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FizFashizzle posted:It's a common belief among leftists that identity politics like gay rights or marijuana legalization or whatever take energy away from more meaningful reform movements, primarily FULL COMMUNISM NOW. I wasn't aware identity politics was now being used to refer to weed laws, usually when I hear it it's used to dismiss things that address issues that specifically aren't about straight white guys or even just acknowledge that gender, race, sexualities, etc. exist and matter. computer parts posted:A lot of those same communists were also opposed to gays because they felt it was bougie decadence so that doesn't mean they were right. Now some of them are just saying that gay rights efforts are bougie decadence so you see, progress 
Sharkie fucked around with this message at 15:42 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 15:36
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Sharkie posted:I wasn't aware identity politics was now being used to refer to weed laws, usually when I hear it it's used to dismiss things that address issues that specifically aren't about straight white guys or even just acknowledge that gender, race, sexualities, etc. exist and matter. Yeah that doesn't read very well.
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May 26, 2015 15:38
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Sharkie posted:I wasn't aware identity politics was now being used to refer to weed laws, usually when I hear it it's used to dismiss things that address issues that specifically aren't about straight white guys or even just acknowledge that gender, race, sexualities, etc. exist and matter. "Economic issues" are typically code for those that primarily effect white people. Plenty of social issues relate to minorities (e.g., the disparity of pay for women, the disparity of hiring for minorities) but are usually absent when talking about economic issues. And then you have issues that economics can't overcome, like how a black man making six figures was still harassed by the police because his neighbors reported a "shifty" individual in the neighborhood.
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May 26, 2015 15:40
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computer parts posted:"Economic issues" are typically code for those that primarily effect white people. Plenty of social issues relate to minorities (e.g., the disparity of pay for women, the disparity of hiring for minorities) but are usually absent when talking about economic issues. You might say I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative 
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May 26, 2015 15:43
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Otherwise known as a College Republican.
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May 26, 2015 15:48
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my bony fealty posted:You might say I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative Can someone explain to me what in youth compels this kinda thought? I remember unironically stating this when I was 18.
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May 26, 2015 15:49
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Gravel Gravy posted:Can someone explain to me what in youth compels this kinda thought? your dad is a republican but you get to college and one of your friends is gay and the other is black, therefore
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May 26, 2015 15:51
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Gravel Gravy posted:Can someone explain to me what in youth compels this kinda thought? College tends to expose individuals to more gay people, minorities, and drugs, but not many working class poor people.
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May 26, 2015 15:56
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Gravel Gravy posted:Can someone explain to me what in youth compels this kinda thought? You have a gay friend and don't buy into flagrant racism, but you're also mature and wise beyond your years and as such recognize the pitfalls of profligate spending. Basically, "gently caress you, Dad, Ronnie's my friend and he's cool! But anyway, can I take the car out tonight? You know I'll be responsible, I'm fiscally conservative after all!"
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May 26, 2015 15:57
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Sir Tonk posted:Otherwise known as a College Republican. Or a Cuomo Democrat! Gravel Gravy posted:Can someone explain to me what in youth compels this kinda thought? My gues: "Fiscal responsibility" in the form of slashing taxes and spending has been presented as the mature, intellectual position to hold since the breakdown of the New Deal Coalition and the Reagan era. Witness Obama bragging about reducing the deficit and cutting spending. Libertarian-populism appeals greatly to the generation currently entering the workforce, as they want to be able to smoke weed and have their gay friends get married but get mad about their increasingly meager salaries being further reduced by taxes. It's a lot easier to point at the dollars coming out of your paycheck and blame the government than it is to develop a nuanced understanding of how increasing income inequality spurred on by the tax cutters is the real reason you make half as much as your dad with twice the education. I should say that I am part of this generation and also get pissed about my relatively low salary, but then again I work for the state government 
my bony fealty fucked around with this message at 16:00 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 15:58
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:College tends to expose individuals to more gay people, minorities, and drugs, but not many working class poor people.
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May 26, 2015 16:00
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Gravel Gravy posted:Can someone explain to me what in youth compels this kinda thought? It sounds grown up. The extremes are bad, the centre is good.
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May 26, 2015 16:14
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computer parts posted:"Economic issues" are typically code for those that primarily effect white people. No it isn't typically that at all. Social and economic justice are two parts of the same whole. The fact that African-Americans are disproportionately likely to be poor is a symptom of racism, but it also reduces their ability to participate fully in society (e.g. with respect to the ability to engage in political activism). To the point of the democratic primary, historically free trade agreements have contributed to reduced economic opportunity, especially to those already disadvantaged. Hillary is a big proponent of those agreements. She fought hard and continues to fight for them. So on the social side Hillary might be "okay" or even "good," she works hard to counter whatever effects her efforts there have by loving up economically. Economic issues affect everybody, and most especially those who are already disadvantaged socially or economically. Hillary isn't a friend of that latter group. A vote for her is a vote for nice sounding words and dangerously negative actions.
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May 26, 2015 16:36
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Feather posted:No it isn't typically that at all. Social and economic justice are two parts of the same whole. The fact that African-Americans are disproportionately likely to be poor is a symptom of racism, but it also reduces their ability to participate fully in society (e.g. with respect to the ability to engage in political activism). And I gave an example later on in that post of an African American who wasn't economically disadvantaged but was still socially disadvantaged.
