June 2022 Current Events: Everything Sucks

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > June 2022 Current Events: Everything Sucks

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

Turns out cops aren't supposed to know that arresting people for satire facebook pages is a violation of the first amendment now.

https://ballsandstrikes.org/law-politics/qualified-immunity-facebook-page-novak-parma/

quote:

Court Grants Qualified Immunity to Cops Upset By Obvious Parody Facebook Page
How could police officers have possibly known [checks notes] what the first item in the Bill of Rights says?

LAW & POLITICS
BY LISA NEEDHAM MAY 31, 2022

Given the right�s fixation on Big Tech censorship and what it imagines the words �free speech� to mean, you might think that conservative judges, when given the opportunity, would afford maximum protection to a dumb parody Facebook page. You�d be crushingly wrong. In Novak v. City of Parma, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals recently had a choice between ensuring some thin-skinned cops suffered no consequences for their actions, or defending the much-vaunted ideals of free speech. As is usually the case when courts have a choice between protecting cops and doing literally anything else, the cops came out on top.

This case began when one Anthony Novak of Parma, Ohio, created a Facebook page called �The City of Parma Police Department.� His page parodied the real Parma Police Department�s page in an overblown and obvious way, offering community outreach services like �free abortions in a police van� and advertising a �Pedophile Reform event� featuring a �No Means No� learning station.

When the real Parma police learned of this outrage, they responded in a normal, measured wa�haha, no, they somberly announced a full investigation and sent a letter to Facebook demanding that it retain all the data related to the fake page, a step that typically precedes litigation or, in this case, criminal charges. They then issued a press release warning the town about the fake page, as if a parody ad offering abortion care performed by cops were a grave threat to public safety. Novak deleted comments that noted his page was fake, and posted to his fake page the real police department�s warning about it. After that, he took the page down, as he was worried he�d get in trouble.

He was right. The page�s deletion was not enough for the intrepid members of the Parma Police Department. They got a search warrant for Facebook, learned Novak was the author, and arrested him, charging him under an Ohio law that makes it a crime to use a computer to �disrupt or impair� police functions. Novak spent four days in jail before a jury acquitted him. Eventually, he brought this lawsuit alleging�and this is a technical term�a truckload of hilariously obvious First Amendment violations.

In a normal world where the federal courts still worked, this isn�t even a close case. Parody and satire is protected speech under the First Amendment, and the more obvious the parody, the more likely it will receive protection. Previously, the Supreme Court has acknowledged that parody can �provide social benefit,� and that parody necessarily borrows from the original to make its point. Even bad parody is covered; as a New York federal judge wrote in a 1992 case about trademark infringement, �First Amendment protections do not apply only to those who speak clearly, whose jokes are funny, and whose parodies succeed.�

But in Novak, Sixth Circuit didn�t reach the free speech issues. Rather, their decision turns on qualified immunity, the judge-created doctrine that protects police from civil lawsuits when they are alleged to have violated someone�s constitutional rights. Under qualified immunity, cops are not on the hook even for flagrant violations of rights as long as their conduct didn�t run afoul of �clearly established� law.

As Hannah Mullen has noted for Balls & Strikes, the Supreme Court has since read this loophole so generously that cops are presumed to have no knowledge they�re doing something wrong unless a previous case with nearly-identical facts exists in which a court decided cops did do something wrong. Under the prevailing view of qualified immunity, you could avoid a conviction for going 120 MPH in a school zone simply because previous convictions had only dealt with speeds of up to 85 MPH, and you therefore didn�t have enough firm guidance not to push the needle into the red.

And that�s what the Sixth Circuit decided here, too, in a decision from a conservative all-star panel of George W. Bush appointee Chief Judge Jeffrey Sutton and Trump appointees Amul Thapar and Chad Readler. Thapar, writing for the panel, asserted that Novak couldn�t cite to a case that was exactly the same as this case�one that �clearly establishes� that �deleting comments or copying the official warning is protected speech.� Thus, the police couldn�t have known that arresting him for running a joke Facebook page was wrong.

This is ridiculous, particularly in contrast with the court�s broad reading of Ohio�s disruption statute�the law under which Novak was charged. The Sixth Circuit found there was no floor for what counts as disruption of a public service, so the fact the cops simply felt disrupted by phone calls about the fake page was enough to make the statute apply. Novak was supposed to be on notice that creating a fake Facebook page was enough to get him arrested, but the cops couldn�t possibly understand that parody is free speech because there had never been a case exactly factually like this one.

