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Force Awakens is not very pulpy anyways. Take the above image, for example. That's obviously the same style Attack Of The Clones. TFA, unlike recent films Prometheus and Avatar, has extremely little pulp influence. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 20:16
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Yorkshire Tea posted:When the Falcon gets swallowed up, the protagonists immediately think that this is the First Order doing this. But the ship itself is visually indistinct which doesn't mesh with anything that we've seen of the First Order during the first act. These motherfuckers want you to know it's them, an unmarked transport isn't their game. This isn't true, though. The very first image of the First Order is of a visually indistinct shadow eclipsing Jakku. In fact, I don't remember if we're ever shown a detailed look at the First Order battleship. I don't agree that the First Order wants people to know it's them, either. Their end game is to use a long range Death Star to snipe planets from hiding. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 20:18
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I associate the entire premise of sci-fi space operas to be pulpy by nature - whether or not they crib designs from back then. Star Wars in general as everyone knows is heavily based off serials of Flash Gordon.
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Feb 24, 2016 20:31
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Chucat posted:Wasn't Sheev from a book in the new EU, so it would have had nothing to do with Lucas at all. Lucas named Sheev
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Feb 24, 2016 20:46
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Vintersorg posted:I associate the entire premise of sci-fi space operas to be pulpy by nature - whether or not they crib designs from back then. Star Wars in general as everyone knows is heavily based off serials of Flash Gordon. Yeah, that's the blurb. The problem is that TFA doesn't actually resemble a Flash Gordon serial at all. There's no pulp aesthetic. It's not 'cheap', vibrant, lurid, etc. Guardians of the Galaxy - for all its faults - is a very good example of pulp sci-fi today.
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Feb 24, 2016 21:00
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homullus posted:Because what's better than a Death Star, or another Death Star? ANOTHER other Death Star, but instead of being, like, the size of a moon, it's the size of a PLANET! If the idea was to make an even scarier Death Star, why is it introduced in the last fourth of the movie and destroyed as an afterthought? Why does the Resistance lose a total of two pilots in taking it down? Why was it planned for the resistance to have a super nonweapon capable of busting death stars built and operational well in advance of Starkiller's introduction? Why is Lucas the only director allowed to be subversive? How many times must this post be made before detractors humor the concept of the Resistance being the new generation fully aware of Star Wars and its cliche's?
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Feb 24, 2016 21:04
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Neurolimal posted:If the idea was to make an even scarier Death Star, why is it introduced in the last fourth of the movie and destroyed as an afterthought? Why does the Resistance lose a total of two pilots in taking it down? Why was it planned for the resistance to have a super nonweapon capable of busting death stars built and operational well in advance of Starkiller's introduction? Because it's not played as a farce. The scene of not-Coursant being blown up was sober and dramatic, establishing poo poo just got real, which the embarassing failure of the Starkiller scenes to generate any tension (or even humour) completely fail to capitalise on. The only conclusion I can draw is the Starkiller subplot was forcibly inserted into the script alongside the Tie Fighters and X Wings and conspicuously practical effects to make TFA a 'real' Star Wars film in the way the PT wasn't considered to be by much of the fanbase, which ends up working against the novel things the film does try to do and steals screen time that would be better spent with Finn, Rey and Ren.
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Feb 24, 2016 21:13
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Neurolimal posted:If the idea was to make an even scarier Death Star, why is it introduced in the last fourth of the movie and destroyed as an afterthought? Why does the Resistance lose a total of two pilots in taking it down? Why was it planned for the resistance to have a super nonweapon capable of busting death stars built and operational well in advance of Starkiller's introduction? How is that subversive? What is it... subverting?
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Feb 24, 2016 21:18
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I love the idea that it's even possible for a Star Wars movie has too many "conspicuous" practical effects.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:06
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Subverting expectations would've been something like Kylo Ren capturing Rey and dragging her back to Starkiller...when they find out that the Resistance already blew it up before they got there.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:12
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computer parts posted:Subverting expectations would've been something like Kylo Ren capturing Rey and dragging her back to Starkiller...when they find out that the Resistance already blew it up before they got there. "...Huh."
