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Heh, it might be jerkish but I very deliberately decided Volfred wasn't going to be liberated. The last thing the Revolution needs is a heroic leader figure. And I think honestly Volfred recognises that too.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:49
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Fangz posted:Heh, it might be jerkish but I very deliberately decided Volfred wasn't going to be liberated. The last thing the Revolution needs is a heroic leader figure. And I think honestly Volfred recognises that too. He definitely deserves to be liberated, yeah; but he also isn't the type of guy who'd be okay with screwing over one of the people who had dedicated themselves to his plan for the sake of freeing himself. Honestly, I feel like he'd prefer that Orelach got freed before he did. It also helps that he's probably the Nightwing that contributes the most to improving life in the Downside if he's left behind, especially if Bertrude's around for him to team up with.
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Jul 31, 2017 03:09
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I was originally planning to have Volfred the last person to be anointed but in the end when Volfred said I could be the one to be free I took that chance instead of giving it to Orelach on the belief that they could regain their friendship in the end (epilogue showed me I was horribly mistaken). I was also afraid that Volfred would just be arrested if he was returned back to the Commonwealth and he had enough connections he would be fine staying in the depths I gotta admit while the voice acting/mumbling in this game is spectacular I was a little disappointed we only got the one moment where Volfred speaks complete English to you. I really wish every time that character talked to you telekinetically he kept speaking in complete English as all readers can apparently do such as Brighton/Voice. It was a shocking scene for me when it first happened and really makes you apprehensive about dealing with that character.
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Jul 31, 2017 03:23
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I'm not the only one who mentally replaces the Voice when they start showing themselves again as Monty Python God, am I?
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Jul 31, 2017 03:34
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I didn't liberate Volfred because I saw him as the "the ideal is more important than myself" type of revolutionary. And even though they cannot be I still didn't wanna separate him and Bertrude so *ae was the one to go last instead. Also the twist and immediate untwist when Oralech goes "oh poo poo guys we can all go home now" only to get shot down immediately is very rude 
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Jul 31, 2017 07:13
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Desperate Character posted:I was originally planning to have Volfred the last person to be anointed but in the end when Volfred said I could be the one to be free I took that chance instead of giving it to Orelach on the belief that they could regain their friendship in the end (epilogue showed me I was horribly mistaken). They did in my ending! I lost the final fight, and Oralech reconsidered, set me free, and he and Volfred met up years later and became friends again. Somebody fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 07:18
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Finished this yesterday! Supergiant games remains very good, and the soundtrack is excellent. Spoilery thoughts: The game definitely lacked the same final punch as Transistor or even Bastion. Possibly because the "stars dying out" didn't really have a tangible effect on the Rites other then the more frequent liberation rites and the minor effect in the final liberation rite of falling star "bombs". Possibly it'd have been nice to have the repetitive rites broken up by more "defend the pyre" style instances like you get the one time with the howlers. Possibly even replace the howlers with lesser/servants of the Titans, since the Titan stars coming back is meant to be bad mojo I think part of the issue is that the game lacks an active antagonist for the majority of its playtime. The Commonwealth exists but does basically nothing active, even when its clear that they know about the Plan/the subversion of the Nightwings. Oralech sort of counts but you only see him 3 or 4 times between his relatively late introduction and the end of the game. Getting to take Sandra with me at the end was great  We went sailing around the non Downside world together! I felt bad for Dalbert and Almer. They seemed the most deserving to go home, but even if I had been willing to subvert the Plan, only one of the two could go home  My send back order was Lost to the Tempters --> Jodariel --> Rukey --> Pamitha --> Rae --> Hedwyn --> Ti'zo (replaced by the Reader at the end). Bertrude seemed like she was more in it for the Plan itself then for going back home, Volfred had to stay to ensure our mutual destruction if he double crossed me and Gilman was okay but way too weird for me to use in Rites except when forced to by Banishment Sickness.
