Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

I'm the budget constraints.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

guts and bolts
May 16, 2015

Have you heard the Good News?
I think there's a way to deliver interesting banter and conversation relating to strategies and gimmicks while also just touching on general Star Wars topics in like a 30min/episode format. If I knew more about how to produce content in a professional manner I'd probably try it myself, but that seems like a cultivated skill (and probably also requires a mic better than my steelseries headset).

The Gate posted:

The S&V not being in on Soontir by wave 4 speaks volumes fit how terrible they are. Soontir was a powerhouse from wave 2 all the way to now.

I wasn't playing then, but I have people in chats I talk to who were. Their answers w/r/t Soontir ran the gamut from "was immediately identified as amazing" to "wasn't very good until Autothrusters."

Slab Squatthrust
Jun 3, 2008

This is mutiny!
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/11/10/a-champions-perspective-x-wing-tm-pt-1/

Rick plays (well, played, he's not into X-Wing much any longer) at our shop. Soontir was his jam, and PtL Soontir was amazing. Anyone who says Soontir was bad prior to autothrusters simply wasn't playing him well.

Edit: I don't know if anyone in our shop actually beat him with that list back then. It was good, and Yorr was completely unheard of at the time.

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

The only time I beat him was when he blanked on evade and I rolled 4 hits with HLC.

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

Otisburg posted:

This may seem like a troll post but it is not, he is correct.

There are no X-Wing podcasts that are really edifying based on the ones I've tried to listen to, and even as someone who plays this at least twice a week when I get the chance: Listen to Dan Carlin talk about the Ostfront or the Munster Anabaptist Rebellion instead. We all love this game but give your ears a break from reedy-voiced dorks telling you what you already know about it.

I love Dan Carlin, but he releases one episode every couple of months and I have a daily 1.5 hour commute. With that much listening time you tend to run out of the good stuff and have to scrape the bottom of the barrel. I will check out Criminal though, it looks interesting.

On to a non-bad podcast topic, I finally got Most Wanted. How's this for a first Scum list:

Kath Scarlet (Scum) (38)
Predator (3)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Inertial Dampeners (1)

Kavil (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Blaster Turret (4)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Total: 99

I'm undecided between Recon Specialist and K4 on the Firespray. I figure with Kath's improved rear end shooting I can force some bumps with my greens while getting free target locks, but I do love my Recon Firesprays.

Weirdneal
Jan 2, 2010

Ojetor posted:

I love Dan Carlin, but he releases one episode every couple of months and I have a daily 1.5 hour commute. With that much listening time you tend to run out of the good stuff and have to scrape the bottom of the barrel. I will check out Criminal though, it looks interesting.

On to a non-bad podcast topic, I finally got Most Wanted. How's this for a first Scum list:

Kath Scarlet (Scum) (38)
Predator (3)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Inertial Dampeners (1)

Kavil (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Blaster Turret (4)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Total: 99

I'm undecided between Recon Specialist and K4 on the Firespray. I figure with Kath's improved rear end shooting I can force some bumps with my greens while getting free target locks, but I do love my Recon Firesprays.

Predator and K4 are redundant on Kath. And K4 is better.
Add Engine Upgrade to swing around her rear arc instead of dampeners.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Weirdneal posted:

Predator and K4 are redundant on Kath. And K4 is better.
Add Engine Upgrade to swing around her rear arc instead of dampeners.

It's not necessarily redundant to have both any more than it is to have a Fire Control System on IG88-B, K4 is a great crew but does restrict your movement options. That said I strongly agree with Engine Upgrade on the Firespray in general, not just Kath.

