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vyelkin posted:The people here probably know this already but I'd like to remind everybody itt that the cruelty is the point. If you were a perfectly rational technocrat who looked around the world at the various proposed solutions to homelessness and did the neoliberal cost-benefit analyses on all of them to find the cheapest (and therefore most efficient) policy response, you would find that the cheapest and most effective way to eliminate homelessness is to give people homes. Wikipedia shockingly has a very good summary of how one of the reddest states in the United States managed this: Mormons... good?
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Nov 1, 2022 04:00
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HashtagGirlboss posted:Try bringing this up to west coast libs and they’ll generally deflect it by going “oh that’s because they’re all Mormons and they have a cultural homogeneity that means they can do this but it won’t work in our delightfully more diverse city…” same for arguments for a nordic style welfare state. they'll deflect w/ the same extremely racist diversity argument. for some reason it's hard for them to imagine any blond Scandinavian welfare queens hmmmm
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Nov 1, 2022 04:05
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I'd much rather just be asked for money than hear somebody talk about nord vpn, for example
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Nov 1, 2022 20:23
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BrotherJayne posted:Naw, I generally sympathize with them, making the interactions suckier Brother man they're just human being. If you don't have cash or anything just shrug your shoulders and move on. This reminds of the guy in the Seattle thread would thought that homeless people would flock to him like birds if he gave one of them some food.
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Nov 1, 2022 20:51
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I never give money to homeless people because I never have money on me and then someone asks for money but I have none to give so I resolve to carry some money with me just in case but then I forget and don’t so the cycle repeats
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Nov 1, 2022 21:10
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christmas boots posted:I never give money to homeless people because I never have money on me and then someone asks for money but I have none to give so I resolve to carry some money with me just in case but then I forget and don’t so the cycle repeats I get hit up for cigarettes far more often than for cash which idk what that says about me Anyway, new solution to homelessness. It’s pickleball! https://www.portlandmercury.com/new...ckleball-courts quote:Usually, the goal of a homeless camp sweep is to remove the visuals of unsheltered homelessness from public spaces. This time, the city is clearing the camp with a bigger plan in mind: Turn the the street into an extension of Laurelhurst Park. Just loving hell. The people around that camp are exceptionally wealthy. It is very much an old money kind of neighborhood. The same neighborhood who sued the city over not clearing camps as an ADA violation So much human misery so that rich fucks have a few more things to do in their neighborhood park
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Nov 1, 2022 22:09
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iCe-CuBe. posted:Mormons... good? If strasserism every happens in america it'll be the mormons doing it. They've got a social welfare system that is needed due to forcing people to marry in their early 20s and have multiple kids before they can even stop and ask if they want kids. Its impossible to support said kids on your own so the church doles out stuff, entirely dependent on your continued 'good standing' with the bishops. I will never forget the moment, when my mormon coworker, who was a decade younger than me and looked a decade older, just walked up to me, showed me a phone picture of an infant and said "That's my youngest. I don't really love him. He's always got this weird fungus" He had just moved into town and his wife and 6 kids were by themselves in a motel room all day. He was not even 30 years old. Now, as I personally dangle juuust above homelessness and sleeping in my car, it loving sucks, but it still sucks less than that job, and while I don't like where I've ended up, I still periodically think of that dude and thank god I am not him. Ronwayne has issued a correction as of 23:28 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 23:26
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Ronwayne posted:mormon bullshit one side of my wife’s family is hardcore mormon and it’s super lovely watching that side of the family’s kids hit their mid 30s and remaining entirely dependent living at home with their parents cause they have six kids and could only get a job at their family’s small business
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Nov 2, 2022 11:42
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Ronwayne posted:If strasserism every happens in america it'll be the mormons doing it. They've got a social welfare system that is needed due to forcing people to marry in their early 20s and have multiple kids before they can even stop and ask if they want kids. Its impossible to support said kids on your own so the church doles out stuff, entirely dependent on your continued 'good standing' with the bishops. Isn't that the ideal for people of wealth, that everyone at the bottom is selling their labor as cheap as possible and the only incentives given to them is just pump out more kids/workers?