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Jul 31, 2017 11:12
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Sudden twist stories are kinda passé in my opinion. I found the characters and the story structure you can affect more than enough to drive the story without an active antagonist. You can't really know what Archjustice might be up to in the Commonwealth anyway, taunting you is simply all he can do to impede you. If anything the pressure to the story is simply that the Rites are a flawed system doomed to fail to begin with and it's likely Oralech's presence as anointed but denied that starts breaking the cycle down instead of anything actively malicious he's up to. Also shame on you for not liberating Gilman and missing him being super adorable about it.
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Jul 31, 2017 11:32
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Nina posted:Sudden twist stories are kinda passé in my opinion. I found the characters and the story structure you can affect more than enough to drive the story without an active antagonist. You can't really know what Archjustice might be up to in the Commonwealth anyway, taunting you is simply all he can do to impede you. If anything the pressure to the story is simply that the Rites are a flawed system doomed to fail to begin with and it's likely Oralech's presence as anointed but denied that starts breaking the cycle down instead of anything actively malicious he's up to. I don't really think Transistor or Bastion were "sudden twist" stories though. In Bastion you have the Ura, in Transistor you have the Camerata/Process. In Pyre you have... ostensibly the other teams, but none of them really actively antagonise, more just hold a grudge when it comes time to tussle. It feels weird that the supposedly corrupted and somewhat insane Commonwealth wouldn't try to use some dirty dealings to get back at you. Not messing with the Rites themselves, but sending assassin's after you like the Empire sent after Soliam Murr or something else would seem apropos for them. I don't buy that Oralech's presence alone is destroying the Rites. He's been around for years since his betrayal at the Liberation Rite, and poo poo only starts going downhill after the first Liberation Rite/shortly before his introduction. Considering his active heresy in damning the Scribes, I think it more likely that once he found out about the Nightwings returning/Volfred's involvement, he set about some active method of destabilizing the Rites. Possibly just by having the "True Nightwings" around. quote:Also shame on you for not liberating Gilman and missing him being super adorable about it. Listen, Gilman is adorable but I doubt wyrms carry much political weight in the Commonwealth and he'd probably be too busy trying to get all the wyrms to stop fighting to actually be of use 
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Jul 31, 2017 11:55
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I don't mind having villains in your story but I applaud any narrative that can work without having any. You're still struggling against adversity and that alone is enough to bring tension into the story in my eyes. The Commonwealth isn't really an insane evil society either. They're a flawed, absurdly stuck to tradition theocracy and while they definitely deserve to be overthrown they're not a nation of cartoon villains.
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Jul 31, 2017 12:06
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Nina posted:The Commonwealth isn't really an insane evil society either. They're a flawed, absurdly stuck to tradition theocracy and while they definitely deserve to be overthrown they're not a nation of cartoon villains. I mean, I agree they're not cartoon villains, but they're also stuck in a weird schizophrenia where literacy is illegal and the predominant religion is Astralism (not Scribe...ism?) but the inner circle of government is ruled by people who were Rite-participants/Readers and who worship the Scribes, to the point where every returnee from the Downside returns in "glory" for having taken part in the Scribe's Rites. Thats going to cause some mental dissonance however you look at it. I'm sad there wasn't any bonus snippet of text/prologue for having studied the Book from cover to cover via Vocations, since it seems as much magical artefact as book. e: On a side note, is the mumbling/not-English dialogue some form of Latin? Most recognizably, the thing your players say after winning sounds like "Nox alas", Latin for "Night wings" Arianya fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 12:16
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Conot posted:I mean, I agree they're not cartoon villains, but they're also stuck in a weird schizophrenia where literacy is illegal and the predominant religion is Astralism (not Scribe...ism?) but the inner circle of government is ruled by people who were Rite-participants/Readers and who worship the Scribes, to the point where every returnee from the Downside returns in "glory" for having taken part in the Scribe's Rites. Thats going to cause some mental dissonance however you look at it. The idea really seems to be that they adhere to the Book 100% and apply things in it to their society in a way that isn't compatible at all. Like "Don't try to replicate this book and spread oral tradition instead" becomes "okay books are illegal now that's what the Scribes meant" and their interpretation of the Scribes' teachings on mercy becomes mixed with their teachings on continuing tradition crystallizing in the idea that their society is merciful because they condemn their criminals into the Rites rather than conventional punishment which means innocent petty offenders are gonna get in the Downside and have the same chance as war criminals and potential terrorists. It's a hosed up society but they don't do things out of "evil" and I feel it's telling the upper echelons that rule this society stand down rather than oppose the revolution with arms. They're assholes but they're not the Sahrian Empire and I feel sending killers after you would be out of character for them because they're just so deeply rooted in their skewed tradition.
