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Groovelord Neato posted:yeah it doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the original just like scott's moronic ideas about deckard don't harm my viewings of the blade runners. One of the more baffling changes in the Alien “director’s cut” is he changed up the audio when the characters listen to the Derelict’s broadcast. The original audio sounded like an elephant being strangled underwater and was legit unsettling, the audio in the director’s cut feels a lot more generic and nowhere near as “weird”. I’m phone posting otherwise I’d grab some links of the two versions.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:45
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Xenomrph posted:One of the more baffling changes in the Alien “director’s cut” is he changed up the audio when the characters listen to the Derelict’s broadcast. The original audio sounded like an elephant being strangled underwater and was legit unsettling, the audio in the director’s cut feels a lot more generic and nowhere near as “weird”. I’m phone posting otherwise I’d grab some links of the two versions. There's interesting, I didn't know that and definitely have never listened to the two of them side by side.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:48
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Basebf555 posted:There's interesting, I didn't know that and definitely have never listened to the two of them side by side. I’ll try and dig them up when I get home from work, the replacement audio is drastically inferior in my opinion.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:53
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Was there was a specific reason for the change or if it was just a matter of the original audio being lost and them just trusting whatever sound guy to handle it?
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Aug 12, 2019 17:16
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I think this is the original audio version: https://youtu.be/n_VnoLyrfdY Edit: a video conveniently comparing the two: https://youtu.be/9UwYJRj2Zao Kane’s “Good God!” really doesn’t fit the newer version. david_a fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 17:25
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david_a posted:I think this is the original audio version: https://youtu.be/n_VnoLyrfdY There we go, thanks!  Neo Rasa posted:Was there was a specific reason for the change or if it was just a matter of the original audio being lost and them just trusting whatever sound guy to handle it? The original audio definitely hasn’t been lost, the deleted scene itself with the original audio has been around for years. I’ve never seen a reason given for the change, I suspect it’s just Ridley being Ridley.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:31
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Xenomrph posted:There we go, thanks! I mean original audio like the the actual first recording of it. Sometimes when stuff is re-released or restored some bits of audio, the original sources are lost or sometimes degraded to the point where something new has to be recorded. So like you can hear the original on various releases of a thing but if it was reused 1:1 in an otherwise restored version of a movie it would sound way off or/and you could hear a lot of background noise you wouldn't have perceived on a lower quality mix like on a VHS/etc. Arguably that could actually improve the sound in this particular case but it seemed like such an odd thing to change that it made me wonder if they just couldn't find the original asset and just trusted someone to make a new "unknown signal" type of sound.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:50
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Xenomrph posted:It keeps Ridley Scott from digging his narrative hole deeper if his movie never gets off the ground, though. The issue here is that began with Alien 3, then continued with every sequel and spin-off so it's not like the bar is set high anymore and the story of the universe isn't dragged through the mud. Most of the supplemental EU stuff is probably straight garbage as well. Just let the dumpster fire burn and enjoy the beauty of the flames.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:20
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sigher posted:The issue here is that began with Alien 3, then continued with every sequel and spin-off so it's not like the bar is set high anymore and the story of the universe isn't dragged through the mud. Most of the supplemental EU stuff is probably straight garbage as well. Well I mean, on one level I agree with you because a lot of the EU is all over the map, but the bulk of it is self contained and doesn’t really have ramifications for the other stories. The prequel movies kind of go out of their way to do exactly that, and the results are both unnecessary and of questionable quality IMO. I’m not saying the prequel movies shouldn’t have been made; they’ve got a lot of legit neat ideas and gorgeous visuals (and David, who rules), I just think they shouldn’t have been Alien movies. Independent of my fanboy whining that they hosed with my Alien movies, I think Ridley Scott could have come up with some really crazy and hosed up poo poo had he not been mandated to tether things to the Alien movies. I mean it’s easy enough to ignore the stuff I don’t care for, but that doesn’t mean I can’t express why I don’t like it. 