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Nov 2, 2022 12:00
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Yeah, it just depends on whether you consider the worst possible fate dying in the street or of a stress heart attack at 50 after a miserable, but clothed, fed, and housed life. In another hosed up turn, my health has improved now that I'm semihomeless, its actually easier to find and eat non horrible food and even if I do at least I can walk around and burn it off instead of sitting down for 9+ hours and feeling myself physically rotting. Also, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of desperate and cruel people out there but joe q unmedicated schitzo is somehow less awful company than "comfortable" white collar workers who are completely loving miserable and just stumbling through life like a zombie and taking out their frustration on underlings and their family and anyone who gets too close. At least the unmedicated guy is (mostly) not responsible for the awful things he says. Tier 2-3 middle managers are like the cold-fusion reactors of efficient banal evil energy, and the first time I heard someone casually mention the police should "disappear" homeless people, it was from one of them. Ronwayne has issued a correction as of 17:54 on Nov 2, 2022 |
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Nov 2, 2022 17:35
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You seem like you've got your head screwed on right, Ronwayne. Good luck with your housing crisis.BrotherJayne posted:about 60% this if I'm going to be honest. What's the other 40%? the white hand posted:I'd much rather just be asked for money than hear somebody talk about nord vpn, for example New pan handling idea, sponsor homeless people to advertise your products.
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Nov 3, 2022 19:34
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Weka posted:New pan handling idea, sponsor homeless people to advertise your competitor’s products.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:30
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Over the last three years I have been activiley working with and attempting to organize with unhoused and formerly unhoused people in LA. Anyone who is complaining about having to deal with panhandlers should be ashamed of themselves for that response to radical poverty. Would you rather have people go without food and medications? We do a mutual aid table every Sunday with an encampment we have been working with for 2 years. The city has made their encampment a 41.18 zone, which makes it illegal to sit, lay, or have belongings in the zone. They have everything they can't move thrown away by the city 4 or 5 times a month. People lose all kinds of things in these sweeps, from their tents, medications, governement documents manditory for recieving government services, and food. On top of this people treat them like trash, people literally cheer and honk their horns in support of the sanitation workers who are destroying what little sense of home the can forge. If our soceity was taking care of people they wouldn't have to panhadle and if our society didn't treat poor people like subhuman poo poo they would likely be less angry and pissed off at people for just looking the other way and not helping them when they are suffering. Any housed person who thinks they are the real victim of housing crisis is an rear end in a top hat imo.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:00
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Over the last three years I have been activiley working with and attempting to organize with unhoused and formerly unhoused people in LA. Anyone who is complaining about having to deal with panhandlers should be ashamed of themselves for that response to radical poverty. Would you rather have people go without food and medications? We do a mutual aid table every Sunday with an encampment we have been working with for 2 years. The city has made their encampment a 41.18 zone, which makes it illegal to sit, lay, or have belongings in the zone. They have everything they can't move thrown away by the city 4 or 5 times a month. People lose all kinds of things in these sweeps, from their tents, medications, governement documents manditory for recieving government services, and food. On top of this people treat them like trash, people literally cheer and honk their horns in support of the sanitation workers who are destroying what little sense of home the can forge. If our soceity was taking care of people they wouldn't have to panhadle and if our society didn't treat poor people like subhuman poo poo they would likely be less angry and pissed off at people for just looking the other way and not helping them when they are suffering. Any housed person who thinks they are the real victim of housing crisis is an rear end in a top hat imo. This is awful and heartbreaking. I'm glad to hear you're offering what help you can, but I know against huge problems like this it often feels like the smallest drop in the world's largest bucket.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:11
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The greatest crime a homeless person can commit is to be seen.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:34
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bedpan posted:The greatest crime a homeless person can commit is to be seen. Seen taking a poo poo on the doorstep of a bank.
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Nov 3, 2022 22:50
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Over the last three years I have been activiley working with and attempting to organize with unhoused and formerly unhoused people in LA. Anyone who is complaining about having to deal with panhandlers should be ashamed of themselves for that response to radical poverty. Would you rather have people go without food and medications? We do a mutual aid table every Sunday with an encampment we have been working with for 2 years. The city has made their encampment a 41.18 zone, which makes it illegal to sit, lay, or have belongings in the zone. They have everything they can't move thrown away by the city 4 or 5 times a month. People lose all kinds of things in these sweeps, from their tents, medications, governement documents manditory for recieving government services, and food. On top of this people treat them like trash, people literally cheer and honk their horns in support of the sanitation workers who are destroying what little sense of home the can forge. If our soceity was taking care of people they wouldn't have to panhadle and if our society didn't treat poor people like subhuman poo poo they would likely be less angry and pissed off at people for just looking the other way and not helping them when they are suffering. Any housed person who thinks they are the real victim of housing crisis is an rear end in a top hat imo. is there ever any sort of violent reaction to this from the community?
