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Doopliss posted:The "Dad is talking about faggots again" memory likely belongs to Decker, who we know has a boyfriend named Andy and thinks his dad's a bigot. It's also hypothesized that the self-harm memory belongs to Sarah, though I think this isn't the case for reasons we'll get to later. Honestly, I don't actually understand what's going on in that one. Just a vague feeling of not wanting to see the person, or genuine anger, about them getting together? cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 21:21
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Arcvasti posted:Jesus some of those other memories are unpleasant. For all that they put a content warning on it, it's really hosed up to have trawling through them be a puzzle. Black Robe posted:Oof, that was pretty heavy. I get why they did it this way, but... Arcvasti is right, this is a drat puzzle game. This is a puzzle game about a disabled protagonist fighting to survive (and maybe overcome some... mental health concerns). The litany of pain in the pit is, probably, the worst in-your-face interaction with the unpleasantness of existence, but there are several other sequences later that are, in some ways, more insidious and no less disturbing. The game is very honest with its content warnings, and the opening sequence with the crunch of the connections breaking and the depiction of the slow disintegration of self - not to mention the ghosts on the Abyssal Plain - are a fair warning about the themes of the game on their own. I don't think anyone can "like" the Pit in the sense of enjoyment, but I certainly "like" it as an affecting & effective interactive sequence.
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Feb 28, 2021 21:37
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Doopliss posted:I was really ambivalent about this sequence myself, and I was kind of looking forward to seeing the thread's views on it (with the caveat of the extra content warnings). Having had a bit to collect my thoughts, I've come up with this: There are about four kinds of memories here: -Pisces' painful memories. They're upsetting, but importantly they're not really unexpected, because you already have a pretty good deal of what her deal is at this point -Painful memories which are basically trivial, like the one about bruising your tailbone on a chair. -Painful memories which are hard-hitting, but generally universal. Almost everyone has had to deal with stuff like cancer, or relationship issues, or the death of a pet -Painful memories which are hard-hitting, but that are much much worse for specific people. Generally this is the stuff covered by the content warnings specific to this part. The fourth category should either not be included, or be pared down by settings chosen at the start of the game, instead of just having a wall of content warnings in front of it. Bluntly, the developers hosed up here, which is unfortunate given the incredible degree of empathy they've displayed in general.
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Feb 28, 2021 21:57
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I mean, I think the section is absolutely successful at its goal of emulating "sifting through a pool of pure unadulterated pain for the extremely questionable reward of getting to find out which bits of it are yours." Particularly when it's your first playthrough, and you're not sure which ones to pick or you miss one, and you get to sit there and wonder if you really want to read through it all of it again to the find the missing piece. (The fact that the player gets the option of walking away from this when the people in the stories/Pisces don't is, I think, also part of the point). I feel there's also some implied characterization in Pisces being willing to do this at all; there's certainly an undercurrent of fatalistically dwelling on pain/suffering in some of her memories, the degree to which it defines her being somewhat up to the player's interpretation. Doopliss posted:The "Dad is talking about faggots again" memory likely belongs to Decker, who we know has a boyfriend named Andy and thinks his dad's a bigot. It's also hypothesized that the self-harm memory belongs to Sarah, though I think this isn't the case for reasons we'll get to later. Potentially there's also the one that starts "my mother is crying"; it would fit into Janet's story, but it's definitely generic enough that that could just be coincidental overlap.
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Feb 28, 2021 22:11
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Arcvasti posted:Having had a bit to collect my thoughts, I've come up with this: I honestly don't see the big difference between category 3 and 4. I never had personal contact with cancer, so that one doesn't hit me as hard, but if my mother was going through that, it would hit closer to home. Same way for being misgendered, while that is definitely a common thing for trans people.i can sorta relate to all of these things, but don't feel personal connection to most of them. Can you tell me, which of those you would put into category 4, or in what way they spring out compared to 3? At least to me there is nothing in there which is so much worse than the rest, that I'd consider it a gently caress up. It just feels like it's a really hard thing to discern those categories and I think that editorializing dark inputs from real people feels like a complete nightmare. I have reapect for Corfman for doing this at all. You don't need to answer that, since I don't want to prod which of those usually quite general memories affect you personally. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 22:43
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Nick Buntline posted:Potentially there's also the one that starts "my mother is crying"; it would fit into Janet's story, but it's definitely generic enough that that could just be coincidental overlap. As for last update's subject matter, I have messy feelings on it. I definitely don't think the game ever approaches this again in harshness, or even insidiousness - or if it does, it's in ways that can be trivially avoided. There's also the fact that "horrible" is very different in nature than "triggering" - there's good reason why you have to be careful when writing someone trying to sexually assault a person, but someone trying to destroy the entire world is fine for Saturday morning cartoons. There's absolutely a place for art that would be traumatic to certain groups if it's labeled as such, though you probably should avoid triggering content unless it's justified by the story. Which in this case, it kinda is? When I got to the "Dad says I can't tell anyone" memory on the first playthrough, my first reaction was "ouch, that's really effective". I'm a bit less comfortable after learning they were autobiographical, but I suspect that's a me problem aside from potentially making it more triggering. They chose to participate. The core issue is doing this kind of brutal content mixed in with things that would otherwise be enjoyable to a wider audience, which I think is what y'all are mainly talking about, and it kind of highlights an issue that the entire content warning system runs into: It warns you in advance, but it doesn't really give you options to circumvent it. That's particularly the case since, other than the Suffero sequence, most of the content you get warned about is from 100% unskippable areas. The very fact of the game's sensitivity also makes this a bit awkward - you get the same warning for the adorable coral spiders in the Abyssal Plain that you get for The One Below, and you get the same ableism warnings for Pisces griping about her body than you do the disability-related stuff in the Wailing Pit. That's a tepid-rear end criticism, particularly given the state of content warnings in general, and aside from the Suffero sequence it amounts to more of an "I guess this could notionally be better" comment than anything I'd properly care about. So I guess I do think it kind of sucks that the Suffero sequence isn't skippable in some way just due to how rough it is compared to everything else in the game, like a "just shut my mind off and get it over with" option. Actually, I might even float that on the Discord, since the author's clearly making an effort toward accessibility. I'm hesitant to come down too harshly, as I do like the sequence on its own merits and I think the game is dark enough in other areas that it's not utterly out-of-place, but it is A Lot in a way that players should perhaps have some control over - particularly given it's relatively divorced from the story's essence.