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Feb 24, 2016 22:13
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Neo Rasa posted:I love the idea that it's even possible for a Star Wars movie has too many "conspicuous" practical effects. Well yeah, neither the OT or the PT made an effort to look deliberately naff, the effects in the OT were groundbreaking in its fidelity at the time. The practical effects in TFA weren't there because they were the best tool for the job, they were there because *waves vaguely about realness and childhood feels* No Dignity fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 22:17
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computer parts posted:Subverting expectations would've been something like Kylo Ren capturing Rey and dragging her back to Starkiller...when they find out that the Resistance already blew it up before they got there. Wouldn't that just be the scene where Luke/etc. find the Death Star in ANH but with Ren being intercepted by the Resistance?
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Feb 24, 2016 22:25
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multijoe posted:Well eyeah, either the OT or the PT made an effort to look deliberately naff, the effects in the OT were groundbreaking in its fidelity at the time. The practical effects in TFA weren't there because they were the best tool for the job, they were there because *waves vaguely about realness and childhood feels* Do you seriously think an extreme close up of a CGI bird would have been better in that shot?
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Feb 24, 2016 22:28
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Neo Rasa posted:Wouldn't that just be the scene where Luke/etc. find the Death Star in ANH but with Ren being intercepted by the Resistance? I didn't think about it when I wrote that but yeah. You could even have Kylo try to sneak around and disable the tractor beams or whatever on the Resistance planet before he can escape. You'd have to rewrite some of the movie though, but whatever.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:35
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Neo Rasa posted:Do you seriously think an extreme close up of a CGI bird would have been better in that shot? I think the point is that that shot only existed in the first place as a showcase for the practical effect. I don't really agree with that, but I don't think anybody's arguing that it should have been CG.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:35
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Neo Rasa posted:Do you seriously think an extreme close up of a CGI bird would have been better in that shot? I'm saying the only reason the bird was there was so the film could go point that it had ~practical effects~ unlike those films we don't talk about ^^ well, yes
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Feb 24, 2016 22:36
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Neurolimal posted:If the idea was to make an even scarier Death Star, why is it introduced in the last fourth of the movie and destroyed as an afterthought? Why does the Resistance lose a total of two pilots in taking it down? Why was it planned for the resistance to have a super nonweapon capable of busting death stars built and operational well in advance of Starkiller's introduction? One reason the Resistance only loses two pilots is that they didn't bother characterizing many pilots in their rush to do as much exposition and OT-honoring as possible. I don't think it was meant to be "the Death Star, but scarier." I think it was meant to be "we still want the bad guys to be known for genocide via big planet laser for this reboot, and we have to cram it into the first movie, so . . . it's the Death Star, but bigger."
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Feb 24, 2016 22:41
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homullus posted:So, this is true, right? But the problem is not that it's pulpy bullshit, the problem is that it was nigh meaningless. People leave the movie not even knowing what planet got starkilled, and even once you find out, it doesn't matter, because no characters are from there, no pulpy Star Wars bullshit takes place there, and Starkiller is also gone by the end. As SMG pointed out, it's a disjointed and vague location, that does something very like what we've seen before, to a planet we don't care about AT ALL, because we've never heard of it. No, I am not claiming we need to be shown that blowing up entire planets full of people is bad to believe it, but I am claiming that no work at all was put into making it an interesting thing. Pretty much. It's the difference between Bambi's mom getting shot versus some random deer in another part of the forest we've never even seen before. Sure it's not a good thing, but it's not going to make kids cry either.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:49
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homullus posted:One reason the Resistance only loses two pilots is that they didn't bother characterizing many pilots in their rush to do as much exposition and OT-honoring as possible. Also, as I pointed out earlier, it's the only example of star war in the movie. Without minor character Poe Dameron fighting to protect minor character General Leia from the minor Deathstar 3 plot point, the film is entirely about Rey looking for a new job while being harassed by a religious fundamentalist.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:52
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Lucas named Sheev I thought this was a joke name at first but I have to admit it kind of grew on me.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:53
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multijoe posted:I'm saying the only reason the bird was there was so the film could go point that it had ~practical effects~ unlike those films we don't talk about I don't think that was really the case, I mean of course it shows off the practical effects because it's a practical effect but look at how much of Jakku is practical. Like any of the times Rey is on line there's that dude with the cage with a ton of those birds poking around in it (this was one of the first costume/props revealed of the film a couple of years ago to massive praise from this forum) and a ton of other outfits but it's barely noticeable. Having a single shot of a mangy bird picking at stuff is a perfectly appropriate addition to shots that are all meant to say "we're on an abandoned wasteland shithole" so it didn't really stand out to me beyond "that bird puppet is pretty cool." There are tons of obviously practical effects throughout the movie so I don't really get why the internet has latched onto this one two second shot as gratuitous. You could make a better case for how the technology is at a point now where they could have not shot on location in exchange for some more bizarre looking set/CG scenery with it being more convincing than the prequels.