This use of qualified immunity to protect cops who were upset about a social media joke has a particularly stupid coda. Per The Verge�s Sarah Jeong, two judges on this panel employ as clerks former Stanford Law Federalist Society members who love free speech so much they tried to stop a classmate from graduating for his crime of posting an objectively hilarious flyer mocking FedSoc for being rife with insurrectionists. The Federalist Society to federal courts pipeline, it seems, is running as smoothly as ever.

The Novak decision infuses the conservative legal movement�s �free speech for me, but not for thee� ethos with a little gratuitous Back the Blue energy, just for fun. But the result is the same: Speech is free, except when it makes powerful people sad, in which case cops�with the legal system�s blessing�can do what they want.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 14:44

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 9, 2024 06:37

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Turns out cops aren't supposed to know that arresting people for satire facebook pages is a violation of the first amendment now.

https://ballsandstrikes.org/law-politics/qualified-immunity-facebook-page-novak-parma/

Well it's an ammendment, it wasn't in there from the beginning! Are we going to make it a crime to not update your phone now too??

# ? Jun 2, 2022 14:52

Old Boot: May 9, 2012; Buglord

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

It won't effect poo poo. It's a side show from the rest of the news, a soap opera of millionaires fighting to protect their egos. People love when rich celebrities air their dirty laundry (or sheets), that's all. Nothing will come of it.

I mean this with my whole heart that I hope you're right. I'd like at least a few previously-thought-impossible things to continue to not happen.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 14:55

Mustang: Jun 18, 2006; “We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Personally, I couldn't care less about what happens in the lives of rich people. They're aliens as far as I'm concerned, I struggle to find anything in common with people that much money. gently caress em both.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 15:36

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

Old Boot posted:

I mean this with my whole heart that I hope you're right. I'd like at least a few previously-thought-impossible things to continue to not happen.

Every minute of this trial aired on the news is pure side show. The world is burning, there have been 20-something mass shootings in two weeks, there's a hot war and several cold ones, abortion rights, and trump judges pulling strings for Dr Oz. There are vastly more important things to talk about, but they're being papered over with coverage of two rich morons dragging each other through the mud.

Bad things will continue to happen, which means media is going to pump up the Kardashian index. I bet Kim/ye's first kid has their own show within 5 years, so americans can be dazzled by the fabulous wealth of a child that will fail upward until they peak at an overdose.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 16:05

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Turns out cops aren't supposed to know that arresting people for satire facebook pages is a violation of the first amendment now.

https://ballsandstrikes.org/law-politics/qualified-immunity-facebook-page-novak-parma/

I hate qualified immunity and the way it's applied oh so much.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 16:18

Handsome Ralph: Sep 3, 2004; Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!

Acebuckeye13 posted:

for anyone who's going to a park this summer, please do not approach the wildlife. There are literally no good outcomes.

Post from the May thread (I just returned from vacation) but oh my god, I saw like three separate groups of tourists doing poo poo like this. Just returned from a 10 day trip seeing the Grand Canyon, Bryce, Zion, Petrified Forest, etc. and the number of tourists doing really stupid poo poo was :psyduck:

I got fed up at one point and ended up "politely" telling off one family because they kept straying from the paths at Petrified Forest (which they explicitly tell you to stick to so you don't gently caress up the biome/crust) and picking up pieces of petrified wood, which they were clearly thinking about taking home, but kept dropping anytime someone looked at them. They quickly hosed off to their car after I said they weren't supposed to leave the trail or pick things up. My friends joked that it was probably because I looked like a park ranger (was wearing green hiking pants and a light colored shirt with my hiking hat). Felt good though.

Aside from terrible people, holy poo poo those parks own. Cannot wait to return, words and photos don't do justice how loving awesome they were.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 16:18

The Aardvark: Aug 19, 2013

Grand Canyon does indeed own. Next time I go I want to get a site down around Phantom Ranch and take my time hiking down and up the canyon.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 16:29

Handsome Ralph: Sep 3, 2004; Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!

We hiked on the South Kaibab Trail (only to the half way point) and I decided that I def. want to come back next year and do a hike down to the river, camp for the night then hike back up the following day.