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Nov 3, 2022 22:53
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JesusIsTehCool posted:On top of this people treat them like trash, people literally cheer and honk their horns in support of the sanitation workers who are destroying what little sense of home the can forge. I wish every one of those callous fucks who honk and cheer a very stolen catalytic converter and comically unmanageable diarrhea.
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Nov 3, 2022 23:09
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https://twitter.com/sfchronicle/status/1588292961967611904?s=20&t=msvTMbzTu_9ub9RMDIjxXw
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Nov 3, 2022 23:13
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newsome has ordered all local homelessness plans to halt in california. dont live there but maybe hes got some dumb statewide plan of his own or just wants to make everyone kiss his rear end before he lets them ban camping idk
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Nov 3, 2022 23:18
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vyelkin posted:This is awful and heartbreaking. I'm glad to hear you're offering what help you can, but I know against huge problems like this it often feels like the smallest drop in the world's largest bucket. This is my 5th encampment I have worked with, the other 4 were eventually all destryoed by the state through sweeps. It is depressing as hell and does often feel like you aren't making any gains. But you do make gains and are able to make radical wins for individual people and communities. the ultimate goal of out work is to build solidarity between unhoused encampments, organize shelters and interium housing residents, and build a people power base large enough to make direct actions effective. Over the last three years I have seen the number of unhoused and formerly unhoused people in the organiing space grow, but it still is a pretty small movement in general, no where near where we need to be to effect change. This often feels like a dream more than a realistic goal, but reform through the city is more of a pipedream. There are some things that we do though that are super empowering and makes me feel like the work we are doing is signficant. Our harm reduction efforts reverese several ODs every week, meaning that some folks are alive because we are able to get narcan into the community. This isn't going to fix the housing crisis but it also doesn't feel like a drop in the bucket, considering many of these folks become your friends as you see them weekly. bongmaster posted:is there ever any sort of violent reaction to this from the community? Not sure if you are asking if the unhoused community ever gets violent or if you are asking if the housed community ever gets violent. I have never witnessed or even heard about an unhoused person being violent towards anyone at a sweep. This is likely because there are almost always armed police at every sweep. I have seen arrests of unhoused people who refuse to get out of the way of sanitation workers trying to throw away their stuff. I have heard countless stories of unhoused people being targeted be the housed community members and have witnessed some myself. I have heard stories of people setting tents on fire, someone beating an unhoused man with his own crutches, people being woken up by being kicked in the head, and people being shot at in drive bys. I have witnessed two different instances of torture, people blairing music on repeat (one was the barney theme song the other was some heavymetal track) next to encampments. The streets are an exteremly violent place though, before I started this work I had never known anyone who was murdered, In the last three years there have been atleast 3 people I know who were murdered, and more who know one knows what happened to them. Everyone knows that police and detectives aren't going to give a single gently caress about unhoused people being targeted, so unless you have some other group looking out for you you're free game.
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Nov 3, 2022 23:37
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I've told this story once before on the forums but I'll tell it once more: There used to be a homeless guy named Mark with a port-wine stain birthmark who would sell newspapers in the area around my apartment. I saw him often and, if I had some folding money in my pocket, would buy a paper or just give him a few bills. One day, I see him sitting on the curb in front of a grocery store and he is sobbing. I walk up and ask him what is wrong. Mark tells me that, the previous evening, he was attacked by an enraged security guard who screamed about "hosed up homeless" while he pummeled Mark, who eventually passed out because of the beating. When he woke up, his backpack (which contained all his possessions including prescription medicine) and his shoes had been stolen. Not knowing what to do, I gave him the $40 that was in my wallet at that time (two twenties). There was a coffee stand not far away and I offered to get him something. When I returned with his drink, a mocha, he, still crying, asked me something I won't forget: "why do people steal from the homeless?" I didn't have an answer. I've never seen him again.
