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LOL! just the kind of stuff that u’d only find in the cat forum (Or Should I say “Catte”  !!!!)
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Feb 14, 2018 03:39
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god bless trumpy bear posted:cognitive disabilities radium must have done something right because nothing else explains how some folks have been able to post consistently so far thanks radium
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Feb 14, 2018 04:03
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real post: gifs should only loop what, 3 times, wrt cognitive and focus based user interface elements?
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Feb 14, 2018 04:04
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i always thought aria tags were a huge hosed up mess to cover for the fact that idiot web designers realized that they could make <div> act like every other element instead of just using the element they wanted accessibility wouldnt be so bad if every idiot didn't think they had to reinvent <select>, <input>, and <a> of all things
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Feb 14, 2018 09:25
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Good contrast keeps your thing useable even in bright sunlight and/or on a crappy screen, regardless of the state of the user's eyes.
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Feb 14, 2018 11:06
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rename thread to “thread in which obstipator gets repeatedly owned” tia
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Feb 14, 2018 16:32
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😭 boo hoo hoo blub blub 😭 everyone told me i was wrong 😢  im going to the corner to crywhat hurts the most is everyone kept owning me over and over, yet dont respect me enough to say why im wrong. it hurts me deep in my cold dead heart 🖤
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Feb 14, 2018 16:45
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god bless trumpy bear posted:I work in academia and I know of many universities that were hit by dept of education office of civil rights lawsuits for web accessibility failures. that's the kind of thing that university lawyers really hate and will make you drop everything to fix Zamujasa posted:accessibility wouldnt be so bad if every idiot didn't think they had to reinvent <select>, <input>, and <a> of all things
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Feb 14, 2018 17:09
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Zamujasa posted:i always thought aria tags were a huge hosed up mess to cover for the fact that idiot web designers realized that they could make <div> act like every other element instead of just using the element they wanted thats the role attribute and it is a way to cover hot garbage if the dev cant figure out how to use normal tags rarely, its a way to get around some limited markup structure like lists when designing interactions so itll read clearly without having to use invalid html or elaborate css or partially support some browsers Silver Alicorn posted:rename thread to “thread in which obstipator gets repeatedly owned” tia 'im not owned im not owned!' obstipator says as he slowly shrinks and transforms into embedded text on a picture of a corn cob
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Feb 14, 2018 18:14
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Ideally companies would have a team dedicated to accessibility. But none do because: -companies that make money know not to waste their time on it -companies that dont make money have an accessibility team bc they dont understand how to properly sell a product. and then accessibility team is first on the chopping block for layoffs bc their existence lowers profits
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Feb 14, 2018 18:40
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Zamujasa posted:i always thought aria tags were a huge hosed up mess to cover for the fact that idiot web designers realized that they could make <div> act like every other element instead of just using the element they wanted pretty much! the first question to ask for accessibility is always “does the markup make sense?” browsers are usually pretty good at building accessibility trees if you hand them well designed markup, so you can alleviate most accessibility issues with your site just by making sure the markup is compliant however, aria attributes usually don’t help much when it comes to badly formed markup. those are usually to provide extra information to build the trees (extra information for links, describing widgets that don’t have a native counterpart like dialogs, flyout menus, etc). i can tell you from personal experience that trying to use roles to cover for bad markup is just a waste of time
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Feb 14, 2018 18:56
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My Linux Rig posted:pretty much! the first question to ask for accessibility is always “does the markup make sense?” browsers are usually pretty good at building accessibility trees if you hand them well designed markup, so you can alleviate most accessibility issues with your site just by making sure the markup is compliant agreed; theres no point in putting extra effort into accessibility
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Feb 14, 2018 18:59
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obstipator posted:agreed; theres no point in putting extra effort into accessibility i hope you go blind
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Feb 14, 2018 19:01
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Roosevelt posted:i hope you go blind just keep with the posting.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:02
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President Beep posted:just keep with the posting. 