I've flown over it so many damned times and it always looked amazing from 30,000 feet up, but seeing it on foot was very much a :stare:

moment for my brain. Crack pinged my brain in a good way.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 16:52

Sentinel: Jan 1, 2009; High Tech
Low Life

Mustang posted:

Personally, I couldn't care less about what happens in the lives of rich people. They're aliens as far as I'm concerned, I struggle to find anything in common with people that much money. gently caress em both.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 17:11

tak: Jan 31, 2003; lol demowned; Grimey Drawer

stackofflapjacks posted:

I was standing in the road working construction and one cop drove by. I said, "Hey there's kids that skip school down by the creek everyday the last two weeks."

This police lady said "Oh we can't talk to them because of the new use of force laws."

It was some idiotic abdication of community duty in a small town, for political pouting by the police of WA after the legislature asserted civilian control of the police. The police have since 'well aksually'd their way into not doing poo poo in Washington since. They are trying to prove that if they do nothing crime will go up. The use of force laws get cited as why they can't do any number of things. I say, excellent, the police were poo poo at community building, mental health crisis response, community justice etc let's fire all these crybaby deliquent cops who are actively refusing to do their job and replace them with mental health teams, social workers, etc

Abolish police ty

I have a few more anecdotes but it's a representative sentiment that the WA police are on a paid strike in the state, when it suits

"Abolish the police because they wouldn't use violence against kids for skipping school" is a new one, I'll give you that.

Don't call the cops unless there's immediate danger of physical harm you fuckin weirdo

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jun 2, 2022 17:29

Notahippie: Feb 4, 2003; Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Discussion Quorum posted:

I have not lost a child, thank gently caress, but my understanding is that you never stop grieving. I know I wouldn't.

I have a family member who was killed in Iraq in December 2005. The family support officer assigned to his family offered to wait until late December to take any next steps "to let you all have your holidays before dealing with it." You'd think if anybody would know what not to say it would be one of those guys, but not so much.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 17:44

Oxygenpoisoning: Feb 21, 2006

Notahippie posted:

I have a family member who was killed in Iraq in December 2005. The family support officer assigned to his family offered to wait until late December to take any next steps "to let you all have your holidays before dealing with it." You'd think if anybody would know what not to say it would be one of those guys, but not so much.

I�ve had to do casualty assistance officer duties a few years back. It was for an accident and not combat related. The training is minimal on the most important part, how to be empathetic and emotionally supportive. The training is basically how to fill out the forms. Any officer can get pinned with it, and lovely units will put the dirtbags on the job instead of people with 1/2 a care about others.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 17:55

Old Boot: May 9, 2012; Buglord

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

Every minute of this trial aired on the news is pure side show. The world is burning, there have been 20-something mass shootings in two weeks, there's a hot war and several cold ones, abortion rights, and trump judges pulling strings for Dr Oz. There are vastly more important things to talk about, but they're being papered over with coverage of two rich morons dragging each other through the mud.

Bad things will continue to happen, which means media is going to pump up the Kardashian index. I bet Kim/ye's first kid has their own show within 5 years, so americans can be dazzled by the fabulous wealth of a child that will fail upward until they peak at an overdose.

Yeah, but the reason people are paying attention to this extends beyond even what everyone has said, and now that I have access to links and poo poo I will just put these here and fade into the background bc I'm on Twitter for career stuff. I was bombarded by this throughout the trial and watching from the sidelines has been weird. Very weird. And it hits funny when it looks like maybe Daily Wire shelled out 50k to promote the trial on IG and Facebook. That, and there was apparently a huge uptick in bots on Twitter throughout the trial.

TikTok's algorithm got gamed hard somehow because people who had no reason to have videos drop into their feed just had them there suddenly. It was more relentless on there than on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1527005407935606790

It's like a new layer of farce. So, like, beyond the demoralizing effect, there's the guaranteed polarization and a spread of 'ugh who gives a poo poo' as a topper.

Like I said, I hope you're right. But this is worth keeping an eye on.

EDIT vvv yes exactly

Old Boot fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 2, 2022

# ? Jun 2, 2022 18:03

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

I've read that a PR firm was hired to make a spectacle out of Heard. So, more rich people problems and solutions combined with heavy doses of cultural misogyny to sell the desired point.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 18:12

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Turns out cops aren't supposed to know that arresting people for satire facebook pages is a violation of the first amendment now.

https://ballsandstrikes.org/law-politics/qualified-immunity-facebook-page-novak-parma/

You'll be shocked, I'm sure, to learn that Trump appointed this judge to the 6th. He previously was a federal judge appointed by W.