I like Kavil but I think he's actually the weak link there. Left to my own devices I'd probably drop him for a couple more Binayre's if you have the spare Headhunter models and use the leftover points to trick Kath out a bit more. If you go with the K4 then she can get a lot of mileage out of EU + Push the Limit...use a green maneuver for a target lock, take an action for a focus, PtL for an evade.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Kavil will be better once he has a 3-4 dice turret that doesn't require a focus to actually fire, doesn't require him to get a K4 to actually modify his dice and doesn't force him to not fire out of arc if he gets bumped. Bring on the dorsal.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Tekopo posted:

Kavil will be better once he has a 3-4 dice turret that doesn't require a focus to actually fire, doesn't require him to get a K4 to actually modify his dice and doesn't force him to not fire out of arc if he gets bumped. Bring on the dorsal.

I mean I like Kavil and I've had a bunch of success running him with Blaster Turret/R4 Agromech, he's just not my first pick for a wingmate for Kath. With her in particular trying to line up sweet rear arc shots I think she benefits more from having a swarm of blockers to help set things up for her.

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

Weirdneal posted:

Predator and K4 are redundant on Kath. And K4 is better.
Add Engine Upgrade to swing around her rear arc instead of dampeners.

Oh yes of course :doh: I originally had Recon Specialist then decided to try out K4 at the last minute and missed the overlap.

Gonna go with this after reading the feedback:
Kath Scarlet (Scum) (38)
Push the Limit (3)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Glitterstim (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Total: 99

Unfortunately I don't have any scum ships besides these four and a HWK, so I'm kinda limited in what I can field.

Brunas
Nov 5, 2012

So after the Inquisitor comes out, anyone have a good argument for running Vader? Inq fixes the main problem of getting eaten alive by TLTs, and for 4 points cheaper. Less damage output, better action economy.

"Standard" Inquisitor:
The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 31

"Standard" Vader:
Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 35

If we end up getting an FAQ that makes sense for the inquisitor w.r.t. autothrusters then I don't see any reason to run Vader, but it looks like he's not going to shut down autothrusters for now. Anyone have moderate experience with other Vaders, such as Lone Wolf or Stealth Device? TAP seems like the ship the Advanced should have been, I don't see much reason to run Advanceds anymore, which is disappointing.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Brunas posted:

So after the Inquisitor comes out, anyone have a good argument for running Vader? Inq fixes the main problem of getting eaten alive by TLTs, and for 4 points cheaper. Less damage output, better action economy.

"Standard" Inquisitor:
The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 31

"Standard" Vader:
Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

If we end up getting an FAQ that makes sense for the inquisitor w.r.t. autothrusters then I don't see any reason to run Vader, but it looks like he's not going to shut down autothrusters for now. Anyone have moderate experience with other Vaders, such as Lone Wolf or Stealth Device? TAP seems like the ship the Advanced should have been, I don't see much reason to run Advanceds anymore, which is disappointing.

PS11 motherfucker do you speak it. Also the extra die. Which is always a crit.

The Inquisitor has his place but it's hugely exaggerating to say that it's Vader's.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Sushi in Yiddish posted:

Yeah, I would really dig a podcast version of the "let us read you terrible star wars books" thread.

Call it I'm so tired of these star wars!

Ideally a Dollop-type thing with a total newbie reacting to all the insane EU stuff. Like that RLM video of them reading the Wookieepedia page on Darth Vader's suit.

Brunas
Nov 5, 2012

thespaceinvader posted:

PS11 motherfucker do you speak it. Also the extra die. Which is always a crit.

The Inquisitor has his place but it's hugely exaggerating to say that it's Vader's.

I've been running VI Vader in about every game for the past few months, and as far as I remember VI on Vader has made a difference only in games against Whisper. The only other PS9+ out there are Poe, Fel, and Whisper. You aren't reliably hitting Fel with Vader even at range 1 (it's like 35% chance to do damage at all at range 1, <10% at range 2+), and you shouldn't need VI to guess where Poe is going to land.

Forgot to mention, Vader doesn't get an extra die over the inquisitor unless he's at range 1 where you're at high risk for blocking.

