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I think it's pretty telling that there are only two loving idiots in this thread that are defending car salesmen (of which they likely are themselves), and pretty much the rest of the forum is telling them how terrible they are and how they should gently caress themselves sideways with a rusty hammer. Let me make this perfectly clear for you two chucklefucks. Car manufacturers make a product that people want to buy. They set the invoice price that they sell the car to the dealership for, which is lower than the MSRP, which is what dealers want customers to pay for the car. So that difference between invoice price and MSRP is the so called "wiggle room" that scummy rear end salesmen and dealerships use as their profit margin (and don't get me loving started on horseshit like "market adjustments" on halo cars). If you loving dicklickers didn't exist, then people could ostensibly buy cars from the manufacturer for around their invoice prices, thus giving consumers a better deal and the benefit of not being taken for a ride by a bunch of crooks that use every shady sales tactic that was literally invented by your industry. People manage to buy major appliances, houses, and other expensive poo poo every day without salesmen, yet you loving nonces continually try to justify your existence by saying you provide some kind of mystical "value" and "customer experience" that a well designed website would likely do better at.
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Aug 31, 2016 14:05
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fridge corn posted:Why? At what point is it in the dealer's best interest to help you find the best value, as opposed to finding the maximum you are willing to pay without considering it a bad value? This is what you're missing. It is at no point in the dealer's interest to get you the best deal possible when they make more money by getting you the worst deal you'll accept and think is good. This is the basic premise of negotiation as applied to sales.
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Aug 31, 2016 14:07
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fridge corn posted:Good god you're thick. You think dealers would even hire salespeople if they were unnecessary? Lol we've been talking the whole time about how dealerships are completely unnecessary. fridge corn posted:Why? Google.
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Aug 31, 2016 14:08
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Liquid Communism posted:At what point is it in the dealer's best interest to help you find the best value, as opposed to finding the maximum you are willing to pay without considering it a bad value? I'll go somewhere else and buy a different car??? This isn't hard please try to keep up leica posted:Google. How does Google answer my question?
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Aug 31, 2016 14:17
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fridge corn posted:Why? ANYONE but the dealer. The dealer is your enemy in this because he will pretend to help while making sure his own self interest is fulfilled instead. A Honda dealer will say a Honda is the best choice, but with more options than you need. But the Toyota dealer will say a Toyota is the best choice, but with more options than you need. What will the Ford dealer say? That you should get the Honda, but skip two of the options and go aftermarket instead? Of course not. That's what the above mentioned Internet will do, although they might call you an rear end in a top hat for not getting the same Ford they have. A dealer does provide valuable services. They stock and deliver the car, make sure it's fit for delivery and handle the paperwork with the government (Ignoring maintenance, warranty etc since they are often a separate business). That's useful for the buyer. Yet, dealers are so hated, their powerful owners had to run to the government and get competition protection by the law. Why? Because they behaved so badly people started hating them and wanted to buy cars in other ways.
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Aug 31, 2016 14:27
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Actually, the Honda, Toyota and Ford stores are all owned by the same elderly white man who spends most of his time golfing in Palm Springs. They will collude to preserve their margins. They are not particularly interested in getting you the best possible deal, strategically, because they all work for the same guy.
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Aug 31, 2016 14:56
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fridge corn posted:I'll go somewhere else and buy a different car??? This isn't hard please try to keep up How is this better than the manufacturer cutting out the dealer's margin and offering you a firm fixed price? Is your time valueless to you?
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Aug 31, 2016 14:57
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 15:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:How is this better than the manufacturer cutting out the dealer's margin and offering you a firm fixed price? Is your time valueless to you? Im not going to buy a car without looking at it, sitting in it, or driving it, am I?
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Aug 31, 2016 15:08
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fridge corn posted:Im not going to buy a car without looking at it, sitting in it, or driving it, am I? Why does this make the franchise dealer model necessary? edit: Sure, yes, today, these three services are provided by the dealer. Why is it necessary that the facility that serves this purpose be a franchised car dealer?
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Aug 31, 2016 15:52
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 15:56
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why does this make the franchise dealer model necessary? Lol and what do you propose instead?