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Feb 28, 2021 22:52
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Yeah, that's definitely what I was (poorly) trying to convey. This is a really good game so far and it would kind of suck to only be able to play part of the way through if you weren't in a good mental space to deal with this part or if it hit some of your specific triggers, and anything that could potentially stop players from finishing and enjoying the full game is probably a design decision that should be reconsidered a bit. Maybe something like you can skim the surface of the memories to get enough information to solve the puzzle and progress the game, but digging deeper and seeing everything will get you, I dunno, extra motes or something.
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Feb 28, 2021 22:57
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Doopliss posted:So I guess I do think it kind of sucks that the Suffero sequence isn't skippable in some way just due to how rough it is compared to everything else in the game, like a "just shut my mind off and get it over with" option. Actually, I might even float that on the Discord, since the author's clearly making an effort toward accessibility. I'm hesitant to come down too harshly, as I do like the sequence on its own merits and I think the game is dark enough in other areas that it's not utterly out-of-place, but it is A Lot in a way that players should perhaps have some control over - particularly given it's relatively divorced from the story's essence.
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Feb 28, 2021 22:59
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cant cook creole bream posted:Technically, that option already exists, if you enable speed mode. But that's mostly for replays, I guess. EDIT: Nah, Speed Mode doesn't let you skip Suffero at all. Doopliss fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 23:11
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Doopliss posted:You know, I've never tried using Speed Mode for unexplored content. I always assumed it only let you do that for stuff you'd already seen, but apparently it works for new content as well. I'm honestly not sure how exactly that works. I think there's an option to force it in the menu. But I never really used it.
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Feb 28, 2021 23:14
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Black Robe posted:Maybe something like you can skim the surface of the memories to get enough information to solve the puzzle and progress the game, but digging deeper and seeing everything will get you, I dunno, extra motes or something. My immediate thought was some sort of "pull everything out at once" option- it would damage you heavily (maybe coded to always do exactly half your health?) but would let you get the memories without having to see the nasty stuff.
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Mar 1, 2021 02:46
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On another topic, since we have a Maiden and a Mother already, I'm wondering if the One Below is some kind of triple goddess/three fates type figure, and we'll meet their third incarnation later.
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Mar 1, 2021 02:57
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What happens if we view the daughter as a giant spider?
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Mar 1, 2021 03:02
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The Lone Badger posted:What happens if we view the daughter as a giant spider?
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Mar 1, 2021 03:04
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I really like the perception shifting puzzles; hopefully we'll see more of them.
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Mar 1, 2021 04:02
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I really love the image of destroying those awful chains on a molecular level. The Maiden really did not like those.
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Mar 1, 2021 07:47
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Arcvasti posted:On another topic, since we have a Maiden and a Mother already, I'm wondering if the One Below is some kind of triple goddess/three fates type figure, and we'll meet their third incarnation later. We've already met the third one, the [redacted] Apologies! I thought of that section as "past content", because we've met and interacted with both. Lokapala fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 12:41
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Lokapala posted:[REDACTED] I know that wasn't really a stretch based on knowledge we've already seen, but can you try not to talk about upcoming events? You've clearly played this game before, and that would have been made pretty explicit in the next update. EDIT: No worries! I've been a bit fast and loose with that myself. Doopliss fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 14:31
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Apropos of nothing, it sounds like the Suffero sequence will be skippable as of next patch. Hats off to y'all. Update this evening, as it generally is on weekdays.
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Mar 1, 2021 19:37
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I just now realized that I've seen you post a bunch of times on that discord in search of answers to obtuse puzzles. So, thanks for that. Actually, in hindsight, that's obvious. Apparently, about a dozen people played this game. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 1, 2021 |
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Mar 1, 2021 21:11
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 Active Content Warnings: .................None..................  Welcome back. Last time, we rescued the man trapped in the Wailing Pit, then traveled into the swamp of concentrated pain at the pit's bottom. We found three of Pisces' memories in the hellpit: One where people were being assholes to her because she was moving slowly in a wheelchair. One where she suffered a horrible leg injury (details unknown) in front of someone named Harvey, who apparently helped her. One where she was sitting with her likely-dying mother in a hospital. Recovering these memories granted us the Suffero spell, which allows us to put off suffering pain for a short while, and we also ran into The One Below's daughter. She had been shifted into the form of a timid, submissive girl bound by mystical chains of misogyny, and we rescued her by reinterpreting the Maiden in her true form - some sort of primal druid-like woman. She told us to visit her at The One Below.  So that's where we're going.  For politeness, we reinterpret The One Below as a dangerous, untamed forest...  And when we talk to the Mother/Spider, there are a third set of options. Aside from a Hecatian trio, they also have some Norn energy - the Maiden spins shadows into thread, the Mother darns socks, and the Spider cuts strands of webbing.   How are you doing?  