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TheRat posted:The glazers are absolute leeches who bought the club with the clubs own money and has cost the club ~£1.5b in debt, interest and dividends. I know that, but what material difference does that actually make? They splash more cash than anyone other than city or Chelsea, have a fan-service manager who starves his kids for misbehaviour, and regularly compete for domestic and European cups. They are also fractionally less ethically lovely than an oil club or an oligarch club. Things could be a lot worse.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:31
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Can you hurry up and get to your actual point? It's incredibly public knowledge the majority of United fans loving hate the Glazers, they've stopped investing in the ground and training facilities and literally saddled the club with a gently caress load of debt so they can skim millions off doing absolutely gently caress all else. Supporting/liking the manager has naff all to do with anything. Also lol at "starves his kids"
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Aug 19, 2021 19:23
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NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:Also lol at "starves his kids" Can't believe Sir Marcus lets him get away with this
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Aug 19, 2021 19:28
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NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:Can you hurry up and get to your actual point? It's incredibly public knowledge the majority of United fans loving hate the Glazers, they've stopped investing in the ground and training facilities and literally saddled the club with a gently caress load of debt so they can skim millions off doing absolutely gently caress all else. Supporting/liking the manager has naff all to do with anything. My point is that it's ridiculous that the Utd fan base are almost exactly as dissatisfied with their ownership as that of Arsenal, given the differences between the clubs performance and transfer spending. Sorry if that makes you shirty, i am not making a moral judgement on you.
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Aug 19, 2021 19:46
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The Perfect Element posted:My point is that it's ridiculous that the Utd fan base are almost exactly as dissatisfied with their ownership as that of Arsenal, given the differences between the clubs performance and transfer spending. Sorry if that makes you shirty, i am not making a moral judgement on you. The man utd owners have zero redeeming qualities. Nobody should be satisfied with them.
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Aug 19, 2021 19:50
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The Perfect Element posted:My point is that it's ridiculous that the Utd fan base are almost exactly as dissatisfied with their ownership as that of Arsenal, given the differences between the clubs performance and transfer spending. Sorry if that makes you shirty, i am not making a moral judgement on you. The Arsenal owners are less evil but more incompetent. The Glazers are more evil but less incompetent. In conclusion, American football owners are a land of contrasts.
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Aug 19, 2021 20:03
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We can't all be owned by Italian TV magnates (but not one of the funny ones)
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Aug 19, 2021 20:10
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The Perfect Element posted:My point is that it's ridiculous that the Utd fan base are almost exactly as dissatisfied with their ownership as that of Arsenal, given the differences between the clubs performance and transfer spending. Sorry if that makes you shirty, i am not making a moral judgement on you. You're still wide of the mark since we discovered it was literally the sheer will of Ferguson and competence of Gill keeping the club in and around success while Chelsea and City had become/were becoming the new big boys of English football. If not for those two, through entirely the fault of the Glazers, United would have slipped at least as far as Arsenal have since 2005. The main difference being seen now is the Glazers care more about being in the top four than the Kroenkes do but that doesn't change what massive leeching cunts they are nor does it change the fact they're holding the club back. There's also the whole European Super League thing they were wholeheartedly behind making happen. You seem determined to pick out some sense of entitlement where actually, they're just yet another pack of billionaire cunts that can gently caress off, thanks.
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Aug 19, 2021 20:34
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it remains odd to me that people assume that fans don't have some level of insight and resentment of the rampant financialisation of the game represented so clearly by the glazers and woodward, and the super league it really isn't all about winning or the owners being willing to spend (some of the money that the club makes) on the club, there is genuine value to a sense of commitment. the more football turns into a vehicle for financial acrobatics the more fragile it is as a community phenomenon and a sport, and fans do have a sort of visceral understanding of this
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Aug 19, 2021 21:22
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I'd definitely rather be owned by the Glazers than I would spending a billion pounds of literal blood money every year as part of some Middle East sportswashing project, tbh I'd probably pack it in at that point and take up rowing or amphetamines again (whichever is cheaper) At the same time, I'd rather be a fan-owned club in the Championship Which is easy to say, of course, and we'd probably end up like Liverpool fans in the Joe Cole era, where "we're happy to be a mid-table club" as long as we only ever lose games to the top four and win the other thirty (lots of 8th-place clubs having 90-point seasons), but I'd probably get a nice certificate for my one share to put in my office
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Aug 19, 2021 21:23
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Black and gold until we’re winning again and spending half a billion dollaridoos 
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Aug 19, 2021 21:24
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NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:You're still wide of the mark since we discovered it was literally the sheer will of Ferguson and competence of Gill keeping the club in and around success while Chelsea and City had become/were becoming the new big boys of English football. If not for those two, through entirely the fault of the Glazers, United would have slipped at least as far as Arsenal have since 2005. The main difference being seen now is the Glazers care more about being in the top four than the Kroenkes do but that doesn't change what massive leeching cunts they are nor does it change the fact they're holding the club back. There's also the whole European Super League thing they were wholeheartedly behind making happen. As I say, I'm not making a moral judgement, it is just striking that a club that continues to achieve a relatively large amount of success can still have such a dissatisfied fan base relative to others in the league. Literally ALL PL clubs are owned by billionaire cunts, and all those billionaire cunts would turn their clubs into corporate behemoths if they could, because that is in their nature. Unfortunately businesses or clubs of that size just aren't run by benevolent local businessmen or fans anymore, if they ever were. When you're as big a club as Man Utd, you have a very limited number of ways in which you can actually be owned : capitalists, oligarchs or oil states. As you say, the glazers at least seem to have an interest in keeping the club in Europe and towards the top of the league, and are bank rolling it accordingly ; what more, realistically, can you hope for?
