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botany posted:"people on these forums" have also thought that the only person capable of saving us from the illuminati is usain bolt, i'm not sure that proves anything This is a thread about incorrect political opinions though 
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Mar 30, 2016 19:47
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botany posted:"people on these forums" have also thought that the only person capable of saving us from the illuminati is usain bolt, i'm not sure that proves anything "People on these forums" "People in this thread" are top tier posting tactics to derail a thread horribly because no one ever provides quotations or proof of more than a few weirdos doing whatever "people" are doing. Captain_Maclaine posted:Furr's not actually a historian at all! Not sure how an english lit medievalist ends up as a Stalin apologist but here we are.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:11
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Ratoslov posted:Grover Furr sounds like a nom-de-plume for someone writing Sesame Street erotic fanfiction. Perhaps this is why Grover's work is so shoddily constructed. He tried to build his own argument, but he just didn't have the expertise. Grover tried to construct a sound edifice, but it just ended up an unstable mess with substandard parts that didn't fit together, and it didn't even meet the codes and standards required by actual experts -- Grover's work will end up just collapsing around him because he didn't build it right.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:21
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Famethrowa posted:One thing I've never been able to wrap my head around with internet marxists--of all the people to wrap yourself in a loony logic pretzel about, why in the world would you pick Stalin??? After time ideologues of pretty much any ideology become unable to actually critically analyze data because that ideology becomes a part of their core identity. It doesn't matter how much evidence there is if you believe that any evidence contrary to what you think is propaganda. That any admission that you are wrong is equivalent to complete surrender to the evil others. This is exactly why some leftists thought the cambodian genocide was hogwash- the truth sounded way too close to something an evil republican might say so all of that evidence was completely ignored. Basically ideology taken to it's extreme tends to dichotomize everything into us v. them and you are either with us or you're against us. TROIKA CURES GREEK fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 22:48
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Sharkie posted:Perhaps this is why Grover's work is so shoddily constructed. He tried to build his own argument, but he just didn't have the expertise. Grover tried to construct a sound edifice, but it just ended up an unstable mess with substandard parts that didn't fit together, and it didn't even meet the codes and standards required by actual experts -- Grover's work will end up just collapsing around him because he didn't build it right. If this is alluding to what I think it's alluding to, then  .
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Mar 31, 2016 01:22
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Thanks for this thread. Grover Furr is one of the few honest historians in US academia. If Stalin was really a tyrant that brutally massacred tens of millions of his own people, for no other reason than pure comic book evil, he would not be by far the most celebrated and beloved historical figure in the former Soviet Union.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:04
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Holocaust420 posted:Thanks for this thread. Grover Furr is one of the few honest historians in US academia. 
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Mar 31, 2016 23:43
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Holocaust420 posted:If Stalin was really a tyrant that brutally massacred tens of millions of his own people, for no other reason than pure comic book evil, he would not be by far the most celebrated and beloved historical figure in the former Soviet Union. Thats surprising to me but I haven't personally been to eastern europe, is Stalin really the most beloved historical figure in former Soviet states?
