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socialsecurity posted:Unless it's the_steve and your post is disagreeing with a succ zone poster then it gets probed right away as posting against posters or personal attacks, meanwhile his friends calling others We'll start a thread to discuss the Feedback here in the new year, hopefully by then Jeff and the Admins will have wrapped up. As it is, let's return to Current Events in the US.
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Dec 1, 2021 17:50
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Lib and let die posted:This seems like it's pretty in-line with the Democrats' party values; they've decided individual states should determine if they take renter's aid or Medicaid expansion funds as well. What's the cause for concern here? heck, let's not forget that they want this to apply to the universal pre-k as well seeing as how that's currently part of BBB!
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Dec 1, 2021 17:57
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Mellow Seas posted:Boy, you sure bring up Bob Casey Sr. a lot, certainly the person most responsible for the current assault on abortion rights is a guy who left government 26 years ago and died 21 years ago. Yes, Bob Casey Sr. was a Democrat, yes he was a dick, yes he created a landmark SCOTUS case, but he has literally nothing to do with this issue in 2021 except that he's the only Democrat you can find to blame it on instead of the the party that devotes itself to restricting reproductive rights every day of the year. Counterpoint: quote:The 5 provisions at issue in Casey are summarized below. I urge you to read the wiki to understand just how key Casey's law was to the current state-level restrictions. It's hard to overstate the ruling's impact & the reaction to it from abortion-rights groups at the time it was made. (It was Planned Parenthood, for chrissake, that challenged the law.) eta: thx for the name correx; I always get the evil gov. mixed up with the evil cia director bc both their bullshit was going on during that time. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 17:58
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Amy Coney Barrett just made the argument that: - Roe v. Wade was shakily decided (not totally unfair. A lot of legal scholars agree that creating an explicit right to privacy from the 14th amendment and then using the concept of a right to privacy to legalize a medical procedure was the court searching for a compromise to reach an outcome they felt was right). - That the court can only protect rights that people "need" and the rest have to be hashed out at the legislative level (!?!) - That women don't "fundamentally need" abortion because they can give babies up for adoption and relinquish their parental rights. (!??!?!?!?) That's pretty wild even by Supreme Court Justice motivated reasoning standards. She criticized the shaky legal theory they created Roe v. Wade and how vague the standards were and then... followed it up by advocating a new wild legal theory where courts can only protect rights that you "need" and the standards of what are "needed" are apparently just "whatever feels like it is necessary." Alito actually stepped in and tried to "clarify" for her that she was thinking out loud and working through a logic train and not proposing an actual legal theory because it was damaging the case.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Amy Coney Barrett just made the argument that: Nobody should be surprised that this psychopath is abusing her power, she was literally put here to turn the SCOTUS into a cult church and that's what she's doing. The only thing that's going to matter is what the Democrats do after they kill Roe. Any hope that it wouldn't happen is over after this morning. The rest of the arguments will be an exercise in the less stupid trying to wipe the blood off the knife the more stupid are excitedly waving around to try and preserve their legitimacy.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:13
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Lib and let die posted:In news that's shocking to no one, left-aligned movements have become the targets of systems we were assured were only going to be used to target The Bad Guys! I am shocked that this website that refused to allow automated takedowns of ToS violations because they would take down conservative politicians, was OK with allowing automated takedowns of stuff that will disproportionately protect conservatives.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:19
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Sanguinia posted:The only thing that's going to matter is what the Democrats do after they kill Roe. Their fundraising emails will blot out the sun.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:19
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Well it was a good run, but RIP Roe v Wade
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Dec 1, 2021 18:26
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Sanguinia posted:The only thing that's going to matter is what the Democrats do after they kill Roe. On a national level, they'll be "deeply concerned and/or disappointed" by the ruling, and that'll be it. Solidly blue states like NY and CA won't really be impacted by Roe going away, and since the impact of Roe being gutted won't really be clear until well after the 2022 midterms (assuming they release the ruling in June), the GOP probably takes the house, since the DNC is probably going to decide that the "double down on Trump comparisons" that worked so well in Virginia should be their national strategy.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:30
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man, the party that wants big government off our backs sure is using the government to get further and further onto our backs...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Dec 1, 2021 18:35
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InsertPotPun posted:man, the party that wants big government off our backs sure is using the government to get further and further onto our backs...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm The only correct Big Government is my Big Government.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:37
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InsertPotPun posted:man, the party that wants big government off our backs sure is using the government to get further and further onto our backs...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm You just missed the fine print, where they define "small government" as one that's a perfect size to fit into a uterus.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:40