This isn't a knock against Vader, the inquisitor just seems to do everything I want Vader to do for cheaper, so I'm trying to see if there's a reason to continue running Vader

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Isn't the Inquisitor only PS8?

edit: i think the Inquisitor is really cool

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Brunas posted:

This isn't a knock against Vader, the inquisitor just seems to do everything I want Vader to do for cheaper, so I'm trying to see if there's a reason to continue running Vader

Higher PS, built-in action economy without any drawback, another point of hull?

On the other hand, I like the Inquisitor's dial better.

I think they both fill a niche and while he might replace him in some builds, he won't completely obliterate Vader. Hell, seems like he'd be pretty good on his wing in a trip aces list.

Has a ruling come down how his text interacts with stuff like Basement Jaxx?



E: Is there something with the functionality of Cryodex that's available on Android?

I don't want to buy a laptop just to run one program I'll use once a quarter for a gently caress off hobby. And all of the "solutions" for running Java on Android are basically "use a remote desktop," which adds all kinds of issues of its own.

Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 21, 2016

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Otisburg posted:

Higher PS, built-in action economy without any drawback, another point of hull?

On the other hand, I like the Inquisitor's dial better.

I think they both fill a niche and while he might replace him in some builds, he won't completely obliterate Vader. Hell, seems like he'd be pretty good on his wing in a trip aces list.

Has a ruling come down how his text interacts with stuff like Basement Jaxx?

His dial's far better, and the title's great (I like him with Juke rather than PTL for just that reason) but Vader certainly still has his place. PS11 with boost/barrel roll and two actions is enough better than PS10 that I think it's valuable - it's not just Poe, it's also RAC, and potentially VI Inq as well. There are still a wide range of PS9+ ships out there that Vader gets the drop on.

As regards Inq and Carnor/Autothrusters no, there hasn't been a ruling, they don't usually answer questions on unreleased material. For my part, I'm assuming that he isn't affected by Carnor (the attack being range 1 doesn't make his ship be at range 1 which is what Carnor checks) but similarly, he wouldn't block AT, because his attack being range 1 doesn't make his ship stop being range 3.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?
Well I'm piloting SOV at game day, and after a really strong round one I faced Brobots (B+D), Scum (IG-88B, Thug Y, Z Z), and then B+D Brobots again :suicide:

Goddamn I hate 88B so goddamn much right now. It punishes arc-dodger lists super hard for not flying perfectly, and it's so nimble while still being a large ship that it's absolutely trivial for it to just eat up all the space and completely destroy my movement. Did I just get incredibly unlucky with my pairings, or is there some trick I'm not seeing?

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!
Nah, Iggies are tough for trip aces, they're very agile and hard to arcdodge if they're flown cleverly, and they have a lot of HP to chunk through, especially with the boost-evade one - and HLCs so OL doesn't like them one little bit. It's one of the lists where Vader isn't actually better than Whisper, because she's just as capable of arcdodging them but the extra die and relative ease of maintaining targetting makes her punchy AF.

You just have to focus fire as best you can and hope to arcdodge wherever possible. And if you can't dodge, at least get into range 1, assuming they're HLC brobots; B's effect is cannon-only so they'll miss the second shot if you're in range 1.

The IGBYZZ list sounds easier; IGGies on their own always feel slightly wasted to me. Vader should be able to waste a Z in two turns trivially, in one turn if he's lucky, same with Soontir, and OL should be able to pick apart the Y pretty much at his leisure. Again the trick is to punch out the brobot first, and assuming he's not got VI your whole list is moving after him so you should be able to focus him down in a turn or two.

Slab Squatthrust
Jun 3, 2008

This is mutiny!
The trick with Vader is that VI is good against a few ships mentioned, but Predator turns him into a damage dealing monster. Range 1 Fel is scared of him for sure. Just be sure to include an init bid if you go that route.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?
I should have clarified, because I completely forgot the more prominent V--I am making the highly questionable decision of running Vessery. But you're still right that I had the means to pick apart the non-Brobots list if I had played tighter.