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Mar 31, 2016 23:51
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Well, I'm from the former Soviet Union and that's definitely been my experience- the older generation that lived through Stalin's era revere him as a demi-god, primarily for winning WW2 and turning the country from a backwards, illiterate, predominantly rural country into the second most powerful industrial power in the world- complete with universal healthcare, literacy, and education. That's anecdotal though. Here are some facts: http://www.ibtimes.com/joseph-stalin-still-hero-some-russia-georgia-1112368 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7802485.stm http://carnegieendowment.org/2013/03/01/stalin-puzzle-deciphering-post-soviet-public-opinion As you can see, admiration for Stalin cuts across national borders- in fact, he is most popular not in Russia but in his native Georgia. It's self-evident that this would not be the case if Stalin actually killed 20, 30, or even 50 million of his own people. Bloodshit fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 00:00
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Thanks to everyone who linked some of Furr's other articles. I was tempted to pick up a cheap used copy of this text from Amazon, but those articles have completely killed all interest. From "hrm, an alternative historical perspective" to "lol what a goddamn crank" over the course of a single click.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:03
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Holocaust420 posted:It's self-evident that this would not be the case if Stalin actually killed 20, 30, or even 50 million of his own people. quote:that's anecdotal though "Some people like Hitler therefore he didn't kill 6 million" Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 00:14
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Holocaust420 posted:It's self-evident that this would not be the case if Stalin actually killed 20, 30, or even 50 million of his own people. not really, no
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Apr 1, 2016 00:15
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The tankies tell me that dismissing Grover Furr as a crazy crank is racist to the max
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Apr 1, 2016 00:20
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Famethrowa posted:
If most Jews thought Hitler was a great guy, it would be good reason to doubt that the Holocaust actually happened.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:33
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Holocaust420 posted:If most Jews thought Hitler was a great guy, it would be good reason to doubt that the Holocaust actually happened. Let's ask most Poles how they feel about Stalin
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Apr 1, 2016 00:37
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Holocaust420 posted:If most Jews thought Hitler was a great guy, it would be good reason to doubt that the Holocaust actually happened. not really, no
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Apr 1, 2016 01:03
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Let's ask most Poles how they feel about Stalin Baltic states have some fond memories too
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Apr 1, 2016 01:51
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swampman posted:According to Furr detractors, Furr is not a legitimate historian (he is a professor of medieval literature). That kinda explains everything I think?? Holocaust420 posted:
It is not self evident lmao what are you talking about.
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Apr 1, 2016 04:23
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Holocaust420 posted:If most Jews thought Hitler was a great guy, it would be good reason to doubt that the Holocaust actually happened. source your quotes
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Apr 1, 2016 04:28
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Noted expert “Holocaust420“ utterly destroys historians' facts with the power of anecdotes and a vague notion of “This can't be right, can it?“ In case you actually are not a troll: yes, hosed up people like Stalin exist, even at the top of powerful states, and yes, people tend to be stupid, forgetful and easily swayed  you should read a book sometime (please not anything by Furr, though), it helps
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Apr 1, 2016 04:38
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Dr. Furr, scholar specializing in medieval representations of butts and buttholes, gives a riveting lecture on Stalin and what the historian-academic industrial complex DOESN'T want you to know!
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Apr 1, 2016 04:43
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I'm convinced that Grover Furr's detractors in this thread are truly concerned with his tone and website formatting, and they wouldn't just bray at anything outside D&D's liberal orthodoxy.
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Apr 1, 2016 08:39
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Holocaust420 posted:Thanks for this thread. Grover Furr is one of the few honest historians in US academia. kim jong il did nothing wrong and mao was 70% good
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Apr 1, 2016 09:16
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You guys definitely know more about life in Stalin's Soviet Union than the people who actually lived in Stalin's Soviet Union. 
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Apr 1, 2016 10:12
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Flocons de Jambon posted:I'm convinced that Grover Furr's detractors in this thread are truly concerned with his tone and website formatting, and they wouldn't just bray at anything outside D&D's liberal orthodoxy. What do these words mean
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Apr 1, 2016 11:09
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I like the idea of Stalin being the "most celebrated historical figure in the former Soviet Union." Who does Poland love more than anyone else in history? Stalin of course.
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Apr 1, 2016 13:53
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Flocons de Jambon posted:I'm convinced that Grover Furr's detractors in this thread are truly concerned with his tone and website formatting, and they wouldn't just bray at anything outside D&D's liberal orthodoxy. No, I'm concerned with the fact that he magically manages to take Soviet propaganda pieces at face-value in regards to the show trials, but then calls into question NKVD files stoically breaking down exactly how many people died, as well as Stalin's lovely little notes in the archive about ethnically cleansing poles He is the worst kind of amateur historian. He creates a thesis AND THEN finds evidence to support it. Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 17:10
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sugar free jazz posted:I like the idea of Stalin being the "most celebrated historical figure in the former Soviet Union."