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Lib and let die posted:Their fundraising emails will blot out the sun. I bet they will also perform the tried and true method of yelling about republican politicians being hypocrites and getting incredulous when it doesn't work.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:43
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socialsecurity posted:Unless it's the_steve and your post is disagreeing with a succ zone poster then it gets probed right away as posting against posters or personal attacks, meanwhile his friends calling others For what it's worth, back during the Feedback thread there were some posters commenting about how USPol/USNews/US Current Events threads were actually just chat threads. If you're not aware, you can click on the Re: column values and see the top 30 posters for a thread. Here's the Nov US Current Events: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=3983623 and here's the previous iteration which ran much longer: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=3965530 I tossed those in Excel and interestingly both threads are about 40% posts by the top 30 posters. This is not unusual for D&D, actually. Most threads in D&D have 40-60% or more of all posts by the top 30 posters. Is that a good thing to have threads dominated by a couple dozen posters? Does that make this a "chat" thread? Well, it's not any more of a chat thread than the previous iteration or other D&D threads. A couple dozen users make up the lion's share of posts in all D&D threads. What changes is who is  Previous top 10: Leon Trotsky 2012, zoux, Willa Rogers, CommieGIR, Dapper_Swindler, Flopsy, VitalSigns, FlamingLiberal, How are u, evilweasel November top 10: VitalSigns, Leon Trotsky 2012, Willa Rogers, How are u, Gumball Gumption, TheIncredulousHulk, Lib and let die, CommieGIR, Mellow Seas, Jaxyon (I've bolded the names of posters who dropped off the "Top 30" list in previous thread and those who are now on it and weren't before so you can see some of the change) examples: zoux, Dapper_Swindler, Flopsy, and evilweasel have basically disappeared from the thread (there are others too but I'm not gonna sift through all of it). Gumball Gumption, TheIncredulousHulk, Lib and let die, Mellow Seas are much more prolific than previously Leon Trotsky 2012, Willa Rogers, CommieGIR, VitalSigns, FlamingLiberal are examples of posters that were prolific in both. tl;dr - all D&D threads have the lion's share of their volume dominated by a small number of posters, that's typical. What changes is who is posting a ton. Is that a good thing? No idea.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:46
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InsertPotPun posted:man, the party that wants big government off our backs sure is using the government to get further and further onto our backs...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Accusations of hypocrisy and 5 bucks will get you a sandwich. Hypocrisy is built into every single humans life and pointing it out is just 2000s era Return to Sanity decorum remnants leaking. Politics is about deciding which groups get favored over others, picking winners. I mean, if hypocrisy mattered the Dems wouldn’t be run by a bunch of millionaires and funded by billionaires.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:46
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A very real, but unlikely, possibility is that Gorsuch and Roberts want to expand the allowed restrictions under Roe and Casey, but the other 4 conservatives want to go farther and they end up punting on any wide-ranging decisions. Roberts voted against granting Cert and even hearing this case at all. He's clearly not 100% on board with going all the way despite his previous rulings in the mid-2000s.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:46
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Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:47
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Fritz the Horse posted:For what it's worth, back during the Feedback thread there were some posters commenting about how USPol/USNews/US Current Events threads were actually just chat threads. If you're not aware, you can click on the Re: column values and see the top 30 posters for a thread. Here's the Nov US Current Events: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=3983623 and here's the previous iteration which ran much longer: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=3965530 This is a really good post, gonna grab this and share it in the Mod discussion forum.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:49
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A big flaming stink posted:Well, thank Bret for reintroducing one of the few issues that will give the Dems actually policy to run on "Vote for us and we might fight to return things to the way they were before Republicans completely hosed it up" is peak Dem, for sure.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:53
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Fritz the Horse posted:For what it's worth, back during the Feedback thread there were some posters commenting about how USPol/USNews/US Current Events threads were actually just chat threads. If you're not aware, you can click on the Re: column values and see the top 30 posters for a thread. Here's the Nov US Current Events: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=3983623 and here's the previous iteration which ran much longer: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=3965530 I'll cop to feeling much more comfortable to posting in D&D, specifically in this type of fast-moving/current events style thread with Handsome Ralph no longer mashing buttons here.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:55
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. Why would preserving abortion rights nationally require any of this? Democrats have the trifecta, they can just pass a law codifying Roe if they want
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Dec 1, 2021 18:59
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. Who is doing this? I mean, I’d say if anybody’s to blame as a “lib” id say RBG and to a lesser degree her fan club, as well as the political cowardice of the Dems in general. I don’t think this is a Good Thing and this post you’ve made feels very much like you somehow think leftists are to blame here. Why would I donate thousands of dollars to my local women’s clinic, and my wife volunteer for escort duty there weekly, if this result was positive to me? Maybe take a step back and ask why you’re mad at who you’re mad at. It’s not like leftists haven’t been saying the Dems are weak-kneed on abortion in this very series of threads since Tim Kaine was the VP nominee, if not before. Are you pissed because people have been predicting this outcome? Like…what does the left have to do with any of this, considering how powerless we seem to be in American politics? Make it make sense!