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


Vessery is great as long as you take some dudes with target locks to give him options. I find he pairs really well with TIE/fos. He'll be super good after Imp Vets hits.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?
Round 5: Brobots again. :smith:

Irom
May 16, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

Endman posted:

Vessery is great as long as you take some dudes with target locks to give him options. I find he pairs really well with TIE/fos. He'll be super good after Imp Vets hits.

I want to fly this next:

Vess, ruthlessness, tractor beam, tie/d, mk ii engines
Omega leader, comms, ptl, stealth device
Royal guard tie, ptl, targeting computer, autothrusters

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

The Lord of Hats posted:

Round 5: Brobots again. :smith:

I managed to get one to half this time :unsmith:

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



So the Inquisitor is obviously going to have a place as soon as he lands (though I don't think that place completely shoves out Vader) , but how are we feeling on Valen?

Text is alright and could allow for some surprise attack vectors or keep him out of trouble if he fucks up and ends up in multiple arcs, though it has the downside of preventing you from wanting to amp him up in any way that leaves him with a stress token during the shooty phase. And PS 6 is right in that netherworld of "more than you really want to pay for, but not enough to matter against top contenders." The generic might also end up being the best bang-for-your-buck missile platform in the Imperial fleet. I'm stoked. Gonna be a cool wave.

Brunas
Nov 5, 2012

thespaceinvader posted:

His dial's far better, and the title's great (I like him with Juke rather than PTL for just that reason) but Vader certainly still has his place. PS11 with boost/barrel roll and two actions is enough better than PS10 that I think it's valuable - it's not just Poe, it's also RAC, and potentially VI Inq as well. There are still a wide range of PS9+ ships out there that Vader gets the drop on.

As regards Inq and Carnor/Autothrusters no, there hasn't been a ruling, they don't usually answer questions on unreleased material. For my part, I'm assuming that he isn't affected by Carnor (the attack being range 1 doesn't make his ship be at range 1 which is what Carnor checks) but similarly, he wouldn't block AT, because his attack being range 1 doesn't make his ship stop being range 3.

There has been a relevant AT ruling - AT is now measured from base to base, regardless of the range of the attack. For example a range 3 in arc shot on a ship that is out of arc at range 2 does not get autothrusters. This would mean the inquisitor doesn't stop the defender from getting AT, unless another ruling comes out. I doubt Carnor Jax outside of range 1 prevents token spending, as the attack itself is what is modified range, not the distance to carnor jax. Zertick Strom should shut him down, which is pretty funny.

guts and bolts
May 16, 2015

Have you heard the Good News?
I think TAP competes most directly with Fel instead of Vader, but I guess that's me. Similar point costs when outfitted, similar roles to play if not identical. I'm not sure there's any way to make a really direct analog between two ace ships in terms of what you want them to be doing, but you can make some loose associations dependent upon which list you're trying to slot them in. In a three-ace list like VFO, I think you lose Fel to grab TAP and leave Vader at PS11 to trump PS10 Poes, who are likely not going away no matter how much people want Guidance Chimps to work that way.

I've expressed mild disappointment with Wave 8 in the past, and there was an earlier derail about slowing down the hype train, so I don't think it's a good idea for me to reiterate those points here. Suffice it to say that I would rather have things release slightly strong and then buff prior content to catch back up where necessary, instead of releasing really weak (the Ghost) or slightly weak (most everything else) and adjusting accordingly. It makes managing power creep annoying as all hell, but I think that's preferable to "welp, I'm building a Rebel list, better start at 74 points because that stresshog isn't going anywhere."

Strangely I think the side that has gotten the most meta-changing updates/releases/previews intra-faction-wise recently has been Empire, with Omega Leader's release being a gamechanger, Kallus finding a home in some powerful lists, Juke being poised as a sexy EPT option for future ships, and Imperial Veterans looking crazy good whenever it hits (in 2036, at FFG's current rate of getting ships off the boat). Wave 8 gives us Tractor Beam and a playable PWT in Scum, but Dengarcrew (who I'm on record as thinking of as awesome) is a great crew in a faction teeming with great crew.

