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I really don't want to see a lot of the Awakening mechanics returning. The game was good, yeah, but it didn't really feel like a Fire Emblem game. Mostly because of pair-up, actually. That and second seals make it an entirely different game.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:50
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Fire Emblem without the concept of resource scarcity is kinda weird, yeah. I mean I'm not even a hardcore guy or anything I've only finished 8 and dabbled in 7, but Awakening feels weird. Fun, but weird.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:52
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I do think it'd be nice to go back to the smaller numbers and less skills. Or at least go back to skills being tied to classes. But mostly I just want more map variety, Awakening had like two win conditions and really unispired map design.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:54
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The Shortest Path posted:I really don't want to see a lot of the Awakening mechanics returning. The game was good, yeah, but it didn't really feel like a Fire Emblem game. Mostly because of pair-up, actually. That and second seals make it an entirely different game. Pretty much. I'm glad a lot of people liked the game and all, but there are a lot of things in it that I don't want to see become trends.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:58
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Having been in the last 3 games I expect reclassing is here to stay. I do hope S-rank supports return in future because while I have nothing against standard support bonuses, it's nice to have something extra tangible from how you've decided to team up the characters. Perhaps they could give each character a skill from the other that they couldn't normally get?
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Nov 11, 2014 07:19
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I'd like to see class changing come back, since I feel like it offers a way to breathe new life into a character. Don't feel like you need yet ANOTHER cavalier? Make Lowen* something else that helps round out your roster a bit better. Especially with the way Awakening did it, where each character has three class lines they can access rather than Shadow Dragon's M1/M2/F class sets. And while I'm not too fond of the abundance of extra equipment available in Awakening, I feel like it's part and parcel to the world map system; you can't really have the latter without the former, since otherwise your resources are too limited to risk wasting on bonus maps and extra encounters. *I say Lowen, but if they got rid of the tutorial prologue he would end up being your first cavalier, in which case pretend I said Kent.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:21
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With the way Awakening handled reclassing and skills there were still units that were objectively worse than every other unit available. In fact, there wasn't much reason to use some classes at all. It disincentives variety and in the end it's no different than not using Dorcas or whoever else because they're not as good as the competition. It's not that important in Awakening because of how easy the game is in general and how simple the maps are, but it can become a serious problem in the future if they don't fix it. I kinda think the way FE8 handled it, where you had split promotion paths, was probably better than the way the series has handled reclassing so far.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:29
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I prefer the FE11/12 way of reclassing, since even though you can do it as many times as you want, you're still limited by levels. The idea of gaining skills by levelup is alright, but the game was really not balanced at all around you doing that more than once. Also, they did a fairly good job at making skills amount to more than just "Enemy dies because of slightly different calculation", but that's still what every second tier's level 5 skill ended up being.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:30
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I was about to say I don't like the avatar, but it's really easy to just pretend it isn't a self-insert. I mean what decisions do you even make besides picking a waifu
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Nov 11, 2014 07:31
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Looper posted:I was about to say I don't like the avatar, but it's really easy to just pretend it isn't a self-insert. You can customize what they look like, their name, and their voice, but that's about it. I like that Robin is mostly an established character with their own personality otherwise they wouldn't really have support conversations with anyone. The way Awakening did support conversations was the best anyway, it was annoying having to play through 7 20 times just to see one anime say nice things to another.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:45
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One thing I'd definitely like to see in the next Fire Emblem game is a return of the Maniac difficulty, or whatever you want to call the mode between Hard and Lunatic. In Awakening the difficult level basically goes: Normal: FE8 Normal Hard: FE6-Normal to FE7-Hard (Edit: Eliwood Hard, not Hector Hard) Lunatic: Oh God everyone except Fred dies in two hits, if that Lunatic+: FE5-style bullshit skills+oh God even Fred can die in one hit and nobody can dodge anything cheetah7071 posted:Just translate FE5 as-is and put it on the 3DS. Give it an easy mode for everyone else I don't care.    Any character. Seriously, the Marty Party was the greatest thing ever, it's why I joined SA. Cake Attack knocked it out of the park with that LP. CeallaSo posted:The idea of an Elibe game where you can subtly alter the course of history through support conversations is one I'd totally be on board with. Finally, YOU get to decide whether or not Roy is 1/4 dragon. It'd work out not only as a fun game in its own right, but also as a cute homage to FE4. 
