|
jeffersonlives posted:The Titan company line regarding Over The Edge has always been that they were so in shock that they just kept going out of inertia and a general show must go on mentality. Frankly, the idea that they put on a tribute show for someone they knew was the primary suspect in a double murder/suicide has always struck me as the shakier decision of Vince's two big "why the gently caress did this show happen" moments. Did they know? I guess I always assumed they learned when we did.
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 04:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:31 |
|
|
Wasn't the story that the details that Benoit committed the murders didn't start to come out until right around when the tribute show started, and didn't solidify until about halfway through this live, tribute show, leading to stuff like William Regal doing his best to still say nice things without actually saying anything that nice?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 04:45
|
|
|
The Benoit Raw was the first Raw I watched in years, and I followed along with the gameday thread here. I recall a lot of people thinking it was something like a carbon monoxide leak at the start of the show, and horrifying details coming out as the gameday thread progressed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 04:55
|
|
|
Yeah, it was about an hour and twenty minutes into the show that the Atlanta Sheriff's Department informed WWE and the local news that the working police theory was double murder / suicide. (I can't imagine how that phone call went. "Uh, you might want to know that it looks like your guy strangled his wife and son and then hanged himself.") Almost immediately, the entire tone of the show shifted (guys were saying things like, "Man, what can I say about Chris ... uh ... you know, he was really intense"), and I think they actually started scrubbing Benoit from WWE.com later that night.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 04:56
|
|
|
DannoMack posted:The Benoit Raw was the first Raw I watched in years, and I followed along with the gameday thread here. I recall a lot of people thinking it was something like a carbon monoxide leak at the start of the show, and horrifying details coming out as the gameday thread progressed. What if Nancy did it? Bitches be crazy! Maybe it was Kevin Sullivan?! Oh goons
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 05:01
|
|
|
Both Dave Meltzer and Michael Benoit (indirectly) were told by high-level WWE officials that Chris Benoit was the killer in the 6 o'clock hour. I don't think Dave has revealed his source, Michael Benoit's was Carl DeMarco, who at the time was running WWE's Canadian operations and was a member of Vince's inner circle. The word didn't leak publicly until some time into the tribute show, although there were certainly hints in how some news articles and interviews were worded. Here's some of Irv Muchnick's interview with Michael Benoit; he was notified via DeMarco at 6:45 ET/4:45 MT. Irv Muchnick posted:Mike Benoit was summoned home by Margaret. He pulled into the driveway around 4:45 p.m. Zerr greeted him there “and told me that Chris had taken the lives of Nancy and Daniel and then taken his own life,” Benoit says. “This information had been given to [Zerr] by WWE.”
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 05:04
|
|
|
I've actually been using Irv Muchnick's book "Chris and Nancy: The true story of the Benoit murder-suicide and pro wrestling's COCKTAIL OF DEATH" as a mouse pad for the past few weeks. A lot of the book is about trying to piece together what WWE knew when, and how that colours their actions. There's a lot of weird conflicting time lines and stories and unaccounted for loose ends. I don't remember a lot of the details, but I do remember it being possibly the most depressing thing I've ever read.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 05:53
|
|
|
Perry Normal posted:I've actually been using Irv Muchnick's book "Chris and Nancy: The true story of the Benoit murder-suicide and pro wrestling's COCKTAIL OF DEATH" as a mouse pad for the past few weeks. The Wikipedia article being the weirdest, of course. Didn't his Wikipedia article get edited like hours before anyone knew anything?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 06:24
|
|
|
Lone Rogue posted:The Wikipedia article being the weirdest, of course. Didn't his Wikipedia article get edited like hours before anyone knew anything? Yeah, some guy who happened to live in Stamford randomly vandalized the page saying that the reason Benoit was at home on that weekend was because Nancy died. Then two hours later the police found the bodies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 06:27
|
|
|
Perry Normal posted:I've actually been using Irv Muchnick's book "Chris and Nancy: The true story of the Benoit murder-suicide and pro wrestling's COCKTAIL OF DEATH" as a mouse pad for the past few weeks. There's lots of other circumstantial evidence - I mean christ, take a look at Regal's video from that same show - but the only hard evidence is that Dave and Michael Benoit were told before the show by WWE people. It's entirely possible that they didn't believe it, but it was still risky as all get out to have heard that from law enforcement and run that show (yet alone replay it on the west coast USA feed after the story had fully broke). Years later I am still not sure how that and the crossface parts never became part of the mainstream story, other than that Vince McMahon has some sort of divine power from his Backlash victory over Shawn Michaels and God. Irv Muchnick is kinda nuts and has burned a lot of sources by revealing them, but his reporting on the timeline stuff is all pretty much substantiated elsewhere, mostly the Observer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 06:38