I thought that by destroying them thereI could change the world. And it did. But not as much as I wished. And it trapped Me in that form. I will spin, and think of what else to do. The One Below is not a passive deity, by the sound of it. I wonder if we have Her to thank for our anti-abuse gains in the 2010s.  What is this place? This is the end of your world.And the beginning of something else. Did you create the web? Creation requires intent.Let's see if we can beg another quest reward out of this one. May I have some of your darkness? That seems an appropriate reward. She finishes the bobbin she's working.A spider drops from the ceiling and cuts the bobbin free with its small fangs. Then it bites off a foot of pitch black thread. The woman hands it to me.  This is like a webship part for Darkness events, except instead of using it once, we just become immune to Darkness-based damage entirely. An excellent thing to have in our pocket. Only the Mother seems to appreciate conversation for its own sake, so we'll leave Her be and return to our webship.  He is standing in the corner.He has broken off a leg of the cot and is holding it like a club. I don't see Peep. He must be hiding somewhere. ==> Good. The man shouts at me: Who are you? Where am I?! I'm Pisces. You're in no danger here. He inhales sharply, as if realizing something.He touches the side of his head, where red crusted blood still traces a line from his ear down his neck. He murmurs something I can't quite hear.  We actually can die here if we're extremely careless - The fairy won't freak out if we shout at him, but he *will* freak out if we start casting a spell. You get two attempts to magically subdue him if he's using a bed leg, and one if he's using a dagger.  The basic option is basic for a reason. Even if we had something to write with, fishing in our pocket for something isn't a good immediate de-escalation. I lead him into the cockpit.I start up the ship's console. I open Spellpad and start typing. I write a short essay on how I found him embedded in the side of the wailing pit.He watches my words with the ashen skinned, jaw-tight tension of someone controlling trauma. I am as brief and factual as possible. When I am finished, he takes a long ragged breath and says:  I am Prince Mathias Magnus of the Autumn Court of Faerie. May I know the name that you prefer? I type: Pisces I see. can u tell me how u ended up in the pit? I...Politics. The top of the wailing pit is in Fairyland. A person who saw me as a rival... ...threw me in. what r u going to do now? We remain sensitive. Mathias went through what's about as close to Hell as you get in this world. I'm being morbid. I'm sorry. This isn't your problem.Can you tell me where we are? the bottom of the ocean I see.Given that, may I impose on your hospitality a little longer? of courseim not going to save you and then drop you off to drown u can stay here for as long as u want. the ship is big. Thank you. That's very kind of you.Particularly given that I almost hit you with your bed. you just came out of the wailing pitive been there and therefore understand im making a lot of stops on the way up to the physical world you can let me know if you want to get off at any of them With that sorted, I turn back to navigating the web. In our continuing quest to avoid going up at all costs, we stop off to see how the Roanoke settlers are doing.  The Light motes are our reward for sending them somewhere actually appropriate - We can always send them to the Abyssal Plain to get them out of the way (Pisces will refuse to send them anywhere that would straight-up murder them), but this suits them much better.  As we're preparing to set off, we have a chat with Mathias. how r u doing? He displays his nearly-mended armor. Better. do u want to talk about what u're doing next? If you wish.To be truthful, I don't know what I'm going to do now. I can't go back to Fairyland like this. are they cruel to deaf people in fairyland? Not particularly. I mean, not unusually cruel. But Fairyland isn't safe for anyone. And Delicia got the drop on me even back when I could hear her coming. What chance do I have now? delicia? Delicia is...Do you watch much television? He gives us different explanations based on our answer here, but we say "yes" so he can keep his train of thought. Delicia is Glinda the Good Witch crossed with Cersei Lannister.She is the front runner for Queen for this autumn throne. She is...going to hurt a number of people. I was trying to compete with her. And that is how I ended up here. Unable to fight her at all. Hm. Mathias has a lot of decisions to make.  Content Warnings: Suicide, Depression, Gore, Ableism, Strangulation, Neck Trauma Sounds like this will be a smooth and painless leg of our journey.  This is one of the trickier obstacles. I'm guessing our newfound darkness resistance doesn't include giant murder-whales that happen to be Dark-aligned. Mathias has made himself a spear out of spare parts. I can distract sea monsters for you.I used to hunt them, when I was young.  Mathias has still got it, apparently.  The Deep Web is saturated with relationships.Thick and liquid. But the next level up, the Web, is not necessarily that way. It is closer to the surface that is the physical world. It is less dense with emotions and its air acts like normal air. You can't swim through it. You have to walk. Which I can't do. I can keep my webship pressurized and liquidbut when I leave...  The light leads me to a guyot. ==> A seamount with a flat top.Large, dark shapes circle the pinnacle. I weave carefully between them to land on the flat peak, near the light. I swim out.  The audio here is dead silent which, in light of the art, is not reassuring.  Perhaps another nexus of suffering, but we won't turn down our wheelchair. I swim up to the top of the pile.I feel a rush of relief--I'd been so worried about how I was going to get around without it. But the relief drops into cold dread when I realize: It's broken. That's why it's on this pile of awful sad trash. I find the only way I have of getting around, and it's broken. Okay. No. Wait. Don't catastrophize.Look at it. What's actually wrong? Maybe I can fix it. The wheels are missing. Okay, that's actually pretty okay. I can fix that. As long as they weren't chewed up by a sea monster, I can fix that. I need to get a look at the axle. As long as the axle isn't damaged, we're fine. The chair is wedged into a mound of broken toys. I start trying to pull it out.  A vicious "scare track" of shrill beeps and high pianos plays.  Out of nowhere, the last few days catch up with us. I feel so tired and stupid and pointless.I'm so tired... Feelings pass. Endure. This could quite plausibly kill us. There's nothing to look forward to.I'll make something to look forward to. Just more staring and pain. Endure. We flail to avoid drowning in it. No one really loves me.For all I know, that's true. I suspect that's a lie. Endure.    