Rebels are getting a large-base that is maybe mildly playable (?) and a shuttle pilot that just squishes a Z-95 and a TLT Y-Wing together into one ship. And Kanan crew, who I think is solid.

Chimps are obviously neat and I'll play with some generic Concussion Missiles swarms. I think that a lot of things people dislike about the current metagame (preponderance of TLTs, unfun PS/initiative bidding, Scum's severe lack of top-tier competitive lists, Palpshuttles in general maybe?) are basically still in place in a post-Wave 8 world, all hyperbole aside. Like, I said it earlier, but my favorite answer for massed TLT spam is... Poe and two TLTs.

I'll buy a TAP and a Ghost expansion day one, for sure, though. At least all the models are super pretty.

Brunas
Nov 5, 2012

Otisburg posted:

So the Inquisitor is obviously going to have a place as soon as he lands (though I don't think that place completely shoves out Vader) , but how are we feeling on Valen?

Text is alright and could allow for some surprise attack vectors or keep him out of trouble if he fucks up and ends up in multiple arcs, though it has the downside of preventing you from wanting to amp him up in any way that leaves him with a stress token during the shooty phase. And PS 6 is right in that netherworld of "more than you really want to pay for, but not enough to matter against top contenders." The generic might also end up being the best bang-for-your-buck missile platform in the Imperial fleet. I'm stoked. Gonna be a cool wave.

Valen Rudor seems like a trap. He does almost no damage with 2 primary, and is going to cost 25 minimum for title + AT, any EPT you want to put on there just makes it worse. He's a quarter of your list for a ship that doesn't accomplish too much other than avoid being shot at, but even when he's the last ship you have getting a free action on getting attacked isn't very valuable.

guts and bolts posted:

I think TAP competes most directly with Fel instead of Vader, but I guess that's me. Similar point costs when outfitted, similar roles to play if not identical. I'm not sure there's any way to make a really direct analog between two ace ships in terms of what you want them to be doing, but you can make some loose associations dependent upon which list you're trying to slot them in. In a three-ace list like VFO, I think you lose Fel to grab TAP and leave Vader at PS11 to trump PS10 Poes, who are likely not going away no matter how much people want Guidance Chimps to work that way.
I don't think out PSing poe matters much, since he's going to do a green and boost at most. You'll want to keep him at range 2 with the inquisitor, which shouldn't be too hard. Whisper is the big loss in moving from PS11->8, but if we have other 9s and a bid that shouldn't a big deal, I don't bringer vader as a phantom counter now. Vader barely scratches normal whisper, the new kallus + palps whisper basically never takes damage from vader anyways.

Brunas fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Feb 22, 2016

Slab Squatthrust
Jun 3, 2008

This is mutiny!

Otisburg posted:

So the Inquisitor is obviously going to have a place as soon as he lands (though I don't think that place completely shoves out Vader) , but how are we feeling on Valen?

Text is alright and could allow for some surprise attack vectors or keep him out of trouble if he fucks up and ends up in multiple arcs, though it has the downside of preventing you from wanting to amp him up in any way that leaves him with a stress token during the shooty phase. And PS 6 is right in that netherworld of "more than you really want to pay for, but not enough to matter against top contenders." The generic might also end up being the best bang-for-your-buck missile platform in the Imperial fleet. I'm stoked. Gonna be a cool wave.

How often do you see Turr Phenir played? Realistically, Turr has a more restrictive, but much simpler to use ability. Aaaaand, it's not very good. You're lucky if it works even a single time in a game. Generally, he can't dodge an arc, or isn't able to get to a further range band, making it largely irrelevant. Taking PtL leaves him at PS 7, which sucks for arc dodging, and means his ability won't trigger until after aces. VI makes him high skill, but then you have an interceptor that can bascially only ever focus as it's main action. In the words of Immortan Joe: "MEDIOCRE".

