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Cleretic posted:A whole lot of people here judging characters in a fantasy setting with very different cultural and even biological contexts solely through a twenty-first century lens. Yeah let's not forget that Hraesvelgr may not have bloodied his own hands but when he had the choice to deny his brother vengeance he instead became complicit by surrendering his own eye
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Dec 7, 2020 00:31
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CYBEReris posted:Yeah let's not forget that Hraesvelgr may not have bloodied his own hands but when he had the choice to deny his brother vengeance he instead became complicit by surrendering his own eye I don't think his choice was that easy. He could have denied Nidhogg his vengeance by denying the eye, but Nidhogg would have died. It was more the choice of saving his brother's life at that moment, especially that shortly after the death of his sister. And Nidhogg's revenge was still, I'd say, legitimate at the time
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Dec 7, 2020 00:34
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Badger of Basra posted:I agree with the take that Yotsuyu is not just some innately evil crazy person but my read of the finale of her story is that remembering who she is and what she did does cause her to snap back to how she was before. The thing is that she has a moment before that where she desperately apologizes. It is only when confronted with her parents that she swaps back to "I'm going to loving murder everyone." It isn't finding out what she did or even people accusing her of what she did that changes her. It's being told she's going to be sold off again.
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Dec 7, 2020 00:39
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The Tsukuyomi fight is rife with theatre metaphor and given what everyone's said about the plot, I think after she kills her parents, she doesn't see a way out of this for herself. So she becomes Tsukuyomi to give a final act to her life, and become even to herself, the monster everyone says she is, so she can be slain for Doma's sins.
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Dec 7, 2020 01:36
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It's worth noting that even though she reverts back to badguy mode she waits for the prisoners to get out of the boss fight room without attempting to temper or kill them because at that point she is just committing suicide by WoL.
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Dec 7, 2020 04:35
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I'm making a celebratory statue of her anyways because she killed Asahi.
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Dec 7, 2020 06:15
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NachtSieger posted:I'm making a celebratory statue of her anyways because she killed Asahi. Thereby allowing for the best Ascian to take stage: Even Shittier Asahi. I'll chip in for that statue.
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Dec 7, 2020 06:22
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I do wonder what’s happening post-Garlemald. A part of me thinks they’re gonna make the WoL realize we make things worse instead of better in the absence of an Ascian/Zodiark threat, and we take a Final Fantasy Nap while time bakes into the setting to produce a new grand enemy. It seems like everything is being built up such that we’re not needed anymore. We have Fordola as a primal hunter, the Alliance is an anti-Empire force with very little ambitions, the worst problem is just Bigger Primals I guess? It’s apparent FF14 is going to stick around for a long time, but without Ascians/Zodiark there’s not an apparent counterpart to the Scions. While I’d be way down for just doing cool, disparate adventures I think SE is into fighting existential threats. World War? A new continent? I mean, poo poo, who saw the First coming? With a time jump we can revisit Primals and have hot new versions of old favorites. jokes fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 10:12
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Once we're done with Garlemald, we still have the prospect of looking into the weird sound that destroyed Amaurot. A timeskip would be cool but changing the world enough so that it feels like time has passed while also not making old content feel strange seems like it'd be difficult. After the sound though, no clue what they intend on chasing up on. It'd be pretty hard to top Amaurot and the sound though.
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Dec 7, 2020 11:06
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Mysticblade posted:Once we're done with Garlemald, we still have the prospect of looking into the weird sound that destroyed Amaurot. A timeskip would be cool but changing the world enough so that it feels like time has passed while also not making old content feel strange seems like it'd be difficult. Given Akademia Anyder implied that whatever caused the sound spread to Eorzea from the continent now called the New World I imagine they’ll move onto that plotline when they do the expansion/sequel/whatever covering that continent. Presumably there’s some sort of plan for Mercydia as well.