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Feb 24, 2016 22:53
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homullus posted:One reason the Resistance only loses two pilots is that they didn't bother characterizing many pilots in their rush to do as much exposition and OT-honoring as possible. I just don't see why you would assume the worst, most unenjoyable reading over the one supported by...the rest of the film. Consider that, during the Starkiller sequence, Rey frees herself by embracing her role as a Protagonist in a Star Wars film, Han Solo attempts to use his knowledge of Star Wars to persuade his son (which fails, because despite belonging to an order of Old Star Wars idealists and worshipping Darth Vader, Kylo Ren is a unique character belonging to New Star Wars), and Rey overpowers Kylo Ren after fleeing to a New Star Wars environment. In spite of all this, you are asking that we believe that the base's derivativeness and weakness to New Star Wars is because....the writers dont do think well and love movie?
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Feb 24, 2016 23:01
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Neurolimal posted:Consider that, during the Starkiller sequence, Rey frees herself by embracing her role as a Protagonist in a Star Wars film, Han Solo attempts to use his knowledge of Star Wars to persuade his son (which fails, because despite belonging to an order of Old Star Wars idealists and worshipping Darth Vader, Kylo Ren is a unique character belonging to New Star Wars), and Rey overpowers Kylo Ren after fleeing to a New Star Wars environment. My contention would be that the Starkiller Base takes up screentime that could have been used to better flesh out the ideas you mention above, which are good, while not really adding anything. You could remove that entire plot, stick with Luke as the MacGuffin, and barely have to change anything. Nothing the main characters do is ever really motivated by the Starkiller. Finn and Han aren't really going back because they care about destroying it, not enough to risk their lives; they're both just trying to save someone (Rey and Ben).
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Feb 24, 2016 23:09
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Neurolimal posted:I just don't see why you would assume the worst, most unenjoyable reading over the one supported by...the rest of the film. It's plausible that the First Order is one-upping even the memorabilia-collecting characters, by being "that guy" who builds a "real life" Death Star out of Legos on his home planet or w/e. Unlike the character-driven examples, however, the First Order is literally nothing but an Empire stand-in name and a freakishly large hologram. But again, what does it mean? Rey leaves her Star Wars toys on Jakku for the real thing. Maz gives her autographed championship glowbat away to somebody who might actually swing it. Kylo Ren may or may not have retained the mask and ashes of his actual grandfather, depending on how much rage he's able to mine from his more personal defeat. Nobody we know built Starkiller, nobody we know gets killed by Starkiller, one person we know helps it get blasted (BECAUSE STAR WARS), nobody loves that they had it, and nobody misses it when it's gone. The first Death Star is the pride of the Imperial Navy, the second Palpatine's great stratagem. Starkiller is nothing to nobody, and is destroyed before it becomes anything to anybody.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:13
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computer parts posted:Subverting expectations would've been something like Kylo Ren capturing Rey and dragging her back to Starkiller...when they find out that the Resistance already blew it up before they got there. That would've been badass.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:20
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That's fair, I'm far more content with the suggestion that Starkiller doesn't mean enough, over the suggestion that it was 100% pointless and obligatory. I feel like it works in establishing that, in New Star Wars, Old Star Wars beats are obsolete and overexposed. I feel like it will work well when the trilogy is completed, especially since Episode 8's director has been noted saying that he likes that the Prequel Trilogy tried new things different from the OT.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:25
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quote:The first Death Star is the pride of the Imperial Navy, the second Palpatine's great stratagem. Starkiller is nothing to nobody, and is destroyed before it becomes anything to anybody. Just wanted to quickly draw attention to this. It's meant as a condemnation of the inclusion of Starkiller in the film, but I think it works well as an in-film critique of the weapon; there's no passion involved in it; it literally exists because the Empire had a deathstar, and the Empire was strong, therefore if First Order has a Deathstar, they are strong. Hux's speech of recreating a New Empire almost works as a joke buildup, where revealing "hey, it's a third Death Star." Is the punch-line. The weapon fails because it is entirely pointless and serves no real strategical purpose, and because it is a retread of Old Star Wars with few new ideas it gets crushed and lambasted by people who have already seen a Death Star before, and are as unimpressed as the audience. Like you say, nobody gives it the gravitas it demanda; all the focus is on its one new trait (eating suns to power itself up and simultaneously kill off life in the solar system).