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Aug 12, 2019 20:04
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I dreamed I was watching Ridley Scott's new Alien movie in theaters. It started with a bunch of military and/or space personel being interrogated about rumours and information on the xenos. Some kind of top secret project was being prepared. Then a series of amazing space sequences, like a crash zoom into a planet formed of ice with a bunch of space ships doing something around it. Then I woke up.
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Aug 13, 2019 14:17
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Xenomrph posted:Well I mean, on one level I agree with you because a lot of the EU is all over the map, but the bulk of it is self contained and doesn’t really have ramifications for the other stories. The prequel movies kind of go out of their way to do exactly that, and the results are both unnecessary and of questionable quality IMO. Er... not really, though? The prequels just establish a weird tangential line away from what we already know. All you'd have to do to get things "back on track" is establish that David was copying the Engineers' existing work, and there's already evidence for this in Prometheus (the Deacon, the giant starfish pseudo-facehugger).
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Aug 13, 2019 20:53
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Well sure, but Ridley might not do that unless the studio mandated it. He’s so unpredictable that who knows what he’s going to want to do, or how hard he’d push back on a studio mandate. the only reason there are even Aliens in Covenant is because Fox told him to do it. his response was to try and gently caress with the Alien’s origin, a move so unpopular that the guy writing the movie’s novelization recognized that it was stupid and unilaterally chose to change it when he wrote the book. Between the option of Ridley Scott doubling down on the stuff I didn’t like, or the studio taking his toys away, I’ll take the latter.
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Aug 13, 2019 21:23
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Xenomrph posted:his response was to try and gently caress with the Alien’s origin, a move so unpopular that the guy writing the movie’s novelization recognized that it was stupid and unilaterally chose to change it when he wrote the book. The fact that it was changed in the novelization means all of jack poo poo.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:04
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Xenomrph posted:Between the option of Ridley Scott doubling down on the stuff I didn’t like, or the studio taking his toys away, I’ll take the latter. "I don't like this man's art so I'm glad he won't be able to make anymore."
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Aug 13, 2019 22:10
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Schwarzwald posted:The fact that it was changed in the novelization means all of jack poo poo. sigher posted:"I don't like this man's art so I'm glad he won't be able to make anymore." If I don’t like what somebody did, not being upset if they don’t continue doing it seems like a sensible and understandable position.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:20
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I wish the prequels were not prequels mostly because I think David is engagingly terrifying and just wish it was about him without pausing the movie every so often for dumb Alien fanservice/references.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:31
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ImpAtom posted:I wish the prequels were not prequels mostly because I think David is engagingly terrifying and just wish it was about him without pausing the movie every so often for dumb Alien fanservice/references. Yes, this, exactly. There’s a bunch of really great David moments - one of my favorites is from Covenant when David tries to communicate with one of the Neomorphs (right after it murdered someone) and then his reaction of horror after Oram guns it down. That whole sequence is fantastic.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:46
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In Alien, the Mother computer accidentally encounters an alien signal - which, based on her corporate programming, she interprets as justification to kill the crew. It’s a big debacle. In Alien licensed merchandise, this event was retconned into an elaborate, nonsensical conspiracy. In Alien 2, this event was retconned to not exist. Those are ‘ramifications’. The alien egg design being 20 years old instead of some other age is not a ‘ramification’.
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Aug 14, 2019 08:48
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yeah in the EU isn't it that the company already picked up the signal and translated and sent the ship there specifically to "stumble upon" it? that poo poo's dumb.
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Aug 14, 2019 12:58
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Groovelord Neato posted:yeah in the EU isn't it that the company already picked up the signal and translated and sent the ship there specifically to "stumble upon" it? that poo poo's dumb. I used to think that Mother was on some level in communication with the company though. Not in a the entire thing was a massive conspiracy set up sort of way but in a more impulsive, like, some suit at home at some point during Alien pings Mother back to be like "oh poo poo an actual capital A Alien ship??? holy gently caress yeah, do it" so it and Ash go full crew expendable we have to get a sample of this back home no matter what. I thought of it that way because in Alien 3 and some other small bits I got the impression that, when we see BIG GREEN TEXT ON A BLACK SCREEN in Alien stuff we're seeing like a direct connection communication with the network/mother/some actual people on Earth itself and not the ship's specific computer. But it also makes sense that way and would explain why like, you talk to Mother via typing text messages into a way more advanced looking bright white light bright kind of room compared to everything else we see on the Nostromo. Like every profitable ship/space station/etc. facility probably has some kind of "we need to talk to an important person on earth NOW" way of communication, like how even on the run down refinery in Alien 3 they have a direct line to the network and can converse in almost real time on it. The terseness of it made me think it was less Mother talking and more folks at home talking and Mother giving the signal in English because [transmitting stuff across an insane distance quickly technobabble] reasons.
