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88h88 posted:Or you could just, y'know, learn to drive properly? No, the point is that the testing standard is flawed so you are guaranteed to lose points if you're driving a manual. Granted, you still should be able to pass the test after losing 15 points, but why bother? The lest isn't hard per se, but it's long enough, subjective enough and fiddly enough that it makes no sense to give the examiner additional reasons to be picky, especially on the longer advanced test to get your unrestricted license. PT6A fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 19:33
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mobby_6kl posted:From what I've seen, manual cars are a rarity in the US. That said, I find limiting the license to automatic only, like it's done in some places here, quite silly. Once you're comfortable driving an automatic, it's a matter of an hour or two to get used to shifting gears yourself. The transmission isn't the hard part of driving a car, it's all the other stupid rules and poo poo. So why not just do it from the start? Reading on driving school forums / other forums about auto-licenses (still anecdotal) confirms my belief that the people who want it because it's faster / or (mostly) because they never learn to use the clutch. In general, the restrictions seem much tighter here. We have 3 separate licenses just for motorcycles (light, medium, heavy), one for towing heavy trailers. Even one for mopeds. As far as I know, you have to take a driving test for each of the qualifications. For instance, to be allowed to drive a motorcycle that is classed as heavy (>125cc, >11KW), you have to be >24 years old, or had a qualification for medium sized motorcycles for at least 2 years in which case you only have to be 20 years old. I hope that gives better context to how it works, and what the mindset here is.
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Feb 16, 2016 19:36
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PT6A posted:No, the point is that the testing standard is flawed so you are guaranteed to lose points if you're driving a manual. Granted, you still should be able to pass the test after losing 15 points, but why bother? The lest isn't hard per se, but it's long enough, subjective enough and fiddly enough that it makes no sense to give the examiner additional reasons to be picky, especially on the longer advanced test to get your unrestricted license. So what you're saying is, the instructors and the people who wrote the test don't know how to drive manuals. Got it.
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Feb 16, 2016 19:52
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MrOnBicycle posted:a motorcycle that is classed as heavy (>125cc, >11KW) HAHAHA. I don't think you can buy a motorcycle less than 125cc here*, and those are super rare. There's a handful of popular 250cc models, most people go straight for a 500cc sportbike, 650cc cruiser, or 883cc Sportster. Anything less than 125cc is a scooter with an automatic transmission and can be ridden with a regular driver's license. The only restriction I know about in IL is that you have to take a rider's course if you are under 18. No school required if you are over 18, you can just take the test. *Maybe dirtbikes? I don't know much about those.
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Feb 16, 2016 20:03
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88h88 posted:So what you're saying is, the instructors and the people who wrote the test don't know how to drive manuals. Got it. The examiners and instructors know how to drive standard, but whoever wrote the test standards wasn't really thinking about it and the examiners don't have discretion to ignore violations of the test standard, even when it's dumb.
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Feb 16, 2016 20:05
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Uthor posted:HAHAHA. I don't think you can buy a motorcycle less than 125cc here*, and those are super rare. There's a handful of popular 250cc models, most people go straight for a 500cc sportbike, 650cc cruiser, or 883cc Sportster. Anything less than 125cc is a scooter with an automatic transmission and can be ridden with a regular driver's license. Yeah I know nothing about motorcycles. 125cc tells me nothing about the speed / size / danger. They also mention "net effect can't be higher than 35KW for the mediums", after that it's a heavy bike.. but they still say 11KW is heavy bike. Ok I guess. I'm not interested enough in bikes to find out the specifics.
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Feb 16, 2016 20:47
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PCOS Bill posted:I should give my dad a call and ask if he thinks manuals will be around in another 10, just to rile him up. He's getting closer to right in the US though I'd estimate that fewer than 1 in 10 cars in the USA have manual transmissions.
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Feb 16, 2016 21:00
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MrOnBicycle posted:Yeah I know nothing about motorcycles. 125cc tells me nothing about the speed / size / danger. They also mention "net effect can't be higher than 35KW for the mediums", after that it's a heavy bike.. but they still say 11KW is heavy bike. Ok I guess. I'm not interested enough in bikes to find out the specifics. I think engine size is a flawed metric anyway. An 883cc twin Harley is absolutely nothing compared to a 600cc inline four supersport, but the bigger displacement makes it seem more "dangerous" to regulators and insurance companies.
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Feb 16, 2016 21:14
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A quick google search puts manuals as 6.7% in 2010, 3.9% in 2013 in the US in new sales. I didn't verify this information, though.