fade5 fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 07:47
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The only problem is no save states so now you can't just sit Roy in the first arena until he hits the level cap and then ignore him until the end game. Also hard in FE7 was way, way harder than hard in Awakening.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:35
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How Rude posted:You can customize what they look like, their name, and their voice, but that's about it. I like that Robin is mostly an established character with their own personality otherwise they wouldn't really have support conversations with anyone. You also got, like, five choices that impacted one cutscene and nothing after. Kinda liked those.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:45
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Manatee Cannon posted:The only problem is no save states so now you can't just sit Roy in the first arena until he hits the level cap and then ignore him until the end game. If you use save states in FE you're literally worse than Ashnard, imo
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Nov 11, 2014 08:47
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If you hate yourself enough to use Roy, far be it from me to stop you.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:51
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I really hope in future FE games they keep the "support to A all you want! gently caress it!" thing, as silly as it sounds that is probably my favourite thing about Awakening. Probably because I never bothered to do supports in 6, 7 and 8 (I'm impatient). I did like FE9's system of "# of missions together = progress to support level" thing, too. Bring that back.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:55
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My problem with the suggesting that you combine 7 and 6 into a package game or a really long game is... well... The games don't have anything to DO with one another besides both being set in elibe and the sharing a few characters. Nothing that happens in 7 affected what happened in 6 (because of course 6 came first) it was a completely disconnected tale, it was, essentially, a Gaiden. Mystery of the Emblem made sense because both games starred Marth with the overarching theme of the Shadow Dragon and the Fire Emblem itself, the direct fallout of the first war lead to the cause of the second. It made sense in FE4 because Part 1 sets up the political landscape and themes of Part 2. FE7 had nothing to do with FE6, the only connections it has to the latter game is "Hey, look at X stage, character, remember THEM?!" The plot didn't have any influence the story handled different themes and nothing that happened in FE7 mattered for FE6. And the thing is, FE7 doesn't NEED to be connected to FE6. Let it be its own thing. Don't ask for a connected game, because it doesn't make any sense to have it be connected. You can't even say "Well maybe they can write somethings to better connect the games" because that's... stupid. You can't make FE7 connected to FE6 in a significant way without extensively rewriting the game itself. And visa versa you can't make any of FE6 draw upon FE7 without it being really forced and basically not BEING FE6. When I still posted on Serenes I used to get PMs asking "Okay well I want to do for FE7 what you're doing for FE6, how would I make the game more connected to FE6." And the response I would always give is "That's a bad idea, instead, focus on making FE7 the best game it can be stand alone." And if I'm going to get proper remakes from IntSys? That's my feeling. Don't bother trying to connect them, don't package them together. Just make them stand alone the best games you can.
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Nov 11, 2014 09:03
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Nah pack them together so I don't have to buy both separately. I don't really get what you're talking about since they are 100% connected, they don't have to flow directly into one another for that. The time gap prevents that anyway, you don't have to change the plot in any way for that. Though the best way to do that would be a campaign added inbetween the two to bridge the story, rather than making some unnecessary changes when they already fit together just fine. I guess they could do stat buffs to FE6 characters if you got their parents stat capped in FE7 or something, kinda like what FE10 does with recurring units. Packing them together makes sense just fine even if the only thing they did was translate FE6. edit: the real deal breaker here is them "upgrading" from the sprites to 3D models. That would be truly unacceptable. Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 09:11
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I hope for a Fire Emblem game within the next 5 years, but I'm a simple man.
