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Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Rearden posted:

Got about ~190 unique visitors to my site, all from adwords, but no sales.
Anyone want to comment on the site? Might be time to try a new niche.

rabbithutches.co

Sites can get thousands a visitors from adwords before they convert, or they can convert regularly every 50.

What are match types? Do you have stupid long tail keywords with "what is" or "how to"? Have you define your target market in settings? What is your landing page? Are you running PLA/Google Shopping campaign?

There are so many possible reasons why you haven't got a conversion just with in adwords, let a lone your unfinished site. Keep in mind I see sites converting on the regular that way worse then yours.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gripen5
Nov 3, 2003

'Startocaster' is more fun to say than I expected.

V.M.Clayton posted:


Gripen5, how're you going atm?


I have been super busy with other things, so this kind of got pushed to the side. Haven't gone live yet.

My biggest hurdle is getting my drop shipper to get back to me. They have been completely unresponsive. I have found a few other drop shippers, but didn't like their product offerings as much. May have to just use them at least in the short term.

Rearden
Nov 28, 2012

Losers
Average
Losers

Gripen5 posted:

The page looks a bit unprofessional. I can't pin point why.

I agree it looks quite scammy - Thank you all for the great advice. I'll be making a bunch of changes (testimonials, pictures, etc.) Hopefully putting in more content makes it look more legitimate.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Finally caught up on the thread and I want to mention one important thing I haven't seen anybody point out.

If you register your business with the state and then abandon it later make sure you inform the state you registered in. This may not apply to all states, but I have a friend who registered a business 4-5 years ago in Texas and then never did a single thing with it. Last year his bank account was frozen and funds withdrawn by the state. Turns out since they never received any tax returns they calculated the average revenue for businesses starting out in Texas in his industry and used that for his tax liability. It built up over the years with penalties etc until they finally froze his account. It is worth noting my friend is a dumbass and didn't even open their letters leading up to this because he never made any sales. In the end he only had to pay the penalties and late fees and they waived the principle, but you don't want something like this to happen to you!

Juanito
Jan 20, 2004

I wasn't paying attention
to what you just said.

Can you repeat yourself
in a more interesting way?
Hell Gem

D-Pad posted:

Finally caught up on the thread and I want to mention one important thing I haven't seen anybody point out.

If you register your business with the state and then abandon it later make sure you inform the state you registered in. This may not apply to all states, but I have a friend who registered a business 4-5 years ago in Texas and then never did a single thing with it. Last year his bank account was frozen and funds withdrawn by the state. Turns out since they never received any tax returns they calculated the average revenue for businesses starting out in Texas in his industry and used that for his tax liability. It built up over the years with penalties etc until they finally froze his account. It is worth noting my friend is a dumbass and didn't even open their letters leading up to this because he never made any sales. In the end he only had to pay the penalties and late fees and they waived the principle, but you don't want something like this to happen to you!
Yikes, thanks! I did this in Illinois last year.. and never did anything in the state. I just contacted them.

D-Pad
Jun 28, 2006

Wanted to follow up with my post above with a post about liability as I have seen some sketchy advice in this thread.


It seems the prevailing advice is to start as a sole proprietorship and worry about an LLC when you get further along. Depending on the product this could really screw you over. For example, I have seen a few niches mentioned on here (but not pursued) that could potentially pose big liability issues: ultra-light aircraft kits/scuba equipment.

In the time between registering as a sole proprietorship and upgrading to an LLC what will you do if somebody dies when one of their scuba tank hoses is bad? True, the chances are small, but as someone pointed out earlier this is where "piercing the corporate veil" comes into play. Even if none of your products malfunction and injure somebody before you setup your LLC, a good lawyer could still go after you personally years later because you were a sole proprietorship at some point with your name on the business.

Before deciding whether to start as a SP or invest in an LLC you need to consider potential liability issues your product poses. The guy selling silver coins probably doesn't have anything to worry about, but if your product produces heat, uses electricity, or provides life-sustaining functions such as not hurtling into the ground at a high rate of speed you should START with an LLC and possibly talk to a lawyer.

Edit:

I don't suggest using LegalZoom, but they have an LLC page for each state that breaks down all the requirements including ongoing obligations. I suggest referencing it, as it is at the very least usually formatted better than the average state site. For example, here is the Texas page: http://www.legalzoom.com/llc-state-requirements/texas-llc.html

D-Pad fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Apr 22, 2014

V.M.Clayton
Oct 10, 2010

D-Pad posted:

Finally caught up on the thread and I want to mention one important thing I haven't seen anybody point out.