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Dec 7, 2020 11:40
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Mysticblade posted:Once we're done with Garlemald, we still have the prospect of looking into the weird sound that destroyed Amaurot. A timeskip would be cool but changing the world enough so that it feels like time has passed while also not making old content feel strange seems like it'd be difficult. FFXIV already had its cataclysm in ARR and it's unlikely they'll do that again unless it's accompanied by an engine overhaul meant to extend the lifetime of the game
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Dec 7, 2020 13:57
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SirSamVimes posted:It's worth noting that even though she reverts back to badguy mode she waits for the prisoners to get out of the boss fight room without attempting to temper or kill them because at that point she is just committing suicide by WoL. It's more than she deserved, frankly. At a certain point with your actions, in my opinion, it no longer matters what your intentions were. I am so drat tired of the "They did all these horrible things for the greater good!" and "It's understandable and forgivable that they did all these horrible things because of the horrible things that happened to them!" tropes.
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Dec 7, 2020 16:42
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Cythereal posted:It's more than she deserved, frankly. At a certain point with your actions, in my opinion, it no longer matters what your intentions were. No one is saying she should be forgiven or all her actions forgotten, just that they were tragic and you can see the reasons why, its incredibly stupid and reductive to read any of this discussion or the actual text of the game as that.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:03
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Edit: On second thought this won't go anywhere good, have a cat instead. https://i.imgur.com/3zZqTnL.mp4
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Dec 7, 2020 17:10
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Cythereal posted:It's more than she deserved, frankly. At a certain point with your actions, in my opinion, it no longer matters what your intentions were. Understandable and forgivable are not the same thing. But it is important because black and white morality is a rarity and because what is justified to one group is horrifying to another. (See the treatment of beast tribes in general.) Painting her are Just Evil basically ignores the role people had in creating her. She did horrible things because her choice was to do those things or live a life of abuse/be murdered and the world gave her no reason to value the lives of others over her own. She was not a good person but it turns out abusive cruel societies create bad people who must act that way to survive and who have no loyalty to the idea of countrymen who did little but ignore the abuses as long as it didn't impact them. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 19:57
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Yotsuyu is the product of several oppressive systems working in sequence and writing her off as Pure Evil Just Because ignores the roles those systems had and casts her as uniquely evil instead of actually addressing the Doman and colonial structures that turned her into that.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:07
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I think SE did really great toeing the line between making a villain be "morally grey" or whatever that hard decisions poo poo is, and having their reasons/justifications understandable. Even genocide-doers Ascians are understandable. They're not the good guys at all, or even 'fine' but they're understandable. Maybe even relatable if you can really take their perspective. It's regrettable, almost, but there's just no realistic ending for a lot of the villains other than attempting their thing and ultimately be defeated by the avatar of destruction (us). It says a lot that people try to pigeonhole the complexities of FF14's villains as "pure evil". That's kind of not really a thing, with rare exception. It's mostly just "irredeemable", not "pure evil". jokes fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 20:07
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fandaniel is looking as close to pure evil as we'll get from what we know so far. he doesn't even have the lofty ideals of the unsundered, he just wants to break stuff because it might be funny
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Dec 7, 2020 21:24
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CYBEReris posted:fandaniel is looking as close to pure evil as we'll get from what we know so far. he doesn't even have the lofty ideals of the unsundered, he just wants to break stuff because it might be funny And tbf that might change once we learn what his actual deal is. I doubt it though.
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Dec 7, 2020 21:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And tbf that might change once we learn what his actual deal is.
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Dec 7, 2020 21:53
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cock hero flux posted:i feel like he's been very upfront about his deal: he likes having ascian powers but didn't like having a job, and he's glad that his bosses all died and he's able to just gently caress around being an immortal douchebag with dark magic Relatable, really
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Dec 7, 2020 21:54
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Sounds morally grey to me
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Dec 7, 2020 21:54
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By the way I'm hype as gently caress to go on my first adventure with G'raha tomorrow I swear to God if anything bad happens to him I'm going to loving die in real life
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Dec 7, 2020 22:19
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That would be great. He gets a big arc. 5.3 comes around and he gets a new life and uniform. 5.4 comes around and he gets Haurchefaunted.