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Dec 1, 2021 18:59
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Why would preserving abortion rights nationally require any of this? Democrats have the trifecta, they can just pass a law codifying Roe if they want A barely 50 seat hold in the senate has never really been considered a trifecta for passing legislation no matter how many times you insist it is.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:02
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. Literally nobody is doing that. They're mad that the Dems aren't going to do anything to substantial to respond to this obvious danger that was predicted years/decades ago. Quote where you see this happening or stop making generalized comments about perceived clique drama. TheIncredulousHulk posted:Why would preserving abortion rights nationally require any of this? Democrats have the trifecta, they can just pass a law codifying Roe if they want Yeah so that's not reality either.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:03
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I've been assured fir years now that the republicans would never follow through with this because it steals one of their issues they sell to their base. I guess we'll see if doing that gets them more votes or less. This loving sucks and I have no doubt that alabama will jump on this quick as poo poo if the ruling happens as we think it will
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Dec 1, 2021 19:08
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Jaxyon posted:Literally nobody is doing that. They're mad that the Dems aren't going to do anything to substantial to respond to this obvious danger that was predicted years/decades ago. They could if they had party discipline and demanded a minimum amount of ideological purity rather than whatever unifying principle is there besides “not those guys” which turns out to be an ineffective pitch when it’s “not those guys (but we share a lot of the same views and can’t stop them when we don’t)” What I’m hearing here is that the Dems can’t claim to be the bulwark against anti-choice forces anymore because to many of those anti-choice forces are democrats and wouldn’t vote to ram this past the filibuster rules. Hell of an act, what do you call it?
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Dec 1, 2021 19:10
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. Is anyone here actually saying that or are they just (rightfully) assuming that this is a bad thing that will also have an inept response by dems?
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Dec 1, 2021 19:10
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. Who is doing this?
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Dec 1, 2021 19:11
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Well you see someone made a joke about Dems fundraising instead of passing laws with their control of all branches of the government so that means the Left love Republicans and wants to kiss them for banning abortion
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Dec 1, 2021 19:11
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So, for the past week or two Matt Bruenig's been chewing on the childcare proposal in the BBB bill. His more quickly digestable musings are gone because he does that annoying thing where he deletes every old tweet, but he's aggregated his grievances in the following; Childcare provision will only be guaranteed in 14 states (assuming partisan unity from the democrats): https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2021/11/22/build-back-better-does-not-implement-the-child-care-and-pre-k-plans/ The means testing is absurd: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2021/11/29/visualizing-the-child-care-subsidy-cliffs-in-the-dem-proposal/ And now, that the state incentives are not very enticing to begin with: https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1465679815110017026?s=20 Which obviously contributes to the first link, which is that this plan needs to be approved through every chamber of a state's government. Bruenig's current argument appears to be that, rather than a piecemeal, means-tested, veto-vulnerable system that needs to cycle through every state apparatus, democrats should pursue a universal system that ignores income, and recollect from the undeserving through taxes. Norway appears to have come to the same conclusion as Bruenig: https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1465825271886528514?s=20 I'd be interested in hearing from some of the more optimistic voices in here as a counterbalance. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 19:12
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pretty soon america's number one export will be sad documentaries about living in america.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:16
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Fritz the Horse posted:Leon Trotsky 2012, Willa Rogers, CommieGIR, VitalSigns, FlamingLiberal are examples of posters that were prolific in both. I need to log off
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Dec 1, 2021 19:17
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. Please stop inventing things to be angry about. There's plenty of real issues to go around.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:18
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Update on the School Shooting https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1466015507224702976?s=20
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Dec 1, 2021 19:20
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CommieGIR posted:Update on the School Shooting Instead of killing each other for black Friday deals, America has moved to killing each other with black Friday deals. Progress, baby!
