drug" thesis is commonly accepted in a whole range of places and times. Even if we were to accept that opium wasn't that harmful (lol) you still have the purely economic reasons why the Chinese would want to prohibit it and the incredible hypocrisy of the UK on one hand banning it on its own shores then waging war to sell it elsewhere. Instead, you get a book that tries to blame the Opium wars on the moral failings of the Chinese government for not realizing that ~actually opium is cool and good~ If you feel like it, just google the title and "critique" because most academic reviewers agreed at the time edit: here's one Wizchine posted:I originally bolded that part because I am sure ancient Egypt, for instance, was worse when it came to social stratification, and I'm doubtful it was a free-market capitalist society. And I don't really white knight them? Just find it loving rich that the man-made famines of communism are somehow far worse than the man made famines of the capitalist system LanceHunter posted:Citation needed. (Seriously, any hard numbers you can tie this to would be greatly appreciated.) and yeah you can just imagine i linked the wikipedia articles for the indian/irish famine and the death toll for neo/colonialism if you really wanna go in that direction also I can't tell if you're doing this in good faith or not but 2 AM is no time for good faith anyway
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Apr 18, 2017 02:54
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LanceHunter posted:I'm not usually one to throw out communism's kill-count to throw all leftists under the bus, just tankies who try to stuff some of the largest atrocities of the 20th century down the memory hole while simultaneously claim that market capitalism is the deadliest ideology in human history. It probably is. There's a lot of friction and churn. Lot of food and stuff, too, though. My grade school report would be, "It is an ideology of contrasts, tyvm"
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Apr 18, 2017 02:55
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Deceitful Penguin posted:If you hold this to be true, what do you feel about less than a hundred people controlling more than half the wealth of the entirety of mankind? I feel like if you find this state of affairs unusual you should probably read a history book?
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Apr 18, 2017 02:57
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Deceitful Penguin posted:If you, at one point say that "this is the most prosperous that we have been in the entire history of humanity, and it's thanks to market capitalism" you are saying that in absolute terms, we are richer than we have ever been before. If you hold this to be true, what do you feel about less than a hundred people controlling more than half the wealth of the entirety of mankind? Well I feel like the real disagreement is over how granular our characterizations should be and what they're framed around.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:58
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Nothing accomplishes the equal dispersion of wealth quite like hereditary aristocracy, amirite?
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Apr 18, 2017 02:58
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How do I mark down Climate Change?
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Apr 18, 2017 02:59
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its been a while since someone tried to set this crazy thread straight
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Apr 18, 2017 03:00
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India didn't even start its market reforms until the early 90s.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:00
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
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Apr 18, 2017 03:06
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Accretionist posted:Well I feel like the real disagreement is over how granular our characterizations should be and what they're framed around. Stringent posted:Nothing accomplishes the equal dispersion of wealth quite like hereditary aristocracy, amirite? Accretionist posted:How do I mark down Climate Change? kenner116 posted:India didn't even start its market reforms until the early 90s. Wizchine posted:Capitalism has a much longer history than any sort of organized communism, so theirs obviously a much larger field of potential horror stories to draw from, yet many of the worst examples in the last century came from communism. In the end, though, I think that the root the majority of humankind is awful, and this permeates everything, regardless of ideology. somewhere. Deep inside even Fojar
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Apr 18, 2017 03:09
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Wizchine posted:Capitalism has a much longer history than any sort of organized communism, so theirs obviously a much larger field of potential horror stories to draw from, yet many of the worst examples in the last century came from communism. In the end, though, I think that the root the majority of humankind is awful, and this permeates everything, regardless of ideology. We instinctively self-sort into dominance hierarchies. I put most of the onus on that.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:09
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Deceitful Penguin posted:and yeah you can just imagine i linked the wikipedia articles for the indian/irish famine and the death toll for neo/colonialism if you really wanna go in that direction Bengal famine of 1943 - 2.1 million deaths Great Famine (Ireland) - 1 million deaths drat, it seems that even the terrible man-made famines under capitalism (even if we are to pretend colonialism is equivalent to market capitalism) still aren't as bad as those that happened under communist systems. Hell, even if you add every single famine that happened in almost 200 years of British rule in India, you end up with around ~51 million deaths, which barely (maybe) beats what Mao was able to accomplish in a few short decades. quote:also I can't tell if you're doing this in good faith or not but 2 AM is no time for good faith anyway Oh, you're EuroGoon. That explains a lot.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:11
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Stringent posted:Nothing accomplishes the equal dispersion of wealth quite like hereditary aristocracy, amirite? Read Piketty.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:15
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zhe bu shi dnd chi shi si
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Apr 18, 2017 03:15
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VideoTapir posted:Read Piketty. Yeah, I ain't saying capitalism is good, it's just silly to say it's worse than what existed previously.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:20
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Communism under an authoritarian regime reduces inequality for everyone (in China's case it's because everything has been destroyed in purges against imaginary capitalists), but the ruling class still gets more. Even if it's ¥8 cigarettes instead of the ¥2 stuff the rest of the populace is allowed to enjoy, assuming enough has been produced. And opium wasn't illegal in the UK until 1910. You can call the decisions to start the Opium Wars greedy and imperialist, but calling it hypocrisy falls flat.
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Apr 18, 2017 03:24
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yo go back to telling funny bike stories. i would also enjoy some hosed up/horribly DIYd architecture stories
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Apr 18, 2017 03:35
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Fojar38 posted:its been a while since someone tried to set this crazy thread straight lol
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Apr 18, 2017 03:57
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Grand Fromage posted:Also I haven't read that book so I'm not going to argue hard but the "prohibition was worse than the drug" thesis is commonly accepted in a whole range of places and times. It's pretty interesting and Dikotter's arguments are not as unreasonable as some would lead you to believe. Here's a few chapters scraped from Google books.
