|
You should let Lavrov know he's negotiating under the delusion that he's threatening to invade Ukraine, he's going to be so embarrased!
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 04:03 |
|
|
lollontee posted:your paranoid delusions of russian invasion of ukraine do not argument good make I don't think you're posting in good faith, but what do you call the massive Russian military buildup on the Ukrainian border? Preemptive self-defense against imperialism?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
lollontee posted:um, so in case you wanna go and run with this thing, it was an interview of Hunter of the Vostok battalion, but i dont think i should say more than that now i mean, you were the one who decided to bring up Prizrak, and the topic of DNR/LNR battalions in general lol (i do recall there being quite a few "conspiracy" "theories" at the time - which i'm kinda inching towards believing, actually - about both russia and ukraine using the civil war as dumping grounds for their assorted psychos, with the hope that they all go ahead and kill each other. shame about all the civilian deaths resulting from that though) fake e: also lol at this: lollontee posted:the yeltsin occupation fwiw i do agree that russia is exceedingly unlikely to attack. i'm also not a fan of hyperbolising the extent to which russia is autocratic / authoritarian - however, it does seem to me like it's been on a decline since probably around 2011 or so in that regard
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
Generation Internet posted:I don't think you're posting in good faith, but what do you call the massive Russian military buildup on the Ukrainian border? sure, why not! you could call it a dozen things, but seeing any of them as hostile while we are talking about a sovereign nation moving soldiers inside its border, confronted with a global Empire most definately moving its soldiers outside its internationally recognized borders, you can sort of start to see a certain dichotomy of insanity in the emotional reaction to it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:34
|
|
|
 brave fighters against the forces of imperialism and fascism itt
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:35
|
|
|
nurmie posted:i NTV takeover was *2001*.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
Generation Internet posted:I don't think you're posting in good faith, but what do you call the massive Russian military buildup on the Ukrainian border? They also refuse to recognize that the NATO troops are both insufficient to mount offensive operations and that NATO and its members unambiguously emphasize such. But a mass of Russian forces with real offensive capability coupled with overt threats is no big deal because of tankie brainworms.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:
What is this from
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:38
|
|
|
Plastic_Gargoyle posted:What is this from Leszek Kołakowski's' "My Correct Views on Everything"
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:41
|
|
|
lollontee posted:sure, why not! you could call it a dozen things, but seeing any of them as hostile while we are talking about a sovereign nation moving soldiers inside its border, confronted with a global Empire most definately moving its soldiers outside its internationally recognized borders, you can sort of start to see a certain dichotomy of insanity in the emotional reaction to it? Except for that whole part where they basically already have had troops inside Ukraine for ages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas Unless you think these well equipped partisans just popped out of nowhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War Yeah, I'm sure they did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#Details_of_Russian_involvement_in_Donbas I especially love repeated Russian military incursions because "They got lost". Or how most of the partisans have openly state they trained in Russia, with Russian military units before being sent to Ukraine. quote:Cases of Russian soldiers killed and wounded in Ukraine are widely discussed in local Russian media in the republics from which they originated.[493] Recruitment for Donbas is performed rather openly via veteran and other paramilitary organisations. Vladimir Yefimov, leader of one of such organisations, explained in details in an interview how the process works in Ural area. The organisation recruits mostly army veterans, but also policemen, firefighters etc. with military experience. The cost of equipping one volunteer is estimated at around 350,000 rubles (around $6500) plus cost of the volunteer's salary from 60,000 to 240,000 rubles per month depending on their experience. The volunteers are issued a document claiming that their participation is limited to "offering humanitarian help" to avoid Russian mercenary laws. In Russia's anti-mercenary legislation a mercenary is defined as someone who "takes part [in fighting] with aims counter to the interests of the Russian Federation".[494] The recruited travel to the conflict zone without weapons, which are given at the destination. Often, Russian troops have travelled disguised as Red Cross personnel.[193][495][496][497] Igor Trunov, head of Russian Red Cross in Moscow condemned these convoys, saying they made delivery of real humanitarian aid more difficult.[498] Or even better: That the partisian taken areas are not even governed by the Partisians, but actual Russian delegations: quote:In March 2016, Germany's Bild reported that minutes from an October 2015 meeting of the "Interministerial Commission for the Provision of Humanitarian Aid for the Affected Areas of the Southeast of the Donetsk and Luhansk Regions" indicated that Russia was running militant-controlled parts of east Ukraine. According to Bild, "It is notable that no members of the self-declared people's republics in eastern Ukraine are on the commission" CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jan 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
Russia just can't control where the well armed russian army vacationers go to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
Xarn posted:Russia just can't control where the well armed russian army vacationers go to. English border guard: "Welcome to UK! Your name, please." Russian tourist: "Ivan Petrov." Guard: "Occupation?" Tourist: "No, just travelling."