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Nov 11, 2014 09:17
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That kid you saved in that one chapter deciding to go batshit insane and pull dragons out of his rear end does not a connection make. There is no story to bridge, essentially, other than that one key point with saving Zephiel having repercussions later and a couple of the characters showing up in both games. They might as well not even exist in the same universe for all that it would affect either of the two.
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Nov 11, 2014 09:18
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The Shortest Path posted:That kid you saved in that one chapter deciding to go batshit insane and pull dragons out of his rear end does not a connection make. There is no story to bridge, essentially, other than that one key point with saving Zephiel having repercussions later and a couple of the characters showing up in both games. They might as well not even exist in the same universe for all that it would affect either of the two. This is essentially what I'm trying to say, and in truth, that part of FE7 is essentially a big "Hey, look at these characters from FE6." It's not even Zephiels breaking point that lead to him killing his dad, that happens off-screen. Nothing happened in FE7 that was important to FE6, and visa versa.
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Nov 11, 2014 09:35
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I liked the pair up system, even if it's numbers where terrible. I mean, it gets to like what a 70/70% chance of bonus attack and a full damage null at high support ranks? Who thought that was a good idea? But it made using a knight not involve pulling teeth and I could get them to the front line in a timely manner, so it gets my support.
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Nov 11, 2014 09:52
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The problem was that Pair Up homogenized the poo poo out of all the classes because you could just slap two characters with different weaknesses onto each other, like a Knight and a Myrmidon for example, and do whatever you wanted with them while gaining experience for both. It removed a massive amount of strategy from the game because character selection didn't matter because every character would work in every situation, pretty much. Second Seals only compounded the problem, and the complete lack of interesting or difficult map designs certainly didn't help either, as far as homogenization goes.
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Nov 11, 2014 10:08
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If you're going to do pair up again. Do it like SRW has done it. This adds another thing to my list of "Things FE really needs to steal shamelessly from FE without feeling bad." But hey! Before the SRWK and SRWL systems for Pairing Up, they had the OGs system which was like Awakening, so give them time and they'll get it right!
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Nov 11, 2014 10:12
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I don't think SRW has implemented twins or squads particularly well. In practice the second member is mostly just useful for their spirit commands and/or stat boosts while occasionally dealing kind of lovely damage.
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Nov 11, 2014 14:54
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The Shortest Path posted:The problem was that Pair Up homogenized the poo poo out of all the classes because you could just slap two characters with different weaknesses onto each other, like a Knight and a Myrmidon for example, and do whatever you wanted with them while gaining experience for both. It removed a massive amount of strategy from the game because character selection didn't matter because every character would work in every situation, pretty much. Second Seals only compounded the problem, and the complete lack of interesting or difficult map designs certainly didn't help either, as far as homogenization goes. And what's more is that at the end of the day it was better to just make everyone a Paladin or Sorcerer or whatever and never bother with some classes at all. What's the point of being a Valkyrie? Unless you're Cherche and all your choices are bad, anyway. What would be kinda cool is if units had their base class fixed but you got to pick the other two yourself. Or had a pool of skills to choose from rather than having them be fixed. It wouldn't fix these problems, though. Balancing pair up and the skills better would help, but I don't know how they could make it so none of the classes are irrelevant.
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Nov 11, 2014 15:07
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just make skills tied to scrolls like FE9
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Nov 11, 2014 15:27
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More important than that, bring back the point limitations. One super awesome skill, a couple great, several small but good?
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Nov 11, 2014 15:38
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The only weird part about the Awakening "everyone can get to A" support rules is that more than a few C-A conversations between guys and gals are still pretty romance-heavy, so it's like you've got a unit that's already spoken for trying to win over someone else's heart who is also spoken for. My ideal setup is that there's different supports attainable with different characters based on your previously existing supports, but that would probably be hard to implement in an intuitive way. Dang there's this big cool war game and I'm the guy sitting on the sidelines because the conversations between the animes in my army breaks my immersion too much. 
