|
A 50S RAYGUN posted:you haven't really articulated how that 'wouldn't be pubg', though. the tournament points exist entirely outside of the gameplay. it's literally impossible for them to change the actual game, just how people engage with it in a competitive setting. I don't think the designer should change the game to make it more fun to watch at the expense of how fun it is to play, but I can still reason about how good a spectator game is and what people are interested in. I think widely advertising something that isn't pubg as pubg will exert pressure on the game developers in ways I don't like and that's enough to push me to comment on it. Does this game really have "extreme RNG"? That'd be true if you could only visit 3 houses, but it all kinda averages out over the course of the early game. Yes, some but not all players are gonna find the really rare stuff, but if you make it your goal, it's pretty difficult to find a game in which it was demonstrably impossible for you to get a baseline loadout - failing to do so is way more about your decision making than the RNG. Obviously landing on school and getting blown up instantly isn't a good way to win the game, if winning a tournament means not landing there, so be it. Why is shooting "displaying the most skill"? In a game largely about surviving, it seems to me that displaying the most skill in hiding is what should cause you to win. Killing people is a measured risk - you get a bunch of loot at the cost of drawing attention to yourself and I think that's a fine trade-off.
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 14:53 |
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Right but....that makes it not pubg, the game you play when you purchase pubg and hit play game. How do you get to this conclusion? Adjusting the weight of placement VS kills doesn't make it a different game. Besides that even reals sports change rules to make the game more exciting all the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
No one is asking to change what constitutes winning a single match, and at this point you are willfully ignoring that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
I think there's enough players in the game to make it something worth watching. If they get the spectating dialed in and the commentating on point it will be a fun watch even if some people are crouching in bathtubs.
odiv fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
Crell posted:How do you get to this conclusion? Adjusting the weight of placement VS kills doesn't make it a different game. That's a good point. Spectator professional sports are always changing the rules to make it more enjoyable to watch. Pro rules are almost always different from amateur rules.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
no one has discussed changing the win condition, though. you still want to be the last person standing. the win condition of the tournament is totally divorced from the win condition of an individual game of pubg. we're literally not even talking about changing the game of pubg. the changes i'm talking about could be done, right now, without a single patch being pushed and someone who does not give a poo poo about gamescom would literally never be affected at all. shooting is 'displaying the most skill' because it is the most mechanically difficult part of the game. it is not hard to find two first aid kits and jump in an ocean. it is hard to expertly headshot the occupant of a moving car or a zigzagging target in a treeline. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Aug 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
cosmicjim posted:No one is asking to change what constitutes winning a single match, and at this point you are willfully ignoring that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
if a win was worth 500 points, placement below first was worth zero, and a kill was worth twenty, you would need to kill twenty-five people a game to draw the winner of a match, assuming the winner did not kill anybody. you're arguing a position in bad faith using poo poo logic and positions that i literally don't recall anyone holding.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:42
|
|
|
HatfulOfHollow's idea was terrible. The numbers do need to be tweaked, but not nearly as rigorously as that. My previous post got buried as yours started a new page only seconds after, but I'm curious to see what people think of it as a sort of middle ground. E: 'yours' as in Jeffrey's.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
there is a four-team sports tournament. a win is worth two points, a draw one, and a loss zero. a team with four draws beats the other three teams, all of whom won one match, drew on one one, and lost two. jeffrey of yospos springs up in his bed, without understanding. 'how can it be! they didn't win a game at all!'
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:45
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Okay but all the proposals involve potentially giving the win someone who did not win any games. In some of them, even someone who won twice could potentially lose the tournament. I think that's bad. Right which is why people are saying that you balance the system such that it's very difficult but possible to do. Like winning a football game by only scoring field goals or shooting the moon in hearts.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 22:45
|
|
|
A 50S RAYGUN posted:if a win was worth 500 points, placement below first was worth zero, and a kill was worth twenty, you would need to kill twenty-five people a game to draw the winner of a match, assuming the winner did not kill anybody. Parallel, I agree your proposal isn't crazy or anything, I wouldn't be steaming mad at that or anything. I'd still prefer a system with a "kill point" pool per-game which is strictly less than (placement points for 1st - placement points for 2nd) such that, kills would be useful for tie breaking but you strictly can't win without, well, winning.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
The major benefit of killing is being able to loot the body. Perhaps there is a way to make killing more encouraged by changing the drop rates or make certain mods only found on dead bodies?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
Using a femur as a melee weapon inspires fear in the hearts of your enemies, slowing time to ADS for anyone who sees you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
A 50S RAYGUN posted:there is a four-team sports tournament. a win is worth two points, a draw one, and a loss zero. a team with four draws beats the other three teams, all of whom won one match, drew on one one, and lost two. Are you trying to make a point because this big ball of nonsense isn't even close to what's being discussed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
Why not do the ridiculous old suggested f1 medal system. If you're playing 3 games or whatever then whoever gets the most chicken dinners wins. Tiebreaker is kills. You have to win to win, but unless you win multiple games you know you're going to have to outfrag someone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:17
|
|
|
pro tourney rules: remove the end game win screen and instead have it show a Matrix like feed .gifs of 15 seconds of every single kill in the game, 10x10 tiled across your screen. click on one to show an expanded 30 seconds of the kill. then everyone gets one vote for the sick2nasty kill of the game. can't vote for yourself.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
VulgarandStupid posted:It's a problem because 10/14 players alive swimming in the water because they are unkillable there is a bad experience for everyone. Then you couple it with the bad map design, in this case the very barren beaches to make it even worse. Yeah, there should be a lot of little docks and shacks and poo poo along the water. Also have the devs never been to a beach? There should be tall grass and logs and all sorts of poo poo scattered around the beach. Hopefully their other maps are more interesting. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Aug 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
You should be able to dynamite-fish players with frag/stun grenades
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:31
|
|
|
Playerunknown has already said that they are willing to reengineer parts or all of the map where needed. That likely won't occur until after the game hits v1.0.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:36
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dihs9JcVt3E Make it so there's some water penetration for certain calibers to stop this hiding in the water non-sense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:41
|
|
|
Is there a minimum distance required between teammates to get knocked down or is it map wide?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
moush posted:Is there a minimum distance required between teammates to get knocked down or is it map wide?