If you register your business with the state and then abandon it later make sure you inform the state you registered in. This may not apply to all states, but I have a friend who registered a business 4-5 years ago in Texas and then never did a single thing with it. Last year his bank account was frozen and funds withdrawn by the state. Turns out since they never received any tax returns they calculated the average revenue for businesses starting out in Texas in his industry and used that for his tax liability. It built up over the years with penalties etc until they finally froze his account. It is worth noting my friend is a dumbass and didn't even open their letters leading up to this because he never made any sales. In the end he only had to pay the penalties and late fees and they waived the principle, but you don't want something like this to happen to you!

haha Thanks for the reminder.

In regards to starting a sole trader, you can always buy insurance.

Mantle
May 15, 2004

I don't recall if this has been posted yet but I found a pretty baller referral link to shopify-- 30 day free trial instead of 15 and 20% off all paid plans for life:

http://www.shopify.com/?ref=a-better-lemonade-stand&signup_code=a-better-lemonade-stand

You can kick this guy an email subscription too if you want to support him for providing you the referral: http://www.abetterlemonadestand.com/sign-up/

crashdome
Jun 28, 2011
I was the one posting about the ultralights... I am an LLC and have been for 7 years. I probably should have stated that. Also, about the sales tax... Yes they do estimates if you don't follow up every month or quarter like you should and it will cost you dearly. I found out the hard way.

Don't be lazy about your business. Also, secure an LLC if you can. You can quit any time but, make sure you tell your state.

Baby Babbeh
Aug 2, 2005

It's hard to soar with the eagles when you work with Turkeys!!



A question about LLCs: if I register an LLC in a state where I don't live, what does that mean for my tax liability and registration requirements for the state where I do live? I ask because California's process and laws are super unfriendly ($800 a year, what the gently caress?) I also want to keep my normal job for the time being, and for various reasons that means I don't really want to be publicly attached to a niche site, so the confidentiality rules in Wyoming or Nevada appeal to me. But I'm also don't want to accidentally create more overhead for myself or open myself up to a double taxation situation.

jabro
Mar 25, 2003

July Mock Draft 2014

1st PLACE
RUNNER-UP
got the knowshon


Baby Babbeh posted:

A question about LLCs: if I register an LLC in a state where I don't live, what does that mean for my tax liability and registration requirements for the state where I do live? I ask because California's process and laws are super unfriendly ($800 a year, what the gently caress?) I also want to keep my normal job for the time being, and for various reasons that means I don't really want to be publicly attached to a niche site, so the confidentiality rules in Wyoming or Nevada appeal to me. But I'm also don't want to accidentally create more overhead for myself or open myself up to a double taxation situation.

I live in CA and and from internet searches it looks like you are but when I finally do register one I plan to talk to an attorney who knows better than random bloggers on the internet. Even the CA State site is vague as all hell. I suggest just talk to someone that deals with these sort of things.

crashdome
Jun 28, 2011
IANAL but, I thought most LLCs require a mailing address within the state registered?

edit: I had to search and found this: Link

quote:

If you do not have a brick and mortar business, such as an internet-based company or a consulting business, then you may have some more options open to you. Since Corporations and LLCs are entities entirely separate from you – they are like separate people – which means that they can live wherever they choose, which may or may not be the same state that you live in. Some states have more favorable tax laws or better corporate infrastructures. If you have spoken to your attorney and have determined that your business is in fact not transacting business in your state, then you have a decision to make!

Best to consult a lawyer and/or an accountant familiar with this though.

crashdome fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Apr 24, 2014

V.M.Clayton
Oct 10, 2010
Does anyone have any idea of the kind of tax advantages a company would have over a sole trader? Companies pay expenses before they pay tax, but what can be classed off as an expense? Uniforms require a company logo. What about food "while working" or company "business trips" (aka go to some eCommerce conference in Europe and spend a few extra days there)?

Gripen5
Nov 3, 2003

'Startocaster' is more fun to say than I expected.

V.M.Clayton posted:

Does anyone have any idea of the kind of tax advantages a company would have over a sole trader? Companies pay expenses before they pay tax, but what can be classed off as an expense? Uniforms require a company logo. What about food "while working" or company "business trips" (aka go to some eCommerce conference in Europe and spend a few extra days there)?