This location's soundtrack finally kicks in. It is low and menacing. The Hungry Ghost doesn't find us appetizing, but we probably can't actually take her in a fight. Also, we thought she was dead - perhaps the Hungry Ghost is a bit more resilient than that, or perhaps "Hungry Ghost" is a species.I still say the empty eye sockets were scarier. I've dealt with your kind before. Clearly.You know how to wrestle your darkness. You understand that your soul is water. I respect the power in that knowledge. Who are you? Me?I am no one. Just a ghost. A ghost with an appetite. What does a hungry ghost eat? People.Nothing so crass as flesh. I eat the weak slurry that remains in people when despair has rotted their core. Delicious. That's my chair. I know pain.And I know that it is plastered deliciously over that object. Yes, because it's broken.When it's fixed it will... I hesitate. I don't need to explain this to you.Where are the wheels?  We're going to be here for a while, it sounds like.   Welcome to Geisthome. Geisthome hates you and wants you to die. This is one of the three most involved zones in the game, and is probably the most hazardous of them. Exploring the Ghost's nest reveals a sort of wormhole into the Web, much closer to the surface. The other side looks like a well. It's useless to us without our wheelchair, but it might seem familiar. We can keep talking to the Hungry Ghost to glean some hints. She's being strangely helpful - perhaps she expects the enormity of the task will make us fall into despair. You said a wheel was taken by a Grindylow. What is that? A messy eater.It lives in the reef, to the west. Be wary, my morsel. The reef is filled with monsters. Squicks and gilded boars and terrible crayfish. They will find you more delicious than I do. Who is the troll you mentioned? A most delightful neighbor of mine. He lives to the east in the corpse of a singer. We often dine together. I on soul and him on flesh. I doubt your skin is as resilient as your mind. Perhaps do not announce your presence to my dear neighbor. Who is the kappa you mentioned? A very polite neighbor.He lives in the reef to the west. You said a sea monster swallowed one of the wheels. Do you have any idea where it is? I am sure you saw the sea beasts when you arrived.They circle the mountain. If I recall, the one that snapped up your wheel was serpentine--a sort of sea worm. You're alright, Hungry Ghost (the Hungry Ghost is not alright).  For the sake of all our sanity, I'm making an executive decision that we're dealing with the troll first. As the Hungry Ghost suggested, we'll lie in wait and listen instead of announcing ourselves.  It seems quiet, but those options make me suspicious. We lay low and listen for a while longer.  Seems like the troll is sapient, and speaks Human. If the Hungry Ghost can be believed, the troll also eats people, but that doesn't mean he can't be reasoned with. Should we put him down before he hurts anyone else, try to talk him into returning our wheel (assuming he doesn't ask us to do anything horrible), or just sneak in and grab it? Also, Geisthome has many dangerous predators residing in it, most of which aren't as intelligent as the troll - too many to call a vote for every time. All else being equal, when Pisces encounters a bloodthirsty non-sapient monster, is her first instinct to slay it or avoid it? Doopliss fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 02:40
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How are we stocked for Death after killing the faces?
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Mar 2, 2021 02:56
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The Lone Badger posted:How are we stocked for Death after killing the faces?
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Mar 2, 2021 02:58
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sneak and sneak
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Mar 2, 2021 04:15
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It's really quite nice of the Hungry Ghost to be a warning shot that this area will mess you up, and that you should probably swim back down and get some more stuff if you came here first. We should sneak past the Troll, but prefer to slay other monsters. Who knows, maybe clearing some of them out will make this place safer for the next lost soul to come through here. Maybe not though, it seems to be pretty hard to permanently kill spirits.
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Mar 2, 2021 04:35
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Avoid when you can, kill anything that sees you.
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Mar 2, 2021 04:40
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Yeah, I agree, the Hungry Ghost (or the representation of her, w/e) looked way scarier in the first game. I guess, though, it kind of makes sense for her to not be as scary? She doesn't seem to be the 'final boss' here, just another obstacle in our quest, and we're also a human instead of a spirit of Fire. Gonna vote for sneak and sneak. Even if the troll is smart, that doesn't mean he's not a bastard. Best to avoid conflict wherever we can.
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Mar 2, 2021 05:09
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serefin99 posted:Yeah, I agree, the Hungry Ghost (or the representation of her, w/e) looked way scarier in the first game. I guess, though, it kind of makes sense for her to not be as scary? She doesn't seem to be the 'final boss' here, just another obstacle in our quest, and we're also a human instead of a spirit of Fire. Either this is a different hungry ghost, or it is enormously reduced due to what BEL/S did to it and now it is forced to predate only weakened prey and on a much smaller scale. The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 06:23
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The Lone Badger posted:Avoid when you can, kill anything that sees you.  And try to just sneak and grab our wheel from the troll.
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Mar 2, 2021 06:33
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Kill what you can, avoid the rest. This place is clearly evil and everything here should die. Also, good call on that executive decision. Trying to do east last would be a bit hard.
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Mar 2, 2021 15:07
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 Active content warnings: Suicide, Depression, Gore, Ableism, Strangulation, Neck Trauma Welcome back. Last time, we found ourselves trying to rebuild our wheelchair in a monster-infested reef. Due to a strange vote split, we decided to operate on ninja rules for this region, sneaking past whatever monsters we can sneak past and killing all witnesses. Our first wheel is in a bloodthirsty troll's possession, and we're going to see if we can't swipe it. Why not put on some spooktunes to get into the mood? We continue waiting and listening until we can't hear the troll any more, then move east. As you might infer, the troll is a stealth minigame - running into the troll will be Bad News, but we can listen in each region to identify whether the troll is nearby.  The troll is not moving.Omini will also tell us whether the troll is moving and, if so, what direction. This is important to avoid moving into a screen at the same time as the troll. The troll mentioned he was heading to the garden, so we'll take the opposite route.  We can distract the troll by messing with his house in various ways, but we'll have to get out of the way fast. I find it more efficient to just dance around the troll. Let's see if there's valuable information to the east in the library.  