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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I find it doubly unsettling because the guy clearly was mentally disturbed. It’s easy to write him off as a monster but how should society deal with these people? Could some program of therapy saved him? This seems, at least from a distance, to be a perfect example of the "mask of sanity", in that he could pass as a normal person most of the time, but in certain circumstances, that mask would slip. While it seems clear that everyone involved knew that, if sufficiently provoked, he was capable of anything, he was such a proficient manipulator that the trail of wreckage he left in his wake was just inside the line of being legal (his addiction-fuelled drug thefts aside). As for how society should deal with someone him before he escalates, well...I'm not sure there's a good answer to that. He was quite adept at winning trust and, as the story shows, successfully driving a wedge between his victim and anyone who tries to talk sense into them. His true nature only emerged after he had some kind of leverage over them, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that the last relationship's basic outline was repeated to varying degrees with everyone else he set his sights on. The question then boils down to "how do you keep someone from falling for a person who will hurt them", and if you could give a good answer to that, well, I bet you could make billions selling the secret.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:04
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Also please tell me
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Oct 17, 2017 22:07
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Azathoth posted:The only way that any kind of treatment works for someone like that is if they truly want to change and are willing to do the difficult, often painful, work that true change requires. Even if, by some mechanism, he was forced into a program, it seems highly likely that he would simply do and say what was required to get out of the program successfully before reverting to his old behavior once he was out. If I'm remembering my Psych 101 and Abnormal Psych correctly, this is exactly what makes people with psychopathic tendencies hard to treat. They're so good at playing the game that it's difficult even for professionals to know if they've truly improved or not.
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Oct 17, 2017 22:40
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:If I'm remembering my Psych 101 and Abnormal Psych correctly, this is exactly what makes people with psychopathic tendencies hard to treat. They're so good at playing the game that it's difficult even for professionals to know if they've truly improved or not. People with abnormal internal perceptions and/or very little or no intrinsic empathy may have difficulty even making accurate observations about themselves. It's always worth remembering that thousands of generations of neural hard-wiring is what makes us what we are and how we (usually mostly) function as social animals. We're barely scratching the surface of figuring out how these mechanisms can malfunction and what to do about them. I must be half-remembering out-of-date information, because I can't find any current articles discussing the issue, but psychopathy at least was an under-researched phenomena even within psychology, because it appeared to be relatively rare (though newer research indicates it may affect about %1 of the population and may actually be advantageous in dealing with other people, though I guess in hindsight that may be obvious). It's still considered a fairly fringe topic of study, which complicates matters even beyond the fact that you're studying a segment of the population whose brains work in a subtly different and usually manipulative way. Similarly, consider the issue of studying pedophilia. For obvious reasons, almost no one wants to touch the issue, and yet where does that leave us? Some people are apparently predisposed to pedophilia, but many (probably most) try not to act on these impulses...only to find there is no research and no help available to them. It's a disturbing problem that's complicated by how inherently repulsive the concept is; I've known several people who were abused as children, and it's hard for me to extend the necessary empathy to people suffering from these impulses, but it will probably be necessary for society to do so if they're ever to be understood, get help, and reduce their impulses to harm children in turn. Also, as many articles will point out, not all abusers are pedophiles, not all pedophiles are abusers. Like the issue of trying to study psychopathy, where an individual may misread their own emotions and may be able to turn their empathy on and off like a switch, it is a hosed up problem and it's not yet clear what can be done about it. Ironically, clinical psychology is kind of depressing. Shady Amish Terror has a new favorite as of 23:24 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 23:21
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It's not about the character of any of the family involved that were taken in by his act, as the ones that struck me most clearly as Orange County Wealth were the older daughters who hated him instantly. It comes through more in the first ep where so much of the focus on what was off about him were things like "his clothes are tacky, he eats fast food a lot" rather than more glaring examples like a doctor claiming to have killed five people in Iraq. No one deserves to be in an abusive relationship, but that suspicions were raised more by snobbery than the pile of obvious lies even to the people that saw through his act is just something else.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:24
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tower time posted:It's not about the character of any of the family involved that were taken in by his act, as the ones that struck me most clearly as Orange County Wealth were the older daughters who hated him instantly. It comes through more in the first ep where so much of the focus on what was off about him were things like "his clothes are tacky, he eats fast food a lot" rather than more glaring examples like a doctor claiming to have killed five people in Iraq. No one deserves to be in an abusive relationship, but that suspicions were raised more by snobbery than the pile of obvious lies even to the people that saw through his act is just something else. You're twinkie-defensing the hell out of this. It wasn't "his clothes are tacky", it was "he wore ratty scrubs to a black-tie dinner". It wasn't "he ate fast food", it was "he was supposed to be going to his office and instead went to a bunch of different places, including fast-food restaurants".