I am fairly sure that anyone can write off business expenses. Even if you are not a sole proprietor or part of an LLC. What those expenses are may require a tax professional.

For instance, I have to drive for work 2 to 3 times a week to various job sites we have. My company reimburses me based on the IRS tax code for mileage, which I think its $0.57 per mile or something close to that. However, if they did not, I was told by our accountant I could write them off on my tax return at the end of the year. I am sure that would require receipts if you are ever audited, so save absolutely everything if you plan on writing it off.

Edit: I think I missed half of the point you were asking. If you spend extra time that is not work related you would probably have to find a way to separate the two and not write off what is not business related.

Gripen5 fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 24, 2014

Baby Babbeh
Aug 2, 2005

It's hard to soar with the eagles when you work with Turkeys!!



V.M.Clayton posted:

Does anyone have any idea of the kind of tax advantages a company would have over a sole trader? Companies pay expenses before they pay tax, but what can be classed off as an expense? Uniforms require a company logo. What about food "while working" or company "business trips" (aka go to some eCommerce conference in Europe and spend a few extra days there)?

As I understand that you can do that as a business owner whether or not you're a sole proprietorship or some other corporate model. There are a LOT of things that are tax writeoffs as business expenses, including a portion of your rent or mortgage if you have a home office. But as soon as you start doing that you're getting into the territory where you really should be retaining an actual accountant to walk you through what can and can't be written off.

Admiral101
Feb 20, 2006
RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Baby Babbeh posted:

A question about LLCs: if I register an LLC in a state where I don't live, what does that mean for my tax liability and registration requirements for the state where I do live? I ask because California's process and laws are super unfriendly ($800 a year, what the gently caress?) I also want to keep my normal job for the time being, and for various reasons that means I don't really want to be publicly attached to a niche site, so the confidentiality rules in Wyoming or Nevada appeal to me. But I'm also don't want to accidentally create more overhead for myself or open myself up to a double taxation situation.

LLC's themselves don't actually pay tax. Instead, the income that's earned in the LLC is going to ultimately be reported on your individual tax return.

Setting up a company in a different state from where you live is not a cheap, convenient, or easy process - especially for someone at your small scale. And as far as tax liabilities go, you're not going to be saving anything, and will instead open up multi-state filing requirements on your end.

crashdome posted:

IANAL but, I thought most LLCs require a mailing address within the state registered?


They do, but you can pay someone to be your "registered agent" in the state for an annual fee.

crashdome
Jun 28, 2011

Admiral101 posted:

LLC's themselves don't actually pay tax. Instead, the income that's earned in the LLC is going to ultimately be reported on your individual tax return.


For those of you in the US, this.. this right here is the main reason why you pick LLC. You get the ease of a sole-proprietarship and most the benefits and abilites of an C Corp (members and managers) but without the double tax an C Corp would cause.

The whole purpose of any of those options is simply to seperate business liability from personal assets.

For example, I am in business with a partner 50/50 in an LLC for the sole purpose of protecting our personal property. When we make positive earnings at the end of the year, we either spend it on expansion or spilt the value and claim it on our income tax as addl income. Technically I'm protected in case some idiot sues me and try and take my house but, that's up to a judge of course

Edit: vvv thank you for clarifying.

crashdome fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Apr 24, 2014

Admiral101
Feb 20, 2006
RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

crashdome posted:

For those of you in the US, this.. this right here is the main reason why you pick LLC. You get the ease of a sole-proprietarship and most the benefits and abilites of an S Corp (members and managers) but without the double tax an S Corp would cause.

S Corps don't have double taxation. You're thinking of C Corps.

lwoodio
Apr 4, 2008

Rearden posted:

Got about ~190 unique visitors to my site, all from adwords, but no sales.
Anyone want to comment on the site? Might be time to try a new niche.

rabbithutches.co

I ran a bunny hutch Amazon affiliate microniche site until Google slapped it for being terrible. A lot of my sales included accessories related to hutches like urine guards, grass mats, hanging water bottles, play pen attachments, outdoor run attachments. Maybe you are losing sales because a person is going to have to go to Amazon to get the whole shebang, so why make 2 orders instead of 1?