|
|
|
I never took the Regal and Co videos as evidence that they knew he was the killer, just that they feared it. You know that cliche of some guy being caught as a monster and then his neighbors, friends, and family are shocked and say "I never would have imagined"? No one seems to say that about Benoit. Rather I thought those videos were a bunch of people who knew Benoit well enough that when told his family died a violent death and he had disappeared for days before that were able to put the pieces together and feared the worst. Hence them being all weirdly stone faced, talking about him as a wrestler and less as a person, and having those awkwardly cold and seemingly restrained opinions. Maybe Regal knew more or maybe he just was more confident in his theory. Point is I don't think those videos are really necessarily evidence that they knew as they could be easily explained by acknowledging that everyone knew Benoit was crazy and didn't doubt that he could have done it. Which really just kind of makes WWE's decision even harder to swallow. Even assuming they didn't know Benoit was suspected at the time many of their employees obviously knew what kind of tightly wound, violent, and bizarre man Benoit was and that he had behaved so strangely in the prior days. I remember well before we heard the news I and friends were already fearing the worst based on what we knew about Benoit and the situation, without the advantage of knowing him personally or knowing the details of that weekend. As we watched RAW we were getting freaked out because we felt the profile of the man we were receiving was that of a great wrestler greatly respected for his craft but widely regarded to be a tightly wound, strict, bottled up, disciplinarian. And that made us all look at each other and raise an eyebrow. So certainly WWE had to have been able to do the same thing and it seemed obvious that someone like Regal had.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 06:54
|
|
|
Man it must have been such a weird panic that Monday. Gotta wonder how many plans they went through before they settled on the idea of doing a show, but sending the crowd home. A weird decision that crystalized one of the darkest and most interesting days in wrestling history. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 07:11
|
|
|
To me criticing wwe for this or owen is just not worth it, both are complex situations that truly do not have right or wrong solutions. While maybe some people in wwe knew the details of Benoit's death, this is the same company that has problems communicating on a good day, much less on a day when many people are devastated and grieving.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 07:19
|
|
|
I thought the weirdest part was the Dave Taylor mystery. He and his wife apparently showed up at Benoit's house just as the neighbour had gone in and discovered the bodies. They were bringing "prepared dishes of deli food, such as would be offered to console a bereaved family" and according to the neighbour looked like they already knew what happened. They then apparently called the neighbour a few times in the following weeks just to emphasize to her that they didn't want her to think that they had known anything before hand. Taylor insisted to Muchnick that he was in Texas with the WWE crew the whole time. Muchnick theorizes that they were basically WWE's spies on the scene, so to speak. The food pates, I think, could easily be them bringing something over after hearing the food poisoning story but who knows? Muchnick goes into spergy detail about how not only would a deli tray be a lovely thing to bring someone getting over food poisoning, but that, by southern standards, their deli trays were very poorly put together.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 07:43
|
|
|
Gus Sawchuk posted:A long time ago someone posted a video clip from the Japanese promotion DDT where a wrestler was doing a promo about some kind of crazy match type they were having. I seem to remember the names of weapons making up an acronym that was the name of the match. During the promo, the wrestler kept doing this chant that ended with "gently caress gently caress". Does anyone know what I'm talking about or have a link to the video? I know this is from last page, but I have to respond because its one of my favorite segments from any wrestling promotion. Behold, the CUBAN death match! As for Antonio's use of the word gently caress, his character was supposed to be some sort of Italian mafioso, probably inspired by classics like the Godfather and Good-fellas. He often peppered his speech with f-bombs and indulged in something called "Italian Powder". Hi-larious!
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 08:29
|
|
|
Does anyone know if Jose Lothario attended the HoF?? Whatever happened to him?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 16:37
|
|
|
So are there any really good singles matches under The Miz's belt? Because I haven't seen one yet. Please direct me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 16:46
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:So are there any really good singles matches under The Miz's belt? Because I haven't seen one yet. Please direct me. It's messy due to interference, but his first match with Jerry Lawler the week after he won the title was really good. Part of it was because I didn't know Lawler still wrestled and was not expecting it to be any good at all, but it was suspenseful and a good show for both guys.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 16:50
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:So are there any really good singles matches under The Miz's belt? Because I haven't seen one yet. Please direct me. Miz/Bryan matches were good. Miz/R-Truth had a surprisingly good random PPV match last year, too (Fatal 4-Way?).