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Aug 31, 2016 15:57
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Huge_Midget posted:I think it's pretty telling that there are only two loving idiots in this thread that are defending car salesmen (of which they likely are themselves), and pretty much the rest of the forum is telling them how terrible they are and how they should gently caress themselves sideways with a rusty hammer. nice meltdown Seriously though vroom and it's like are even more "scummy" then every other used car dealer. True story, I've been looking for a car and found one online at Beepi (a vroom alike). I almost went through with it until I realized it was Sunday, and car sales from licensed dealers are against the law in Texas. I'm not saying it's a good/just law, but it is the law, and what else are they going to bend he rules on that I won't know about?
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Aug 31, 2016 16:04
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Fuelslt1 posted:So...you want to be able to see, touch, drive & ask questions about the vehicle all in a central location? You really do not need a 60 day supply of inventory at a showroom location that exists for order taking. You can slim down a dealer footprint quite a bit if you get rid of the inventory. See Tesla's stores. The only reason that the dealer model is at all compelling is a) to reduce capital costs for the OEM b) to provide a post manufacturing buffer and c) if for some reason you are one of those retarded children who MUST DRIVE CAR OFF LOT TODAY!!
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Aug 31, 2016 16:09
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:09
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You really do not need a 60 day supply of inventory at a showroom location that exists for order taking. You can slim down a dealer footprint quite a bit if you get rid of the inventory. See Tesla's stores. And for the used market, benefits the consumer for d) not having to deal with shady backalley craigslist sellers. Or at least gives them legal entity to come back and sue when they gently caress up the paperwork and sell a car with a sheriff's lien on it from another state.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:13
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:13
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The real problem with the dealership model is that it breeds a "sales process" (it's not sales, it's basically in person telemarketing) where in many places it is allowed, if not outright encouraged, to make the actual pricing as obfuscated and confusing for the customer as possible. Bait and switch in any number of forms still exists. You can always say "just go to another dealer", but until you actually get into the dealer you don't know if the one you've decided to spend hours at is a dealer that is actively trying to gently caress you or not. I work with commissioned salespeople daily in a different industry, and if any of them pulled the childish bullshit that most dealers love, they'd lose business left and right. Probably be shitcanned for it too.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:16
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:17
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I agree, almost everyone will not want to buy a car before test driving it first. You need to have at least a few vehicles available for test drives. However, people really don't care about test driving their specific vehicle. I don't think anyone is (seriously) suggesting to completely do away with the ability to test drive cars, the question is why that role must be played by some rear end in a top hat middleman living out the American rentier economy fantasy who provides his staff with an archaic set of incentives that are entirely at odds with the customer's wants and the manufacturer's brand image.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:18
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:21
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:23
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Fuelslt1 posted:You still need an entire workforce behind that smaller inventory. Sure...you can order a car off of your ipad but you aren't going to do it without driving the car and doing research/asking questions before buying the 2nd largest item in your life (housing being the 1st). you don't deserve to be financially compensated for answering questions and facilitating the sale of the car.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:24
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Fuelslt1 posted:Let's take the salesman out of the equation. Yeah, actually I do strongly prefer this. I can and do use the internet to do research.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:24
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:26
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It's fascinating to me as well because in... say 15 years or so, new car dealerships are certainly not going to be occupying their current space.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:27
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:28
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:29
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Fuelslt1 posted:Perfect, now you've got a high school aged Wal-Mart cashier ringing you up with "No HAGGLE pricing!". I hope you like the price the dealership is advertising because that is what you are going to pay. They are making their profit either way. There's a reason that in the beginning Saturn was extremely successful. It's because people didn't have to put up with the typical dealership experience. (then GM killed it off by letting the product wither on the vine and having horrible quality issues, thanks GM) I understand your perspective but really, how can you not see that the end customer hates your business model for very good reasons?