Valen is going to be in a similar boat. PS 6 sucks, it's basically a 2-3 point tax over being PS 3 which is at least a vaguely useful number to reach in that you beat most generics. His ability is actually pretty neat, but setting up the perfect scenario (boost/roll into a new range band, dodge an arc) is going to be tough to set up, and doesn't happen until after you're shot. Might be cool to get shot at, then boost into range 1 after, which is marginally easier to set up and actually helpful. OTOH, his ability really depends on the board state. Boost in, but what if there's another ship in the area that will shoot you again? I think 90% of the time his text is actually going to be "Once per turn, after you defend against an attack take a focus action." Which isn't really bad or anything, but it's not great, and the TAP seems like a ship that's really going to want to arc dodge, which is tough with PS 6. I think he's okay, and people will run him for fun, but I seriously doubt you'll see him in many top 4/competitive lists.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



I just thought of a maybe outside-the-box thing?

I saw a guy playing thug lyfe with the old damage deck at the last store champs, and someone opined that might not be the best call since it means imperiling the TLTs.

However there is zero opportunity or squadron point cost to putting "Bomb Loadout" on all of your Syndicate Thugs, running the old deck, and once again treating Munitions Failure as pretty much blank since Bomb Loadout is a valid forfeit for it?


E: I'm stupid, since it doesn't have the "Attack:" header it's not a proper secondary weapon.

Uh... howabout that attack shuttle though?

Strobe
Jun 30, 2014
GW BRAINWORMS CREW
It's not. Secondary Weapons are explicitly defined as upgrade cards that have the "Attack:" header.

Slab Squatthrust
Jun 3, 2008

This is mutiny!

guts and bolts posted:

Wave 8 gives us Tractor Beam and a playable PWT in Scum, but Dengarcrew (who I'm on record as thinking of as awesome) is a great crew in a faction teeming with great crew.

I think you're seriously underestimating how absolutely good Dengar is on the Jumpmaster. Dash Rendar is still seeing play as a PS 7 Ace that has a glaring weakness in the Range 1 hole, in a meta full of aces. Dengar is Dash, but with an even better pilot ability, PS 9, and a superior selection of upgrades/crew options. The only actual drawback is that Scum has a harder time filling 40ish points right now, but there's still several options that can work there. The ship can even be built to pretty much not give two shits about stress, with both Predator as an option, or K4 Security (and Unhinged to further exploit that if you want). Being able to change facing as a white maneuver also means swarms won't be able to pin it down as easily as many larger ships, and the double tap will scare them as well when you manage it. It's enough that I might even end up running Scum regularly over Empire (Defender fix, though....unf).

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Strobe posted:

It's not. Secondary Weapons are explicitly defined as upgrade cards that have the "Attack:" header.

Yeah, my brain caught up with me seconds after posting that.

You should still always run it on your TLT Y-Wings though, because there's no opportunity cost and the bomb chambers make a good place to store your space drugs.

ranbo das
Oct 16, 2013


Something like 40% of the field at today's store tournament was flying brobots or one bot with 2 TLT y wings, including the eventual winner. gently caress brobots.

guts and bolts
May 16, 2015

Have you heard the Good News?

The Gate posted:

I think you're seriously underestimating how absolutely good Dengar is on the Jumpmaster. Dash Rendar is still seeing play as a PS 7 Ace that has a glaring weakness in the Range 1 hole, in a meta full of aces. Dengar is Dash, but with an even better pilot ability, PS 9, and a superior selection of upgrades/crew options. The only actual drawback is that Scum has a harder time filling 40ish points right now, but there's still several options that can work there. The ship can even be built to pretty much not give two shits about stress, with both Predator as an option, or K4 Security (and Unhinged to further exploit that if you want). Being able to change facing as a white maneuver also means swarms won't be able to pin it down as easily as many larger ships, and the double tap will scare them as well when you manage it. It's enough that I might even end up running Scum regularly over Empire (Defender fix, though....unf).