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Dec 7, 2020 22:21
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Clearly, the correct solution to the dragoon jump problem is to make all their weaponskills jumps with 5 second GCDs.
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Dec 7, 2020 22:22
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dragoon jump should allow them to leave combat for five minutes to get a burrito
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Dec 7, 2020 22:25
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Chillgamesh posted:By the way I'm hype as gently caress to go on my first adventure with G'raha tomorrow it would be funny as gently caress if g'raha died for real in 5.4 the guy's survived like 3 death scenes at this point already
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Dec 7, 2020 22:55
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CYBEReris posted:fandaniel is looking as close to pure evil as we'll get from what we know so far. he doesn't even have the lofty ideals of the unsundered, he just wants to break stuff because it might be funny And what a coincidence, he's the only Ascian I genuinely like. Amazing how much it helps having someone who's enjoying themselves.
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Dec 7, 2020 23:06
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:That would be great. He gets a big arc. 5.3 comes around and he gets a new life and uniform. 5.4 comes around and he gets Haurchefaunted. DON'T YOU DARE PUT THIS OUT INTO THE WORLD
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Dec 7, 2020 23:09
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cock hero flux posted:it would be funny as gently caress if g'raha died for real in 5.4 I'm blaming you if this happens
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Dec 7, 2020 23:17
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Jetrauben posted:DON'T YOU DARE PUT THIS OUT INTO THE WORLD Yeah I’m not ready for any of the cast to die. I can’t see it happening.
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Dec 7, 2020 23:32
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Yeah I’m not ready for any of the cast to die. I can’t see it happening. given that this is the last chapter in the storyline i think it's time for the culling to start, it's time to write the finale in the blood of ancillary characters, hail satan
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Dec 7, 2020 23:39
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So I don't think most of us want to dig into the datamined stuff, but I have been shown something that's fairly non-spoilery and will kill some time: New skill icons! Most of them, it seems, from the BLU spells. Still spoiling in case people don't like datamining. The ones I can pick out... -The two BLU spells they've been showcasing are last on the third row (from the crystal guys around the Lochs), and third on the last row (Suzaku's Kick). -First on the top row looks like a buff from Lakshmi. -Fourth on the last row is something from Tsukuyomi. -Second on the third row is definitely rockets from O11. -I know second on the last row is a boss I recognize, but I'm blanking on what. Might be last boss of the Swallow's Compass? -I'm guessing first on the last row is from the final boss of the Temple of the Fist. -Last on the fourth row... I think is something in Omega M/F's kit. -Fourth row, second icon might be from Famfrit, but that would mean BLUs can get into alliance raids, which I'm pretty sure they can't. If they can, though, then third on the fourth row would most likely be the self-destruct the Red Chocobo pulls in Rabanastre. -EDIT: A friend's pointed out that first on the third row is Seiryu. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 09:57
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Big Emerald Weapon spoiler:
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Dec 8, 2020 10:35
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so diamond is zenos, then
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Dec 8, 2020 10:41
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The P2 theme is called The Black Wolf Stalks Again and it loving rips
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Dec 8, 2020 10:44
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BLUs absolutely can get into alliance raids if you get the full 24 together in Party Finder. Getting to do all-BLU Ivalice content is gonna be the highlight of 5.45 for what a loving shambles it's bound to be.
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Dec 8, 2020 11:02
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Spoiler alert: Giott owns
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Dec 8, 2020 11:19
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Rushing the Void Quests is an unexpected but canny play
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Dec 8, 2020 11:20
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Angel Wings can be found in the Gold Saucer if you're looking.
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Dec 8, 2020 11:20
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