This isn't just a cosmetic library - there's a lot worth studying here. Importantly, even though we entered from the west, going west now will take us to the kitchen, and going south will take us to the hut entrance. This area is set up so it's impossible for the troll to corner us.  Wonder what kind of chaos we could get up to by letting this fella go. The bird hops experimentally to the door and cranes her neck out.Then she shuffles back into her cage, closing the door after her. She looks at me, and seems a bit apologetic that I went through the trouble. That's rather sophisticated. Maybe this is one of those sapient talking birds. The bird coos a tune as lovely as a music box, complete with a slightly tinny quality.It is as beautiful as it is completely incomprehensible.  We know what to do with incomprehensible things. I synchronize my understanding to hers.The bird's tweeting coalesces into understandable speech.  The bird doesn't seem to want us to get eaten, but she also doesn't seem interested in leaving the troll.  As you say, my lady.You do have the bearing of an adventurer.  This bird has a lot of dialogue. Let's start with her name. I am a lovely thing.I was made by the goldsmiths of Atlantis. My voice was tuned by master flutists. My songs were composed by Aon the Great. Yes, but do you have a name? The troll calls me lovely.That is the closest to a name I have. You may call me that. How did you get here? Hint: That comment about Atlantix might be relevant later.  The troll heard my song before he saw me.And so he learned to love that, before he began to covet my body. And so I stay here. And I sing for him. And he protects me. So as long as Lovely stays, she's safe? Why didn't you leave when I set you free? The bird shifts uncomfortably. It was kind of you to think of freeing me.But I do not want to leave. I am happy here. I know he is cruel, and dangerous to others. But he is kind to me. Maybe there's more to it than that after all, or perhaps she's talking herself into it. Still, she seems pretty ambivalent about it. You don't seem to approve of the troll eating people. I do not.I wish he would just eat nightshade and fish, as he does often. Not things that speak. But that is his way. Have you told him how you feel about it? A pretty involved conversation tree. Why?The purpose of life is not to chase pain. Rather to flee from it. Pain and sadness are catalyzing emotions. They let us know when we need to change. They take care of us. When it is their time they should not be ignored. I have never thought of it that way.I have always thought pain was nothing but terrible malice. You make it sound almost kind. Your body will take care of you. There's a reason for everything it does. It keeps going. The bird shifts uncomfortably at my cursing. That was necessity.I would have died. Desperate strength is not true strength. It only comes when I am desperate. Maybe so. But it shows what you can do. Strength is within you. You can learn to bring it out at other times. That is kind of you to say. I don't think she really believes me. All that being said, him feeling sad, or your discomfort at causing sadness, is nothing compared to the pain of being eaten alive. This bird is utterly useless. Maybe we'll have better luck with the books. The books are well organized.What subject should I read about? Alchemy Recipes Sealife Plants Very well-organized. Sealife seems relevant to our interests.  This right here is why we're doing the troll first. This library is a lot, and pretty much all of it is valuable. Pisces gives us an option to take notes on stuff that seems relevant and put them in our inventory, but doing this causes in-game time to elapse and the troll to move.  You know what doesn't take in-game time? Screencaps. I'll post relevant library entries as they come up in game, and there are of course guides on Steam that collate it all for you. If you want to puzzle Geisthome's life forms out along with me, feel free to check it out. Before we make another move, let's see if we're in any danger at the moment. The troll is moving towards the Plants. The troll's still faffing around in the southern gardens, so we have plenty of time to explore the kitchen.  Alchemy is Geisthome's main puzzle mechanic. We trawl the reefs for flora and fauna, and use them to solve problems - either directly or by mixing them together into potions. We can notionally complete this region without alchemy, but only by spending a whole lot of motes. I wonder what the troll is cooking in the big pot, though.  The troll is cooking one of our wheels. Let's fish it out of there. I grab a ladle off the wall and try to use it to fish the wheel out.But as it touches the wheel, the ladle bounces off a protective field that sparks with a faint Tsk noise. drat. It looks like the pot is enchanted with an anti-theft measure. However, these spells are only proof against mundane attempts at taking things.I can get at the wheel with anything magic. A spell, or a motive, or, since I'm magical, my bare hands. We don't have telekinetic magic, and the pot is too heavy to just tip over. We could push it out with air or water motes...  ...but we have hit points to burn and a new spell to try out. I reach into the boiling pot.I feel the bubbles against my skin as faint, tickling pressure. I see my skin turn red as my fingers close around my wheel. I pull my hand out. I immediately put it into the sink and turn the faucet on cold, pressing the ice to it.  Someone suggested that the pain swamp would have broken a lot of people who had to sift through it. Thing is, Pisces has the willpower of a boulder, except rolling uphill toward her body. I examine the wheel.It's both a solid object, and a memory. It's rusted, and sticks instead of turning freely. I can fix the physical form by sorting out the memory. So I start to do that. quote:Healing burns unbearably. quote:baleful and fetid quote:I cannot fix my leg with magic. quote:doesn't need to touch the stump. quote:Melt, in fact. . . . . . I cannot fix my leg with magic.Healing burns unbearably. Prosthetics break. Melt, in fact. It's a cursed wound baleful and fetid but a wheelchair doesn't need to touch the stump. I can still use a wheelchair.  An auspicious start. Now let's get out of here before a troll murders us.  We hightail it back to the guyot and explore the route south. It immediately ends at a pier surrounded by sea monsters. We could snipe the sea monster from here using Death motes, but let's take a look around in more detail. The pier is wooden and sturdy. The sort of old architecture designed to stand the test of time.It is stained with blood and bits of Death motive. I wonder who built it.  Extremely odd, but it seems like we could at least use it to feed the sea monsters. Speaking of sea monsters, the Hungry Ghost described this one as a sort of sepentine sea worm. Cross-referencing with the troll's library suggests that we're dealing with a Classic Serpent - unless the Hungry Ghost was lying to us, I guess. We don't have any meat right now, so we'll put a pin in this puzzle.  