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Oct 17, 2017 23:30
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Similarly, consider the issue of studying pedophilia. For obvious reasons, almost no one wants to touch the issue, and yet where does that leave us? Some people are apparently predisposed to pedophilia, but many (probably most) try not to act on these impulses...only to find there is no research and no help available to them. It's a disturbing problem that's complicated by how inherently repulsive the concept is; I've known several people who were abused as children, and it's hard for me to extend the necessary empathy to people suffering from these impulses, but it will probably be necessary for society to do so if they're ever to be understood, get help, and reduce their impulses to harm children in turn. Also, as many articles will point out, not all abusers are pedophiles, not all pedophiles are abusers. A lot of people banged up for possession of indecent images aren't even paedophiles or child abusers. Victims of abuse often do become abusers themselves, but there are many among those who don't who still seek out child porn - not because they enjoy it, but because they don't. On some level they think this is a fault in themselves, because they know adults are aroused by kids, so they look to try and find what they're missing. They're literally thinking "Why am I not normal like the people who abused me?"
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Oct 17, 2017 23:41
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Jedit posted:A lot of people banged up for possession of indecent images aren't even paedophiles or child abusers. Victims of abuse often do become abusers themselves, but there are many among those who don't who still seek out child porn - not because they enjoy it, but because they don't. On some level they think this is a fault in themselves, because they know adults are aroused by kids, so they look to try and find what they're missing. They're literally thinking "Why am I not normal like the people who abused me?" I'd suppose that the fact that this wouldn't be immediately culturally obvious to someone definitely helps to underline how taboo even trying to understand the issue is.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:44
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I read this quite a while ago, it still resonates, because they clearly never learnt anything from it. What's worse is that it's still going on, the judgement for damages was only last year.
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Oct 18, 2017 02:05
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Basticle posted:I know Polybius has beeen posted several times in this thread or the last one but heres an incredibly in-depth uh...long form video article? about it. Definately worth the watch. Retro Ahoy is a wonderful YouTube channel dedicated to gaming history and evolution. The format you're thinking of is video essay.
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Oct 18, 2017 07:12
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The ending to Dirty John gave me a strong sense of deja vu but I definitively knew that I hadn't heard of this case before. But it seemed super familiar and I finally got it. When I was younger I watched an episode of a true crime show (I want to say 48hours but I can't find anything) about a man who hires a "hitman" to kill his wife. He drops by the house, lets the guy in and turns on the alarm. When she walks through the house the hitman starts beating her repeatedly in the head with a hammer. Meanwhile she's biting the poo poo out of him in the hopes that the police will be able to identify the person she assumes will be her killer by the bitemarks. However, she somehow gets the upper hand and chokes the guy out. http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/08/17/a-hit-man-came-to-kill-susan-kuhnhausen-she-survived-he-didnt/ Three things got edged into my brain. 1. Holy poo poo lady you are strong. 2. The hitman's surprised exclamation of "You're strong.". 3. How absolutely devastated and guilt-ridden she was by the fact that she had to kill someone else to stay alive. http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/06/portlander_who_hired_hitman_to.html Her ex died a couple of years ago so at least she can rest a little easier 
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Oct 18, 2017 08:38
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Sarcopenia posted:The ending to Dirty John gave me a strong sense of deja vu but I definitively knew that I hadn't heard of this case before. But it seemed super familiar and I finally got it. Hitman hosed up. ER nurses have Hulk Level strength.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:09
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I'm a Swede she's a Swede. Does this mean I'll get cut up by Danes op
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Oct 18, 2017 19:45
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Oct 18, 2017 20:04
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Solice Kirsk posted:California is full of out of touch rich idiots. Orange County even more than usual.
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Oct 19, 2017 00:23
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Cat Army
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Proteus Jones posted:Hitman hosed up. ER nurses have Hulk Level strength. Reminds me a little of this story: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93267&page=1 Synopsis: Man sexually assaults woman. Does not go well for him.
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Oct 19, 2017 00:29
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MightyJoe36 posted:Reminds me a little of this story: It sucks that she had to go through that at all. That being said... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
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Oct 19, 2017 00:39
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quote:Physicians attempted to reattach Williams' testicles and the attempt was unsuccessful, according to a hospital spokesman. Harsh but fair.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:50
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Read that Dirty John article and holy poo poo that ending. Man her daughter was seriously kick rear end there. It is always hard to figure out how people react to something like that, and there isn't a "right" or "wrong" way. Not everyone thinks to fight back and fight or flight is a serious thing, but hearing back about people fighting back is awesome. Also major huge loving props to the 14 year old who ran down there to help while everyone else did poo poo all. That girl is seriously a loving hero. John seemed like a broken figure filled with fake bravdo and confidence and the way he treated others show him for a what a sociopath he was. There is some kind of hollywood ending in the way the story ended with him, but good on Terra for fighting back
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Oct 19, 2017 04:17
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MightyJoe36 posted:Reminds me a little of this story: Holy poo poo what a lede lmao
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Oct 19, 2017 05:10
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MightyJoe36 posted:Reminds me a little of this story: That's some  poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2017 12:12
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That's what it sounded like, for sure!