Here's the opinion if you wanna roll your eyes into the back of your head for a bit:

https://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/22a0090p-06.pdf

Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jun 2, 2022

# ? Jun 2, 2022 18:27

Notahippie: Feb 4, 2003; Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Oxygenpoisoning posted:

I�ve had to do casualty assistance officer duties a few years back. It was for an accident and not combat related. The training is minimal on the most important part, how to be empathetic and emotionally supportive. The training is basically how to fill out the forms. Any officer can get pinned with it, and lovely units will put the dirtbags on the job instead of people with 1/2 a care about others.

The guy ended up being really good - he was from a Ranger battalion and was able to talk to our family from the perspective of somebody who had been in the field, and did a really good job facilitating the process side of things. It was just that initial stumble about thinking that grieving is something you can just put on the side for a little bit that sat wrong.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 18:42

Oxygenpoisoning: Feb 21, 2006

Notahippie posted:

The guy ended up being really good - he was from a Ranger battalion and was able to talk to our family from the perspective of somebody who had been in the field, and did a really good job facilitating the process side of things. It was just that initial stumble about thinking that grieving is something you can just put on the side for a little bit that sat wrong.

That�s good. I�m glad you�re family got someone who put them at ease. I�ve heard more than a few horror stories.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 18:54

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Discussion Quorum posted:

I have not lost a child, thank gently caress, but my understanding is that you never stop grieving. I know I wouldn't.

You don't.

My maternal grandmother died almost thirty years ago and I still grieve about it.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 18:58

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

It won't effect poo poo. It's a side show from the rest of the news, a soap opera of millionaires fighting to protect their egos. People love when rich celebrities air their dirty laundry (or sheets), that's all. Nothing will come of it.

Depending on whether you believe the Rolling Stone, it already has had an effect! In silencing domestic abuse victims! Feel like that has ramifications for 50% of people out there.

The celebrity part is that not even being a Marvel movie actress can save you from how much society hates women.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 19:31

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Actually, she was in the DCU. :goonsay:

# ? Jun 2, 2022 19:35

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

i hate you

# ? Jun 2, 2022 19:40

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

FrozenVent posted:

Actually, she was in the DCU.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 19:44

CRUSTY MINGE: Mar 30, 2011; Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur

FrozenVent posted:

Actually, she was in the DCU.

Lol.

Eej posted:

Depending on whether you believe the Rolling Stone, it already has had an effect! In silencing domestic abuse victims! Feel like that has ramifications for 50% of people out there.

It's Rolling Stone, and they might as well be Roger Stone now in terms of credibility. The problems highlighted by the trial aren't going to particularly improve or degrade because a Rolling Stone writer decreed it. Things will likely continue to get worse for women in DV situations, but the trial itself will be completely forgotten this time next month/year.

These two aren't OJ in the 90s, they're washed out actors in a much larger pool of celebrity than 30 years ago. Their star power has been diluted, just like Johnny's piss is diluted with wine.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 19:51

LtCol J. Krusinski: May 7, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

CainFortea posted:

Every cheerleader that is in my social media circle is a woman. And some of them have been victims of abuse themselves. So I doubt very much that they were chomping at the bit to make it easier for men to get away with abuse.

This has been my experience as well.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 19:58

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Today's massive industrial accident comes from... rolls dice... India!

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1532397109919600648

# ? Jun 2, 2022 20:30

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Old Boot posted:

We're no more a monolith than any other demo, and we're just as prone to speaking out against our own best interests for any number of reasons.

This was my point. The person I was responding to said that everyone cheerleading Depp was doing so specifically to make it harder for victims to seek help and/or press charges.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 20:41

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

Mr. Nice! posted:

You'll be shocked, I'm sure, to learn that Trump appointed this judge to the 6th. He previously was a federal judge appointed by W.

Here's the opinion if you wanna roll your eyes into the back of your head for a bit:

https://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/22a0090p-06.pdf

I love how a plaintiff against a police officer has to basically have sworn notarized testimonies of cops admitting retaliation for it to even be considered as relevant to the case, but the cops were allowed to just sorta kinda infer that maybe he was really trying to impersonate them despite him saying he wasn�t.