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
Remember that one time not so long ago when Russia shot down a commercial passenger jet full of people flying over Ukraine?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
lollontee posted:sure, why not! you could call it a dozen things, but seeing any of them as hostile while we are talking about a sovereign nation moving soldiers inside its border, confronted with a global Empire most definately moving its soldiers outside its internationally recognized borders, you can sort of start to see a certain dichotomy of insanity in the emotional reaction to it? - Joseph Stalin, June 20 1941 At least this guy is ideologically consistent with his idol in being willfully dense.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:
When you're a hammer, the world looks like it's made of nails.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Except for that whole part where they basically already have had troops inside Ukraine for ages: those partisans popped out of these graves  https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2014/9/22/in-pictures-destruction-in-ukraines-luhansk/ ukrainian nazis started this war by driving over peaceful protestors with tanks, and thats why luhansk and donetsk are willing to accept help from anyone to avoid falling under the rule of murderers and nazis
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:52
|
|
|
lollontee posted:your paranoid delusions of russian invasion of ukraine do not argument good make So the massing of Russian troops on the border with Ukraine, and the deployment of 6 landing ships from the Black Sea fleet is for...?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:53
|
|
|
lollontee posted:those partisans popped out of these graves What part of "armed militants attempt to seize control of local governments" constitutes "peaceful protest?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:56
|
|
|
lollontee posted:those partisans popped out of these graves Pretty sure that the insurgency predates that grave and that article but nice job shifting the goal posts. Also: you do realize when you say "Not fall under the rule of Murderers and Nazis" you are talking about accepting help from a leader that has openly conducted campaigns of murder against dissidents and has a history of using chemical and neurological weapons against both his enemies, dissidents, and civilians? You are aware you are talking about Putin, right? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jan 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:57
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Pretty sure that the insurgency predates that grave and that article but nice job shifting the goal posts. what goal posts, you just posted a series of wikipedia links and something about.... what biden said during the early conflict? but yeah, when you got ethnic massacres going on, a separatist rebellion is kinda the inevitable result
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Pretty sure that the insurgency predates that grave and that article but nice job shifting the goal posts. stop loving editing your posts in response to my later posts. if you are currently being ethnically cleansed, i do indeed think it is morally ok to accept any and all help coming in, no matter the source
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:01
|
|
|
isn't lollontee the genocide denialist who pops up repeatedly in the china thread claiming that the uyghurs are saudi-financed agents or some poo poo?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:01
|
|
|
lollontee posted:what goal posts, you just posted a series of wikipedia links and something about.... what biden said during the early conflict? but yeah, when you got ethnic massacres going on, a separatist rebellion is kinda the inevitable result No at this point you are just making poo poo up, its pretty well recorded that none of that happened prior to Russian financing of rebels and insurgents. What you are claiming isn't even in the initial timeline, you are literally repeating Russian claims: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_war_in_Donbas_(2014) lollontee posted:stop loving editing your posts in response to my later posts. if you are currently being ethnically cleansed, i do indeed think it is morally ok to accept any and all help coming in, no matter the source They are not being ethnically cleansed though? Where are you even getting this claim? The only ones claiming there's some "Risk to Ethnics" is Russia, and its basically all fabricated to give them pretense to fund an insurgency. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jan 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:02
|
|
|
lollontee posted:what goal posts, you just posted a series of wikipedia links and something about.... what biden said during the early conflict? but yeah, when you got ethnic massacres going on, a separatist rebellion is kinda the inevitable result And your evidence for said ethnic massacres is?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:02
|
|
|
could you maybe moderate the thread before debating me commiegir. like maybe ban that guy under you accusing me of genocide denialism
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:03
|
|
|
lollontee posted:could you maybe moderate the thread before debating me commiegir. like maybe ban that guy under you accusing me of genocide denialism I'll let another mod deal with it: Answer the question. Where is the claim of Ethnic cleansing come from? On what basis? Mysteriously, the claims of Ethnic Cleansing didn't occur until AFTER Yunokovich fled and Russia was already caught on tape openly planning the annexation of Crimea. Russia has ENTIRELY claimed there was a risk to "Ethnic Russians" in Donbas, literally pulling a card from the Invasion of Poland to justify Russian support for an insurgency. Its also funny given that the SBU and Ukraine has openly caught Pro Russian Nazis trying to stir up violence in the past quote:Russian neo-Nazi Anton Rayevsky (a member of the Black Hundreds organization) who had attended the pro-Russian "anti-fascist" protest in Odessa of 23 March, was deported from Ukraine and banned from entering the country. He was accused of attempted sabotage and attempting provoking armed conflict. The SBU also found material calling for ethnic hatred and killing Ukrainians and Jews in the Odessa region. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jan 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:06