I agree with your assessment except that I think Dash isn't that great. He is still seeing play, but GA's store champs had practically no TLTs in it at all - due to fatigue or whatever - so a ton of stuff skating through that normally may not. I think I saw one Dash at GT's store champs? And it was pretty competitive. "Seeing play" in the local meta varies wildly. "Blue Ace" is seeing play at Atomic Empire. Unless you mean at top-tier levels of competition, in which case I've mostly just been playing locally and in Vassal online leagues and haven't kept up on the other considered-good store champs stuff.

I think Dengar is solid but not great, and stuck in a faction where it's a struggle to come up with a truly elite companion ship for him to fly with. It isn't like Rebels where you have access to your Corran Horns or your Poe Damerons and you just plug 'em in and roll - Guri may legitimately be your best option, and that's clearly the best of a bad situation.

Still, I respect that you disagree with me, and I'm hoping that when Wave 8 hits we'll get some games in? Maybe before then? I'll be at GA tomorrow playing Poe/Ezra/Y-Wing.

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


ranbo das posted:

Something like 40% of the field at today's store tournament was flying brobots or one bot with 2 TLT y wings, including the eventual winner. gently caress brobots.

That's like the complete opposite of the Store Championship I went to where there was a crazy amount of list diversity and not a single IG.

Tequila Ranger
Sep 11, 2004

host after host after host ...
There was a 66-player Store Champs in Southern California yesterday, top 8 were 7 Imperial, 1 Scum:

1st Place: (98 points)
(6th Place when cut to Top 8)
TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27)
Push The Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Shield Upgrade (4)

VT-49 Decimator: · Captain Oicunn (42)
Predator (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Ion Bombs (2)
Ion Projector (2)
· Emperor Palpatine (8)
· Mara Jade (3)
------------------------------
2nd Place: (100 points)
(2nd Place when cut to Top 8)
VT-49 Decimator: · Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
· Emperor Palpatine (8)
· Moff Jerjerrod (2)

TIE Phantom: · "Echo" (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)
· Agent Kallus (2)
------------------------------
Top 4: (99 points)
(5th Place when cut to Top 8)
TIE Advanced: · Darth Vader (29)
Crack Shot (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27)
Push The Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Stealth Device (3)

Lambda-Class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot (21)
· Emperor Palpatine (8)
------------------------------
Top 4: (100 points)
(8th Place when cut to Top 8)
TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27)
Push The Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Royal Guard TIE (0)
Stealth Device (3)

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Comm Relay (3)

TIE/fo Fighter: Zeta Squadron Pilot (16)
Weapons Guidance (2)

TIE/fo Fighter: Zeta Squadron Pilot (16)
Weapons Guidance (2)
------------------------------
Top 8: (100 points)
(1st Place when cut to Top 8)
TIE Fighter: · "Wampa" (14)
Stealth Device (3)

VT-49 Decimator: · Captain Oicunn (42)
Expose (4)
· Experimental Interface (3)
· Emperor Palpatine (8)
· Darth Vader (3)

TIE Advanced: · Lieutenant Colzet (23)
TIE/x1 (0)
Accuracy Corrector (0)
------------------------------
Top 8: (100 points)
(3rd Place when cut to Top 8)
HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)
Lightning Reflexes (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
· Moldy Crow (3)

HWK-290: · Torkil Mux (19)
Twin Laser Turret (6)

Y-Wing: · Drea Renthal (22)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
· R4-B11 (3)

M3-A Interceptor: Cartel Spacer (14)
------------------------------
Top 8: (99 points)
(4th Place when cut to Top 8)
TIE Phantom: · "Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)
· Agent Kallus (2)

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

Lambda-Class Shuttle: · Captain Yorr (24)
· Emperor Palpatine (8)
------------------------------
Top 8: (100 points)
(7th Place when cut to Top 8)
TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

TIE Fighter: · "Howlrunner" (18)
Hull Upgrade (3)

TIE Fighter: · "Wampa" (14)

TIE Fighter: Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)

TIE Fighter: Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)

TIE Fighter: Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13)
------------------------------

Edit: Thanks to the guy who posted the above list on FB (I removed names just in case)

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





I placed 2nd at the GameHQ store championship in Oklahoma City today.