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Feb 16, 2016 21:15
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I got commended for rev-matching on downshifts by my elderly driving instructor.  Then told not to do it on the test because the examiner won't like it. 
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Feb 16, 2016 21:21
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um excuse me posted:A quick google search puts manuals as 6.7% in 2010, 3.9% in 2013 in the US in new sales. I didn't verify this information, though. Those numbers seem low, but honestly they're probably right. Can't believe I found a 2015 Mazda6 with a manual. jammyozzy posted:I got commended for rev-matching on downshifts by my elderly driving instructor. That doesn't make any sense. I guess they'd rather ding you for jerky downshifts?
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Feb 16, 2016 21:44
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:That doesn't make any sense. I guess they'd rather ding you for jerky downshifts? I would guess that if an examiner don't know how to drive manual, they'd interpret the blip as showing off or incompetence. So smoke that clutch, it's fine. 
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Feb 16, 2016 21:50
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^^^ That's weird but I guess it's a free pass to slip or dump the clutch like a dumbass! MrOnBicycle posted:So why not just do it from the start? Well, sure. But there are reasons - maybe you just broke your left foot, or would find concentrating on the driving aspect easier without having to think about gears and revs. Or like in my case, my parents had an automatic car so I could get some practice in parking lots or in the boonies somewhere. As for bikes, I'm not into that poo poo either, but the different levels here are:
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Feb 16, 2016 21:52
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xzzy posted:I would guess that if an examiner don't know how to drive manual, they'd interpret the blip as showing off or incompetence. So smoke that clutch, it's fine. I'm surprised tests even account for how well you treat your car. If some dude wants to ruin his clutch or ride around at redline, I don't give a poo poo as long as he follows the traffic rules.
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Feb 16, 2016 23:27
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Hikaki posted:I'm surprised tests even account for how well you treat your car. If some dude wants to ruin his clutch or ride around at redline, I don't give a poo poo as long as he follows the traffic rules. "Why is the car making that sounds? Is he mistaking the gas for the clutch? That's 15 points!"
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Feb 16, 2016 23:49
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So, I need an opinion from this thread. There's an intersection near by building where all the Calgary Transit buses queue for rush hour service, taking up the right lane for the entire block (which is, legally speaking, a legal place to park on the street). I have to make a right turn at the intersection, which is controlled by normal traffic lights, and right turns on red are permitted in my jurisdiction. Since the buses are parked right up to the intersection, I'm in the middle lane with my right turn signal on. I don't turn left on red, because I'm in the middle lane and I'm sure that's not legal. When the light turns, the bus to my right goes straight through the intersection. As far as I can tell, I'm legally obligated to give way to them, and I did. However, I contend that, legal or not, it's a massive dick move for the bus to do that, and considering that they've hosed up the entire right lane on this block, they should wait for all right-turning traffic to clear before proceeding, especially because it's not obvious that what they're going to do. All the buses have their hazard flashers on, so it's impossible to tell that the bus is indicating left in preparation to leave. I only noticed because I heard the airbrakes being let off. Thoughts?
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Feb 17, 2016 15:03
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PT6A posted:Thoughts? Busses are assholes and do whatever they want whenever they want. You can't do anything about that, change must come from within.
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Feb 17, 2016 15:20
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PT6A posted:Thoughts? Dang. Is it at all possible to snake in front of the lead bus without blocking traffic going through the intersection? If so, I'd say that. If not, gently caress if I know.
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Feb 17, 2016 15:28
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No one wants to be stuck behind a bus, which means if a bus driver actually waited for the road to clear before they started moving, they'd just stay in one spot and get fired for messing up their schedule. It's not ideal, but it's the world we've all created.
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Feb 17, 2016 15:29
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sleepy.eyes posted:Dang. Is it at all possible to snake in front of the lead bus without blocking traffic going through the intersection? If so, I'd say that. If not, gently caress if I know. I would have to enter and then stop on the crosswalk, which is neither legal, nor considerate, nor safe, because the buses park right up to the stop line at the intersection. Sometimes on the same block, they will also block the second lane as they wait for space to open up (not a legal parking zone). It's a horrible system and I blame the transit operator for not having a proper place to stage their buses.
