Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

MarquisDeSade posted:

I had this guy as my personal finance professor about a decade ago. Even then he was telling our class that buying a home wasn't a good investment and the only reason he finally bought one was because it would stop his wife from nagging him about it.

He must feel really good about his wife timing the market for him, without a finance background.

# ? Apr 22, 2015 12:59

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# ? May 31, 2024 16:38

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Oh hey that huge skyscraper hotel entirely for 70,000 "rich chinese" tourists that would flock to Nanaimo and boost their economy turned out to not happen. I'm absolutely shocked!
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/chinese-firm-expected-to-miss-nanaimo-hotel-deadline-1.1766334
Good thing the local business community and city hyped this up and pinned their hopes on it. Nanaimo offered an entire 10 year tax exemption to entice them. Clearly they should have offered 20 years. Maybe allow it to be built and staffed entirely by TFW's. Maybe let them use chinese construction codes? Please, please someone create jobs!

# ? Apr 22, 2015 18:52

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Wow just wow. This is so short sighted because nanaimo has limited land and so housing supply is constrained. How do islanders expect to have affordable housing if they don't increase supply through densification? And everyone wants to move to nanaimo for the mountains, the ocean, the fresh air, the

# ? Apr 22, 2015 19:08

Diamato: Jul 17, 2006; Everybody's got a price for the Million Dollar Man

Baronjutter posted:

Oh hey that huge skyscraper hotel entirely for 70,000 "rich chinese" tourists that would flock to Nanaimo and boost their economy turned out to not happen. I'm absolutely shocked!
http://www.timescolonist.com/business/chinese-firm-expected-to-miss-nanaimo-hotel-deadline-1.1766334
Good thing the local business community and city hyped this up and pinned their hopes on it. Nanaimo offered an entire 10 year tax exemption to entice them. Clearly they should have offered 20 years. Maybe allow it to be built and staffed entirely by TFW's. Maybe let them use chinese construction codes? Please, please someone create jobs!

Haha poo poo I remember bringing this up in the thread like two years ago I think? I was rolling my eyes daily about people talking about those rich Chinese who were going to swoop in and make everyone rich.

# ? Apr 22, 2015 19:08

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Cultural Imperial posted:

Wow just wow. This is so short sighted because nanaimo has limited land and so housing supply is constrained. How do islanders expect to have affordable housing if they don't increase supply through densification? And everyone wants to move to nanaimo for the mountains, the ocean, the fresh air, the

It's also so much closer to Vancouver than Victoria. Nanaimo should be the main economic and cultural hub of the island and eventually it will be!!

# ? Apr 22, 2015 19:10

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

that's hilarious.

BCers are just so desperate for Chinese money unicorns to solve all their problems.

# ? Apr 22, 2015 19:10

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

That's what happened in my hometown. We were always waiting on that big pulp order from China that was going to save everyone's jobs. No one figured it would be cheaper to build pulp mills in China and export the raw logs! unthinkable! Now the mill is owned by the Chinese and only operates as overflow because those pesky union workers demand such extravagances like "a living wage".

# ? Apr 22, 2015 19:54

sitchensis: Mar 4, 2009

Nanaimo could be such a nice place. It has a really charming little downtown and the harbour is actually very beautiful.

But yup, it's done everything that every other little crap municipality has done in this country: sprawled into the countryside, allowed developers and crooked businessmen to run city council, and spent ungodly amounts of money on white elephants like its enormous convention centre that is only ever used for high school prom nights. All in the hopes that somehow these useless totems will attract something like the prosperity they once experienced before the mill/mine/factory shut down.

sitchensis fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 22, 2015

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:03

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hahaha nanaimo has a convention center hahahahahaha

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:08

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hey guys everyone wants to live in salmon arm. It has the lake, mountains, clean air. Let's build a convention center and increase density so we can have affordable housing

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:10

Dominus Vobiscum: Sep 2, 2004; Our motives are multiple, our desires complex.; Fallen Rib

Not really housing, but dumb-economy related:

Come to Vancouver and break stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7X8I_4D8JE

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:14

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Salmon Arm does have a pretty awesome pie company though.

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:14

sitchensis: Mar 4, 2009

Cultural Imperial posted:

Hahaha nanaimo has a convention center hahahahahaha

If you think vancouver-itis is strictly limited to the lower-mainland, I have a convention centre in Nanaimo to sell you.

oh god please buy it pretty please please please

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:15

sitchensis: Mar 4, 2009

Something about BC fundamentally changed for the loving worse when they replaced "beautiful British Columbia" to "best place on earth" as our slogan

# ? Apr 22, 2015 20:17

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

sitchensis posted:

Something about BC fundamentally changed for the loving worse when they replaced "beautiful British Columbia" to "best place on earth" as our slogan

After years of being ridiculed about our child poverty rates and pointing out actual better places on earth to live, we changed to "Super, Natural British Columbia"

# ? Apr 22, 2015 21:15

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

So is BC haunted or something? Trying to piggypack on the popularity of that show with the handsome guys on it?