I flew the second of the two lists I posted about yesterday:
Palpmobile
Wampa
Omega Leader (Comm Relay, Juke)
Vader (VI, TIE/x1, ATC)

No one knew what to target first, and that was worth its weight in gold. Everyone either went after Wampa or Vader. Wampa, especially, draws an absolutely hilarious amount of aggro.

First game was against a Poe, Red Ace, and TLT HWK list. I lost this one (45-37) on time, but I was one turn away from killing Red Ace. I would have had him on the last turn if Wampa had rolled a crit OR if I hadn't had to spend Palp to keep Wampa alive. :(

I honestly cannot remember my second game at all, except that the mat was some crappy knock-off and I had to tape down the edges which curled so hard ships would slide off. I don't even remember what faction he was flying. Holy poo poo my memory is shot. I won this one 100-28 according to my record sheet.

Third game was against standard Vader/Soontir/Palpmobile. Wampa scared Soontir so bad that he flew into a rock to avoid Wampa's arc: O'Leader and Vader made short work of him. He spent the rest of the game running Vader away like crazy. Game went to time, but in my favor, even after he killed Wampa. Lowest scoring game ever, even more than the first one, at 35-14.

Fourth game was against Poe, Miranda, and a PS2 generic T70. Poe evaporated early, followed by the rookie. Spent the rest of the game chasing Miranda, who got FOUR turns to kill Vader and couldn't do it thanks to some insane green dice on my end. 68-14

Fifth game was my absolute favorite of the day. It was a bizarre list, too. Two PS5 phantoms with Intel Agent, Sensor Jammer, and Advanced Cloaking Device, and Turr Phenir with VI and Autothrusters. Vader and Soontir made short work of Turr, while Wampa scared the Phantoms and drew their aggro. He lasted a few more turns, but mostly served his purpose in making a phantom chase him. O'Leader was the star of this game, with his last phantom doing everything in its power to stay out of O'Leader's arc. I lost wampa and the shuttle, but took out his entire list. 100-41.


Semifinals was against brobots, B&C. HLC, Crack Shot, Glitterstim, FCS. Pretty standard. This was a nail-biter that came down to Omega Leader and Palpmobile against 88C. Went to time, and on the last turn I got the crucial shot through to get C to half health, giving me the win. 75-60. One of my favorite matches of the day!


The finals went terribly. Vader, Carnor Jax, Palpmobile. I rolled a grand total of ONE evade that game, and his red dice were every bit as good as my green were bad. I won't say he didn't deserve the win, but man, if I had been able to evade ANYTHING it would have been great. Even using Palp defensively, I lost a ship a turn, and couldn't get through any damage. I think this would have been a great match if I'd rolled even average, but instead it was over in literally 15 minutes.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

guts and bolts
May 16, 2015

Have you heard the Good News?

ConfusedUs posted:

The finals went terribly. Vader, Carnor Jax, Palpmobile. I rolled a grand total of ONE evade that game, and his red dice were every bit as good as my green were bad. I won't say he didn't deserve the win, but man, if I had been able to evade ANYTHING it would have been great. Even using Palp defensively, I lost a ship a turn, and couldn't get through any damage. I think this would have been a great match if I'd rolled even average, but instead it was over in literally 15 minutes.

My green dice were so bad at my last showing at GT's store champs that the manager literally offered to buy me a beer after watching the game. It was horrific. You never want to say someone doesn't deserve a win, but holy poo poo. I feel your pain.

Congratulations on your good finish, man.

  • Locked thread