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Feb 17, 2016 15:49
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friend of a friend posted this on facebook... Got rearended. Guy flipped him off and ran. Wait, what's that?  The perp's license plate stuck to the trailer ball hitch.   Cristian Badiu posted:So I get rear ended. Guy pulls back goes around me flipping me off. I'm like great hit and freaking run what a day! I get out of the car and here's what I find: the idiot's license plate is stuck to my hitch!!! World dumbest criminal! It took 30 seconds for Marion PD to find this dude!! I love it when stuff like this ends well. kastein fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 16:01
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Is he an officer himself, or is that a "I totally support cops, don't give me a ticket plz.  " plate border?Also curious what that thought process was "hmm I clearly hit someone, I think I'll flip him off like it's his fault. Yes this is a reasonable decision to make."
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Feb 17, 2016 16:08
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I have no idea what he does for work. I assume it's a "please don't ticket me" license plate frame. As for the hit and run, people are stupid. I don't know why anyone would do that if they had their own license plates on their car, especially in this day and age of dashcams and cellphones with high resolution cameras.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:12
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um excuse me posted:A quick google search puts manuals as 6.7% in 2010, 3.9% in 2013 in the US in new sales. I didn't verify this information, though. Probably about right, but at this point a manual trans is probably the best anti-theft device you can get. Others mentioned it here but it's always hilarious to hear about someone who couldn't steal a car because they can't drive stick 
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Feb 17, 2016 16:23
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Ozz81 posted:Probably about right, but at this point a manual trans is probably the best anti-theft device you can get. Others mentioned it here but it's always hilarious to hear about someone who couldn't steal a car because they can't drive stick That was true even a fair number of years ago. I used to have a job locating underground utilities (10-12 years ago now), and in the summer we would typically leave our company cars running because otherwise the work computer mounted inside would melt down (company position of course was that you can't leave your car idling, but if your computer doesn't work you are going to get written up for somehow not keeping it from overheating in the middle of August in Phoenix, and now not being able to work since all the work tickets and prints were on the computer). One day I turned around to see a dude jumping into my car. I was almost a block away, and thought *welp*... there goes the car, and probably my job. Car lurched forward, stalled. Lurched forward, stalled. Lurched forward, stalled... By this time I'm about half-way back to the car, guy bails out and runs. So yea, manual transmission prevented my company car from being stolen. I was actually driving that car because I was one of only a couple people in the crew of about 25 who could drive a manual, so nobody else wanted it. I went that afternoon and had another key made (company would not allow spares, so this was actually against the rules) so that I could lock it and still leave it running.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:48
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Sagebrush posted:I'd estimate that fewer than 1 in 10 cars in the USA have manual transmissions. While manual transmissions may be cheaper to manufacture, they're effectively a specialty item now, hence: Boaz MacPhereson posted:Can't believe I found a 2015 Mazda6 with a manual. Driving a manual in the US is like running Linux on your desktop computer.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:53
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I think brands that are known to appeal to testosterone soaked boys are better about keeping stick shifts in stock. Like when I was in the market for a new car a few years ago I was looking at diesel VW's (dodged a bullet there) and when I asked if they had any stick shifts available the response was "what color you want it in?" Subaru dealer was similar.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:58
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xzzy posted:I think brands that are known to appeal to testosterone soaked boys are better about keeping stick shifts in stock. Like when I was in the market for a new car a few years ago I was looking at diesel VW's (dodged a bullet there) and when I asked if they had any stick shifts available the response was "what color you want it in?" I bought a two door diesel VW with a stick.  Nobody wanted to buy it when I sold it.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:38
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If I couldn't get my car in a manual I wouldn't have it. It was the deciding factor in picking it over all the other cars I looked at.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:24
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This is amazing. Sorry for Facebook link https://www.facebook.com/KnucklesRap/videos/806087226167947/
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Feb 17, 2016 18:36
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^^ it's a great loving video.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:46
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ExcessBLarg! posted:Interest in manuals is low enough that there's no point for dealers to stock them, and in many models, for manufacturers to build them for the US market. This whole idea seems pretty foreign to me. A dealer here might not have an automatic in stock for you to test drive, but usually they can arrange for corporate to send them one for you to test drive. When buying a new car, no one here buys from dealership stock. You get to pick every option you want and the dealer will order exactly that car from the factory. Want a DS3 with yellow body, white roof and black exterior trim, and a cream coloured leather interior and a semi-automatic dual clutch transmission? They will order that for you. Why settle for colours and trim decided by someone else when you are the one spending 30k on a car? Then again when my twingo was new it was available in something like 21 exterior colours, 9 interior colours, 5 levels of trim, 3 different transmissions, 2 choices of petrol engine and a diesel. It kind of makes it impossible for a dealership to have the car I want with that many options.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:01