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
I'm having some difficulty really parsing some of the information in the OP. I'm poor and want to start this, but can't seem to really get past the learning curve of Google Adwords or Market Samurai to even begin to look for niches.

Can someone dumb this down for me? How exactly do I tell if the top 10 of a niche are optimized or not?


Also, has anyone made any money on this besides the OP?

jabro
Mar 25, 2003

July Mock Draft 2014

1st PLACE
RUNNER-UP
got the knowshon


Firstborn posted:

I'm having some difficulty really parsing some of the information in the OP. I'm poor and want to start this, but can't seem to really get past the learning curve of Google Adwords or Market Samurai to even begin to look for niches.

Can someone dumb this down for me? How exactly do I tell if the top 10 of a niche are optimized or not?


Also, has anyone made any money on this besides the OP?

There is 40 pages of information here which also shows you how things have changed since the OP in regards to Market Samurai. It's all laid out in layman's terms so it should be no problem to follow along.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
The Market Samurai dojo really helped. Still, has anyone made any significant income yet?

PongAtari
May 9, 2003
Hurry, hurry, hurry, try my rice and curry.
I read the first few pages of the thread and I've thought of a niche that might be worth looking into. The OP seems to be talking about selling a specific product though, and my niche is more of a range of products that can be used for a particular purpose. Is this still worth looking into?

I'd also like to know if anyone else has made significant income from doing this.

Gripen5
Nov 3, 2003

'Startocaster' is more fun to say than I expected.

PongAtari posted:

I read the first few pages of the thread and I've thought of a niche that might be worth looking into. The OP seems to be talking about selling a specific product though, and my niche is more of a range of products that can be used for a particular purpose. Is this still worth looking into?

I'd also like to know if anyone else has made significant income from doing this.

I am sure it could work if the products share a lot of common key words. You could always give it a try. Part of the process is trying something new.

There are a few people have have mentioned making some money, but I don't think anything serious. As far as I know, no one mentioned going full time into it. That was kind of something that we are sort of glossing over. Most of us are treating it like a second job or even a hobby. The OP quit his job and made it his full time job to build his business into what it would become. At the same time, he also said his financial and personal situation at the time allowed him to do that, while I imagine many of us don't have that luxury.

I had a fairly positive test phase, but had issues with my supplier and haven't had time to resolve it due to other commitments. I will hopefully get back on track in the next couple weeks and maybe make a profit starting in June. I will keep you posted if there is anything worth posting.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Firstborn posted:

I'm having some difficulty really parsing some of the information in the OP. I'm poor and want to start this, but can't seem to really get past the learning curve of Google Adwords or Market Samurai to even begin to look for niches.

Can someone dumb this down for me? How exactly do I tell if the top 10 of a niche are optimized or not?
A very bad question. If you can't investigate a business you're going to start, do you really have the commitment to keep it going it's difficult? Life isn't about magic bullets, it's about finding a path that you find transverse-able.

quote:

Also, has anyone made any money on this besides the OP?
A very good question, and one you should ask about any new wealth opportunity. :)

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

PongAtari posted:


I'd also like to know if anyone else has made significant income from doing this.

Yes, I know several that have.

Yes I am!
Nov 7, 2009

V.M.Clayton posted:

Does anyone have any idea of the kind of tax advantages a company would have over a sole trader? Companies pay expenses before they pay tax, but what can be classed off as an expense? Uniforms require a company logo. What about food "while working" or company "business trips" (aka go to some eCommerce conference in Europe and spend a few extra days there)?

Hey mate, from your post I think you're a fellow Australian :australia: I'm not a tax accountant so take the following with a grain of salt. Also tax schemes and poo poo are generally the best at higher income, it will be surprising if the tax man comes after a guy who has low turnover. If you do it sensibly and follow the general information on https://www.ato.gov.au you should be okay. Once you're hitting even 10% of OP money, it may be a good idea to consult a tax accounting firm.

The deductions a company would get is a flat 30%. Whether you get a better benefit claiming the expense personally depends entirely on your overall effective tax rate (say you're being taxed at 19% tax bracketyour deductions would only amount to 20%). There is more to it than you would expect as we're on a sliding scale tax system. Theres heaps of other poo poo to consider as well such as; FBT, Franking credits etc.

There are some weirdly specific tax laws, i.e. Sunscreen for a tradie is deductible but not for say an office worker. Generally you'll be safe if you can justify objectively that it is a business expense.