# ? Apr 22, 2015 21:22

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

triplexpac posted:

So is BC haunted or something? Trying to piggypack on the popularity of that show with the handsome guys on it?

Please spoiler this text or it might scare off chinese investment!!!!

# ? Apr 22, 2015 21:24

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Baronjutter posted:

Please spoiler this text or it might scare off chinese investment!!!!

Super, natural. 4 everyone.

# ? Apr 22, 2015 21:34

UnfortunateSexFart: May 18, 2008; ð» ððð« ð·ððð·
ð ð ð ð« ð®ð ð¾ð ð ð¡ððð

My mortgage is going down $300 per month upon renewal to ~$700. Rentals in the same area are at least $400 per month higher now. I'm feeling pretty good about being an idiot homebuyer, finally.

Especially since all the people who have been trying to sell in my building for a year finally sold. VANCOUVER CONDO FRENZY IS BACK!!!

# ? Apr 22, 2015 23:43

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Reverse Centaur posted:

My mortgage is going down $300 per month upon renewal to ~$700. Rentals in the same area are at least $400 per month higher now. I'm feeling pretty good about being an idiot homebuyer, finally.

Especially since all the people who have been trying to sell in my building for a year finally sold. VANCOUVER CONDO FRENZY IS BACK!!!

Man feels special since lower interest rates magically make mortgage renewal lower

:wth:

# ? Apr 23, 2015 02:39

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

So Target is leaving/has left Canada, but apparently is testing the legal system as they leave.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/22/realestate/commercial/targets-hasty-exit-from-canada-leaves-anger-behind.html

quote:

It obtained an order from the Ontario Superior Court of Justice granting the company creditor protection under a Canadian law normally used by businesses that need a break as they reorganize their debts to continue in business � much like Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code.

Going that route gave Target much more control over the shutdown than a filing under Canada�s separate bankruptcy law would have offered. But given that Target Canada�s parent company is far from insolvent, several lawyers representing landlords questioned Target�s decision to seek any sort of court protection.

�The creditors weren�t banging on the doors,� said Heather Ferris, the chairwoman of the Canadian Bar Association�s national insolvency section, who is representing Shape. �Other companies have left the country: You just shut down, you pay all of your debts.�

Apparently a bunch of other retailers have also left recently. What's going on? Did Wal Mart just conquer all their market or are there just not enough people and buying going on to justify all these giant chain stores in Canada?

# ? Apr 23, 2015 03:13

Mantle: May 15, 2004

Ccs posted:

So Target is leaving/has left Canada, but apparently is testing the legal system as they leave.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/22/realestate/commercial/targets-hasty-exit-from-canada-leaves-anger-behind.html

Apparently a bunch of other retailers have also left recently. What's going on? Did Wal Mart just conquer all their market or are there just not enough people and buying going on to justify all these giant chain stores in Canada?

I think Canadian consumers are too tapped out on mortgages to have any type of consumer spending. Also Target sucked here, empty shelves and limited selection of products compared to the States.

Future Shop was definitely on the way out as well up against online buying. Weak consumer spending was just the kick in the butt needed to push it over the edge.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 03:30

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

This is wrong. Consumer spending anchored inflation and growth as stated by the last mpr from the boc.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 04:41

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/business/overvalued-home-prices-could-put-new-owners-at-risk-1.3042790

quote:

Overvalued home prices could put new owners at risk
The Economist magazine estimates Canada�s housing prices overvalued by 35%
ANALYSIS10:04 AM ET
Matt Kwong, CBC News

When Hilliard MacBeth sees construction cranes rising above condos across Canada, the bearish housing analyst thinks: seven per cent.

That's the percentage of gross domestic product represented by Canada's annual investment in housing, or roughly $120 billion of $1.8 trillion in GDP.

However, in light of a recent Economist magazine analysis that tracked Canada's housing prices as being overvalued by 35 per cent, MacBeth says it's clear the world is forecasting grim tidings for Canadian real estate.

In fact, if the Economist's figures are any indication, experts warn, Canada could be facing the kind of devastation the U.S. went through when its housing bubble burst in 2006.

