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Fiedler posted:C# and F# language binding and extensions to Apache Spark i spent some time yesterday looking at this poo poo and it's rad as hell microsoft is making a concerted effort to bridge c# into the broader open source ecosystem so people like me stop pointing out how loving awful C#-land is here in about five years maybe it will be relevant
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Oct 16, 2017 16:12
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Ploft-shell crab posted:what’s wrong with spring & what is the recommended alternative on the jvm? its overcomplicated and not necessary. the recommendation is to not replace it
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Oct 16, 2017 16:13
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0x1991BABE posted:my problem with java is mostly with enterprise try-hards. i have never seen a more pathological fear of coupling and desire to overengineer even the simplest things than with bad java devs. i think your coworker might be an rear end in a top hat
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Oct 16, 2017 16:14
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i don't think you know what spark is, dawg i may have been looking at something else, but the spark equivalent is service fabric which is language agnostic and can be deployed locally, in azure, or in a hybrid mode for scaling.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:16
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Shaggar posted:i may have been looking at something else, but the spark equivalent is service fabric which is language agnostic and can be deployed locally, in azure, or in a hybrid mode for scaling. lol i have never even heard of this laughable bullshit it's the new windows for high performance computing or whatever nonsense they're selling this week
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:lol i have never even heard of this laughable bullshit welcome to the world of microsoft's cloud platform.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:22
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:lol i have never even heard of this laughable bullshit its not, but whatever you want to believe to clutch your decades old ideas. service fabric rules.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:25
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so this is kind of an object lesson in the difference between a vendor who works very hard to make developers lives good, and an ecosystem spark isn't just good because i can build cool applications with spark, or because it has a nice interactive mode to do ad-hoc operations live. it's good because other people use it, and build things you can use with it, and build things on top of it, and send patches upstream. microsoft's "service fabric" could be the greatest thing since slice bread and it would still be a dogshit ecosystem to live in because microsoft can't replace a gigantic fuckin army of programmers at non-software companies cooperating in the open in c#-land, either you get your library from microsoft, or you are left scratching in the dirt, because there's no ecosystem.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:26
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c# is a good language and the CLR is a good runtime and i am glad that microsoft is pursuing a new open source strategy but the open source ecosystem ain't there yet, and i sure don't wanna live in microsoft's gilded cage in the meantime
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Oct 16, 2017 16:27
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:so this is kind of an object lesson in the difference between a vendor who works very hard to make developers lives good, and an ecosystem there are plenty of non-Microsoft frameworks in .net that fill the same roles as 1st party things, but you've never heard of them because the 1st party stuff is just that good. also despite java being a fine language and having, as you claim, this amazing ecosystem, people are still abandoning it in droves for .net because this poo poo is just that much better. Even without maven i would still use this stuff over java every single time. Java and .net are part of the same ecosystem of professional development, and right now .net is better in just about every way. if there was something equivalent to asp.net in java i might consider going back to java, but there isn't. despite your vaunted ecosystem, java is still out of date and stagnating.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:55
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people are abandoning java for .net? really?
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Oct 16, 2017 17:02
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yeah. ever since asp.net mvc3. you may not see it cause you're a Linux developer, but its been a huge swing over for anyone doing web "development"
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Oct 16, 2017 17:06
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Shaggar posted:also sql embedded is compatible with sql server on a limited basis because its designed to be used as an embedded db, and doesn't contain a full server runtime. if you need a real server you'd use a real server and sql express is full sql server w/ limited db + instance sizes. you can turn it into any other version of sql server w/ a license change. Notorious b.s.d. posted:microsoft's "service fabric" could be the greatest thing since slice bread and it would still be a dogshit ecosystem to live in because microsoft can't replace a gigantic fuckin army of programmers at non-software companies cooperating in the open
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Oct 16, 2017 17:07
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Fiedler posted:Most such collaborations produce ecosystems full of dogshit. For example, see node. yes but this is not the node thread the java ecosystem is rich and filled with wonderful things. if the same natural processes gave rise only to dogshit on npm, that's a node programmer's problem. java: still good.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:09
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Fiedler posted:If by "sql embedded" you mean SQL Server Compact Edition, then no, you shouldn't use that, because it's dead. I can cherry pick garbage out of nuget too: https://www.nuget.org/packages/scout208.MyFirstProduct.MyFirstPackage/ https://www.nuget.org/packages/Spring.Net/
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Oct 16, 2017 17:20
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i think your coworker might be an rear end in a top hat to be fair, i'm probably the rear end in a top hat too. Shaggar posted:also despite java being a fine language and having, as you claim, this amazing ecosystem, people are still abandoning it in droves for .net because this poo poo is just that much better. is .net on linux ready for prime time, i.e. all the libs too? no matter how good the language and ecosystem is, i fail to believe people are leaving java for c# if it requires deploying to windows.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:27
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Shaggar posted:yeah. ever since asp.net mvc3. you may not see it cause you're a Linux developer, but its been a huge swing over for anyone doing web "development" 
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Oct 16, 2017 17:30
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0x1991BABE posted:to be fair, i'm probably the rear end in a top hat too. Linux users still in total disbelief that their dead gay platform is so old and antiquated. windows deployments are wonderfully easy and you can deploy to azure even easier. Theres no equivalent to asp.net on azure for java. the closest thing is probably elastic beanstalk which is a joke.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:32
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:active directory, the directory service for when you do not actually intend to make any lookups against the directory no, you don't make enterprise customer-base levels of directory lookups against AD because that's not what it's for, i'd fire you in a minute if you tried to implement AD as a store for customer data
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Oct 16, 2017 17:33
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Shaggar posted:the closest thing is probably elastic beanstalk which is a joke. let’s not get too crazy here.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:39
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elastic beanstalk is fine, but its not as well thought out as azure. elastic beanstalk is a wizard around ec2 templating where azure is an actual paas
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Oct 16, 2017 17:40
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akadajet posted:I can cherry pick garbage out of nuget too: Compare the number of downloads.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:47
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dunno why anyone would want to bother with .net considering the jvm has superior languages, superior vms, etc. why tie yourself to the windows platform for a language like c# when you have dozens of better jvm languages available?