|
|
|
lollontee posted:could you maybe moderate the thread before debating me commiegir. like maybe ban that guy under you accusing me of genocide denialism  lollontee posted:i know, i have plenty of migrant friends whove spoken with uighurs fleeing chinese state repression, who tell me it was because of religious conflict lollontee posted:so why do you think the US keeps flip-flopping on treating ETIM as a terrorist organization or an NED recipient? surely it cant have been to use the ETIM to spread radical jihadist and nationalist sentiment in an effort to incite terrorism in places they want, like in Syria or China, depending on the foreign policy priorities of the american empire at any given moment lollontee posted:is your brain accidentally saying things you actually believe? western media fabricating genocides or denying them is something that happens constantly in front of your own eyes, dunno youre so angry at me for it
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:08
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:I'll let another mod deal with it: Answer the question. Where is the claim of Ethnic cleansing come from? On what basis? Mysteriously, the claims of Ethnic Cleansing didn't occur until AFTER Yunokovich fled and Russia was already caught on tape openly planning the annexation of Crimea. what kind of evidence would you like? news links from 2014?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:12
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:I'll let another mod deal with it: Answer the question. Where is the claim of Ethnic cleansing come from? On what basis? Mysteriously, the claims of Ethnic Cleansing didn't occur until AFTER Yunokovich fled and Russia was already caught on tape openly planning the annexation of Crimea. Huh. I didn't know the Black Hundreds had cropped up again. Wikipedia only has an entry for the Tsarist-era ones.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:13
|
|
|
BoldFace posted:Remember that one time not so long ago when Russia shot down a commercial passenger jet full of people flying over Ukraine? I'm sure the bad dreams about that will keep Putin from invading this time!
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:13
|
|
|
lollontee posted:what kind of evidence would you like? news links from 2014? Your article in NO WAY states there is ethnic cleansing, and is largely talking about the cease fire and deaths from the insurgency, so again, if the insurgency was about stopping some sort of ethnic cleaning, you think they'd mention that. So where is your claim of ethnic cleansing? The article is about Luhansk which is, effectively, a contested city in a warzone. That's not proof of the ethnic cleansing you claim it is. The bodies are largely rebels killed in sporadic fighting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:17
|
|
|
lollontee seems less a useful idiot than an explicit foot soldier for fascist propaganda
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:18
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Your article in NO WAY states there is ethnic cleansing, and is largely talking about the cease fire and deaths from the insurgency, so again, if the insurgency was about stopping some sort of ethnic cleaning, you think they'd mention that. that was just a random article that popped up, but if i understand correctly, you want me to write a timeline of the grievances that led the people of Donetsk and Luhansk to rise up in an actual peoples revolt. which is quite the request, if that is what you want?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
lollontee posted:that was just a random article that popped up, but if i understand correctly, you want me to write a timeline of the grievances that led the people of Donetsk and Luhansk to rise up in an actual peoples revolt. which is quite the request, if that is what you want? No I want you to, within the frame of the CURRENT Insurgency and Russian intervention, show me where this ethnic cleansing is? If your argument rests on Donbass needing Russian support to stop a genocide, then show me where that is and when was it occurring from 2014 till now? Where was the imminent threat? When did it start?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
lollontee posted:that was just a random article that popped up, but if i understand correctly, you want me to write a timeline of the grievances that led the people of Donetsk and Luhansk to rise up in an actual peoples revolt. which is quite the request, if that is what you want? What is the difference, in your opinion, between 'an actual peoples revolt' and a colour revolution?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
Can we get a loving moderator doing their job in here FOR ONCE? This is below the dignity of everybody involved, except for documented genocide denial expert lollontee steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jan 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
According to FT, Russia is open to further diplomacy on the topic of Ukraine, as a consequence to today’s meeting between Blinken and Lavrov. At the same time, Russia has clarified that it demand NATO troops entirely gone from east of Germany, it seems, since the FT article is saying the demand is for “NATO to remove all its forces from Bulgaria, Romania, and other ex-communist states”.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:24
|
|
|
lollontee posted:those partisans popped out of these graves I'm sorry your best buddy Nazis got hurt
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:25
|
|
|
lollontee posted:could you maybe moderate the thread before debating me commiegir. like maybe ban that guy under you accusing me of genocide denialism I agree, CommieGIR should moderate the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 04:03 |
|
|
steinrokkan posted:I'm sorry your best buddy Nazis got hurt Seems like if both sides of a conflict have actual Nazis fighting a war maybe we shouldn't take a side and let them sort it out, reminds me a bit of Syria huh
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2022 18:27
|
|