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Jul 31, 2017 12:30
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Conot posted:I mean, I agree they're not cartoon villains, but they're also stuck in a weird schizophrenia where literacy is illegal and the predominant religion is Astralism (not Scribe...ism?) but the inner circle of government is ruled by people who were Rite-participants/Readers and who worship the Scribes, to the point where every returnee from the Downside returns in "glory" for having taken part in the Scribe's Rites. Thats going to cause some mental dissonance however you look at it. Reader appears to be something like "literatus". Also, there is a short conversation that happens if you get all those little stat buffs from studying the book in vocation-time.
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Jul 31, 2017 12:34
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Krazyface posted:
I must have missed it, mind giving a synopsis?
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Jul 31, 2017 12:39
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On another note Knights of the Sea is too drat good of a theme
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Jul 31, 2017 12:57
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As is Dread Design.
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Jul 31, 2017 13:19
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Grand Ceremony as a tune is way better then it has any right to be considering whose theme it is.
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Jul 31, 2017 13:24
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The music does a fabulous job of setting up the mood I gotta say. Like half of the adversaries' character comes from having a rad, distinct theme.
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Jul 31, 2017 13:30
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Finally finished this last night. Order of liberation went Jodariel > Rukie > Gilman > Hedwyn > Dalbert (lost the rite) > Zhae > Volfred. Plan was at 85% before sending Volfred, not sure what it ended up at after sending him at the end but it succeeded anyway. Figured it was his plan, it would have a better chance of success if he was there in the Commonwealth to meet up with all his agents and guide them directly. Worked out well, since they made him the Prime Minister of the new society. Someone was saying they regretted not letting Dalbert win during the liberation rite. I lost it on accident, and the result is that when it comes time to enter the stream he throws his son in instead. The messages I got afterwards indicated that he died shortly afterwards having achieved what he set out to do, but then his son didn't really fit in with the Commonwealth and became a miserable recluse of sorts. Wasn't until Volfred's plan succeeded that he found some inspiration in life as a historian, so I guess it actually went well for him in the end. Amazing game overall, not sure if it's Supergiant's best but they're all incredible and have their own charms. I think my favorite is still Transistor based on gameplay and soundtrack, but Pyre might be better realized as a complete package. One thing I was wondering was if it's scripted that the other team doesn't show up for the match before the final liberation rite. I was set to face the Chastity again, and had made a point to go against them every chance I had up until that point just to stick it to that snooty bastard. At that point they were 0-4 against me and I wasn't sure if they didn't show up because they knew the rites were coming to an end or if they were just demoralized from losing to me over and over.
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Jul 31, 2017 18:10
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:
might be a mechanic if you beat a team too many times because there are definitely circumstances for teams pulling out (like if they win a liberation rite) I fought accusers second to last and they showed up. They commented on how this was their last chance and all that. Did you actually get to do the rite or did another team show up instead?
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Jul 31, 2017 18:23
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JuniperCake posted:might be a mechanic if you beat a team too many times because there are definitely circumstances for teams pulling out (like if they win a liberation rite) I fought accusers second to last and they showed up. They commented on how this was their last chance and all that. Did you actually get to do the rite or did another team show up instead? You conduct the rite on an empty field. There's a hole in the ground where the other team's symbol would be, and you walk the ball over to the hole unopposed and win instantly.