Edmonton-based housing analyst Hilliard MacBeth believes a housing price correction is due in Canada, and projects prices will fall by as much as 50 per cent. (CBC)
"Our bubble is bigger," says MacBeth, author of When the Bubble Bursts: Surviving the Canadian Real Estate Crash, noting U.S. investment in housing topped out at six per cent of GDP before the crash.

"At seven per cent, our exposure as a percentage of total economic activity is higher, and then we've got this nationwide obsession with buying homes and condos," he said from Edmonton.

The Economist isn't alone in its assessment. Bank of Canada governor Stephen Poloz suggested in December that the country's housing market could be overvalued by as much as 30 per cent.

The ratings agency Fitch and the International Monetary Fund also warned about overvaluation of Canadian properties.

According to MacBeth, those best positioned to weather a possible market correction would be debt-free millennials � those between the ages of 18 and 34 � still looking to buy.

Longtime homeowners 'in good shape'

"If they haven't bought yet, their best strategy is to save up more for a down payment, and wait for the housing bubble to burst," he said.

MacBeth also feels that those homeowners belonging to the baby boom generation, those between the ages of 55 and 69, "should be in good shape," so long as they've accrued healthy home equity over the years.

Read The Economist's story on global housing markets

Stephen Poloz, governor of the Bank of Canada, said in December Canada's housing prices could be overvalued by as much as 30 per cent. (Patrick Doyle/Bloomberg)
"But, there are a few categories of baby boomers who could get into trouble with retirement because they borrowed equity in their homes" for renovations, or for co-signing mortgages for their children to become first-time owners.

He projects as much as a 50 per cent drop in house prices to match current income levels.

As for who may be in the toughest position?

"That would be people who bought recently," he said. "Those in the Generation X group, between 31 and 54, who, in my research, I discovered they have the highest exposure to real estate and the highest household debt levels, as well as the smallest amount of savings" in tax-free savings accounts, mutual funds and the stock market.

Sales still hot

Canadian home sales climbed 4.1 per cent in March from February, according to statistics released last week by the Canadian Real Estate Association.

Check out CBC's interactive map of real estate prices across Canada
Stephen Poloz says up to 30% overvalued housing big risk to economy
Canadian housing prices have also risen steeply over the past decade, with the hot markets of Toronto and Vancouver seeing increases of 7.8 per cent and 7.1 per cent respectively in the past year alone.

'[A]ny downturn in housing would be felt acutely across the economy and labour market.'- Ben Rabidoux, President of North Cove Advisors
The average MLS home price index, which tracks inflation trends in the real estate sector, grew 4.95 per cent year-over-year last month. The national average sale price also rose 9.4 per cent year-over-year in March.

CREA's president, Pauline Aunger characterized the recent bout of low mortgage rates as "good news for affordability," but these low rates are also driving up demand and pushing up housing values, analysts say.

Current promotional rates are as low as 2.74 per cent on a five-year fixed mortgage.

Toronto real-estate broker Barry Lebow still remembers when rates soared to 21 per cent in 1981.

"That was nuts," he said. "But you want to know something? People still bought and sold houses."

Lebow believes a market correction now would be traumatic.

"I'm in the business and it scares me," he said. "We've got a huge percentage of the population that has never seen a downturn in real estate, including a good percentage of real estate agents. When a downturn comes, it'll be like gravity has been revealed."

CMHC not as concerned

Ben Rabidoux, a housing analyst and president of North Cove Advisors in Owen Sound, Ont., shares some of the concerns raised by The Economist, even if he disagreed with the magazine's methodology.

The Economist magazine says Canadian housing is 35 per cent overvalued compared to incomes, and 89 per cent overvalued compared to rents. (Aaron Harris/Reuters)
"Prices at record multiples of incomes with rates butting up against the zero � is concerning, as is record household debt levels," Rabidoux said.Inflated costs for buying today's homes, mixed with low interest rates, spells trouble in Canada, especially as residential investment is at the levels matching the housing downturns in the 1970s and 1980s, he said.

Meanwhile, he pointed out that employment in construction as a percentage of total employment is at record highs, "meaning any downturn in housing would be felt acutely across the economy and labour market."

For its part, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has a rosier outlook.

The Crown corporation maintains Canada's homes are only "modestly" overvalued on average, with prices outpacing income increases by about three per cent.
CMHC's chief economist Bob Dugan classified Canada's housing market as "low risk" overall for a market correction.

"Overvaluation as a factor on its own is good information," he said. "But, typically, if you're going to see market correction, you're going to see more risk factors together" such as overheating, overbuilding and an acceleration of price growth.