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Dec 1, 2021 19:21
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Neurolimal posted:So, for the past week or two Matt Bruenig's been chewing on the childcare proposal in the BBB bill. His more quickly digestable musings are gone because he does that annoying thing where he deletes every old tweet, but he's aggregated his grievances in the following; The fact that the incentives run out at such a time where it is a very distinct possibility that republicans will be in power and thus not renew it, makes me think that even a bunch of blue states wouldn't want to bother implementing it 'lest they be stuck holding the bag.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:22
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World Famous W posted:I've been assured fir years now that the republicans would never follow through with this because it steals one of their issues they sell to their base. I guess we'll see if doing that gets them more votes or less. That was true for a long time. More recently the party is overrun by True Believers who don't understand that, and it probably will hurt them in the long run. Short run, it's going to suck major rear end.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:24
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Sanguinia posted:Seeing the Own The Libs crowd crow over women losing their bodily autonomy really warms my heart. Looking forward to when you all organize that general strike and save us all. Might want to put a rush on that given today's events, I'm sure all those Republican Voters you think you can find material conditions solidarity with will be lining up. I'm sure browbeating leftists will cause the democrats who have a majority in the legislature and executive to pass protections, just gonna wait here, any day now.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:24
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selec posted:Who is doing this? I mean, I’d say if anybody’s to blame as a “lib” id say RBG and to a lesser degree her fan club, as well as the political cowardice of the Dems in general. You think I'm pissed at "leftists?" I'm pissed because I'm sick of seeing people who are more-leftist-than-thou in this thread gleefully crap on the notion that the Democratic Party might fix something when the reality is if they don't then the situation is hopeless. All the alternatives to the Democratic Party doing something about this problem are a loving fever dream. I get mad about things any sane person should get mad about and told how anger isn't productive or I'm spewing hyperbole, but I guess bemusement at our societal charnel house is totally moving things forward. The political nihilism in this thread is more pervasive than in some C-SPAM threads. The mocking phrase "things can't get better," is used to deride people who still hope that the Democratic Party and the American Political System can produce good outcomes, but I think the self-proclaimed true leftists are the ones that don't believe things can get better, because every time they get worse they just crack jokes about the Dems being useless or intentionally complicit controlled opposition and then either ease back into their baseless hopes of cross-party worker solidarity or continue the wait for Climate Change to bring our extinction because its already too late. I'm loving tired of it. Of all the things to just roll into your grooves on, Roe being eliminated is one that I actually hoped there might be a little bit of empathy over. Instead its more of the same poo poo.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:24
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Edit response to above: It's very telling that while you are mad at people for not trusting the Democratic Party, you aren't actually arguing that the party is trustworthy, but just nothing else can be done if the Democratic party doesn't do it therefore we must trust them. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Oh hey here's a fun new means testing story from former co-workers. It's a current event that probably won't make the news, but should. A single mother was receiving title 20 assistance. At the end of her approval period she was sent a reapplication paper. This paper told her what to submit with her reapplication. When reapplying benefit recipients are expected to just provide all the necessary documents before the approval period is over based on a generic list they are sent, they are not contacted or sent notices about what to submit based on their individual circumstances they report like they are when they first apply. One of the instructions was that if you have a child support case in the state it can be accessed by the agency administering title 20 and you do not have to submit any documents related to the support. On the last day of the approval period, a Saturday, a worker went and started processing her documents. The worker went into the child support system but found that they could not access the mother's child support order information because it is a case marked as confidential, meaning only some managers can view it. This is usually done when either party of the support order has family that work in government and could access their information, I think. I never really dealt with that part when I worked there. Anyway this mother applied to renew her child care, submitted everything she needed and did not submit the document she was explicitly told she did not need to submit. Then the worker encountered an unexpected issue accessing that document. It was a Saturday and the worker could not call a child support manager who would be able to access the document. So the worker denied the child care reapplication due to not having that info. As a result, the mother was told that she had to pay when she dropped her child off the following Monday. Since the mother did not have the hundreds of dollars per week available she spent most of the next month missing work. Now even when my former coworker inevitably finds that the administrative agency hosed this up, there's no real relief available to the mother. If she paid for any child care the child care will be paid from title 20 funds and she can be reimbursed but all the time of work she missed is just gone. That's assuming she still has her job by the time the decision is implemented. gently caress means testing. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 19:26
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