In your specific case of the extended "business trips", it's all about how you justify it. The commerce conference trip should be fully deductible as there is a direct link, so are the meals. But I think there may be a cap on it, with the remainder being possibly open to fringe benefits tax (don't quote me on this one).

If say on the business trip, you spend the extra few days sight seeing, you could also be "market researching", i.e. going into shops and looking for ideas to plug into market ninja. You could potentially justify say 50% of all expenses in this period.

Overall, you can claim whatever you want, its just if the ATO comes knocking you have to be able to justify why it is a business expense. Company credit cards are good for this, even if you don't have a different account you could ask for a secondary card and designate it as for business use only to help keep track of your expenditure, many do this and even budget the platinum amex card lets you have up to 3 different cards I think.

If you want a full hand book, look into getting a Master Tax Guide hand book. It is pretty good, and you can probably get an old one from your local uni second hand book shop for cheap (they are updated yearly, but day-to-day use I wouldn't shell out the $200+ for a new one, but that's just me).

Also saw your question about the public liability insurance, a friend of mine got coverage for up to $25m and it costs him $7,500. Have no idea about the pros and cons on this as he also got a Pty Ltd through asic. He is however not currently doing e-commerce.

I'm also looking for someone to bounce off ideas with occasional so feel free to PM me if you want to chat on skype or something!

Lando2
Jan 16, 2010

Turns out just hunks
I completely forgot about this thread!

I posted earlier in the year with my business progress and so far have had mixed results. I am operating at very close to even margins due to the high use of adwords which costs me most of my profit. I am 1 of about 3 in Canada selling this product and plan to try a forum advert for a specific demographic in the next couple weeks.

I've had 3 different versions of my website and the 3rd has been the best so far, generating triple the amount of sales and general inquiries. I am using some generic wordpress theme that I paid a guy from Pakistan to make for me through odesk.

So far total sunk into this is about $2000 total. And using current data I will probably make it back with about $400 profit once stock runs out. Considering the amount of time I spent on it (Meeting with fulfilment centres and the initial suppliers, business costs among other things) I would say it's been an okay learning experience. Depending upon how this advertisement goes in the next couple weeks will help me decide if I want to continue with this niche. I'm not confident enough to post my website here just yet but hopefully some good news will follow soon.

Also how many of you have looked into getting government grants? They basically told me if I fill out this lengthy form I am almost guaranteed money because not many people take advantage of them that often. Or the ones that do don't have legitimate businesses up and running and just want to buy a camera for their "Photography Business"

Mantle
May 15, 2004

Oh, I hadn't thought of grants. Which ones are you referring to? (Canada)

SpelledBackwards
Jan 7, 2001

I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

Mantle posted:

Oh, I hadn't thought of grants. Which ones are you referring to? (Canada)

You just made Matthew Lesko (and Lyle Tillman) very sad

Lando2
Jan 16, 2010

Turns out just hunks
There are still people who shill out the "secrets" of getting grants unfortunately. I contacted an agency looking to get some info on the grants they offer and if any were non-repayable and they basically asked me for $300 (It's been a while since I called them, this may not be exact) to put me on a mailing list to send me links from government Canada websites. I called them on it and asked if they have ever given out money to people and they said no. Their website copied the template that government Canada uses which is why I called in the first place.

I have a bunch of places bookmarked on my home PC but basically they all had to do with youth business grants (Below 28 yrs old or something like that) and other general entrepreneur grant programs. But they are basically perfect for testing a few sites or ideas you may have under one company name.

dhrusis
Jan 19, 2004
searching...
I need some help with Adwords. When I use the keyword research tool, particularly for low volume keywords, Google says the default bid is pretty low like somewhere around $.23. When I set the campaign to auto bid, however the bid price jumps up to somewhere around 1.30-2.50. I literally paid $4.50 for 2 clicks. Is it me, am I advertising in a market that is too competitive? $2.50 is a lot to pay for a click, especially when 3% is a "good" conversion rate.

I'd like to take a tactic of advertising for lower volume, cheaper keywords. Does it make sense to reduce the bid amount and just wait it out? I'm going to do some testing on this.

lwoodio
Apr 4, 2008

What's your quality score?

dhrusis
Jan 19, 2004
searching...

lwoodio posted:

What's your quality score?

