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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again. A Cruz or Rubio Presidency would be a worse timeline. You'd still have a terrible SCOTUS judge stealing a seat, you'd have someone equally as terrible as Devos, Pruitt and the FCC dude running those departments. Hell I bet you would still have Devos since she was going to buy the job no matter who the Republican in office was. And the President would be much more popular among the general populace because they'd be looking 'respectable' and not an embarrassing fuckup. This. Someone smart and evil enough to pass something popular that doesn't really cost them anything at the outset (Federal medical MJ? Mailing everyone a check like W?) so the normalcy-obsessed media could trip over themselves fawning over how everything's fine and Rubio is a uniter would have given them such a free hand to do so much more horrible poo poo.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:04
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Rigel posted:Assuming we all dont die, it may turn out fine. If we can assume hillary was destined to lose, then the gop got the most monkey paw president imaginable. Trump is utterly destroying their party. The Republicans will all be 'Trump who?' the day he's out of office just like they conveniently forgot Iraq or any other number of fuckups.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:05
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Rigel posted:Assuming we all dont die A surprisingly less safe assumption than I would have thought
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Oct 12, 2017 20:05
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Levitate posted:A surprisingly less safe assumption than I would have thought Yes, because I'm sure that the entire world is going to war over North Korea I'm joking, by the way
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Oct 12, 2017 20:07
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My concern is that Trump does not and in fact refuses to understand the gravity of launching a nuclear strike, especially a preemptive strike. The only thing stopping him from nuking Iran or Korea is the people who surround him. What happens if he stops listening to them, or they can't reach him in time? It's extremely scary.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:08
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Rex-Goliath posted:The Republicans will all be 'Trump who?' the day he's out of office just like they conveniently forgot Iraq or any other number of fuckups. They can try, but the voters are never going to forget or forgive this. When the olds really start to die out, they are going to be turbofucked.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:08
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Rigel posted:They can try, but the voters are never going to forget or forgive this. When the olds really start to die out, they are going to be turbofucked. Yeah but they'll gently caress it up irredeemably before then for us all
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Oct 12, 2017 20:09
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Rigel posted:They can try, but the voters are never going to forget or forgive this. When the olds really start to die out, they are going to be turbofucked. I posted earlier today a Quinipac poll that showed that Trumps approval rating for people under 35 is 17%.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:09
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Rigel posted:They can try, but the voters are never going to forget or forgive this. When the olds really start to die out, they are going to be turbofucked. So will everyone else, but for different reasons.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:09
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CascadeBeta posted:My concern is that Trump does not and in fact refuses to understand the gravity of launching a nuclear strike, especially a preemptive strike. The only thing stopping him from nuking Iran or Korea is the people who surround him. What happens if he stops listening to them, or they can't reach him in time? It's extremely scary. There is no literal red button that automatically launches the nukes, the order must go through other people to be carried out.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:10
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CascadeBeta posted:My concern is that Trump does not and in fact refuses to understand the gravity of launching a nuclear strike, especially a preemptive strike. The only thing stopping him from nuking Iran or Korea is the people who surround him. What happens if he stops listening to them, or they can't reach him in time? It's extremely scary. Yeah I mean this is probably some amount of chicken little'ing but for pretty much anyone else you can say "no way they'd do that, they'd know what a disaster that'd be and it'll never happen" but with Trump you really just don't know. I'm fairly certain he totally would nuke NK if he probably didn't have everyone screaming at him that it's a terrible idea. e: and yeah there's no magic red button but having the president pushing for launching nukes is a terrifying thought
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Oct 12, 2017 20:11
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haveblue posted:There is no literal red button that automatically launches the nukes, the order must go through other people to be carried out. I understand that, but those people are trained to launch at a moment's notice. It's not a big red button, but it requires people who have been trained for that one specific moment their entire lives to disobey a direct order. When do we learn that we're actually in a simulation of Shadow President being played by an rear end in a top hat teenager?