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May 26, 2015 16:37
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Cugel the Clever posted:
Actually he wouldn't. It's pretty simple, people who are impossible to elect aren't better at anything. Neeksy posted:I'd replace it with "should", in this case. Considering that report that came out about the US barely being a democracy, with voter opinion having no correlation to policy results, popularity of a candidate and their proposals is a symbolic gesture. This is bullshit. Claims that policy doesn't match voter opinion tend to ignore that the public at large has a whole bunch of dumb ideas in conjunction with good ideas, so you have people who care more about bashing gays and owning 20 guns than they care about having health care. You can't just look at say "60% of Americans want free health care" and ignore that a huge chunk of that also refuse to vote for anyone who might possibly take away guns in their fever dreams of persecution.
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May 26, 2015 16:38
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Nintendo Kid posted:
Well obviously Bad Ideas should be ignored but Good Ideas have to be adhered to. e: I legitimately wish someone would run a poll with the phrasing "if there was no change in taxes or spending for any other programs, would you support ________" just to see the absolute best case scenario for support.
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May 26, 2015 16:40
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FizFashizzle posted:
... that's a very strange statement, given that Ms. Keller is a famous advocate for suffrage. https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/keller-helen/works/1910s/13_10_17.htm Marijuana counted as identity politics given that it was banned because it was identified with mexicans.
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May 26, 2015 16:46
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It's simple. Republicans are squares and Libertarians are assholes, but Democrats are fags. Therefore, the only way to be a cool right winger is to say you're fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
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May 26, 2015 16:47
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I'm going to say of all candidates for GOP, George Pataki will be the first to fall
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May 26, 2015 17:04
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I'm going to say of all candidates for GOP, George Pataki will be the first to fall Not before his official announcement this Thursday though!
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May 26, 2015 17:05
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computer parts posted:And I gave an example later on in that post of an African American who wasn't economically disadvantaged but was still socially disadvantaged. And that is completely irrelevant to the portion of my post you quoted.
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May 26, 2015 17:06
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Warcabbit posted:... that's a very strange statement, given that Ms. Keller is a famous advocate for suffrage. I've realized lately that if someone is going to have some bullshit made up politically about them it's usually a woman. The example being most suffragettes basically.
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May 26, 2015 17:37
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SirKibbles posted:I've realized lately that if someone is going to have some bullshit made up politically about them it's usually a woman. The example being most suffragettes basically. A woman or a person of color. Did you know MLK, Jr. would be a Republican in today's climate?  I can't wait for 20, 30 years from now when Stonewall becomes a breakthrough moment for queer people fighting for Republican values against the oppressive policies of Big Government. Then again, maybe us gays will still be too icky to fully co-opt.
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May 26, 2015 17:43
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Liz's boyfriend on 30 rock was socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Wrap your head around that.
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May 26, 2015 17:45
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Liz's boyfriend on 30 rock was socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Wrap your head around that. So's the Pope.
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May 26, 2015 17:53
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That's actually kind of easy to envision, if you look at some strains of American populism which were/are heavily entrenched in racism and sexism. Not even just American populism, I would also argue it is/was a big thing in Europe too. Jobs, healthcare and support for good, God-fearing, deserving white folk, the rest shouldn't even be in my city/state/country.
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May 26, 2015 17:55
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Kor posted:Then again, maybe us gays will still be too icky to fully co-opt. They should stop voting against their economic interests - only the republicans will fight to protect them from the regressive marriage tax penalty.
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May 26, 2015 17:56
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Liz's boyfriend on 30 rock was socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Wrap your head around that. Mike Huckabee
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May 26, 2015 18:06
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Liz's boyfriend on 30 rock was socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Wrap your head around that. Dixiecrats
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May 26, 2015 18:07
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Looking pretty nice today in Waterfront Park. 
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May 26, 2015 18:16
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I don't even know why Pataki is running. He's been out of office for almost a decade now, was not even very popular when he left office, and he's ancient. Why waste your time/money?
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May 26, 2015 18:21
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Fashion guide for this afternoon's announcement.
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May 26, 2015 18:23
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What time is the campaign kickoff and will there be a livestream?
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May 26, 2015 18:25
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Raskolnikov38 posted:What time is the campaign kickoff and will there be a livestream? 5PM EDT, yes
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May 26, 2015 18:26
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Raskolnikov38 posted:What time is the campaign kickoff and will there be a livestream? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I7LbQFmj9A
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May 26, 2015 18:26
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  Have we reached peak Bernie yet
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May 26, 2015 18:28
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I love Bernie, but man, sometimes it really is like a stereotypical folksy grandpa trying to run a campaign. I know this kind of stuff can be super kitschy just as a general rule, but c'mon dude.
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May 26, 2015 18:30
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Raskolnikov38 posted:
Someone change "Honk" to read "Post" please.
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May 26, 2015 18:30
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Have we reached peak Bernie yet Not until Jan 20, 2024
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May 26, 2015 18:31
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Have we reached peak Bernie yet Peak Bernie was yesterday. Also, 
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May 26, 2015 18:32
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