The one I serving was a 6/10. I've since learned a little and I'm targeting to the wrong place. So I'll be adjusting and we'll see what happens.

Vilgefartz
Apr 29, 2013

Good ideas 4 free
Fun Shoe
Hey there, about to start delving into this and I'm using AdSense to find good keywords. I'm getting some good ones in the Australian region, but I'm wondering if an Australian website with the right keywords would take priority position over foreign websites if searched on google in Australia?

lwoodio
Apr 4, 2008

The rankings will usually be tailored to the user's region if the query is better served by regional results. "How to change a tire" wouldn't matter. "Buy tires" will be tailored to the user's region.

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
Wanted to make a post in this thread about AdWords and some helpful tips to increase return on ad spend (ROAS), once you have proven that your niche is viable. I’ve posted a few time in this thread already, and helped dozens of goons with free analyses and consulting work. I figured posting a success story might revitalize this thread and motivate some of you on not giving up.
I recently worked closely with a Goon who had 3 – 4 serious competitors in his niche, but was suffering from ineffective campaigns that could barely justify paying for clicks with Google.

The largest waste in his ad spend was ads running outside of his target market, which is the United States. Sure, there is a global demand he could fulfill, but logistically he couldn’t justify shipping his products across seas. In a two month period his account spent ~$2,000 with $800 spent alone in the Philippines with zero conversions. Across the entire account, he only spent ~$200 in the US.

When you build your accounts, make certain that your campaigns have “People in my targeted location” selected in Location Options (advanced), and to target your audiences physical location (ie United States). This section in campaign settings you can also exclude countries, states, regions, cities, and even boroughs the same way you negative match keywords. The top three countries that waste the most money in the hundreds of accounts I have seen are always China, India, and the Philippines.

This goon also made the common mistake of using broad match settings on high searched volume words, ie Fingers, Calluses, etc. His long tail keywords weren’t bottom of funnel searches ( buying searches), but top of the funnel or people first entering into their buying process. On average, his quality scores for these keywords were around 3.5/10.

This resulted in picking up a lot of impressions [read worthless] and only a few clicks, but they did convert 2% of the time. You may think 2% conversion rate is good but just like quality score, click through rate, and cost per click this statistic doesn't matter until you compare it to cost per acquisition (CPA).

By defining a cap for CPA, then throwing out keywords and ads that spend over the cap, we were able to optimize the account by reducing his CPA by 26%, while increasing conversions by 150%. His CTR increase by 380% and his QS doubled, resulting in more qualified traffic that was more likely to buy his product. This strategy focused on people nearing the end of their buying process. The searchers knew exactly what their problem was, knew how they were going to solve it, but did not know which company they wanted to buy from.

With longer search terms, a focused targeting, higher quality scores, and running on search network ONLY you all should see positive ROAS. You need to think of AdWords traffic as demand fulfillment, not as a mean to increase “traffic” for the sake of having more people on your site and hope they convert.

EDIT: I should also mention that if any of you work for, with, or know of a non-profit they probably can get $10,000 per month in free advertising in AdWords. Here is a link to the eligibility form.
http://www.google.com/grants/eligibility.html

Snatch Duster fucked around with this message at 23:45 on May 30, 2014

dhrusis
Jan 19, 2004
searching...

Snatch Duster posted:

Wanted to make a post in this thread about AdWords and some helpful tips to increase return on ad spend (ROAS), once you have proven that your niche is viable. I’ve posted a few time in this thread already, and helped dozens of goons with free analyses and consulting work. I figured posting a success story might revitalize this thread and motivate some of you on not giving up.
I recently worked closely with a Goon who had 3 – 4 serious competitors in his niche, but was suffering from ineffective campaigns that could barely justify paying for clicks with Google.

The largest waste in his ad spend was ads running outside of his target market, which is the United States. Sure, there is a global demand he could fulfill, but logistically he couldn’t justify shipping his products across seas. In a two month period his account spent ~$2,000 with $800 spent alone in the Philippines with zero conversions. Across the entire account, he only spent ~$200 in the US.

When you build your accounts, make certain that your campaigns have “People in my targeted location” selected in Location Options (advanced), and to target your audiences physical location (ie United States). This section in campaign settings you can also exclude countries, states, regions, cities, and even boroughs the same way you negative match keywords. The top three countries that waste the most money in the hundreds of accounts I have seen are always China, India, and the Philippines.