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Oct 12, 2017 20:12
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CascadeBeta posted:When do we learn that we're actually in a simulation of Shadow President being played by an rear end in a top hat teenager? I think that teenager is using a cheat. Whenever he doesn't do anything Trump's approval rating just crawls upwards, as if there's some sort of hack that just adds +1% every day no matter what.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:14
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CascadeBeta posted:My concern is that Trump does not and in fact refuses to understand the gravity of launching a nuclear strike, especially a preemptive strike. The only thing stopping him from nuking Iran or Korea is the people who surround him. What happens if he stops listening to them, or they can't reach him in time? It's extremely scary. Fairly certain Trump has already questioned why he can't use nukes against Syria and his handlers had to have a sitdown with him.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:16
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CascadeBeta posted:I understand that, but those people are trained to launch at a moment's notice. It's not a big red button, but it requires people who have been trained for that one specific moment their entire lives to disobey a direct order. There's a road bump of the SecDef and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs before keys get to turning.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:16
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cochise posted:Fairly certain Trump has already questioned why he can't use nukes against Syria and his handlers had to have a sitdown with him. That requires Trump to learn. We all know he's incapable of that.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:17
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Oh my god, those excerpts from Katy Tur's book are mind-bending.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:17
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mango sentinel posted:There's a road bump of the SecDef and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs before keys get to turning. There's not, at all. If the President has it in his mind to launch there is no party that can countermand that should it be a valid order (eg if the moron can actually remember his nuclear launch codes)
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Oct 12, 2017 20:18
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CascadeBeta posted:I understand that, but those people are trained to launch at a moment's notice. It's not a big red button, but it requires people who have been trained for that one specific moment their entire lives to disobey a direct order. I continue to believe that somewhere in the chain of command, someone has already decided 'yeah, we're not going to let this screaming madman extinguish thousands of lives because of a short temper.' Is that worth disobeying an order and all the punishments that would result? Yes. KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 20:18
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CascadeBeta posted:That requires Trump to learn. We all know he's incapable of that. But rocketman insulted him!
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Oct 12, 2017 20:19
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evilweasel posted:the one side thing that i did not mention is that Collins is a bit of a wildcard - I do not know if she would resign ahead of time making a special election in 2018, would resign only if she wins (and who would appoint her successor in that case, her or LePage). former means possible pickup but is unlikely. latter probably means there's a more doctrinare republican nominee (especially if lepage gets to nominate the person) instead of the most moderate R senator, making mcconnell's life a tiny bit easier I looked this up and, if she were willing, I think she'd have a hilarious and unlikely opportunity to gently caress with Page. New Congressional terms start on noon of the January 3rd. Maine: quote:The Governor shall be elected by the qualified electors, and shall hold the office for 4 years from the first Wednesday after the first Tuesday of January In 2019, January 1st is a Tuesday, so she would be sworn in on the 2nd, so technically she could hold onto her Senate seat until the very moment she becomes Governor. Edit// Ignore all that I forgot she wasn't up for election normally. farraday fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 20:19
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Party Plane Jones posted:There's not, at all. If the President has it in his mind to launch there is no party that can countermand that should it be a valid order (eg if the moron can actually remember his nuclear launch codes) Hmm This might have been poorly thought out.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:20
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CascadeBeta posted:I understand that, but those people are trained to launch at a moment's notice. It's not a big red button, but it requires people who have been trained for that one specific moment their entire lives to disobey a direct order. Just reading through the actual process, I legitimately am not sure if he has the cognitive capacity to confirm his identity, choose a strike plan, answer challenge codes, et cetera.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:21
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Party Plane Jones posted:There's not, at all. If the President has it in his mind to launch there is no party that can countermand that should it be a valid order (eg if the moron can actually remember his nuclear launch codes) They don't actually have power to review the decision and are required to verify the order and the identity of the President before the protocol can proceed. We've been over this before and it would be at best an immediate invocation of the 25th, at worst an on the spot coup, but they're still a screen before it gets to the guys drilled to murder the planet.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:21
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Looks like ppp will have some sweet polls shortly. https://twitter.com/AliLapp/status/918482737354432514
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Oct 12, 2017 20:21
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Rigel posted:Looks like ppp will have some sweet polls shortly. Can you loving imagine if Ryan gets iced. The House is shaping up to be a bloodbath and we're still one year and one Mueller report away from the midterm election.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:23
