|
Sanitary Naptime posted:I’m not worried about what the public perception is, I’m worried about what the media onslaught and plp cuntery is likely to do to the leadership. I know the guy has persevered through the worst infighting and betrayals within the party but this feels so coordinated and relentless that I can’t help but see it finally taking its toll and forcing a resignation. If the chicken coup didn't do that, this isn't either, tbh. Four: what there was a Gang of the last time the Labour right thought starting a new centrist party was a wizard idea.
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 14:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:37 |
|
|
Rarity posted:As far as I'm concerned the only thing he did wrong was specify "Jewish" Trump supporters. We all know the right wing is making this a huge attack campaign and plenty of non-Jews are involved in that as well. We can acknowledge the collusion involved without blaming it all on the Jews. Willsman said “I’ve certainly never seen any” which is dubious. For example Was he asleep through Ken ‘Hitler’ Livingstone jumping up in every available media outlet to make his anti-Jewish babbling
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 14:09
|
|
|
xtothez posted:Stepping down due to this only proves that these tactics work, and gives a great incentive for the papers to keep using them on every last replacement who admits to be left of Blair. Don't forget the press treatment Milliband got for such heinous crimes as eating a sandwich and having a Jewish father. Do you really think this all goes away with a different left wing leader? Its a war, plain and simple. In all wars its all about knowing when to stop advancing and instead hold your ground and the change of rules are probably it. Corbyn has shown time and time again that he has far too much baggage to be a leader to get a out right majority, and thats not due to bad policies its due to the constant attacks due to his absurd amount of baggage he has. Just look at the attacks they were doing at Milliband they were ineffective and had to resort to digging up stuff about his dad or eating a sandwich oddly. What sunk Milliband wasn't the press it was a poor campaign team with until May's 2017 election the worst run campaign in modern history. Corbyn's Labour has shown it can now run left wing campaigns, it just needs a leader whose not going to make it drat difficult for them due to having more baggage than a 747.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 14:14
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Does anyone remember years ago seeing a documentary where Jocky Wilson was involved in an experiment to see who would pay out lots of money for some kind of darts-based Jocky Wilson authorised management training thing? (It wasn't a scam - it was an experiment to see who would fall for it). I'd probably be down for a Jim Bowen management system Sanitary Naptime posted:I’m feeling pretty loving despondent over this row now that Corbyn has apologised for hosting an event eight years ago. The Today programme had a loving gleeful Nick Robinson attempting his best gotcha at it followed up by fuckin John Mann all but saying Corbyn should resign. He actually didn't apologise for it, but he had to say something and everyone wants to spin it as CORBYN ADMITS SHAMEFUL PAST Here's what he actually said quote:Corbyn said: “The main speaker at this Holocaust Memorial Day meeting was a Jewish Auschwitz survivor. Views were expressed at the meeting which I do not accept or condone. That to me is not "sorry, I was wrong", it's "here's why I did it and I'm sorry if that's a problem for anyone". It's not even talking about that one event, it's a general statement about his activism and how this is how he rolls because it's important. He's gotten stick for this kind of thing before, and the response to his response is nothing new either
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 14:28
|
|
|
Cerv posted:Willsman said “I’ve certainly never seen any” which is dubious. For example I think labour needs to adopt all the examples in that definition of antisemitism then if it's used to try and silence criticism of Israel use this to throw open the debate as to the examples effectiveness and highlight the disingenuity of our opponents and their own refusal to tackle racism within their parties. When we've got racists in the party action has to be taken to root them out. Try and make the right look more and more sleazy avoiding making their opinions on the I-P issue plain while beating labour around the head with this. If they back off the party will be less numerous racists and free of the issue in the media.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 14:52
|
|
|
^^^ arguing the toss hasn't worked so far, and those definitions have literally been used to shut down criticism of Israel, so honestly that's a pretty optimistic take! Jeremy Hunt continues his alt-reality propaganda tour where he insists up is down until everyone believes it quote:'At the moment we are heading for a no deal by accident,' says Jeremy Hunt pure accident m8, nobody's fault really - well the EU's fault for not doing any work on this. The tweet's especially good opposite world stuff - smart paternalist Britane is concerned that the EU is gonna mess up their future! They need to take this seriously or they'll be in trouble! Jeremy Hunt, the man who'll literally stand there and stare you out in a TV interview until you give up and leave, is probably the perfect pick for this