In the real ocean, seamounts are many layers below the space where reefs form.Physical reefs need sunlight and the moving water made by tides. This reef formed from water that eddies restlessly as relationships swirl down from the Web. Its plants drink Darkness instead of Light. West is the last direction left to explore. As we enter the reef proper, we get a new search mechanic.  Almost every screen west of the guyot has these search options - we need to select the basic appearance, as well as what it's doing. Despite the sort of menacing ones like "toothy fish" and "holding very still", none of these will maim us if we don't notice them - this is purely to catch fish.  Fish will hang out in specific screens, making this a massive pain to brute force. That said, we remember something seagrass-related from the troll's library, and enter a circular blue glow / meandering aimlessly...  ...and we find an oracle fish. I look into the eyes of an oracle fish.I see six pillars. Lines of purpose. Hungry for motive. ... I see a man sitting by a pale white bed. ... I see a deadly palace. Knives wrapped in chiffon. Some of these might be relevant this game. Others, who knows? The oracle fish isn't big enough to draw a sea monster's attention, but perhaps we'll find a use for it. I easily tap one of the distracted, meandering fish with my USB Drive of Holding. As we explore west, we encounter something nasty looking. This monster is orange, and made almost entirely of slender, curling tendrils.They branch innumerably from a pentagonal body, nested far above me, cradled in coral. The tendrils drift gently in the current. They look delicate, but I don't trust that appearance. I squint and see there are letters tattooed on the creature's tiny body: Quota: 3 Worrying. Let's test the waters with that oracle fish from earlier.   A bandwidth throttler. If we take a closer look at it, its quota now reads "2". We go back, grab a couple more oracle fish, and toss them into the grinder.  Problem solved. We could take circuitous routes around this thing using the "swim up" option back in the seagrass, but this will save us a lot of time.  We start with the southeast corner of this new region, and we encounter a very interesting place to explore. Let's see if we can slip past the merpig.  Apparently not. We could charm our way past using Love motes, but... Well. That would be leaving a witness, now wouldn't it?  Research indicates that we're dealing with a Gilded Boar, and it sounds like the Boar has a natural enemy in the reef. Let's look for some rays.  We find the spinecatfish just southwest of the shipwreck. She looks like a massive catfish, with a cluster of spikes instead of whiskers around her nose and chin.She also has a mane of thick black tendrils. Based on how her mane probes the ground curiously, I think they might actually be arms, like you find near the mouth of a squid. She is searching around the pillar coral. Sounds like she's looking for prey. We do a bit of sequence breaking in the name of a reasonable update length and grab a bright yellow ray from the coral - her favorite. I offer the ray to the monster.Her eyes light up and she swims towards me. I toss the yellow ray to her. She devours it enthusiastically. She swims over to me, examining me with curious eyes, mane waving inquisitively. Hoping for more food.  We can take her to pretty much every location of note, including ones we haven't found yet. We encourage her over to the shipwreck. The monster follows me to the shipwreck.When she catches sight of the pig monster, she stops abruptly. She barks. The tendrils of her mane lash. The spines on her face prickle out in a violent display. The hog monster sees this, emits a terrible grunting roar, and charges.  "Two corpses born of instinctive hatred" is a poetic way of putting it. Almost like this wasn't our doing.  And now the ship is undefended.  The chest is filled with golden doubloons.Well that's neat. Not as useful as matters or motives, but neat. Into our inventory it goes. No immediate use, but I'm sure someone in the Sea++ will exchange goods for currency.  The statue looks more appropriately mystical.  . . . . . A simple letter-by-letter riddle - we input Euros.  The air around me stills.But it is still infused with a certain amount of magic. Gained 1 Air And I believe I have a helpful passenger. Gained Euros the East Wind Euros is a webship friend! He mimics Air motes, and we're glad to have him. Now that we think about it, these corpses are probably big enough to get the Classic Sea Serpent's attention. Just feeding it won't help us much, but the troll's library gave us a couple interesting ideas for "seasonings".  A couple options spring to mind: We could give it some emetic and fish our wheel out of the bile, or we could give it some very unhealthy live meat. After all, those bastards did ding us for seven damage back during webship travel. Will we kill the serpent, or just make it vomit our wheel out? Doopliss fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Mar 3, 2021 |
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Mar 3, 2021 05:01
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cant cook creole bream posted:Also, good call on that executive decision.
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Mar 3, 2021 05:02
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it's funnier to make the serpent barf, and probably easier to get at the wheel after
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Mar 3, 2021 05:28
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Doopliss posted:Haha yeah, wouldn't it be funny if I had to sneak past the troll every time I wanted to grab a plant, and then sneak past the troll again to brew a potion with it? Ha... I was more talking about the idea of randomly bumbling through the sea part and seeing lots of weird and dangerous creatures with no frame of reference. While letting the sea serpent survive may go against my murder heavy suggestion, barfing is more fun. We can always decide to kill it later on. Doing both of those in reverse order seems a bit more complicated. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Mar 3, 2021 |
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Mar 3, 2021 11:23
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Vomit is probably the easier option, hagfish are not easy to catch or do anything with. "Produces slime when agitated" is a ludicrous understatement that makes it sound like they just get a bit slippery. No. You put a hagfish in a large bucket of water and in less than a minute you've got a bucket of pure thick slime. They're freaky bastards. Also  rip catfish, she just wanted kitty treats.
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Mar 3, 2021 15:38
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Black Robe posted:Vomit is probably the easier option, hagfish are not easy to catch or do anything with. "Produces slime when agitated" is a ludicrous understatement that makes it sound like they just get a bit slippery. No. You put a hagfish in a large bucket of water and in less than a minute you've got a bucket of pure thick slime. They're freaky bastards. She died doing what she loved! Is there a better way to go? The Catfish Valkyries will keep her safe now.