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Hmm It's meant to be so that the USA can respond fast in a M.A.D. situation. It probably should not work that way for an unprovoked first strike.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:23
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CascadeBeta posted:My concern is that Trump does not and in fact refuses to understand the gravity of launching a nuclear strike, especially a preemptive strike. The only thing stopping him from nuking Iran or Korea is the people who surround him. What happens if he stops listening to them, or they can't reach him in time? It's extremely scary. there's no automatic process for launching a nuke, trump has to tell a living human to do it and that person is subject to judgement calls about the president's state of mind
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Oct 12, 2017 20:23
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cochise posted:Fairly certain Trump has already questioned why he can't use nukes against Syria and his handlers had to have a sitdown with him. https://twitter.com/vicbergeriv/status/760837917627523072
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Oct 12, 2017 20:23
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Radish posted:Twitter leadership is making it very difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't sympathize with the uglier side of the Trump movement. It's as if they were happy Russia won 
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Oct 12, 2017 20:23
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CascadeBeta posted:I understand that, but those people are trained to launch at a moment's notice. It's not a big red button, but it requires people who have been trained for that one specific moment their entire lives to disobey a direct order. In many cases it is worse than that. A nuclear sub, for example, does monthly, sometimes weekly random firing drills where they receive a code and go through all normal firing procedures, save for the fact that the firing codes are all duds. If the order actually went out, it is entirely reasonable that the firing officers don't realize they are in a live fire situation until the missile is launched. Pretty much the only people who can stop a nuclear launch are in the white house. If Trump ever bullies the appropriate secretaries and/or gets out from under Kelly's thumb it is a frightingly real possibility.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:23
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Rigel posted:Looks like ppp will have some sweet polls shortly. Trump has been underwater since the day he announced and Ryan has been underwater every day since 2013 and he still managed to get re-elected by 20 and 35 points in the last two elections.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:24
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Rigel posted:Looks like ppp will have some sweet polls shortly. I'd say the Democratic strategy should be to tie Ryan to every Republican candidate like they do with Pelosi but then again the average conservative voter cares so little about actual policy and only about nebulous culture nonsense that it probably wouldn't be a very effective strategy.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:25
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Party Plane Jones posted:There's not, at all. If the President has it in his mind to launch there is no party that can countermand that should it be a valid order (eg if the moron can actually remember his nuclear launch codes) they can't countermand it but they can refuse to obey, really it comes down to "is trump's wrath and a possible court martial worth being the guy who greenlights a nuclear launch"
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Oct 12, 2017 20:26
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mango sentinel posted:They don't actually have power to review the decision and are required to verify the order and the identity of the President before the protocol can proceed. We've been over this before and it would be at best an immediate invocation of the 25th, at worst an on the spot coup, but they're still a screen before it gets to the guys drilled to murder the planet. everyone understands the president has the legal power to do it and nobody can legally countermand it. the question is, what people have the effective power to know what is happening and to stop it.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:26
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Kale posted:I don't think I've ever seen any other president make such a big deal out of signing executive orders. I'm not convinced they don't just keep reusing the exact same clip/photo of him doing it either. It's just typically pathetic Trump going "look at me I'm presidenting see!" If Congress could pass a single bill of note he wouldn't need to. It's a sign of the slow but steady transfer of power from the legislature to the executive, driven by the total gridlock in Congress.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:27
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Is there any chance that Randy Bryce might beat Ryan, or is that seat only vulnerable to a Republican primary challenge?
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Oct 12, 2017 20:27
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Caros posted:In many cases it is worse than that. That's like some Jonestown poo poo. Seems like a really bad idea, frankly.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:27
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boner confessor posted:they can't countermand it but they can refuse to obey, really it comes down to "is trump's wrath and a possible court martial worth being the guy who greenlights a nuclear launch" yeah the system is set up so who has the actual ability to know its a real order and stop it is the important question. nobody is concerned about if someone can legally countermand it, only if they have the effective power to know its a real launch and stop it.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:28
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Javes posted:I'd say the Democratic strategy should be to tie Ryan to every Republican candidate like they do with Pelosi but then again the average conservative voter cares so little about actual policy and only about nebulous culture nonsense that it probably wouldn't be a very effective strategy. It's not about switching conservative votes.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:28
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