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
400 for a win 100 for top 10 Player with the most kills gets 100 Kills are worth 20 Top player gets 150% bonus on kills. Without killing anyone you'd make 500 and it would be extremely difficult to match that without placing in the top ten with the most kills at 15+ kills
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
How about this? gently caress the points system. A win means you win, but you need a tiebreaker. So if there are 3 rounds, 2 wins is automatic. If you have 3 winners, then use kills as a tiebreaker. That would mean when someone wins round one, that person will become very aggressive to get kills. After round two you will have 2 people being very aggressive for kills in the 3rd round. If you don't get any kills in the first two rounds, you might not be able to beat the winner of round one or two because you weren't aggressive enough. The ramifications are people will take some chances to at least get some kills, but I'm still playing to win.....
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
The worst part of this boring esports tournament is it's going to teach a whole shitload of randoms to play like this in the wild.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
They will likely solve a ton of Esports / watchability issues by having competition take place on a select set of maps, probably complete with different loot / crate / red zone rules. No, this won't be the exact same experience a player gets when they queue up and hit play, but i wouldn't doubt there will be large custom games that mimic the maps/rulesets of competitive. I mean this isn't complicated, almost every ESPORT has concession that make it slightly different than the normal player experience. Counterstrike runs higher tickrate servers, Smash turns off all items and plays on specific levels, RTS games often have competitive maps, ect. I think the current growing pains are just a result of this game being stupid popular during the pre release phase, but they are already off to a great start with the spectator features/camera mode.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
cosmicjim posted:How about this? okay so game 1 has 0 aggressive players not hiding in the ocean, game 2 has one aggressive player...
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
This game is popular so it will sell ad and sponsor time for the event organizers. This thread is kids coming up with ways to make mario more cool with bullets and like a rocket pack and oh it would be so rad if he could teleport to the ghost world in smb2 if you punched in a double hadoken in the middle of a jump
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Zigmidge posted:This game is popular so it will sell ad and sponsor time for the event organizers. This thread is kids coming up with ways to make mario more cool with bullets and like a rocket pack and oh it would be so rad if he could teleport to the ghost world in smb2 if you punched in a double hadoken in the middle of a jump I think this thread is trying to solve the "10 of the final 20 players are hiding in the water as the final circles close on a $30k tournament" problem we witnessed today.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
You let me know if PU hears y'all
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
moush posted:Is there a minimum distance required between teammates to get knocked down or is it map wide? Map wide. Had a guy desync on the plane after we jumped early. He got punched down and eventually bled out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:48
|
|
|
Pleads posted:I think this thread is trying to solve the "10 of the final 20 players are hiding in the water as the final circles close on a $30k tournament" problem we witnessed today. I think the question is why is that a problem? Tons of people are still watching. I mean there's always action somewhere. If the cameraman wasn't a complete moron this would be amazingly exciting from beginning to end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
ChesterJT posted:I think the question is why is that a problem? Tons of people are still watching. Because people won't keep watching if that's how every tournament goes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Because people won't keep watching if that's how every tournament goes. That's what the game is, and millions of people are playing and watching it every day so you are objectively wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
ChesterJT posted:That's what the game is, and millions of people are playing and watching it every day so you are objectively wrong. Really? Very few of the games I play end up with half the final 20 swimming to avoid getting shot. That's not how any of the streamers play the game when I've watched them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
that's not what the game is to the average player and it's not what twitch viewership will likely want to keep seeing. this was the first real pubg tournament, how were viewers supposed to magically know it would actually just be a bunch of idiots trying to get no kill no alert runs in metal gear solid?
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
not trying to solve the unsolvable, just putting a fork in this dumb fucker and lollin'
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
ChesterJT posted:I think the question is why is that a problem? Tons of people are still watching. I mean there's always action somewhere. If the cameraman wasn't a complete moron this would be amazingly exciting from beginning to end. I guess if you consider a buttload of disappointed tweets from viewers and the 2 commentators actively calling it a lovely way for a round to end a good long-term strategy... People won't keep tuning in to watch Evermore hang out on the spawn island. Here's hoping FPP is a bit more interesting tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 14:53 |
|
|
they'll almost certainly do something with water, probably with the patch that adds bullet penetration in general there was no problem in the matches where the final circle didn't end up over water. every match will have the same number of kills no matter how you structure the points. they just need better observing, since with the current terrible observing you won't see anything even if players are aggressive
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2017 01:06
|
|