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Nov 4, 2022 03:51
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fits my needs posted:https://twitter.com/sfchronicle/status/1588292961967611904?s=20&t=msvTMbzTu_9ub9RMDIjxXw Called it: MLSM posted:So the dems are gonna blame the homeless when they lose the midterms right
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Nov 4, 2022 04:14
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MLSM posted:So the dems are gonna blame the homeless when they lose the midterms right already are. from an article saying the democrats need to be more pro-cop: quote:The 2022 midterms will be remembered as a toxic campaign, but an effective one in labeling Democrats as “pro-crime.” When voters in our survey were asked what they feared the most if Democrats win full control of the government, 56 percent rushed to choose “crime and homelessness out of control in cities and police coming under attack,” followed by 43 percent who chose “the southern border being open to immigrants.” Those two outpointed voters’ worries about Congress banning abortion nationally and women losing “equal rights.”
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Nov 4, 2022 05:09
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JesusIsTehCool posted:This is my 5th encampment I have worked with, the other 4 were eventually all destryoed by the state through sweeps. It is depressing as hell and does often feel like you aren't making any gains. But you do make gains and are able to make radical wins for individual people and communities. the ultimate goal of out work is to build solidarity between unhoused encampments, organize shelters and interium housing residents, and build a people power base large enough to make direct actions effective. Over the last three years I have seen the number of unhoused and formerly unhoused people in the organiing space grow, but it still is a pretty small movement in general, no where near where we need to be to effect change. This often feels like a dream more than a realistic goal, but reform through the city is more of a pipedream. you do good work, respekto. what kinds of inter-communal links are you trying to build, if i may ask? JesusIsTehCool posted:Not sure if you are asking if the unhoused community ever gets violent or if you are asking if the housed community ever gets violent. I have never witnessed or even heard about an unhoused person being violent towards anyone at a sweep. This is likely because there are almost always armed police at every sweep. I have seen arrests of unhoused people who refuse to get out of the way of sanitation workers trying to throw away their stuff. I'm asking if anyone has tried organizing community defense among the homeless against these murderous bastards, but i suppose that's a bit impossible what with the disparity of force. This might sound a bit horrible, but from my experience on street violence in a completely different context (namely finland), communal response to acts of terrorism is actually necessary to stop nazis beating up your friends
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Nov 4, 2022 10:35
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We did it folks! https://twitter.com/emilyburrisTV/status/1588501059944808449?cxt=HHwWgoC8tYfTvossAAAA Fortunately we amended the proposal and instead of three 500 person internment camps were going to try to make six 250 person internment camps Edit: “Fix homelessness!” “How? By housing people?” “No? What? How would that help” https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2022/11/03/46173607/city-council-approves-unfunded-plan-to-criminalize-unsheltered-homelessness quote:Commissioners rejected an amendment posed by Hardesty that requested the city attorney’s office to research whether the city could use eminent domain—a tool that the government can use to take private property and convert it to public use—to house Portlanders in vacant buildings. HashtagGirlboss has issued a correction as of 17:19 on Nov 4, 2022 |
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Nov 4, 2022 17:11
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bongmaster posted:you do good work, respekto. what kinds of inter-communal links are you trying to build, if i may ask? Orginally the goal was to orgnize whole encampments to stand united against sweeps, but this has proved difficult. In any given encampment there is only a few people who are interested in fighting back, so we have shifted more towards trying to organized these folks that want to resist into a group. I would like to see a group capable of claiming and holding vacant buildings around the county, but thats just me. The sad realty though is that most unhoused and recently unhoused people are so focused on survival organizing beyond that is very difficult. A lot of time and effort is given to just getting people to the place where they can even really start considering fighting back. The team in the valley of LA was blocking sweeps for several months. In general to block a sweep you need more people present than the city has, which is normally about a dozen. You also need some residents of the encampment onboard. You need to be willing to get arrested. The sweeps also happen really early in the morning on weekdays, last for hours, and only get 48 hours notice ahead of time, so if you have a 9-5 it is tricky to be there to help. And even if you block once the city will come back day after day until the encampment is gone so you need to be able to mount a defence regualrly, most teams don't have the people power to do it. Eventually the cops will come in numbers. I think we had over 200 people at Echo Park Lake when they cleared that camp, they brought in mass police, fenced off the whole park, and arrested anyone they could. It is sad but the state just has more resources and has too many cops for us to hold off.