Dugan said CMHC will be publishing an updated report on April 30 with a summary of housing statistics in a dozen major markets across Canada.

No problem here u guys

# ? Apr 23, 2015 05:28

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Is CMHC controlled by the CPC like ministries? That's the only thing I can think of to explain it.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 05:48

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

lol

http://daily.pm.gc.ca/en/content/your-money/balanced-budget-only-way-ensure-long-term-prosperity-canadians#sthash.LykEAI6Q.dpuf

quote:

Still, the news for Canada is, by and large, good. Amid the tumult, our country remains a beacon of economic stability and security built on a foundation of sound financial management.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 05:56

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

less than three posted:

Is CMHC controlled by the CPC like ministries? That's the only thing I can think of to explain it.

Basically yes.

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/about/cogo/

# ? Apr 23, 2015 06:05

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Cultural Imperial posted:

Basically yes.

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/about/cogo/

Hahahah Jesus Christ. So I went there, and who's the minister in charge of CMHC?

Pierre loving Poilievre.

That says everything we need to know about projections by CMHC.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 06:15

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

less than three posted:

Hahahah Jesus Christ. So I went there, and who's the minister in charge of CMHC?

Pierre loving Poilievre.

That says everything we need to know about projections by CMHC.

You're doing a heck of a job Pierre

# ? Apr 23, 2015 06:17

B33rChiller: Aug 18, 2011

All I ask is that the market doesn't tank right away. I need at least a couple more years to save a decent down payment, then let the foreclosures begin. A 50% drop in price might bring prices around me to somewhere approaching something I might be able to pay off in my lifetime.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 06:52

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Shouldn't the CHMC actually operate at arms length from parliament? Like the BoC?

# ? Apr 23, 2015 12:32

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

cowofwar posted:

Shouldn't the CHMC actually operate at arms length from parliament? Like the BoC?

Sure, but PP just has really tiny arms, like a T-Rex.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 14:31

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

And a really tiny brain like a t rex

# ? Apr 23, 2015 14:56

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

quote:

shocked Alberta since recession

MICHAEL BABAD

THE GLOBE AND MAIL

Published Thursday, Apr. 23 2015, 10:08 AM EDT

These are stories Report on Business is following Thursday, April 23, 2015.

Follow Michael Babad and The Globe's Business Briefing on Twitter.

Claims rise
The latest numbers on jobless benefits paint a brutal picture for oil-shocked Alberta.

Indeed, Statistics Canada said today, these numbers for benefits under Canada’s Employment Insurance program are running up at the ugliest pace since the recession.

And it’s going to get worse, observers warn.

The number of people receiving regular benefits surged by 15.6 per cent in February from a month earlier, reaching 36,000 and marking the worst showing in the country, the federal statistics agency said.

February’s data marked the fourth month in a row of increases, and the biggest since May 2009.

That overall number includes the fast-pace increases of 12.3 per cent in Edmonton and 11.8 per cent in Calgary, the heart of the country’s oil industry.

Nationally, the number of people getting EI benefits climbed by 2 per cent. It’s worth noting that Statistics Canada says changes can reflect a number of scenarios, including jobless workers joining the program, others returning to work, and some who have exhausted their benefits.

The rise in the number of claims in Alberta was shocking, up 29.4 per cent in February. Those are people who could receive benefits.

Worse, it was the second consecutive month of a rise of more than 20 per cent, and the biggest since February 2009.

Nationally, claims rose 6.7 per cent from January.

Canadian energy companies have been laying off workers and slashing their budgets, while governments, too, cut back.

And Alberta’s jobless rate has spiked.

Senior economist Robert Kavcic expects the jobs market will continue to weaken, likely at least for a couple of more months.

“The layoff announcements are still coming, and we’re not expecting a meaningful rebound in oil prices until early next year,” he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...?service=mobile

Good morning gently caress you Alberta!

# ? Apr 23, 2015 15:14

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

PT6A posted:

Super, natural. 4 everyone.

I'm voting this thread 4 to scare off Chinese Investment! [/threadtitle]

# ? Apr 23, 2015 15:31

jet sanchEz: Oct 24, 2001; Lousy Manipulative Dog

So how many people have lost their job in Alberta since the crash began? 30 000? More?

# ? Apr 23, 2015 17:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

They're not people, so none.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 17:33

UnfortunateSexFart: May 18, 2008; ð» ððð« ð·ððð·
ð ð ð ð« ð®ð ð¾ð ð ð¡ððð

etalian posted:

Man feels special since lower interest rates magically make mortgage renewal lower

Well this is just the beginning, they'll keep going down from here right?