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Oct 19, 2017 16:56
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CommissarMega posted:That's what it sounded like, for sure! Yoink yoink
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Oct 19, 2017 18:15
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After Dirty John, I feel like this thread could use another story of love and lies with a much happier ending.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:03
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Besesoth posted:After Dirty John, I feel like this thread could use another story of love and lies with a much happier ending. 
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Oct 19, 2017 19:27
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Besesoth posted:After Dirty John, I feel like this thread could use another story of love and lies with a much happier ending. Alan creepy to the end. quote:Alan added that he no longer uses fake identities, and has since met someone special, he said, on Twitter: “A European lady, younger than me, younger than Emma.” There is someone out for there for everyone, he added. “I don’t consider myself to be particularly good-looking ... I’m not a David Beckham, or a Tom Cruise, or an Adem Guzel.” But the thing about Emma and Adem is pretty darn cool. "Hey Turkish model guy: this doughy old bald guy is using your identity online and tried to catfish me." Who knew?
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Oct 19, 2017 21:49
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I was cringing that she didn't just sever with allan, he still had such pull/control over her that she felt obliged to keep communicating well after the cat was out of the bag, then meeting in person for "closure". I've read enough of the E/N breakup thread to know this desire for "closure" is super toxic and bad.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:52
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Baronjutter posted:I was cringing that she didn't just sever with allan, he still had such pull/control over her that she felt obliged to keep communicating well after the cat was out of the bag, then meeting in person for "closure". I've read enough of the E/N breakup thread to know this desire for "closure" is super toxic and bad. Yeah he was totally pining for her the entire time. It's hard when women don't understand how men often interpret "being nice" as "being interested". Just like their different takes on that long walk. Emma thought it was a great talk to get everything out in the open and move on. Alan thought it was a date.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:56
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Aleph Null posted:Yeah he was totally pining for her the entire time. It's hard when women don't understand how men often interpret "being nice" as "being interested". Just like their different takes on that long walk. Emma thought it was a great talk to get everything out in the open and move on. Alan thought it was a date. It was extremely damning and pathetic that he had to lie and "hint" that they hosed after.
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Oct 20, 2017 04:15
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Besesoth posted:After Dirty John, I feel like this thread could use another story of love and lies with a much happier ending.
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Oct 20, 2017 04:24
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This is one from my area. I was there for his arraignment. http://okcfox.com/news/local/oklaho...two-weeks-later TL:DR - Man released from psychiatric custody and is not supervised at all. In fact the halfway house he was supposed to check in at doesn't even exist. He then moves in with his sister who leaves him alone with a baby and he beats the baby up. Everybody is pointing fingers trying to figure out why he was released against the recommendations of his psychiatric care team. Untrustable has a new favorite as of 11:47 on Oct 11, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2017 08:37
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Untrustable posted:This is one from my area. I was there for his arraignment. 
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Oct 20, 2017 08:44
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Untrustable posted:This is one from my area. I was there for his arraignment. The other day I thought of that mentally ill dad who threw his daughter off a bridge because he thought she was possessed. It has been posted here before but I'll post it again. http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/features/the-long-fall-of-phoebe-jonchuck/ And then that reminded me of an Australian man who threw his daughter off a bridge to spite his ex wife. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/31/of-girl-thrown-from-bridge-by-father-could-not-have-been-predicted Here's an episode of "Crimes That Shook Australia". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8UWZ6a9Bvw And then this extremely baffling excalation. Text argument with the father of her children drives mother to kill her infant son. http://www.wtae.com/article/community-holds-rally-for-family-with-two-cancer-patients/13055808
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Oct 20, 2017 09:31
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Sarcopenia posted:And then this extremely baffling excalation. Text argument with the father of her children drives mother to kill her infant son. This is an article about cancer patient fundraising
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Oct 20, 2017 14:52
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It might be this story? Seems like the right area (WTAE is a Pittsburgh station). The woman sounds like a sociopath - just no concept of the value of human life.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:03
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lovely forensic "science", it's not just for the USA anymore. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/motherisk-hair-testing-families-1.4360577
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Oct 20, 2017 20:05
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Australian parents jumping off bridges with children: was looking for this story, had to page through results for this story.  Suicide needs to be a solo enterprise if necessary. Solo. Alone.
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Oct 20, 2017 23:12
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Not strictly on topic, but if anyone wants thematic background noise/video to put on your TV or monitor, Hulu has a new Haunted Screens channel. (As far as I can tell, there's no actual plot content, just atmosphere.)
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Oct 21, 2017 01:21
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Aesop Poprock posted:This is an article about cancer patient fundraising  Besesoth posted:It might be this story? Seems like the right area (WTAE is a Pittsburgh station). The woman sounds like a sociopath - just no concept of the value of human life. Contractors have found a secret basement in a guesthouse formerly owned by Joseph Fritzl. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...96.html#gallery
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Oct 21, 2017 13:26
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Sarcopenia posted:Holy moly. What a mess. To add to this, here's a grandmother who threw her granddaughter off of a 50-ft skywalk to get back at her son-in-law for getting her daughter pregnant out of wedlock
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Oct 22, 2017 02:16
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