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Aug 14, 2019 14:28
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Special Order 937 makes it pretty clear that Ash was sent with a definite objective: bag a specimen. I always read it as the Company having an inkling that something was out there, and the Nostromo happened to be the next ship of theirs passing that way, so they planted Ash aboard just in case Mother picked up a definite sign. Who knows, though. Maybe the Company had sent half a dozen incredibly expensive ships like the Prometheus to find out what the gently caress happened to their previous expeditions, and finally decided that diverting an old tugboat by 'accident' had the same chance of success while being a hell of a lot cheaper.
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Aug 14, 2019 15:06
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I mean in that makes sense too, the company for whatever reasons thought hey maybe something was near that route possibly so they put Ash on the ship, then when they pick up an actual straight up signal Ash points out how they'd lose their shares if they don't follow it and that's it.
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Aug 14, 2019 15:35
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That has inspired a scenario idea when I get my Alien tabletop RPG: A derilect in space with a sargasso style amalgamated hulk of 5-6 different commercial/military/rescue ships docked together each diverted because they "happened to encounter a signal," to the point where it's almost comical when the PC's arrive.
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Aug 14, 2019 15:38
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Owlbear Camus posted:That has inspired a scenario idea when I get my Alien tabletop RPG: A derilect in space with a sargasso style amalgamated hulk of 5-6 different commercial/military/rescue ships docked together each diverted because they "happened to encounter a signal," to the point where it's almost comical when the PC's arrive. It does not go well.
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Aug 14, 2019 16:28
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Payndz posted:Special Order 937 makes it pretty clear that Ash was sent with a definite objective: bag a specimen. I always read it as the Company having an inkling that something was out there, and the Nostromo happened to be the next ship of theirs passing that way, so they planted Ash aboard just in case Mother picked up a definite sign. See that’s the thing: Ash was planted not to capture alien eggs but simply to spy on the workers. The ‘joke’ of Alien is that some computer programmers at the corporation told the Mothers to maximize profit and keep the workers down, then they put in some code about alien technology as an afterthought. Like, after 936 special orders, some guy said “maybe put something about aliens. You never know, right?” Mother is working independently based on these orders, and the point of making her a computer is that she takes these rules deadly serious. The programmers never intended it, but she decides that the crew is expendable. (Otherwise, Mother wouldn’t need to tell Ash that the crew is expendable. Ash would already know.) Keep in mind that Mother is literally just the autopilot on a tugboat. There are presumably thousands of these tugboats floating around. She isn’t special - she wasn’t designed to go fight ‘xenomorphs’. They just took a HAL-type computer and taught it capitalism. The resulting disaster was unforeseen but inevitable. Changing that changes the whole story, whereas the only ‘ramification’ of putting the creation of the alien egg in the year 2100 is that it makes stuff like AVP1 “non-canon.” Batman can’t fight the egg in 1992 because it hasn’t been invented yet. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 16:33
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 Heck yes.
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Aug 14, 2019 17:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Changing that changes the whole story, whereas the only ‘ramification’ of putting the creation of the alien egg in the year 2100 is that it makes stuff like AVP1 “non-canon.” Batman can’t fight the egg in 1992 because it hasn’t been invented yet. It's not anything specifically plot related that some people seem to have an issue with, it's that events of Covenant(and Prometheus to a much lesser extent) make the universe feel "smaller" and so it takes away from that Lovecraftian existential dread in the original film. I don't agree but it's an opinion I've heard a lot around here.