But seriously that wasn't my tone, it was more like "this is the first time I haven't felt like a complete gently caress up for buying a condo in Vancouver." Allow me some temporary joy because I'm sure as poo poo not selling this dump for more than I paid for it.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 17:51

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Did you folks see this one? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/downturn-pushes-debt-burdened-to-seek-help-with-financial-woes-1.3042860

CBC posted:

Randy Rigel remembers the good times fondly. Working in the Alberta oilpatch he earned $140,000 per year, and could afford lots of toys, like his prized cobalt-blue customized Harley-Davidson and the vintage Camaro he's restoring.

"You could cover everything, whatever you wanted, just kind of go in debt, get your credit built back up and everything was fine," he says. "Until, well, it just ended."

The end came for Rigel, as it did for thousands of others, in January, when plunging oil prices led to layoffs.

Rigel lost his job at a Grande Prairie pipeline company. At the time, he was trying to buy a house and had discovered some long-forgotten debt on his credit report. With no income and bills to pay, he decided he needed help.

According to Canada's superintendent of bankruptcy, 54,640 Canadians sought formal help dealing with debt in the past year using means other than bankruptcy, an increase of 7.9 per cent from January 2014.

In Alberta, which enjoyed the economic windfall of high oil prices until early autumn, the figures are even more pronounced. The number of consumers seeking the federal agency's help with their debts totalled 4,484, a spike of 25.3 per cent from 2014.

And the figures only capture those going through a formal process known as a consumer proposal, where a bankruptcy trustee works with creditors to reduce total debt, extend the time to pay off their bills, or both.

Credit counsellors busier

The figures don't include those who use the less formal approach of working with a credit counseling agency. Those organizations are private businesses and do not report the total number of people seeking help. However, credit counsellors are reporting a dramatic increase in business, particularly in Alberta.

Consolidated Credit Counseling is reporting a 38 per cent increase in clients from Alberta, comparing February 2015 with the same month last year.

Company spokesman Jacob MacDonald said high rates of household debt are driving Canadians to seek help.

"It's incredibly easy for things to go off the rails," he said. "It all comes down to the variance between what's coming in and what's going out, and if there's not a lot of space there, it's like cruising down the highways at high speeds, the slightest bump could throw you in the ditch."

According to the credit agency Equifax Canada, Albertans hold the highest levels of non-mortgage debt in Canada. Calgary is No. 1 at $28,263, with Edmonton not far behind at $26,305.

Household debt highest in Alberta

A recent report by the Bank of Montreal shows average household debt including mortgages is $124,838 in Alberta. That's much higher than the $99,835 owed by B.C. residents and the $67,507 of average debt held by Ontario residents.

While more Canadians are reaching for help with their debts, fewer are opting to solve their problems through bankruptcy. Total bankruptcies in Canada were down 5.9 per cent in January 2015. MacDonald says that's reflected in the type of client his company is seeing.

"They're not looking to go bankrupt or to speak to a trustee. These are people who can service their debts, they can make the minimum payments, but with interest as high as it is you might be paying 19 per cent on your credit card, you'll never get ahead, you'll never get out of that hole."

Another indicator that many Albertans are falling on hard times is the growing workload of bailiffs in the province.

The seizure of vehicles for unpaid bills is a financial barometer that foretells changes in economic conditions.

"That's because when people come on hard times, the vehicle payment is usually one of the first things to stop."

Low reports the number of vehicles seized by Consolidated (which is not associated with the credit counseling service) is up 20 per cent from one year ago, at close to 10,000.

Low said that's the highest number since the recession of 2009. Seizures of homes and property will likely come later, as they require court procedures before bailiffs can act.

"We're busy, we get through it. We have hired some new people," said Low.

"We recognize that increasing work for us � means there's been a personal financial setback for somebody, so we don't gloat in it and we take every care we can to be sensitive to the predicament of the debtor."

Compared to many, Rigel is in pretty good shape. After a couple of months of searching, he found a new job, which pays about half of what he used to make.

Still, that will be enough to pay off his outstanding bills and leave him debt free within a few months. He said he'll never again be seduced by the big money paid by the petroleum industry.

"No, I'll never go back again. I mean after all those years going in and then you get whacked � what's the point."

Sir, have you considered maybe not spending like a drunken sailor during the times when you do have a ludicrously well paid job? That could be a fine strategy.

# ? Apr 23, 2015 18:35

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# ? May 31, 2024 16:38

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Cmon how could you possibly expect white trash to see beyond the tip of their noses?

# ? Apr 23, 2015 18:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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