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Nov 11, 2014 15:41
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The problem with the supports is that obviously they're only going to write one set for each pair, because that's another thing that takes time (though considering the simplicity of them, I should hope not much). And because of that, you either get a slowly-building romance culminating in a declaration of love or else a friendship that suddenly and unexpectedly becomes romantic; in the case of those who you reach A rather than S rank for, I tend to think of it as the characters developing genuine feelings for one another but ultimately deciding that they love someone else more. And yeah, I think that if you can rank skills by their usefulness that the FE9/10 way of doing it works best. There also needs to be a breadth of useful skills to eliminate the possibility of a "best" loadout given the limited skill points, but that's both obvious and easier said than done.
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Nov 11, 2014 16:01
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In my army everyone got married first and then proceeded to spend exactly zero time with their partner for the rest of the game.
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Nov 11, 2014 16:07
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The Shortest Path posted:The problem was that Pair Up homogenized the poo poo out of all the classes because you could just slap two characters with different weaknesses onto each other, like a Knight and a Myrmidon for example, and do whatever you wanted with them while gaining experience for both. It removed a massive amount of strategy from the game because character selection didn't matter because every character would work in every situation, pretty much. Second Seals only compounded the problem, and the complete lack of interesting or difficult map designs certainly didn't help either, as far as homogenization goes. Like I said, the numbers on it are terrible and you have no reason to not be using pairs at all times, but I like the concept. Regy Rusty posted:In my army everyone got married first and then proceeded to spend exactly zero time with their partner for the rest of the game. This man knows how to army
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Nov 11, 2014 16:27
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Manatee Cannon posted:If you hate yourself enough to use Roy, far be it from me to stop you. Not to be rude, but if you thought getting Roy to level 20 was a horrible ordeal without savescumming the arena, you were doing something wrong. Roy's not great, but even in Hard he's not impossible to level since the midgame throws so many Steel Axe fighters/pirates that it's hard for him to die, let alone ram the level cap.
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Nov 11, 2014 16:39
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Terrible and difficult aren't synonyms. Also getting Roy to level 20 and then never using him would make the game harder, not easier since you're down a person in every map until he promotes in the end game. Roy is dumb and bad. Using him is not fun. The arena allows you to not use him quicker.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:05
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Yeah, the problem with Roy isn't that it's hard to get him to level 20. It's that he gets to level 20 fairly easy but can't promote until the end of the game because his promotion is tied to the plot. Which means you're stuck with a level 20 guy on every single map, and any kills he makes are just wasted experience that could have gone into leveling up one of your units that actually has worthwhile stats and growths. ... says the guy who's never actually played FE6, only read the LP.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:20
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No, Roy is useless in practice as well as the LP showed. Roy promotes like 5-6 maps way later than anyone expects to, and it's real dumb when he was already one of the worse units in the game.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:39
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When it comes to sword users, Alan and Lance are making Roy look bad from chapter 1 too. I mean, they make half the cast look useless but the point still stands.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:30
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I'm still of the opinion that the way to fix Pair-Up is to remove the stat bonuses. That makes it a much more tactical thing and makes pairing people up a choice that is still good in some situations, but doesn't make you into a murder machine.
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Nov 11, 2014 22:02
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Zore posted:I'm still of the opinion that the way to fix Pair-Up is to remove the stat bonuses. That makes it a much more tactical thing and makes pairing people up a choice that is still good in some situations, but doesn't make you into a murder machine. The stat boosts were kind of out of control especially on units with A support levels. Fire Emblem has never been about quantity of characters on the map but how broken you can make eight or nine units and the rest get benched in the name of efficiency.
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Nov 11, 2014 22:27
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Zore posted:I'm still of the opinion that the way to fix Pair-Up is to remove the stat bonuses. That makes it a much more tactical thing and makes pairing people up a choice that is still good in some situations, but doesn't make you into a murder machine. Eh, I think they'd be fine paired way the hell down. I don't think there is salvaging a percent chance to randomly take no damage or have a free attack that can also crit get added in.
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Nov 11, 2014 22:30
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