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 14:52
|
|
|
Anyone who's hoping for John McDonnell to be the saviour who will be able to get on with pushing forward a policy agenda without having his past dredged up every five minutes is, um, being just slightly optimistic. You're not going to get that until someone from the post-2015 intake is ready to take on and that still won't be for a few years yet. At times like this I like to remember my old man bumping into Jeremy outside the Arsenal during the early days of the chicken coup; he said "don't let the bastards grind you down" and the response was "Oh, we're not worried about anything  "
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Aug 1, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:00
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:Anyone who's hoping for John McDonnell to be the saviour who will be able to get on with pushing forward a policy agenda without having his past dredged up every five minutes is, um, being just slightly optimistic. You're not going to get that until someone from the post-2015 intake is ready to take on and that still won't be for a few years yet. One thing that's amazing about our lad is how he can treat these fuckers the way they deserve - water off a duck's back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
But yeah McDonnell gets all the insane ulstermans up in arms
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:06
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:But yeah McDonnell gets all the insane ulstermans up in arms Personally, I think that's a positive. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
ukle posted:Corbyn has shown time and time again that he has far too much baggage to be a leader to get a out right majority, and thats not due to bad policies its due to the constant attacks due to his absurd amount of baggage he has. What's "baggage" to you is credentials to the left. Someone without a left wing track record will not be trusted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:15
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:^^^ arguing the toss hasn't worked so far, and those definitions have literally been used to shut down criticism of Israel, so honestly that's a pretty optimistic take! People can't literally stop you talking. If you controversially criticize Israel and these definitions are brought out to justify that the controversy is being published and you can keep going with your criticism regardless until either the media have to expand their description of what's going on from whatever one-sided full-of-omission claptrap they come up with or it becomes more and more apparent the lie of racism unique to labour they're fabricating by failing to mention other parties problems. It's not true that we in labour are totally incapable of spreading correct information and highlighting hypocrisy in the age of social media, even if the media will always be against us. Since that's the case anyway there's nothing to loose by continuing to root out this racism while pushing any angle that will lead to a discussion since we know they are in the wrong and this will become apparent if the information is all out there. It's not like there's some alternative since nothing else stops the criticism or gets the racists out of labour fast enough.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:18
|
|
|
ukle posted:In all wars its all about knowing when to stop advancing and instead hold your ground and the change of rules are probably it. Corbyn has shown time and time again that he has far too much baggage to be a leader to get a out right majority, and thats not due to bad policies its due to the constant attacks due to his absurd amount of baggage he has. Just look at the attacks they were doing at Milliband they were ineffective and had to resort to digging up stuff about his dad or eating a sandwich oddly. What sunk Milliband wasn't the press it was a poor campaign team with until May's 2017 election the worst run campaign in modern history. Corbyn's "baggage" is spending 30 years fighting racism, apartheid, illegal wars and opposing policies that harm the most vulnerable people the world (among a shitload of other things). What they're doing to him is the classic Karl Rove tactic of attacking his strengths rather than his weakness. His identity as a politician is fighting racism ergo he is a racist, just as John Kerry's identity was as a decorated veteran ergo he is a coward. It's really scummy, as it turns what should be your best points into something you're forced to defend.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:22
|
|
|
baka kaba posted:I'd probably be down for a Jim Bowen management system Let's see what you could have won!
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:23
|
|
|
I'm not a fan of hiring teams being even more blatant about "keep out the black".