This goon also made the common mistake of using broad match settings on high searched volume words, ie Fingers, Calluses, etc. His long tail keywords weren’t bottom of funnel searches ( buying searches), but top of the funnel or people first entering into their buying process. On average, his quality scores for these keywords were around 3.5/10.

This resulted in picking up a lot of impressions [read worthless] and only a few clicks, but they did convert 2% of the time. You may think 2% conversion rate is good but just like quality score, click through rate, and cost per click this statistic doesn't matter until you compare it to cost per acquisition (CPA).

By defining a cap for CPA, then throwing out keywords and ads that spend over the cap, we were able to optimize the account by reducing his CPA by 26%, while increasing conversions by 150%. His CTR increase by 380% and his QS doubled, resulting in more qualified traffic that was more likely to buy his product. This strategy focused on people nearing the end of their buying process. The searchers knew exactly what their problem was, knew how they were going to solve it, but did not know which company they wanted to buy from.

With longer search terms, a focused targeting, higher quality scores, and running on search network ONLY you all should see positive ROAS. You need to think of AdWords traffic as demand fulfillment, not as a mean to increase “traffic” for the sake of having more people on your site and hope they convert.

EDIT: I should also mention that if any of you work for, with, or know of a non-profit they probably can get $10,000 per month in free advertising in AdWords. Here is a link to the eligibility form.
http://www.google.com/grants/eligibility.html

Thanks for the info Snatch Duster.. and I appreciate what advice you offered for me as well. (I'm not the guy he's talking about, obviously)

I've since moved my keywords to further down the funnel.. what's perplexing me right now is the drastic difference in cost between Google and Bing.

I have a ~0.3% CTR for my ads right now (this sounds REALLY low), with very few clicks.. they are all low volume keywords unfortunately.

But check this out.. look how much cheaper Bing is... and many more impressions. I've had to lower my Google bids for the same keywords to 1$ because its just so expensive for what seems like no results. That put me at an average of 3.8 position. Bing is at 0.05$ for top position!

Bing:


Google:

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

dhrusis posted:

Thanks for the info Snatch Duster.. and I appreciate what advice you offered for me as well. (I'm not the guy he's talking about, obviously)

I've since moved my keywords to further down the funnel.. what's perplexing me right now is the drastic difference in cost between Google and Bing.

I have a ~0.3% CTR for my ads right now (this sounds REALLY low), with very few clicks.. they are all low volume keywords unfortunately.

But check this out.. look how much cheaper Bing is... and many more impressions. I've had to lower my Google bids for the same keywords to 1$ because its just so expensive for what seems like no results. That put me at an average of 3.8 position. Bing is at 0.05$ for top position!

Bing:


Google:


Bing can be extremely cheap and this is generally the case for every industry. One change I would recommend is removing Display network go search network only. That is why you have thousands of impressions with hardly any clicks. Think of search as demand fulfillment and display for branding and retargeting. You can also use search networks, on Google, for remarketing lists too.

EDIT: Also, mobile ads tend to be cheaper, avg position are higher, and have a better CTR. To check this go to All Online Campaigns -> Segment -> Devices. Here you can see the break down for desktops, mobile phones, tablets, and Other. If you are running display on cell phones/tablets go to Display Network tab -> Placement, here you can see what sites and apps your ads are running in based off of your contextual keywords. I highly recommend turning off display for every new account that is using PPC as a means to generate cash flow.

Snatch Duster fucked around with this message at 23:59 on May 31, 2014

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Gripen5
Nov 3, 2003

'Startocaster' is more fun to say than I expected.
Finally think I may actually be able to get somewhere with this again...

So after over a month and assuming they would never get back to me, the drop shipping company I contacted back in mid-April sent me an email. I will cut them a little slack since the person who got back to me was different than from the email I originally sent. I have a feeling they went through a transition of some kind with the last guy, and who knows the details on.

The email asks me to describe my business and has some other basic questions. However, one of the questions is "how long have you worked in ecommerce/brick & mortar retail?" I remember reading in this thread long ago that you don't want to come across as young and inexperienced. What would be a good way to reassure them without outright lying? I am not even sure if/how exactly they are using my answers as an evaluation of if they wish to do business with me. The closest thing I have to retail experience was being a bag boy for a year at a grocery store almost two decades ago.

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