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Feb 14, 2018 19:07
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i am not sure what is even the point driven at here, obviously there is no money to be made in making your product being accessible, and i don't think anyone is really interesting in claiming that. the typical software developer having embraced all they do being without any value except to make them money is also not really surprising the thread is likely a lot better off being about; what can technology in fact do for people with various handicaps *without* going into how trying to actually do them would be throwing away our destiny as randian supermen in a very handicap-free gulch somewhere
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Feb 14, 2018 19:10
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i am not sure what is even the point driven at here, obviously there is no money to be made in making your product being accessible, and i don't think anyone is really interesting in claiming that. the typical software developer having embraced all they do being without any value except to make them money is also not really surprising Source you're quotes.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:11
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I HAVE GOUT posted:Ideally companies would have a team dedicated to accessibility. But none do because: I recently worked at a fortune 500 company with an enterprise level accessibility team as well as individual members in each user experience group along with mandatory training for everyone who works on user facing material of course everything else about the company is kinda cartoonishly evil but they had that
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Feb 14, 2018 19:17
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in the irl world, i recently oversaw the construction of a new autozone store in our jurisdiction. they actually have an accessibility team that they send out to each of their sites, just to make sure they're not doing anything that would violate ada requirements for a new build. this makes me think they've had the DOJ come after them sometime in the past, and they don't want a repeat. regardless, i'm glad they did it, because making contractors, architects, and engineers change/fix such things can be a real pain in the rear end.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:21
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President Beep posted:in the irl world, i recently oversaw the construction of a new autozone store in our jurisdiction. they actually have an accessibility team that they send out to each of their sites, just to make sure they're not doing anything that would violate ada requirements for a new build. this makes me think they've had the DOJ come after them sometime in the past, and they don't want a repeat. Wish "Not reading your posts" would be classified as an essential job function.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:23
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Schadenboner posted:Wish "Not reading your posts" would be classified as an essential job function. i'll email ur boss for you. no worries.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:25
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President Beep posted:regardless, i'm glad they did it, because making contractors, architects, and engineers change/fix such things can be a real pain in the rear end. a friend of mine is a landscape architect and the bulk of his job is balancing ada and insurance requirements [they do a lot of public parks and schools] the actual design and what the client wants are way down the list
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Feb 14, 2018 19:30
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qirex posted:a friend of mine is a landscape architect and the bulk of his job is balancing ada and insurance requirements [they do a lot of public parks and schools] the actual design and what the client wants are way down the list clients are dumb and rarely know what they actually want/have unrealistic expectations.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:33
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:the thread is likely a lot better off being about; what can technology in fact do for people with various handicaps *without* going into how trying to actually do them would be throwing away our destiny as randian supermen in a very handicap-free gulch somewhere not to mention that, as it’s been pointed out, most of the ui changes required to make a site accessible would just improve the ui in general
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Feb 14, 2018 19:35
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I have mild-to-moderate surprise that Sagebrush hasn't weighed in on this thread yet. He usually has interesting things to say about design poo poo.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:41
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Schadenboner posted:I have mild-to-moderate surprise that Sagebrush hasn't weighed in on this thread yet. He usually has interesting things to say about design poo poo. it's because he's blind.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:41
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President Beep posted:it's because he's blind. I tried to warn him about the dangers of catte-having.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:42
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it’s not about making money, it’s about not getting sued. Section 508 ain’t nothing to gently caress with.
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Feb 14, 2018 20:00
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I HAVE GOUT posted:Ideally companies would have a team dedicated to accessibility. But none do because: Unless they sell services to governments or anyone that takes government money with strings attached, in which case yes they do care about accessibility and also make money qirex posted:I recently worked at a fortune 500 company with an enterprise level accessibility team as well as individual members in each user experience group along with mandatory training for everyone who works on user facing material Same, though the training isn't mandatory (sadly) The arguments seem to be "well MY company doesn't care about accessibility because I don't care about accessibility and told them it's too hard or no one asked, therefore The Free Market Has Decided that it is Unprofitable and to be Rejected!