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 16:54
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:So are there any really good singles matches under The Miz's belt? Because I haven't seen one yet. Please direct me. He is really boring in the ring. Maybe not bad but can't build an exciting match and thus boring. He could probably put his opponents to sleep by facing them. Maybe it should be his gimmick.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 16:57
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:So are there any really good singles matches under The Miz's belt? Because I haven't seen one yet. Please direct me. His match against John Morrison on the first RAW of 2011 was a fun match. It was basically a JoMo offensive showcase though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 16:58
|
|
|
Chinston Wurchill posted:Miz/Bryan matches were good. Miz/R-Truth had a surprisingly good random PPV match last year, too (Fatal 4-Way?). Truth and Miz have had a couple of fun TV matches on Raw too, especially the first one where Truth won the United States championship which had him busting out some pretty awesome suplex stunners and spider germans.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 17:37
|
|
|
Why do you guys think the Ultimate Warrior is the only guy they've made a DVD about how much of a douche he was? I mean he wasn't the only guy who has hosed over Vince on a payday or had a bad attitude. So why is he the only guy they've basically told the truth about? I wish they would do more, it's one of my favorite WWE dvds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:16
|
|
|
Because he really is that much of a douchebag.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:17
|
|
|
Yeah, he appears to have burned his bridges with every human being on the planet.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:21
|
|
|
Spikeguy posted:Why do you guys think the Ultimate Warrior is the only guy they've made a DVD about how much of a douche he was? I mean he wasn't the only guy who has hosed over Vince on a payday or had a bad attitude. So why is he the only guy they've basically told the truth about? I wish they would do more, it's one of my favorite WWE dvds. Because Warrior's the only guy they have no interest whatsoever in doing business with ever again. There's no reason for them to go scorched earth on anyone else, even Brock.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:24
|
|
|
The No DQ match between Bryan/JoMo/Miz was great because it played to everyone's strength. It let Miz look like a big brawler, using whatever he found near him to hurt his opponents.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:30
|
|
|
Spikeguy posted:Why do you guys think the Ultimate Warrior is the only guy they've made a DVD about how much of a douche he was? I mean he wasn't the only guy who has hosed over Vince on a payday or had a bad attitude. So why is he the only guy they've basically told the truth about? I wish they would do more, it's one of my favorite WWE dvds. He was a giant douche, and a terrible wrestler to boot. Plus his actual career was pretty short, but he's still one of the most recognized names/images in wrestling, so they probably felt like they should do some kind of DVD about him, but there's not much to praise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:44
|
|
|
Plus - can you imagine an entire DVD of Warrior matches without the entertaining roasting going on? Torture.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:48
|
|
|
They turned it into a hachet job after Warrior refused to work with WWE on it. It would have been just like any other WWE superstar dvd otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:54
|
|
|
MrBling posted:They turned it into a hachet job after Warrior refused to work with WWE on it. They had a similar hatchet job planned for Bret before he agreed didn't they?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:56
|
|
|
Giedroyc posted:They had a similar hatchet job planned for Bret before he agreed didn't they? Allegedly the working title for the Bret DVD was 'Screwed' before he and Vince made up and we got the version that was released.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 18:57
|
|
Gaz-L posted:Allegedly the working title for the Bret DVD was 'Screwed' before he and Vince made up and we got the version that was released. They actually finished the production of 'Screwed' before Hart got on board at the very last minute. Its rumoured Bret has a copy of the hatchet job version.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 19:00
|
|
|
Mr. Carlisle posted:Plus - can you imagine an entire DVD of Warrior matches without the entertaining roasting going on? Torture. At the same time, an entire DVD of Warrior promos without any commentary or explanation at all would be kind of awesome. They could use it for rave backgrounds.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 19:03
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:At the same time, an entire DVD of Warrior promos without any commentary or explanation at all would be kind of awesome. They could use it for rave backgrounds. Right now i am picturing a gay club dancing to Barbara Streisand by Duck Sauce while huge screens have Warrior doing his promos in the background and the music pauses every in between tracks and wherever Warrior is at in the promo we hear a word or sentence and then back to music.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 19:08
|
|
|
Skinty McEdger posted:They actually finished the production of 'Screwed' before Hart got on board at the very last minute. Its rumoured Bret has a copy of the hatchet job version. Speaking of which, I remember hearing a few years back they were gonna do a second Bret DVD/match comp, but if it was ever released I sure as poo poo never heard about it. Anyone else hear about this? Did it ever see the light of day?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 19:14
|
|
|
Warrior's been in a few good/great matches vs Honky's team Survivor Series 88 vs Rude Summerslam 89 vs Heenan family SS 89 vs Hogan Wrestlemania VI vs Savage Wrestlemania VII (still fantastic) I think a lot of the dislike for him comes from either the internet's 'workrate' obsession, his own insane views/career choices since the time or if you simply weren't a certain age around his peak. Everyone I knew loved Warrior and were bored by Hogan, I mean a balding man lecturing you about praying and taking vitamins or a greasepaint tasseled lunatic with cool theme music who tagged with the Legion of Doom? no contest.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 19:55
|
|
|
Nah, Warrior was legitimately really terrible. The only one of those matches that was better than average was the Savage match, and Randy Savage basically never had a less-than-great big singles match in his WWF career.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 20:02
|
|
|
ProFro posted:Speaking of which, I remember hearing a few years back they were gonna do a second Bret DVD/match comp, but if it was ever released I sure as poo poo never heard about it. Anyone else hear about this? Did it ever see the light of day? They did a Hart Family one last year...
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 20:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:31 |
|
|
have we had a Miz/Morrison feud? I know they tagged and broke up, and we had Miz/Morrison/Bryan in a submissions match, but considering Miz is now WWE champ and Morrison has been on an upwards trajectory for some time, I really think you could do a feud that would elevate both of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2011 21:29
|
|