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Apr 18, 2017 04:09
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Haier posted:I went to the bakery I usually go to get some donuts. They didn't have any, but had some cream puffs that usually own really hard. The cream they make is amazing and I will immediately buy anything they put out with that cream as an ingredient. you really glossed over the part here where you bought an entire bag of something without having any idea what you were buying
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Apr 18, 2017 04:22
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bring back old gbs posted:yo go back to telling funny bike stories. i would also enjoy some hosed up/horribly DIYd architecture stories here's a webm to tide you over https://zippy.gfycat.com/EnchantedElatedHedgehog.webm
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Apr 18, 2017 04:25
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Glenn Quebec posted:I hate HK and China by proxy. RIP Glenn. hakimashou posted:Indians have freedom. bring back old gbs posted:yo go back to telling funny bike stories. i would also enjoy some hosed up/horribly DIYd architecture stories LentThem posted:you really glossed over the part here where you bought an entire bag of something without having any idea what you were buying
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Apr 18, 2017 04:31
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Study to find out just how toxic Chinese teas are finds out that Chinese teas are indeed bad for healthy, even though hot water is present. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jt/2013/370460/ quote:All teas contained significant amounts of aluminum. Tea leaves contained from 568 to 3287 ng/g of tea. All brewed teas steeped for 3 or 15 minutes contained detectable levels of aluminum. The range was 1131 μgm/L to 8324 μgm/L steeping for 3 minute and 1413 μgm/L to 11449 μgm/L steeping for 15 minutes. Only 2 teas had levels above acceptable limits at 3 minutes of brewing but 6 of the teas had levels greater than the upper acceptable daily limit of 7000 μgm/L. Clearly letting tea steep for longer than 3 minutes is not advisable. Two of the organic green teas had levels above 10,000 μgm/L brewed for 15 minutes.
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Apr 18, 2017 04:47
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Deceitful Penguin posted:
I found Pro-PRC Laowai. That means I win the thread, right?
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Apr 18, 2017 04:57
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Look rehashing which terrible form of government killed the most civilians for the nine hundredth time is fun and all, but what we should REALLY be doing is designing an amazing looking Power Point for Glen.
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Apr 18, 2017 05:03
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Haier posted:Study to find out just how toxic Chinese teas are finds out that Chinese teas are indeed bad for healthy, even though hot water is present. there's so much good poo poo in that study quote:However, in the real world of tea drinking it is important to look at several other factors to minimize exposure to heavy metals. Every cup of tea in china is a delicious metal soup created when the metal-filled leaves are boiled in metal-filled water and then consumed from cups that contribute their own metal
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Apr 18, 2017 05:15
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Haier posted:Study to find out just how toxic Chinese teas are finds out that Chinese teas are indeed bad for healthy, even though hot water is present. how in the living gently caress do they get LEAD into their TEA LEAAAAVES I guess this means I have to stop buying loose black tea at the chinese market near me. Also, who brews tea for fifteen minutes?
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Apr 18, 2017 05:14
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Oh my god, debating about which scholars are the most basic to cite is the most freshman-year 101 argument possible, please don't let things go down that way
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Apr 18, 2017 05:17
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theres a will theres moe posted:how in the living gently caress do they get LEAD into their TEA LEAAAAVES a lot of people just throw leaves in the mug, fill it with super hot water, and then just keep the leaves in there for 2-3 glasses, so overall brewing time is like 2-3 hours im the shanghai bus driver that carries a sealed plastic thermos full of hot water and cheap green tea that has been 'brewing' for half a shift so that the thermos looks like it's full of piss from a dehydrated person
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Apr 18, 2017 05:18
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LentThem posted:there's so much good poo poo in that study quote:The drinking of more than 5 liters of tea per week may result in dental or skeletal fluorosis [4]. Mercury, lead, arsenic, and cadmium as well as other toxic elements have been found in tea leaves as described in the literature [5, 6]. Lead, arsenic, and cadmium have also been found in brewed black tea [7]. These soil and air contaminants may be directly related to the use of coal fired power plants. The use of coal in China has increased to 3.8 billion tons or about 47% of global coal consumption. Coal burning power plants supply 70% of the energy in China [8]. Pollutants such as lead and mercury from power plants are affecting the development of children, with lead resulting in significant decrease in social and average developmental quotients [9]. It makes me glad that if I have caffeine, it is from yerba mate or coffee, none of which are from China. Those lovely energy drinks here are OK at best.
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Apr 18, 2017 05:48
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Pirate Radar posted:Oh my god, debating about which scholars are the most basic to cite is the most freshman-year 101 argument possible, please don't let things go down that way How do you like them apples?
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Apr 18, 2017 05:48
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Haier posted:LOL. "Just by being in China, the tea trees will deliver you a delightful bouquet of sweet and delicious heavy metals." that study is from 4 years ago so I imagine the contamination levels are higher now...i wonder if it helps at all that i usually just buy tea imported from sri lanka or just from marks & spencer since i dont like loose-leaf tea and the only local stuff in bags is Lipton Edit: Hahaha i take lead pills to supplement my daily lead intake "The allowable limit for lead ingestion for adults is 15 μgm daily. All brewed teas had detectable levels of lead above that found using distilled water in fine china tea cups and one of the teas had 4.4 μgm/L of lead. Since tea is only part of what may be ingested on a daily basis this may be significant. Some nutritional supplements also have high levels of lead especially Chinese and Ayurvedic herbal remedies [51]. In combination it would be easy to exceed this daily limit. Chinese oolong teas had the highest levels of lead and although this is below the acceptable standard of 15 μgm/day are best avoided." LentThem fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 05:55
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