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Aug 31, 2016 16:30
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Fuelslt1 posted:Why do you say that? Because in 15 years the North American new vehicle market is going to shrink by like 30% and a lot of the sales are going to be direct fleet sales. There's still room for used cars, but when people are purchasing a service rather than a tool, the world will look very different.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:32
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Fuelslt1 posted:Perfect, now you've got a high school aged Wal-Mart cashier ringing you up with "No HAGGLE pricing!". I hope you like the price the dealership is advertising because that is what you are going to pay. They are making their profit either way. Lol que hundreds of butthurt Internet tough guys complaining about the good old days when you used be able to haggle a good deal but now my car comes from a vending machine rip
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Aug 31, 2016 16:32
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:33
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Aspects of the model are a necessity but the amount of bullshit is certainly not. Saturn ruled. If your guys are ex-Saturn, you probably do work at a good store.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:48
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Fuelslt1 posted:Let's take the salesman out of the equation. That's pretty much exactly the way it should be, as long as I don't have to deal with sales people I'm good. There's this thing called the internet if I have questions about any car I'm interested in. There's these other things called smart phones I could use to ask any questions right on the spot before I pay the cashier! You don't need to wish me luck, because unlike dealing with sales people, there's no luck involved with that process! fridge corn posted:Lol que hundreds of butthurt Internet tough guys complaining about the good old days when you used be able to haggle a good deal but now my car comes from a vending machine rip Those guys will all be dead soon.
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Aug 31, 2016 16:48
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Fuelslt1 posted:Funny you bring that up. 90% of my co-workers, including the management, came from a Saturn dealership together. but i can go to a ford dealership for that experience and the 4 square bullshit and made to wait 45 minutes in the lobby while someone looks up the kbb value of my trade in and "run the numbers" and then get weekly phone calls for 3 months from the dumbfuck salesman who doesn't understand that i wont buy a car from an idiot
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Aug 31, 2016 16:48
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:52
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Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 16:56
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I think number 8 is of particular importance for ppl itt
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Aug 31, 2016 17:06
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Fuelslt1 posted:You are going to the wrong dealerships if you are experiencing any of those instances. I get it. Maybe you work at a dealership that isn't outrageously scummy. Maybe there are actually reasonable salespeople on staff there. MAYBE. But that just puts the dealership you work at in the 0.001% of dealerships that don't try to screw over people as hard as inhumanly possible. All of these scummy salesman stereotypes happened for a reason. And looking at your nicely itemized list, which part necessitates the involvement of a salesperson? That's right, none of them. Abolish the whole dealership model, set up manufacturer show rooms where people can go look at cars and do test drives. Sell cars at list price without bullshit options packaging*. Done. No more bullshit. * What do you mean I can only get aircon if I get the moonroof and embroidered floor mats? gently caress that. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 17:12
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1. Do your own research online for the vehicle you want. DONE 2. Find the vehicle you want online. DONE 3. Compare pricing for similar vehicles between cars.com/autotrader/dealer websites. DONE 4. Research the rebates available to you from the manufacturer. DONE 5. Research the dealership. DONE 6. SECURE YOUR OWN FINANCING (And you thought the salesman was screwing you...) I HAVE CASH 7. Go to the dealership, ask to test drive the vehicle you've narrowed your search down to. DON'T NEED A TEST DRIVE, KNOW EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT EACH VEHICLE 8. Act like a normal human being. DONE 9. Review an itemized list of all the charges associated with your purchase. DEALER HAS NO CLUE OR IS PURPOSEFULLY PLAYING STUPID ABOUT REBATES, 0% INTEREST AND OTHER INCENTIVES 10. Go to the finance office to finalize the paperwork. No, you don't need the undercoating. CAN'T EVEN GET THIS FAR 11. Purchase the vehicle with your own financing. CAN'T EVEN GET THIS FAR 12. Say "It was a pleasure doing business with you, I'll be sure to tell my friends & family about my experience here." gently caress YOU Way earlier I clearly pointed out the reasons why even the nicest dealer is a steaming pile of poo poo. MSRP means NOTHING. For the informed consumer (which is growing by the day) this is INFURIATING because the dealers are clearly trying to screw you. Give me the best price clearly stated OUT THE loving DOOR and I don't want to know WHAT THE loving MONTHLY PAYMENT IS YOU RETARDED gently caress and if it is acceptable to me then I will buy it if not then thank you for your time. IT IS LIKE PULLING loving TEETH. I have emailed so many DEALERS on Cars.com who advertise a price for a new vehicle and ask what is the OUT THE DOOR PRICE and NO ONE EVER loving RESPONDS or I just get boilerplate back. gently caress YOU BITCH. everdave fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 17:15
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