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Aug 19, 2021 21:28
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The Perfect Element posted:When you're as big a club as Man Utd, you have a very limited number of ways in which you can actually be owned : capitalists, oligarchs or oil states. As you say, the glazers at least seem to have an interest in keeping the club in Europe and towards the top of the league, and are bank rolling it accordingly ; what more, realistically, can you hope for? a certificate in a £4 sparkly frame from tescos also a fundamental stake in the values and oversight of your club, but in a form that has a little holographic watermark
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Aug 19, 2021 21:31
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Bape Culture posted:Black and gold until we’re winning again and spending half a billion dollaridoos Didn't realize you were a Pittsburgh Steelers fan Ash.
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Aug 19, 2021 21:31
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The Perfect Element posted:As I say, I'm not making a moral judgement, it is just striking that a club that continues to achieve a relatively large amount of success can still have such a dissatisfied fan base relative to others in the league. For them to gently caress off. United were a publicly traded company before those shithead leeches came along and were doing just fine. As fans of the club we're well entitled to want them to gently caress off, too.
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Aug 19, 2021 21:32
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Bape Culture posted:Black and gold until we’re winning again and spending half a billion dollaridoos i just want an owner who brutally murders journalists. is that so much to ask?
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Aug 19, 2021 21:47
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Jose posted:i just want an owner who brutally murders journalists. is that so much to ask? Ken Bates is retired and those rumours were never substantiated
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Aug 19, 2021 21:54
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Jose posted:i just want an owner who brutally murders journalists. is that so much to ask? Depends if Piers Morgan is still trying to do twitter bants with Gary Lineker or not that crisp money goes a long way
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Aug 19, 2021 22:00
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NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:For them to gently caress off. United were a publicly traded company before those shithead leeches came along and were doing just fine. As fans of the club we're well entitled to want them to gently caress off, too. Would like to see the Knighton and BSkyB timelines for a laugh.
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Aug 19, 2021 22:04
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The Perfect Element posted:As I say, I'm not making a moral judgement, it is just striking that a club that continues to achieve a relatively large amount of success can still have such a dissatisfied fan base relative to others in the league. The Glazers would probably have been fine had they not caused Manchester United to go into massive debt and pay millions for debt servicing only for the privilege of being owned by the Glazers.
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Aug 19, 2021 22:09
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the biggest crime of the glazers is not bankrupting man utd
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Aug 19, 2021 22:47
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I'd definitely rather be owned by the Glazers than I would spending a billion pounds of literal blood money every year as part of some Middle East sportswashing project, tbh I'd probably pack it in at that point and take up rowing or amphetamines again (whichever is cheaper) No fan owned club is surviving in the Championship these days. It's a money pit.
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Aug 19, 2021 23:52
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The Perfect Element posted:As I say, I'm not making a moral judgement, it is just striking that a club that continues to achieve a relatively large amount of success can still have such a dissatisfied fan base relative to others in the league. I mean, to try and put it more succinctly, you seem to be trying to tell United fans we should be grateful to the Glazers and lmfao gently caress right off with that
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Aug 20, 2021 00:13
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Shrapnig posted:Would like to see the Knighton and BSkyB timelines for a laugh. I think Knighton goes along a similar trajectory to United up to 2004 and BSkyB eventually goes like the glazers but with more trophies beforehand from ego spending.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:14
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The Perfect Element posted:I know that, but what material difference does that actually make? They splash more cash than anyone other than city or Chelsea, have a fan-service manager who starves his kids for misbehaviour, and regularly compete for domestic and European cups. They are also fractionally less ethically lovely than an oil club or an oligarch club. They are mainly mad because they’ve stopped winning. By the way, what happened to the protest? Haven’t heard much about it after Sancho and Varane arrived.
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Aug 20, 2021 07:36
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Xabi posted:They are mainly mad because they’ve stopped winning. By the way, what happened to the protest? Haven’t heard much about it after Sancho and Varane arrived. You didn't hear much about it before they arrived either, because there was a meeting between Joel Glazer and fan representatives with promises made and people are giving them a chance to make good on those promises.
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Aug 20, 2021 07:51
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Manchester United fans are stupid babies please allow them to grow as stupid babies need the most care and attention
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Aug 20, 2021 12:08
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NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:I mean, to try and put it more succinctly, you seem to be trying to tell United fans we should be grateful to the Glazers and lmfao gently caress right off with that You seen to be taking my posts incredibly personally, which is a bit weird. I'm not saying you should be putting up statues to them, no, but it could be so much worse, both in terms of transfer spending, club aspirations, and the ethics of the club ownership itself. Do you disagree that Utds owners are fundamentally better than arsenal's? If not, then you shouldn't disagree that it's incongruous that the fan dissatisfaction is roughly the same as arsenal. If so, then I think you're probably just objectively wrong and letting your bias cloud your judgement.