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Oct 16, 2017 18:03
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Australian government has different ideas about active directory "purpose" https://www.itwire.com/enterprise-solutions/76513-the-great-australian-citizen-28m-active-directory-domain.html
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Oct 16, 2017 18:20
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Condiv posted:dunno why anyone would want to bother with .net considering the jvm has superior languages, superior vms, etc. why tie yourself to the windows platform for a language like c# when you have dozens of better jvm languages available? theres only one good jvm language and that's java, so idk what you're on about
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Oct 16, 2017 18:27
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Shaggar posted:theres only one good jvm language and that's java, so idk what you're on about  also, i finally learned today what graal is. It's a jvm jitc written in java that jitc itself as it runs also, i learned how to activate it as main JITC in openjdk9: -XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+EnableJVMCI -XX:+UseJVMCICompiler in my benchmarks of it so far, it is 10% faster than the standard jvm if you have time to JIT, but 7% slower in some others. It also doesn't handle scala typeclasses well.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:25
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what are the other good jvm languages? we know it has bad ones like scala and python. I guess you could consider groovy a separate language, but if you're using groovy correctly you're basically writing java.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:26
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Shaggar posted:is there even a use case for javafx? nobody does UIs in java anymore. and yet here I am doing uis in java  web apps are terrible for every use case that isn’t just crud. and we need to run on macos as well as windows, and we’re building on a substantial existing java codebase. it seemed like the obvious thing with hindsight it was a terrible idea because javafx is bad
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Oct 16, 2017 19:32
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Shaggar posted:what are the other good jvm languages? we know it has bad ones like scala and python. kotlin, scala, clojure, frege, etc. lots of good jvm languages to choose from. also, scala is definitely good cause java keeps borrowing from it Soricidus posted:and yet here I am doing uis in java seems p good to me op
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Oct 16, 2017 19:46
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Condiv posted:kotlin, scala, clojure, frege, etc. lots of good jvm languages to choose from. also, scala is definitely good cause java keeps borrowing from it those are all very bad languages. I was asking for the good ones.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:48
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Shaggar posted:those are all very bad languages. I was asking for the good ones. i'm actually surprised a c# lover like you hates kotlin.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:25
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Shaggar posted:those are all very bad languages. I was asking for the good ones. i'm curious if you like any languages that aren't java or c#
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Oct 16, 2017 20:38
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there aren't any good ones outside of c# and java. there are a handful of mediocre ones but most are really bad
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Oct 16, 2017 21:22
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akadajet posted:i'm curious if you like any languages that aren't java or c#
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Oct 16, 2017 22:00
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does kotlin do anything to make it a language instead of a slang? i used it and liked it but all i see is sugar over java. to me kotlin is to java like coffeescript is to javascript except its good. there were no new concepts in kotlin iirc.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:48
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:does kotlin do anything to make it a language instead of a slang? to give one example, it has declaration-site variance for generics instead of java's wildcards, which allows for more programs to be typed. in general the type system is well thought out and designed by people who knew what they were doing
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Oct 16, 2017 23:52
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JewKiller 3000 posted:to give one example, it has declaration-site variance for generics instead of java's wildcards, which allows for more programs to be typed. in general the type system is well thought out and designed by people who knew what they were doing this is compile time tho, right?
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Oct 16, 2017 23:56
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:this is compile time tho, right? yeah. it's also being added to java in the future iirc. i don't know a ton about kotlin since to me it's really more of a scala--, but imo, if any j-lang were a c# analogue, it'd be
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Oct 17, 2017 00:18
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edit: nm, it might've been a bug in my own code triggering an issue that seemed similar to the one I was experiencing with openj9.
Condiv fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 13:28
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Condiv posted:seems p good to me op nah here’s my javafx experience: PHASE 1 oh hey this is really cool. we can just make a scene graph with our stuff and let it render things nicely oh poo poo as soon as the scene gets remotely complex everything slows to a crawl because it’s applying css very slowly to everything. and trying to dynamically add/remove stuff when it’s offscreen doesn’t help because you have to apply all the css before you know how big anything is, and that takes actual minutes PHASE 2 ok we can just use a canvas and draw our own stuff. it’s fast and looks good! oh wait the canvas api is so half assed as to be useless. like you can draw a string, but there is literally no way to find out how much space the string you drew is taking up. you can approximate it by using loving awt font metrics of all things but the results are subtly wrong because javafx font rendering is different. the poo poo part is that all the apis you need exist, they’re just private and have remained private despite a bug asking for a public javafx font metrics api having been open since approximately 30 seconds after the first javafx release PHASE 3 phew, our javafx app finally works properly and fast. except idk why we’re still using javafx because the way it works is to use java2d to render to bitmaps which are then blitted to a canvas
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Oct 17, 2017 19:28
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