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Feb 14, 2018 20:02
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from my experience doing accessible design + testing probably added 10ish% to the design and build process [this was mostly spin up costs on training the team and validation] and post-facto remediation probably cost 30% on top of the original project budget and completely stopped forward product improvements for several months
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Feb 14, 2018 20:04
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Volmarias posted:Unless they sell services to governments or anyone that takes government money with strings attached, in which case yes they do care about accessibility and also make money guess capitalism isn’t the solution to everything
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Feb 14, 2018 20:08
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JumpinJackFlash posted:Section 508 ain’t nothing to gently caress with.
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Feb 14, 2018 20:08
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has anyone ever implemented a generally well-behaved site that uses aria tags to deceive/scam/ripoff the disabled? seems like an untapped market for scammers
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Feb 14, 2018 20:32
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accessibility is great, hth
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Feb 14, 2018 22:17
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As a web dev for a very small American marketing company, I can say I do ADA stuff for Canadian websites where the need arises. They require all websites to be offered in english and french as well as ADA compliant. It's brutal stupid stuff that only makes sense to programmers and I say that as a person that tries my best to make every form a form with inputs and selects with an input to submit the whole deal; nothing crazy. Seems simple, but clients, as always, gently caress it all up with Web 2.0 bullshit. I really dread these jobs. It's not like you just slap aria labels on everything and call it a day. You have to think out the interactions of each element (if you care at all about this) and how and when they are displayed. When a client decides that their precious marketing web form has to pop-up or lightbox or a loving VIDEO HAS TO PLAY BEFORE THE NEXT INTERACTION CAN START, this immediately sucks. And it's all for these throw away marketing sites, nothing permanent. There is no way to automate this process. And clients DO NOT CARE and sales DOES NOT CARE. If you are a try hard like I try to be you go over each interaction and even loving set up a tabindex if you have to; but it's a brutal difficult process that changes with every website I do and sometimes with every client request or even creative art change. And the clients are not on your side. They will attack you over providing ADA materials to complete the site as this is such a new process that clients just....don't include that creative in the material they supply. Even when that material is requested, they have NO IDEA what to put in there to make things accessible. What am I supposed to do? Teach every 23 year old marketing genus that paid my company the ADA laws of their own country? Clients don't care how this is done, they don't want to think about it. They will use third party companies like mine to do their fly by night marketing websites. And if somehow that website is not up to code, well it's not Procter and Gamble that hosed up, my company gets sued. Which, to be fair, is why they pay us in the first place. But hey, it's better than all my previous jobs combined and pays me six figures. I sit in a chair instead of being a longshoreman or baker any more. I will help wherever I can, this job is a gift to me. I just wish I was better at it.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:42
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ImmovableSquid posted:As a web dev for a very small American marketing company, I can say I do ADA stuff for Canadian websites where the need arises. They require all websites to be offered in english and french as well as ADA compliant. It's brutal stupid stuff that only makes sense to programmers and I say that as a person that tries my best to make every form a form with inputs and selects with an input to submit the whole deal; nothing crazy. TL;DR
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Feb 14, 2018 22:44
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Schadenboner posted:TL;DR its not as long as it looks, the second half is in french
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Feb 14, 2018 22:46
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JawnV6 posted:its not as long as it looks, the second half is in french usually the first half would need to be in French, and bigger as well!
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Feb 14, 2018 22:59
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we once had a pitch meeting with an agency to help with designing our framework and when we asked about accessibility in their working practice they just sort of stopped and stared for 30 seconds even the agency we did hire was producing wireframes with like light grey on white indicators and stuff and I think the in-house framework team redid every bit of it clients are the worst and agencies are the worst and that's why the last 15 years of my career have been in-house
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Feb 14, 2018 23:08
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MononcQc posted:usually the first half would need to be in French, and bigger as well! Of course! My mistake! Sorry, I was working on the SQL backend, did the client also insist that we replace every instance of the copyright symbol with a special image of a copyright symbol because they don't have a font they like? And sales said we would do it for no charge because they are already pissed that they had to do the "extra work" of making ADA materials available to us? Good, good. This is the correct order of things.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:10
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