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Feb 24, 2016 23:33
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Neurolimal posted:That's fair, I'm far more content with the suggestion that Starkiller doesn't mean enough, over the suggestion that it was 100% pointless and obligatory. Isn't one of the different things Rian hinted at was following the training, personal growth, etc of the villain?
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Feb 24, 2016 23:34
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Canemacar posted:Isn't one of the different things Rian hinted at was following the training, personal growth, etc of the villain? Maybe he'll focus on the First Order side of things. It would make for an interesting and depressing take while fitting the formula of the middle episode being the "low-point"; focusing entirely on the children of First Order struggling to comprehend their defeat, where they went wrong, their convictions, maintaining morale, intercut with Rey struggling to learn from Luke due to her violent nature. The final beats of the episode could involve Kylo completing his training and searching for Rey, and Rey rebelling from Luke and searching for Kylo to prove her capability as a Jedi, which leads to her defeat to a newly resolute and determined Kylo, setting up the final episode war between a reformed First Order and weakened Republic + Rey and Finnless Resistance.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:43
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I hope a Death Star is in every Star Wars film going forward and that they add one into Empire Strikes Back also for people who didn't notice that the ion cannon is a massive sphere that shoots powerful laser blasts.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:55
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Canemacar posted:Isn't one of the different things Rian hinted at was following the training, personal growth, etc of the villain? Thematically it's the only thing that makes sense, I'm pretty sure Ren (possibly the FO overall) is going to be less of a villain as the film goes on. Where else can his character go? Rey's mirrored training will show her getting more powerful but also angrier, more impatient. When they rematch he'll still be the bad guy and she'll still be the good guy but the lines will have blurred, and when Ren wins I think the turning point for them both will be him sparing her.
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Feb 25, 2016 01:13
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Kylo Ren's arc will probably be similar to Zuko's in Avatar: The Last Airbender.
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Feb 25, 2016 01:15
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I've only seen the movie. and I don't remember it. Or care. kylo ren is dope though.
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Feb 25, 2016 01:16
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computer parts posted:Kylo Ren's arc will probably be similar to Zuko's in Avatar: The Last Airbender. Hopefully that includes the episode where Zuko and Aang have to hang out with some ancient Mayans and go on a dance contest vision quest with huge dragons to learn more about the force.
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Feb 25, 2016 02:05
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Instead of dragons it's sarlaccs.
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Feb 25, 2016 03:04
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computer parts posted:Kylo Ren's arc will probably be similar to Zuko's in Avatar: The Last Airbender. But who will he fight in the side-show final confrontation while Rey takes on Snoke Weed Everyday?
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Feb 25, 2016 03:22
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Barudak posted:But who will he fight in the side-show final confrontation while Rey takes on Snoke Weed Everyday? Obviously just like how he ended up fighting his sister Ren will also fight a powerful woman who is technically his ally but is basically nuts and is a psychotic disciplinarian named Captain Phasma.
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Feb 25, 2016 03:25
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About six weeks or so until this comes out on Blu, and we can discover through detailed frame-by frame analysis whether or not this film was good.
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Feb 25, 2016 05:59
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MrMojok posted:About six weeks or so until this comes out on Blu, and we can discover through detailed frame-by frame analysis whether or not this film was good. This, but unironically. ...I enjoy picking through background details in still shots. Maz's cantina is going to be fun.
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Feb 25, 2016 06:16
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