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Aug 14, 2019 17:31
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Owlbear Camus posted:
poo poo, those were meant for me. Did they get delivered to you by mistake? Could you forward them on to me? Thanks! Basebf555 posted:It's not anything specifically plot related that some people seem to have an issue with, it's that events of Covenant(and Prometheus to a much lesser extent) make the universe feel "smaller" and so it takes away from that Lovecraftian existential dread in the original film. I don't agree but it's an opinion I've heard a lot around here. Exactly. The prequels take a weird and ancient crashed extraterrestrial spacecraft carrying strange ancient horrors beyond imagination (with the implication that other such monsters could be lurking elsewhere in the dark, awaiting some luckless victims to stumble across them) and rewrites the weird extraterrestrials as literal humans who created terrestrial humanity, and the eldritch horror is only 20 years old and exists in an extremely limited scope. Humanity isn’t alone and insignificant in a cold, vast, and dangerously uncaring universe - they’re the central players in an interstellar vendetta in which they were specially created by “god”. Like, there are cool ideas in there - humanity learning that it was manufactured and then meeting their “gods” (and said gods hate them) is a cool idea. Those gods visually looking like idealized Roman sculptures is a cool idea. The cyclical motif of creations becoming creators and hating their creations is a cool idea. David creating something that’s meant to harm his creators is a cool idea. But those are all cool ideas that deserve to be in their own, separate series. The prequels kneecap some of the most interesting thematic elements from ‘Alien’, and end up getting hamstrung by necessary fanservice connections to ‘Alien’ in the process, and both components are worse off for it. It’s got nothing to do with comic books or AvP or whatever. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 17:51
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David created the alien, and that’s just awesome
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Aug 14, 2019 18:14
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CelticPredator posted:David created the alien, and that’s just awesome He created an alien.
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Aug 14, 2019 18:32
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The alien created David
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Aug 14, 2019 18:48
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After hours of quiet contemplation, I have concluded that I am canon.
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Aug 14, 2019 18:50
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The xenomorph is god and the black goo, face hugger, and David's experiments are all just different mechanisms for sublimating mortal flesh into something more like the divine. It's just that in the alien universe, god hates you specifically.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:04
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Xenomrph posted:After hours of quiet contemplation, I have concluded that I am canon. Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:The Xenomrph is god and the black goo, face hugger, and David's experiments are all just different mechanisms for sublimating mortal flesh into something more like the divine. It's just that in the alien universe, god hates you specifically.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:13
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Xenomrph posted:Exactly. The prequels take a weird and ancient crashed extraterrestrial spacecraft carrying strange ancient horrors beyond imagination (with the implication that other such monsters could be lurking elsewhere in the dark, awaiting some luckless victims to stumble across them) and rewrites the weird extraterrestrials as literal humans who created terrestrial humanity, and the eldritch horror is only 20 years old and exists in an extremely limited scope. Humanity isn’t alone and insignificant in a cold, vast, and dangerously uncaring universe - they’re the central players in an interstellar vendetta in which they were specially created by “god”. That's just totally false, though. The prequels are what make the xenomorph Lovecraftian (like, specifically shoggoth-type creatures which themselves are an emergent property of some sort of cosmic Azathoth-esque generative principle). If you ignore Prometheus and Covenant then they're basically big wasps.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:17
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MonsieurChoc posted:He created an alien. THE alien It is canon therefore fact!! canon does not lie! Canon is love. Canon is life.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:32
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CelticPredator posted:THE alien See my post above. 
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Aug 14, 2019 19:34
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Ferrinus posted:they're basically big wasps. 
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Aug 14, 2019 19:37
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Ferrinus posted:That's just totally false, though. The prequels are what make the xenomorph Lovecraftian (like, specifically shoggoth-type creatures which themselves are an emergent property of some sort of cosmic Azathoth-esque generative principle). If you ignore Prometheus and Covenant then they're basically big wasps. Gonna take the time to restate this: if you're a fan of Aliens and you haven't watched Them! (1954) then you are depriving yourself something fierce. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 20:13
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canon is only what i accept. david did not create the alien. the spacey jockey is not a pale bald bodybuilder.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:05
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