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Deedle posted:This whole idea seems pretty foreign to me. A dealer here might not have an automatic in stock for you to test drive, but usually they can arrange for corporate to send them one for you to test drive. no one in the US really cares. they want a car, they want it today and if they can check off 75% of their wants then they'll take it. dealers know this which is why they have lots the size of monaco filled to the brim with white, silver and black vehicles and occasionally a blue, red or yellow in something 'sporty'. they've all got the same option packages upselling you on poo poo you realistically don't need but they make big money on and if you actually want something different its either coming from another dealer who went for a different unicorn, or you order from the factory and wait two months. i ordered from the factory because gently caress not getting 100% what I want if I'm spending this much.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:55
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The only way I could afford to buy my 2015 WRX was by getting something no one else wanted. I managed to find one that was ordered but the financing fell through on it. It was a base model had been sitting on the lot for about two weeks in May of 2014, when the car was just hitting the dealerships and nearly impossible to find. Didn't have anything that I really wanted but I wouldn't have been able to buy a WRX any other way. There is used, but the used market for a 2014 at the time was hilarious. Dealers wanted something like $2000 off of the new price for stuff with 10,000-15,000 miles on it.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:04
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I got a screaming deal on a manual VW CC back last summer, it had been sitting on the dealer's lot since early spring and they wanted it gone. The showroom pictures on their site had leafless trees in the background, and they still had it in July. They had 2 other CCs in similar condition, but with automatic transmissions, that they were selling for thousands more. I came to find out later that it had some serious title issues left over from a repossession two years prior; the deal got even sweeter 5 months after the sale when I returned it for full purchase price.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:21
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Deedle posted:This whole idea seems pretty foreign to me. A dealer here might not have an automatic in stock for you to test drive, but usually they can arrange for corporate to send them one for you to test drive.
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Feb 18, 2016 15:51
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Oblivious Floridian idiot drives into tornado (finally at 2:28) with much cursing. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4ed_1455663173
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Feb 18, 2016 20:53
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ExcessBLarg! posted:Interest in manuals is low enough that there's no point for dealers to stock them, and in many models, for manufacturers to build them for the US market. On the other side of the pond the manual transmission is very much alive, but it appears the main motivation for this is has little to do with the driving experience and all boils down to cost. I think its fair to say that running a car in Europe is more expensive than the United States, and an automatic transmission adds a fairly significant additional cost to both the price of purchasing a car as well as the maintenance and repair costs. Plus an awful lot of people drive small hatchbacks around that are packing less than 100hp, and its my understanding that even modern autoboxes don't work so well with such small engines. My girlfriend and I have been looking around at cars, but unfortunately she has an automatic licence only and you would not believe the problems its caused. Firstly all the nice finance and PCP deals that dealers and lease companies do are basically all for manual transmissions. Sure you can get automatics, but they're never in the really good special offers and from what we found would easily add about £60 a month to the cost of a lease, which over a 4 year period adds up to quite a bit. Shes really set her heart on a BMW 1 series, but even with those we've found that at the same price point the manuals come with far better equipment than the automatics do. It would seem that due to the more expensive upkeep and repair costs, it has a knock on effect on insurance premiums as well. She is seriously considering upgrading her licence to a manual because it seems it would save a heck of a lot of money in the long run, even if the automatics have a much easier and less stressful driving experience (she does not enjoy driving). Manufacturers and journalists can rave about the demise of the manual, but around these parts its going nowhere for a long time.
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Feb 19, 2016 08:46
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Funfact: on Denmark's premiere used car sales site, for the longest time, you couldn't search for manual/auto/manumatic transmission types. Instead, they had "automatic" as a feature, next to the heated seats and sunroof.
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Feb 19, 2016 08:50
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Ludicro posted:Plus an awful lot of people drive small hatchbacks around that are packing less than 100hp, and its my understanding that even modern autoboxes don't work so well with such small engines. Modern dual-clutch gearboxes have closed the gap, and achieve slightly better fuel economy and acceleration than their manual counterparts, in most cases. Driving a low-powered car with a slushbox is aggravating in the extreme. A torque converter only works well if you have some actual torque to put into it  bolind posted:Funfact: on Denmark's premiere used car sales site, for the longest time, you couldn't search for manual/auto/manumatic transmission types. Instead, they had "automatic" as a feature, next to the heated seats and sunroof. And now they have separate check boxes for aircon and climate control, which is super annoying if you just want to search for cars with aircon as a minimum, since it's either/or.
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Feb 19, 2016 11:36
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