There�s a semi recent Supreme Court 1st amendment case where cops at a sports event in Alaska arrested a guy on like an unrelated charge because he was heckling them, said something too the effect of �I bet you wish you cooperated with us now,� and the Supreme Court said that cops shouldn�t have the burden of what they say being misunderstood so who knows what they meant by that therefore case dismissed.

Literally took a case about cops arresting a guy for 1st amendment speech and instead argued that the cops right to mouth off and talk poo poo is the real protected speech

Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jun 2, 2022

# ? Jun 2, 2022 20:57

Arcella: Dec 16, 2013; Shiny and Chrome

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

I love how a plaintiff against a police officer has to basically have sworn notarized testimonies of cops admitting retaliation for it to even be considered as relevant to the case, but the cops were allowed to just sorta kinda infer that maybe he was really trying to impersonate them despite him saying he wasn�t.

There�s a semi recent Supreme Court 1st amendment case where cops at a sports event in Alaska arrested a guy on like an unrelated charge because he was heckling them, said something too the effect of �I bet you wish you cooperated with us now,� and the Supreme Court said that cops shouldn�t have the burden of what they say being misunderstood so who knows what they meant by that therefore case dismissed.

Literally took a case about cops arresting a guy for 1st amendment speech and instead argued that the cops right to mouth off and talk poo poo is the real protected speech

It's like whichever court (Louisiana? Federal?) willfully misinterpreting that guy as maybe perhaps wanting Air Bud, Esq. because he said "I want a lawyer, dog."

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

a bunch of black teenagers on vacation saw him beating his wife, stopped him, he said exactly what you think he said to them, and then they kicked his rear end.

good for those kids, glad they got away too

# ? Jun 2, 2022 22:24

Diarrhea Elemental: Apr 2, 2012; Am I correct in my assumption, you fish-faced enemy of the people?

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

This has been my experience as well.

Same here, and I think completely dismissing it as internalized misogyny or whatever else is at best disingenuous. Nobody here is saying there probably won't be negative repercussions because of this case, but it seems like a lot of the backlash from women (and especially who have previously been victimized) is coming from a place where they regard Heard also as an abuser who is at least in part attempting to sweep her own sins under the rug by co-opting legitimate movements.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 23:47

Zamujasa: Oct 27, 2010; Bread Liar

https://twitter.com/TMJ4Steve/status/1532460346178519040

Family: 5 shot during funeral at Graceland Cemetery in Racine
"Lord you can't even go to a funeral anymore," said a witness

quote:

RACINE, Wis. � A suspect shot and injured five people during a funeral at Graceland Cemetery in Racine Thursday afternoon, family tells TMJ4 News.

Racine police described the shooting as a "critical" incident and urged people to stay away. Police said multiple shots were fired and that there are victims but their conditions are unknown. The scene is still active and being investigated, police said.

TMJ4 News crews could see at least 12 markers for bullet rounds at the scene of the shooting.

The Draeger-Langendorf Funeral Home and Crematory confirms to TMJ4 News that a funeral during that time was for Da'Shontay L. King Sr. The worker at the funeral home said King's family members were hit. All funeral home staff are OK, they said.

Family previously identified Da'Shontay King Sr. as the man who a Racine police officer shot and killed near 12th and Schiller on March 20. Police said then that an officer attempted a traffic stop for a firearms investigation. Police said King got out of the vehicle armed with a firearm. The officer ordered the suspect to stop and comply with commands, but he refused, police said. The officer opened fire. King was pronounced dead at the scene.

# ? Jun 2, 2022 23:57

Wrong Theory: Aug 27, 2005; Satellite from days of old, lead me to your access code

Arm the pallbearers? :shrug:

# ? Jun 3, 2022 00:12

Tiny: Oct 26, 2003; My leg hurts....

I'm honestly worried that poo poo like that is going to become more and more common. As an entire generation of people realize they have no hope of a better future, some sad % is going to kill themselves. Some sad % is going to decide that if they have no future and nothing to live for, they're at least going to take what they consider to be the enemy out with them.

Violence in the streets is going to get worse before it gets better, and cops and politicians are going to be targets.

I Truly Hope that I am wrong about that.

# ? Jun 3, 2022 01:00

Wrong Theory: Aug 27, 2005; Satellite from days of old, lead me to your access code

I will make an actual post to accompany my poo poo post above. And I think Tiny brings up a good point that I read in an article. (no idea if Politico is a good site, I was at work when I read it)

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/27/stopping-mass-shooters-q-a-00035762

It specifically talks about school shootings being a form of suicide.