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:32
|
|
|
glad she is dead posted:Corbyn's "baggage" is spending 30 years fighting racism, apartheid, illegal wars and opposing policies that harm the most vulnerable people the world (among a shitload of other things). it owns that the republicans have elected 2 draft dodgers in a row. especially since trump goes on and on about how he loves veterans right as he's deporting them
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:33
|
|
|
Obliterati posted:If you really want your brain to melt, check out ITIL: six hundred pages of processes and subprocesses that are 100% critical to doing IT, except not one of these involves writing code ITIL (and it's tie-wearing cousin PRINCE2) is actually fine. Like all these kind of things though it's (ab)used by people who think that as long they do the bare minimum to get certification that completely exonerates them from having to do any actual management.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:38
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1024657580860362753 The replies to this tweet are rather reassuring.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:45
|
|
|
People who think of themselves on the left and accept the narrative that Corbyn is somehow a bad choice for leader through some really bizarre logic are so cosmically unaware of everything going on and also seem to have no idea as to what their imaginary perfect leader is so you can pretty much safely ignore them until they have their inevitable road to damascus moment and realise how dumb they were.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:47
|
|
|
Surprise Giraffe posted:People can't literally stop you talking. If you controversially criticize Israel and these definitions are brought out to justify that the controversy is being published and you can keep going with your criticism regardless until either the media have to expand their description of what's going on from whatever one-sided full-of-omission claptrap they come up with or it becomes more and more apparent the lie of racism unique to labour they're fabricating by failing to mention other parties problems. It's not true that we in labour are totally incapable of spreading correct information and highlighting hypocrisy in the age of social media, even if the media will always be against us. Since that's the case anyway there's nothing to loose by continuing to root out this racism while pushing any angle that will lead to a discussion since we know they are in the wrong and this will become apparent if the information is all out there. It's not like there's some alternative since nothing else stops the criticism or gets the racists out of labour fast enough. You're basing this on a belief that the truth will out, though. There's no reason to believe that, especially on such a long-running and politically charged issue like I/P Look at it this way - as far as I can see, the Labour code a) adopts the IHRA definition in full, b) includes most of the guidance examples verbatim, c) includes others and actually expands on them with more examples, d) reworks the ones about Israel to allow for criticism of that state, while retaining the language that proscribes accusing Jewish people of loyalty to Israel etc, and e) makes the language a little more robust, with stronger implications that these examples are antisemitic than the original These sound like good steps to me - taking a firm line against antisemitism, calling more behaviour out as unacceptable, and clarifying that criticism of Israel's actions is valid and legitimate, so long as it doesn't involve any of that proscribed behaviour. I'm assuming you think that's a positive thing too - but look, already you want to concede it because there are people who attack any criticism of Israel who are raising a stink about it. Is the media expanding their definition of what's going on? Is there a light being shone on other parties' problems? Is a meaningful discussion blossoming from all this? And does rolling over and effectively going "you're right, those were bad changes about Israel and all, let's just adopt the original examples that have been used to shut down dissent" mean you're spreading correct information and highlighting hypocrisy? Or are you just making it harder to fight those arguments in the future?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
Firos posted:https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1024657580860362753 The replies to that tweet are going to be shrugged off as Corbynista fanaticism or leftist bullying.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:53
|
|
|
Jose posted:it owns that the republicans have elected 2 draft dodgers in a row. especially since trump goes on and on about how he loves veterans right as he's deporting them Of the Republican candidates in the last ten Presidential elections only Dole, McCain and Bush Sr had served on active duty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:58
|
|
|
Thanks comrades, you’re good people! Waking up to my radio shiting out that interview probably wasn’t the best way to start the day. Think I’ll reset my alarm to the default klaxon sound it makes rather than the radio, Nick Robinson is enough to make any side of the bed the wrong one.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 15:59
|
|
|