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Jul 31, 2017 18:25
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I got around to starting the game and I'm having fun and like the concept... but drat, it's amazing how much games have changed over time that having text-only dialogue is a massive letdown. The art is good and the characters charming enough but the narrative cannot compare to Transistor or Bastion with the way it's delivered. Looking forward to exploring the combat system more. I just upgraded my caravan and I'm basically using Jodariel/Dae/Rukie every time and using the last 2 to run/jump past the enemy team. If I miss the goal for whatever reason, I just tank them with Jodariel until the other guys respawn.
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Jul 31, 2017 20:34
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I disagree completely. Reading good writing is actually an insanely good way to experience a story
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Jul 31, 2017 20:54
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minya posted:I disagree completely. Reading good writing is actually an insanely good way to experience a story consider this, though really good writing............with really good voice acting
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Jul 31, 2017 20:58
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This is a tiny team with limited budget that pulled off a large cast of fleshed out main characters. I don't miss voice acting for everyone one bit. And, you know, the whole point of the plot kinda is that reading is cool and you should also revolutionize the world
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Jul 31, 2017 21:21
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Reading what is like 90% dialogue is inferior to actually hearing the dialogue, most of the time. And reading passively when you could actually be playing the game and listening at the same time is even more of a bummer, when Bastion and Transistor showed us how great the alternative is. I wouldn't pick up Pyre as a novel, so making me experience it as such is triggering a "ok ok let's get to the next rite" feeling that I never had listening to the transistor talk to me while walking down a hallway to the next encounter.
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Jul 31, 2017 21:22
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ultrachrist posted:Reading what is like 90% dialogue is inferior to actually hearing the dialogue, most of the time. And reading passively when you could actually be playing the game and listening at the same time is even more of a bummer, when Bastion and Transistor showed us how great the alternative is. i would pick up pyre as a novel but i get where you're coming from but idk, as much as I love having dialogue playing while you play the game it also kinda stresses me out? like, if voice lines are playing I usually just stand still because I don't wanna advance too far ahead and accidentally cut it off with another voice line
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Jul 31, 2017 21:30
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It's actually great that of all characters Ti'zo actually has voice acting that perfectly matches the text. Also a neat Steam post from a dev kid_zomb posted:Here's a big old essay on this both for your interest and my own future reference, since I've never documented this and might as well do so while it's fresh on my mind. Nina fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 21:36
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Nina posted:The music does a fabulous job of setting up the mood I gotta say. Like half of the adversaries' character comes from having a rad, distinct theme. Considering the developer, it would be weird if the game's soundtrack was anything less than fantastic.
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Jul 31, 2017 22:17
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Falcon Ron is the best. If only you could liberate him- not that he'd take it, but so he could sell it back to you at an extra-special low price, know what I mean?
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Aug 1, 2017 01:55
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Mazerunner posted:Falcon Ron is the best. Players who clicked on Ron to make him quiet down are messed up.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:58
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Man, this was a really disappointing game for me. I've been a big fan of Supergiant's stuff in the past, but the fantasy sportball just does not feel good, especially on mouse + keyboard. I sunk about four hours into it and found myself dreading every rite, just wishing I could get back to the writing.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:28
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Does the Yslach titan star have the same effect as bumping up the difficulty level by one, or is it different? Hard to tell. I feel it's kind of a shame that the "All enemies banished = All enemies respawn" Titan star shows up so late, because it happens rarely enough and it's worth 10%, so it's pretty much free XP.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:55