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Nov 4, 2022 17:20
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Orginally the goal was to orgnize whole encampments to stand united against sweeps, but this has proved difficult. In any given encampment there is only a few people who are interested in fighting back, so we have shifted more towards trying to organized these folks that want to resist into a group. I would like to see a group capable of claiming and holding vacant buildings around the county, but thats just me. The sad realty though is that most unhoused and recently unhoused people are so focused on survival organizing beyond that is very difficult. A lot of time and effort is given to just getting people to the place where they can even really start considering fighting back. This is a huge part of it. The other part is that they often have extensive support from local property owners to get as brutal as they care too  But yeah echoing last poster you’re doing good work and I hope you can get something sustained going
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Nov 4, 2022 17:26
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Orginally the goal was to orgnize whole encampments to stand united against sweeps, but this has proved difficult. In any given encampment there is only a few people who are interested in fighting back, so we have shifted more towards trying to organized these folks that want to resist into a group. I would like to see a group capable of claiming and holding vacant buildings around the county, but thats just me. The sad realty though is that most unhoused and recently unhoused people are so focused on survival organizing beyond that is very difficult. A lot of time and effort is given to just getting people to the place where they can even really start considering fighting back. well that... i guess i'll rip a base and give it a thinkover
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Nov 4, 2022 17:28
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please try to avoid committing suicide by firing three bullets to the back of your own head. nota very helpful revelation
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Nov 4, 2022 17:30
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https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/03/katie-quackenbush-sentenced-nashville-shooting-homeless-man-2017/9743299002/ Some lady who shot at a homeless guy got off in Tennessee. 
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Nov 4, 2022 20:06
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AnimeIsTrash posted:https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2022/11/03/katie-quackenbush-sentenced-nashville-shooting-homeless-man-2017/9743299002/ Convicted and two years probation is actually a really harsh sentence for shooting a homeless person in my experience. Probably because the victim survived. Usually the shooter gets acquitted if they even bother bringing charges
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Nov 4, 2022 20:31
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Thousands of NYC Apartments for the Homeless Lie Vacant https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/04/nyregion/nearly-2600-apartments-for-mentally-ill-and-homeless-people-sit-vacant.html
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Nov 5, 2022 02:30
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Atrocious Joe posted:already are. from an article saying the democrats need to be more pro-cop: How sad is it that blue states will probably be putting homeless people en masse on trains to the
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Nov 5, 2022 09:05
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MLSM posted:How sad is it that blue states will probably be putting homeless people en masse on trains to the tbf Tennesse has been the first state to make being homeless a felony... so they've already lost that race
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Nov 5, 2022 09:11
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Xaris posted:tbf Tennesse has been the first state to make being homeless a felony... so they've already lost that race It’s literally going to be this with homeless people now too isn’t it : https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/796229362643152896?s=20&t=_o97Sqm2kgTWXQpnQUIYFw
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Nov 5, 2022 09:22
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Lol nicequote:At a council work session Thursday, he put a $27 million price tag on the start-up costs of the sweeping proposal, which pledges to create up to six camps with a capacity for 250 individuals, alongside increasing homeless services and affordable housing options. Here’s how that funding package breaks down: I bet that you could get a lot of people indoors with the money he wants to spend on internment camps
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Nov 12, 2022 19:52
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https://twitter.com/janosmarton/status/1590353476781240322?s=20&t=ocJRebb6_GQOT28ePL-gXA https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1590213966999216128?s=20&t=ocJRebb6_GQOT28ePL-gXA Democrats are going to double down on the crime panic even though it hurts them politically
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Nov 12, 2022 20:30
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/janosmarton/status/1590353476781240322?s=20&t=ocJRebb6_GQOT28ePL-gXA It is remarkable. At least locally the business alliance and old money power brokers and commercial real estate interests and local media are fundamentally sabotaging the recovery of downtown by just bleating nonstop about how awful it is. You’d think this would be against their short term interest but I think is a long game they’re playing
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Nov 12, 2022 20:42
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https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1591506506536882177 Futurama was a documentary.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:15
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