The article I linked posted:

Peterson: There�s this really consistent pathway. Early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether violence in the home, sexual assault, parental suicides, extreme bullying. Then you see the build toward hopelessness, despair, isolation, self-loathing, oftentimes rejection from peers. That turns into a really identifiable crisis point where they�re acting differently. Sometimes they have previous suicide attempts.

What�s different from traditional suicide is that the self-hate turns against a group. They start asking themselves, �Whose fault is this?� Is it a racial group or women or a religious group, or is it my classmates? The hate turns outward. There�s also this quest for fame and notoriety.

POLITICO: You�ve written about how mass shootings are always acts of violent suicide. Do people realize this is what�s happening in mass shootings?

Peterson: I don�t think most people realize that these are suicides, in addition to homicides. Mass shooters design these to be their final acts. When you realize this, it completely flips the idea that someone with a gun on the scene is going to deter this. If anything, that�s an incentive for these individuals. They are going in to be killed.

It�s hard to focus on the suicide because these are horrific homicides. But it�s a critical piece because we know so much from the suicide prevention world that can translate here.

I do think gun control is a part of the conversation but ultimately something is driving people to do this poo poo and I find it unacceptable that society just throws their arms up in the air and is like "what can you do?" There is plenty that can be done! And the article brings up some ideas, notably having psychologists in schools. There is also training that can teach what to look for in troubled individuals. And I know this is adding more work to the basically minimum wage teaching jobs. There are things that can be done the question is will they.

A side story, I was in a bad spot in life. Homeless, depressed, and on the verge of suicide. Oddly enough I had a VA appointment for like bloodwork for my primary care or something and I remember going just to go through the motions. Well someone who worked there saw me and could tell I was off, she took me into a side room and asked if I was ok and I just fell apart. Ended up seeing a psychologist right then and there and continued to see him for about 7 months. Got a lot of work in, don't know if I would be there today without that intervention. Not saying I was gonna shoot the place up or anything but I was definitely suicidal. That was like two years after I got out, almost a decade ago now.

# ? Jun 3, 2022 01:48

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Sounds like there should be a waiting period for gun purchases. Wonder what happened to those.

# ? Jun 3, 2022 01:57

Zamujasa: Oct 27, 2010; Bread Liar

i had a laugh at some talking head who pointed out that the weapon the texas shooter bought cost several thousands of dollars on a wendys' employee's wage and it's like, dude, these people aren't exactly planning on paying back that credit line

# ? Jun 3, 2022 02:01

Pigsfeet on Rye: Oct 22, 2008; I'm meat on the hoof

Wrong Theory posted:

Arm the pallbearers?

Arm the corpse too.

# ? Jun 3, 2022 02:03

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Zamujasa posted:

i had a laugh at some talking head who pointed out that the weapon the texas shooter bought cost several thousands of dollars on a wendys' employee's wage and it's like, dude, these people aren't exactly planning on paying back that credit line

Jesus Christ

# ? Jun 3, 2022 02:04

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Dude gets killed by a cop and someone thinks it�s a good time to get revenge on someone at the funeral? What the gently caress?

# ? Jun 3, 2022 02:10

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 9, 2024 06:37

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Wrong Theory posted:

I do think gun control is a part of the conversation but ultimately something is driving people to do this poo poo and I find it unacceptable that society just throws their arms up in the air and is like "what can you do?" There is plenty that can be done! And the article brings up some ideas, notably having psychologists in schools. There is also training that can teach what to look for in troubled individuals. And I know this is adding more work to the basically minimum wage teaching jobs. There are things that can be done the question is will they.

There's definitely a willful neglect of those with mental health issues in our society. That needs to be addressed, but the lowest hanging fruit for stemming the rising tide of mass murders is common sense firearms regulation that limits and delays access to potential perpetrators (hopefully enough that their bloodlust is behind them) and reduces the ease of mass murder offered by semiautomatic rifles with high-capacity magazines.

The GOP will pay cynical lip service to the mental health angle, but we're no more likely to get their votes on meaningful mental health reform than we are gun control. That doesn't preclude each of us pushing for a society in which mental health is taken seriously, of course. If folks see warning signs of violence in someone they know, whether directed at themselves or others, please talk with them and/or find someone who can!

# ? Jun 3, 2022 02:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > June 2022 Current Events: Everything Sucks

«‹›50 »