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Mar 3, 2021 16:51
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 Active content warnings: Suicide, Depression, Gore, Ableism, Strangulation, Neck Trauma  Welcome back. Last time, we hatched a plan to force the Classic Sea Serpent to puke up our wheel. We scoop up the merpig's corpse as bait, and grab an interesting looking horn at the same time. We help ourselves to the catfish corpse while we're at it. poo poo still be spooky. The syrup we're brewing requires a downfin, so we make our way back to the rays, now free of the catfish's tyranny.  This is the other major part of the alchemy minigame - looking at the text descriptions and comparing them to the visuals from the troll's library. Clicking on the rays gives us more detail on each of them, so we don't just need to guess which black ray we want.  Plot twist: Despite literally having "black" in the name, the gray ray is the only one with triangular fins (as well as being the only thing in the troll's library that could arguably be called "gray"). We scoop it up and move on.  North of the throttler, we find a cave with all sorts of coral varieties.  Painless enough, but let's see what's deeper in the coral.  Uh oh. That glowing text looks familiar. The horrifying thing is coming closer.The text updates without us doing anything. We get the hell out of there.  You just made our list of things to do today, squick.  This screen isn't hugely consequential, but... I examine the yellow spiral, and find traces of Light wedged between its polyps.I find enough to make a mote. Gained 1 Light ...we say "yes" to free motes.  We swipe another oracle fish on our way to the troll's garden and start looking for a "laburnum".  The other yellow flower reads "Its leaves are broad, rough edged, and covered in scratchy hairs." Clear that it refers to a different plant if you cross-reference them, but you could think that describes the laburnum if you aren't clear on whether the serrations are hairs.  We narrowly dodge the troll and duck into the vegetable garden.  Once we can hear the troll digging, we dash for the alchemy station.  Sugar (6) refers to ingredient cabinet number 6, so we don't need to retrieve it elsewhere. I turn up the heat and stir the pot.I add a pinch of stabilizer, and perform the finishing touches that should make the mixture coalesce into a stable reagent. The bubbling subsides. I look into the pot and see...  It used to be that the flurid coral *literally* had to be fresh - as in we had to pretty much beeline from the cave to the alchemy station. This was cut, as it felt like a cheap "gotcha" and it could mislead people into thinking they picked the wrong coral.  I apply the Syrup of Ipecac to the hanging bait.Now we're ready to do some fishing.  Unlike standard fishing, we lie in wait before we cast our hook. These monsters all have a healthy respect for one-another, so none of them will go for the bait if another monster is closer. Again, we need to match the description to the monster - a segmented sea worm.  Close, but not quite.  Perfect. I turn the crank.The mounted hook extends, rotating forward like a crane, sections lengthening and unfolding to reach out into the water beyond the pier. There is no catch, and I need to keep my hand on the crank to keep it from unwinding. The hook baited with a merpig corpse dangles in the open ocean. The nearby sea monster is extremely interested in the bait, and swims closer. I guess that explains the hook - it's for harvesting motes from sea monsters. But back to our prey.  Couldn't have gone smoother, except for nearly getting eaten. As before, it's been mangled, and we're going to have to do another memory puzzle to restore it. quote:it was weirdly complicated quote:but damned if I didn't do it on my own. quote:I remember going to the corner store by myself quote:with victory. . . . . .  Nice and self-contained. Two wheels down, two to go.  West of the rays, we find the Grindylow's cave. Likely, one of our wheels is within.  Corpses decorate the outside of the cave.They seem to have been intentionally strewn. Intestine garlands. Sprinkled rib bits. It looks and smells like a celebration of violent death. This corpse looks like a giant lobster, but colored pale white. This corpse looks like a giant lizard. Its head is intact and it is wearing a hat, which somehow is even more terribly gruesome and sad. This corpse is savaged and unrecognizable.We can never have too many inventory corpses, so we grab the unrecognizable one. I start to take the corpse.As if called by a disturbance to the carnage, the grindylow emerges.  That's one more for our witness list, though it might technically be sapient. Anyway, we have more important things to worry about right now. Let's make peaceful diplomatic contact. The grindylow smiles with its shattered teeth.The grindylow reaches towards me with its long, long arms. Amendment: Let's get the hell out of here.  This may be relevant later, but right now we need to leave.  Let's not go that way for the foreseeable future. I don't think stealth is an option in the Grindylow's territory.  Exploring *well to the north* of the grindylow's cave, we find a bunch of perfectly ordinary human women who definitely aren't a threat. I approach the women lounging on top of the rocks.They watch me curiously. One waves. Coming closer I confirm what I had suspected from a distance. They are all entirely nude. Hello? This is starting to ring some bells, but they actually do seem non-threatening. Ligeia erases her first message and writes another.MAY I ASK WHAT YOU ARE? I am an open sorcerer. There it is. We're pretty clear on what sirens are, especially if they're trying to avoid talking. Ligeia smiles. It seems she was bracing for some sort of reaction, and is relieved when it doesn't happen.PLEASED TO MEET YOU TOO! PLEASE SIT WITH US.  A wealth of information. I wonder how they feel about their neighbours. Can you tell me about the grindylow? Ligeia writes:DANGEROUS. BUT STUPID. Can you tell me about the Hungry Ghost? Ligeia writes:SHE IS NOT MOVING WITH THE TIMES. I have no idea if mixing italics into freehand writing should be impressive to me, but it is. Have you seen a wheel that is also a memory? Ligeia writes:I KNOW THE KAPPA'S SHRINE HAS A NEW TREASURE. CHECK THERE? BE CAREFUL THOUGH. HE WILL EAT YOU IF YOU AREN'T POLITE. A useful piece of intel. I quite like not getting eaten. What is everyone doing with their hands? Ligeia writes:OUR VOICES ARE MAGICALLY BEAUTIFUL. ANYONE WHO HEARS US BECOMES ENTRANCED AND MUST TRY TO COME TO US. Ligeia continues:IT IS ABSOLUTELY EXHAUSTING CONSTANTLY BEING SURROUNDED BY INFATUATED MORTALS AND FISH. ALSO CONSENT IS IMPORTANT. AND NOT CAUSING SHIPWRECKS IS ALSO IMPORTANT. ASL JUST MAKES EVERYTHING EASIER. That is very responsible and I appreciate not being enchanted.Not sure how relevant ASL is to our personal interests, but we can think of someone who might find that very helpful right now.  I go and get Mathias from my ship.We weave our way through the reef, back to the Sirens. Despite the fact I warned him, he is unprepared for the experience of being surrounded by naked women. He is endearingly flustered. That passes quickly though, when he learns about ASL.The Sirens can use it to talk without speaking. He can understand it without having to hear. He throws himself into learning it. I try to learn too. It seems useful. The Sirens are happy to teach us.  Oh, the actual passage of time. Hopefully that won't come back to bite us later, but Mathias is our friend.  