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Apr 1, 2016 18:58
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Famethrowa posted:No, I'm concerned with the fact that he magically manages to take Soviet propaganda pieces at face-value in regards to the show trials, but then calls into question NKVD files stoically breaking down exactly how many people died, as well as Stalin's lovely little notes in the archive about ethnically cleansing poles You cannot possibly read anything by Furr, without wincing at how many excuses he makes to show everything was hunky-dory. It's creepy.
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Apr 1, 2016 19:01
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After reading this thread, I feel like I should go read Searching for Bigfoot or something. It'll probably be far more amusing.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:32
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Hi All, Swampman is right about Stalin, and so is Furr. I feel sorry for you all living in the 1st world in a bubble of anti-stalin lies. The soviets effectivly and methodically eliminated famine in the USSR. The Famine of 32-33 was the last famine of natural origin that the russian people had to suffer through (excluding the 46-47 famine which was a direct result of, you know the titanic effort of almost single handedly defeating the Nazis). Pretty good job if you ask me. Why don't yall look into how many people starved to death in the USA during the great depression 1932-33 while the government was busy destroying food and slaughtering livestock because the poor starving people couldn't afford to buy it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 1, 2016 21:15
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G.C. Furr III posted:Hi All, Swampman is right about Stalin, and so is Furr. I feel sorry for you all living in the 1st world in a bubble of anti-stalin lies. 
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Apr 1, 2016 21:30
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G.C. Furr III posted:Hi All, Swampman is right about Stalin, and so is Furr. I feel sorry for you all living in the 1st world in a bubble of anti-stalin lies.
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Apr 1, 2016 21:34
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So you're saying that 1) The soviets didn't eliminate the incredebly frequent cycle of famines that existed under the tsars? 2) No one starved during the great depression? lol
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Apr 1, 2016 21:43
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I don't think there's evidence for famine killing millions in the Great Depression, no. From some text: By the way, later Soviet governments avoided mass starvation by buying much of their grain from the West. I guess that's one way communism can work for you. edit Why did I seriously respond to that Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 21:49
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Many Ukrainians died to bring us this joke.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:05
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I want to believe you're real but I couldn't stomach the crushing disappointment.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:07
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Holocaust420 posted:Well, I'm from the former Soviet Union and that's definitely been my experience- the older generation that lived through Stalin's era revere him as a demi-god, primarily for winning WW2 and turning the country from a backwards, illiterate, predominantly rural country into the second most powerful industrial power in the world- complete with universal healthcare, literacy, and education. Other brutal dictators, like Park Chung-hee, are remembered with similar fondness. As it turns out, "sure, under his rule we couldn't criticize the government without being beaten up by security forces or disappeared into a secret prison, but at least the economy was strong" is a very easy sentiment to hold decades later, particularly when the dictatorship was replaced by a corrupt oligarchy with crappy economic prospects. G.C. Furr III posted:Hi All, Swampman is right about Stalin, and so is Furr. I feel sorry for you all living in the 1st world in a bubble of anti-stalin lies. congrats on wasting ten bucks to create a dumb gimmick account to dedicate to a stupid gimmick
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Apr 1, 2016 22:16
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Main Paineframe posted:congrats on wasting ten bucks to create a dumb gimmick account to dedicate to a stupid gimmick its not a gimick, I have just been convinced by evidence counter to the infantile *hurr durr stalin was an evil man who loooooved killing people for fun* narative that most of what is written about the Stalin for a western audience living under capitalism is *oh wow* anti-communist and would seek to portray communism in the worst possible light, going as far as to just make poo poo up, like in Snyder's Bloodlands. Now theres a suprise
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Apr 1, 2016 22:27
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G.C. Furr III posted:its not a gimick, I have just been convinced by evidence counter to the infantile *hurr durr stalin was an evil man who loooooved killing people for fun* narative that most of what is written about the Stalin for a western audience living under capitalism is *oh wow* anti-communist and would seek to portray communism in the worst possible light, going as far as to just make poo poo up, like in Snyder's Bloodlands. Now theres a suprise What's your response to the things I have posted ITT?
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Apr 1, 2016 22:28
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