Don't know if anybody else has been following this but one of the guys pushing the Labour Anti-Semitism thing, Daniel Finkelstein, has been found out by leftist twitter as having been on the board of the Gatestone institute, a far right wing think tank who pushed to forcibly deport all Muslims from Europe. Abi Wilkinson has found out and has been pushing it hard on twitter, which has gotten every terrible opinion writer to try and A) threaten legal action and B) claim that Daniel didn't know about the racism of the think tank he was on the board of. Daniel Finkelstein has gone from claiming that he was never part of the organisation to claiming that he was only on the board in name only, despite earlier tweets showing that he was an active member. He's also accusing Abi of being Anti-Semitic and a crazy bitch. https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024434276643819520 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024438282661371904 https://twitter.com/washyourmouth1/status/1024438998830383106 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024440870681145345 https://twitter.com/Resjudicatamyft/status/1024445273853095936 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024453151112474624 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024453489064337411 https://twitter.com/piombo/status/1024454635761885184 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024613748907159552 https://twitter.com/HKesvani/status/1024615652370395136 https://twitter.com/HKesvani/status/1024616269797044226 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024620671035498496 https://twitter.com/madeinhaste/status/1024620289961979904 https://twitter.com/Blahovic/status/1024631919311564801 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024640006781132800 https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024643332155301888 tl;dr Yer boy who's pining for Corbyn to embrace liberal values and worrying about the incoming transformation into Nazi Britain was on the board of a racist think tank designed to purge Muslims from the West. Gonzo McFee fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Aug 1, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
You missed the best bit, where Finkelstein objected that the Gatestone Institute couldn't be too bad, as that would impugne notable associates of excellent character such as Alan Dershowitz and Henry Kissinger. e: excuse me, it's in there right at the top.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:15
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1024675161918853120
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:Phew I only rate an 'erm' on this chart. I’m Ok if I show them my palms 
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
I love that they're all worked up that Abi called the massive racist a scumbag. Genocide is one thing but watch the PG name calling ma'am.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:26
|
|
|
lol at all the journalists piling into the replies to say he's not racist and surely didn't know anything about the gatestone institute
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1024634334840610817 Hahaha. O'Brien has gone full brainworms.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
so he thinks labour would be polling near 60%?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:34
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:Anyone who's hoping for John McDonnell to be the saviour who will be able to get on with pushing forward a policy agenda without having his past dredged up every five minutes is, um, being just slightly optimistic. You're not going to get that until someone from the post-2015 intake is ready to take on and that still won't be for a few years yet. McDonnell would I think be far more willing to openly call out the bullshit and tell people to gently caress off, which I don't think would be a bad thing. One of corbyn's weaknesses is that if anything he is too nice, patient, and forgiving.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:35
|
|
|
Or half the Conservative vote is purely anti Corbyn. 20 points gently caress off
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:36
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:I love that they're all worked up that Abi called the massive racist a scumbag. Genocide is one thing but watch the PG name calling ma'am. But my civil discourse 
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:37
|
|
|
Fans posted:Or half the Conservative vote is purely anti Corbyn. I really wish there was a "braingenius" equivalent of 
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
Firos posted:https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1024634334840610817 tbh I actually kind of agree with this. If the Labour party had say David Milliband in charge then the press would be actively cheerleading the collapse of the conservative party because they'd know that nothing would change.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:41
|
|
|
learnincurve posted:I’m Ok if I show them my palms According to that chart I'm a baddun but my kid is OK which is ironic as she's 1/2 as white as I am. Then again white extremists loving love their waifus don't they.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:42
|
|
|
*holds up auction paddle* 22 points!
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:43
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:tbh I actually kind of agree with this. If the Labour party had say David Milliband in charge then the press would be actively cheerleading the collapse of the conservative party because they'd know that nothing would change. If Miliband was in charge, there probably wouldn’t be a Labour party after the 2017 general. Remember that while the cap may be Corbyn, the baseline is also Corbyn.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:37 |
|
|
David Miliband isn’t even an option. Who’d have us on 20 points? Cooper? Burnham? Smith? (lol) This is peak “If people just did what I want we’d have a landslide”
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2018 16:50
|
|