Speaking with your body is fundamentally different from speaking with words.Expression matters in everything. Excitement is an exclamation mark. An inquisitive look turns a sentence into a question. There are limitations I hadn't expected. I can't raise my voice to make a point or grab someone's attention. I hadn't realized how much I depended on that. I learn that the other Sirens are named Thelxiepeia, Molpe, Himerope, Aglaope, Raidne, and Tele.They are more interested in us the more easily we can talk to them. They do not like talking about Odysseus, Homer, or anyone from Ancient Greece. They nurse old pain and resentment. It drips from their words and poisons their expressions. They are trying not to let it make them vicious.  And then they are gone.Mathias needs a moment alone to collect himself, and swims by himself back to the ship. A week well spent. An eel hangout is directly below the sirens, and south of *that*...  ...is the kappa's shrine. He's a bipedal turtle.There's an indent in his head, surrounded by a monk's cut of hair. He's the size of a toddler. He would be adorable, but there's a gravity and sense of threat to him that somehow belies that. Probably safer to talk to him. Not greeting him would be impolite, and I'm not sure we can take the kappa.  Can you tell me about the wildlife in the reef? Mmm. Beware the squick in the coral cave.But know that it is confined to the darkness, so if you bring light, you will be safe. Also do not fear the spinecatfish by the pillar coral. She is a kitten. Sometimes I play with her, and feed her the bright rays. Those are her favorite. This is where we were supposed to learn that the catfish likes bright rays. No, I don't feel guilty about the catfish, why do you ask? Let's see if he has any Grindylow leads. He is a coarse and rude creature.I dislike him greatly. I would drown him if I had the strength. We share a dislike. Is there a way I could help you gain that strength? He taps his beak meditatively. If I could eat all of my favorite foods, all together. Then I think I would have the strength to defeat him.  It's a potential method of dealing with the grindylow, but Pisces is too intimidated by the kappa to try any funny business. No Death motes, no poisoning his food. No option but to ask for our wheel outright. Have you seen a wheel that is also a memory? I have. It was a gift at my shrine. It belongs to me. Yes. It matches your spirit. You have my permission to enter my Shrine and retrieve it. But know that if you do not show proper reverence, I will drown you. He recognizes that it's a part of us, and I suppose he recognizes that denying us it would be impolite. Let's see if we can push our luck a bit. Could you possibly bring it out here? This is probably up there with the tutorial fish for my favorite lines. But let's see if we can exploit his politeness for a bit more information. That is a reasonable question.It would be rude of me not to answer it. He taps his beak thoughtfully.After a few moments, he looks satisfied with his thoughts. There are three things you must do.Honor the gate before you pass through it. Purify yourself at the basin. Pray at my shrine. At the gate.You must do one thing. You must offer respect once to the gate before you pass through it.  This is, apparently, in line with proper Shinto shrine etiquette. I suspect the kappa is obfuscating things in hopes that we'll fail, though.  This is not quite proper shrine etiquette, but it's at least inspired by it - and the kappa is most definitely trying to screw us. For those who want to play along at home, "immediately before your final action" means "before your final politeness action", not grabbing the wheel. That is how you respect my shrine.If you do not do as I said, I will drown you. And then I will eat your corpse. He looks very satisfied with himself. We set off under the kappa's unnerving gaze. . . . . .  This one's simple as we could ask for. We bow and continue.  This one's a bit rougher, but still relatively straightforward. I take the ladle and dip it into the water.I pour water over my left hand. I pour water over my right hand. I pour water into my hand and use it to rinse my mouth. I tilt the ladle back so that water runs back over the handle. I walk safely into the shrine.  Now we get to work.  The kappa actually does accept bribes (5 motes of any type), but we're not a coward. Naturally, we choose to offer Dark. I put the mote in the box.I bow to the shrine. I bow to the shrine. I clap my hands together. I clap my hands together. I press my hands together.I give my attention and focus to the shrine. That is how I pray. I bow to the shrine.I reach out and take the wheel.  You'd think this one might be undamaged, but the caster joint is stuck and won't rotate. We'll have to repair it like the others. quote:to warn people not to touch my goddamn chair. quote:Susan got me a necklace made out of shark teeth quote:blue LEDs quote:so that my chair could look like something called TRON. quote:with a merrabbit on it. . . . . . Susan got me a necklace made out of shark teeththat I hung off the back to warn people not to touch my goddamn chair. H0pp3r got me a seat cushion with a merrabbit on it. Harvey's apprentice got me blue LEDs and Harvey attached them to the wheels so that my chair could look like something called TRON. And Harvey made the chair itself, of course. Harvey is Decker14's true name. It seems like Pisces knows a lot of people in Decker's open sorcery community. Now the grindylow is the only thing between us and the Deep Web. The kappa suggested that he could slay the grindylow for us if we fed him his favorite foods, and we have some indication that he's incapable of lying, but it might be we're not comfortable giving the kappa any more strength than he already has. Do we ally with the kappa, find a way to non-lethally swipe our wheel from the grindylow, or just sink 5 Death motes into the bastard? We have two other lower-priority issues that need addressing. First, the squick from the coral cave is still on our hit list, and killing it conventionally will cost us 5 Death motes. Second, now that we know what the pier is for, we might have the opportunity to fish up some more motes. It's probably not worth using our treasure chest of doubloons as a fishing lure, but there might be lower-hanging fruit that would get us some motes at a lower cost. Why not check out the troll's library and post any ideas?
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Mar 4, 2021 05:32
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I suspect there's a wait to bait the big mean whale we saw into snacking on the squick for us, that might be a good start. I don't see a potion for it though.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:56
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We can probably bait the squick into following us with Fear motes.
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Mar 4, 2021 08:09
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The shipwreck had "take some of the hull" as an option, so could we use that to bait a mote from the Black Sawtooth? Also, are the monsters shown in the latest update the only ones at the pier, or did we just stop going through the list once we reached the immediately relevant one? If the other "Huge Monsters" from the library are also there, we could potentially bait the Giant Squid with the lobster corpse from the grindylow cave (possibly a Terrible Crayfish), if the squid's tentacles don't count as "appendages" and the Banfish with the hatted corpse (presumably a Griefer), I bet.
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Mar 4, 2021 10:02
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