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Aug 20, 2021 12:39
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The Perfect Element posted:Do you disagree that Utds owners are fundamentally better than arsenal's? Man Utd owners have taken 1.5billion out of the club and put nothing in. Yes, they are fundementally a lot worse than Arsenals.
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Aug 20, 2021 12:51
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Saying that United’s in a better position probably takes too short-term a view on the impact of ownership. Who the hell knows what will happen if United goes through financial troubles or when the Glazers want out? That debt is an existential question. Arsenal’s mismanagement at least seems to have somewhat straightforward outcomes — they either get good on the pitch, or they stay bad and slowly melt away. edit: typo i’m bad at phone typing Vegetable fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 13:21
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I imagine there is a long line of Petro State guys waiting to buy Utd tbh.
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Aug 20, 2021 13:24
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CyberPingu posted:I imagine there is a long line of Petro State guys waiting to buy Utd tbh. Oil have some of that.
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Aug 20, 2021 13:27
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I guess the long term debt is an issue I haven't given enough weight to, that's true, so there are potential problems in the future. On the other hand, I still think I'd rather be in Utd's position than Arsenal's, because that club is on a long, slow and seemingly irreversible downward trajectory, and other than maybe occasionally progressing in domestic cup competitions, has literally nothing for fans to get excited about.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:48
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Arsenal's decline started long before Kroenke though. If you want to blame one pivotal moment it's probably leaving Highbury, but more than that spending a lot of money on poor players and not replacing Wenger with someone good is to blame more than Kroenke owning them.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:50
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I think there's just a fact of life in football that long-serving managers shape clubs in their own image and when they leave the adjustment period is very, very difficult to manage. It's one thing to set your club up like Chelsea or Man City where the manager is just a hired gun who comes in to try their tactics on an established setup for a few years. It's another to have a really long-serving manager reshape the club from top to bottom like Wenger or Ferguson did. Both of those managers, in their final seasons, were dragging bad sides to the top or thereabouts through sheer force of will (it's easy to forget now, but Arsenal finished 3rd in 2014-15 and 2nd in 2015-16, when Leicester won the league - that was only five years ago!). When they leave it means the whole club has to be rebuilt and that's extremely difficult even if you do have competent hands-on owners. Man U have managed it, sort of, but it's taken a decade and it's been made possible by mind-boggling financial resources derived from global noodle partnerships. Arsenal haven't, and don't have the deep pockets to spend their way back to the top like United could.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:32
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TheRat posted:Arsenal's decline started long before Kroenke though. If you want to blame one pivotal moment it's probably leaving Highbury, but more than that spending a lot of money on poor players and not replacing Wenger with someone good is to blame more than Kroenke owning them. The bad spending really started during the Kroenke era when they signed Xhaka, Mustafi, and Lucas Perez in the same window so it’s somewhat of an open question whether those were Wenger signings or Kroenke advanced stats signings. Wengy definitely deserves at least some of the blame there, though. There’s a rumor going around that there’s been a covid outbreak among Arsenal players, with the league refusing to cancel the game. Laca and Auba both have it at least.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:37
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All American ownership sucks poo poo and people should be as horrified by their presence in English football as they were at the possibility of the Saudis buying Newcastle or whatever. Arsenal ended up stuck with a particularly incompetent, lazy and disinterested one, while United are stuck with one of the more cynical and greedy group of bastards. They all need to gently caress off, regardless.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:51
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an_mutt posted:All American ownership sucks poo poo and people should be as horrified by their presence in English football as they were at the possibility of the Saudis buying Newcastle or whatever. Arsenal ended up stuck with a particularly incompetent, lazy and disinterested one, while United are stuck with one of the more cynical and greedy group of bastards. They all need to gently caress off, regardless. 
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Aug 20, 2021 16:31
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blue footed boobie posted:The bad spending really started during the Kroenke era when they signed Xhaka, Mustafi, and Lucas Perez in the same window so it’s somewhat of an open question whether those were Wenger signings or Kroenke advanced stats signings. Wengy definitely deserves at least some of the blame there, though. 1. Elneny 2. Xhaka 3. Asano 4. Holding 5. Perez 6. Mustafi 7. Lacazette 8. Mavropanos 9. Mkhitaryan 10. Aubameyang He spent big on quite a few players that turned out to be very middling (Mustafi, Xhaka) or plain bad (Perez). But he did left behind a decent squad -- Ozil was still top class, Koscielny was holding that defense together, Bellerin looked like a world beater. And for a while Lacazette and Aubameyang had a good scoring record playing together. In any case I don't blame Kroenke for bad signings; quite clearly it's the football people who should be held responsible.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:20
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I remember when Utd and Arsenal fans would bitch over who's team was better. Now all they have is who's owner is worse
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Aug 20, 2021 18:58
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