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well the problem with one-to-one voice acting is that it makes writing the game a lot less flexible -- if you want to get the game out in a reasonable timeframe you need to record voice lines while the game is still in development, but that also means that if you decide to rewrite a line you also need to call that voice actor back into a studio and re-record it. This also means that significant plot restructuring becomes a lot less appealing (for obvious reasons). I was listening to a games writing podcast with the writer of Kentucky Route Zero (another narrative-heavy game without voice-acting) and I remember him saying writing without voice-acting gave him a lot more freedom and flexibility. Something along those lines, at least. Like I haven't played transistor, but I played through bastion a couple months ago and I remember the plot being fairly linear, with the only real branching happening with deciding to save Zulf and deciding to move on. It becomes very obvious very fast that this is not the case with Pyre -- while the main story generally follows the same throughline, there's a lot more divergence than in Bastion, and infinitely more so when it comes to the characters themselves. Bastion just doesn't have as many moving parts as Pyre does (story-wise) and most people will see the same content, so voice acting for Bastion makes a lot more sense in a bang-for-your-buck way than it does for Pyre. Anyways reading is cool, I like reading
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Aug 1, 2017 06:05
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bewilderment posted:I feel it's kind of a shame that the "All enemies banished = All enemies respawn" Titan star shows up so late, because it happens rarely enough and it's worth 10%, so it's pretty much free XP. I had originally thought the titan stars showed up in the order you chose the battlefields once you can do that, but I guess it was just coincidence
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Aug 1, 2017 06:26
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I can understand that people are sad about the voice acting because they used it really well with the narrator in the first two games. Rucks was great and the little dialog you get with Red typing to Blue at the consoles and his commentary in general was also really nicely done. But as pointed out, both of those games play out pretty much the same way each time with very few actual choices while pyre gives you some major ones. I think it would have just been too much work but I understand still people missing that aspect because Supergiant games as a studio utilizes voice acting very well. I think one area they might have done better at: was with the Voice, it would have been interesting to more thoroughly explore the idea of an antagonistic narrator (well game commentator). I never really got the impression that he was trying to manipulate me or groom me to be his successor like Volfred warned me about. I think there is an opportunity to build on his relationship with the reader some so that his eventual turn away from you actually means something. Maybe by having more voice overs with him inbetween games early on instead of just the scenes where he randomly harasses you after he decides he hates you. Make him actually try to convert you, or pressure you or mislead you in some way before you learn not to trust him.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:14
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Hipster Occultist posted:Man, this was a really disappointing game for me. I've been a big fan of Supergiant's stuff in the past, but the fantasy sportball just does not feel good, especially on mouse + keyboard. I sunk about four hours into it and found myself dreading every rite, just wishing I could get back to the writing. Aw really? I feel like the gameplay flows much better than Transistor, that didn't click for me until near the end of the game. If anything I get antsy with all the stuff inbetween each Rite, they're over so quickly as it is. I do think the Rites need a little more room to breathe. Matches feel way too fast, even if it's a close game. I know(or hope) that I'm going to get to a point where tactics are more complicated than 'give ball to someone fast, dunk, repeat,' but I feel like I'm punished whenever I try for a more elegant or inventive setup. That's another thing, I wish there were bigger fields. Each round is so quick, I wish there was more incentive to maneuver your team so that passing played a bigger part and banishments were more punishing. Maybe that's not the exact right solution, but I'd like each goal to feel like an accomplishment. Bloodbowl is not a great example of game design, but I grew attached to my teams there in part because it was so drat hard to get a point. It felt like a serious accomplishment, whereas more Rites feel like they're decided before they've really begun.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:29
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Pyre has the least exploitable systems out of all Supergiant games and demands more input from the player which makes it my favourite. Well save for some really good mastery combinations that steamroll over most opponents but none of them are even close to the most ridiculous function combos you could do in Transistor.
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Aug 1, 2017 20:37
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This is easily Supergiant's best game and maybe the best I've played in a long time. Played up to the second Liberation last night. I nominated Jodariel first time (because playing defense is lame) and Sir Gillam the second time (because I'd done his fight with the Pyrehearts and as funny as he is I wanted more time with the others, also his Aura Dash is really hard to use well).
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Aug 1, 2017 22:55
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Does anyone know what triggers being called to the Beyonder? Is it xp gain or points scored? Because I'll be damned if I can actually score any points with Volfred. He's the last one I need and I want to hear the end of Sandra's story!
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Aug 2, 2017 02:51
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