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Doing my first stress test on the new CPU. First run was 60s at 100% across six cores. Maximum temperature was indicated to be 52°C. Low was 48°C. The motherboard automatically sped up the fan/pump. EDIT: After another 30 minutes or so max I saw was about 54°C with maybe 4°C or less of standard deviation. Also running some hard tests on the DDR4 RAM (16GB). Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 22:46
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Don't bother running the pump variable speed, maxed out it'll barely make noise and you'll get dramatically better cooling performance. The fan might end up needing to run slower so ultimately you'll end up quieter.
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Nov 19, 2017 23:11
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craig588 posted:Don't bother running the pump variable speed, maxed out it'll barely make noise and you'll get dramatically better cooling performance. The fan might end up needing to run slower so ultimately you'll end up quieter. I will need to look at the settings for that. I don’t want to get into a control system scenario where one control loop is fighting the other. Setting the pump to always run at maximum speed would not be a problem in that sense. Those temperatures were with the system running at stock clock.
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Nov 19, 2017 23:24
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I want to move to using linux on all my machines, since I've developed a preference for it due to setting up and running a server and using a mac. Is it easy to migrate a physical windows installation to a kvm one? I would just reinstall it, but i'm a bit worried about having to re-register my installation since I don't remember where I kept the key (and I might've used it to register the boot camp installation on my macbook...)
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Nov 19, 2017 23:41
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:I want to move to using linux on all my machines, since I've developed a preference for it due to setting up and running a server and using a mac. Is it easy to migrate a physical windows installation to a kvm one? I would just reinstall it, but i'm a bit worried about having to re-register my installation since I don't remember where I kept the key (and I might've used it to register the boot camp installation on my macbook...) VMware converter could definitely do it but I don't know what's available for kvm
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Nov 19, 2017 23:56
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So as far as overclocking the 8600k, am I correct that 85C is the "redline" temperature and 100C is the "never exceed" temperature? Or is that being too conservative? (My understanding is that the CPU will throttle to protect itself but I can imagine some unlikely situations like a catastrophic heatsink failure/separation that could maybe kill the CPU anyways.) If I overclock I'm going to try not to exceed 75C. If possible I'd like this machine to run well for 3-5 years. Also this was my first time with this fancy "UEFI" thing instead of the old BIOS that looks pretty much the same whether it's a computer from 1985 or 2005. It works with the mouse and has pretty graphics! 
Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 01:11
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If the heatsink falls off you are going to get a thermal shutdown extremely quick
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Nov 20, 2017 01:15
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Intel had a demo where they removed the heatsink and it didn't kill the CPU. Of course overclocking probably disables some amount of that protection.
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Nov 20, 2017 01:26
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craig588 posted:Intel had a demo where they removed the heatsink and it didn't kill the CPU. Of course overclocking probably disables some amount of that protection. I remember reading in a computer magazine way back where this kid finished his build (I think it was an earlier AMD Athlon processor) and it worked for a minute or so then the computer shut down and he smelled burning - he didn't plug in the heatsink fan and the CPU got so hot not only did it die but it burned the motherboard. It looks like we've come a long way in terms of over temperature protection.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:03
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craig588 posted:Intel had a demo where they removed the heatsink and it didn't kill the CPU. Of course overclocking probably disables some amount of that protection. Overclocking shouldn't disable thermal throttling (at least normal OCing, I don't know about LN2 runs or anything like that). The CPU drops to a low multiplier like 8x (may vary by model) where it can just kind of run without bursting into flames. I diagnosed a goon's AIO cooler with a dead pump over mumble once due to bad game performance. Upon looking at HWInfo he found his CPU that had been OC'd at a local shop hit the max at 99C and then throttled to 800mhz.
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Nov 20, 2017 02:04
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Three-Phase posted:I remember reading in a computer magazine way back where this kid finished his build (I think it was an earlier AMD Athlon processor) and it worked for a minute or so then the computer shut down and he smelled burning - he didn't plug in the heatsink fan and the CPU got so hot not only did it die but it burned the motherboard. https://youtu.be/NxNUK3U73SI
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Nov 20, 2017 02:59
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Yep. First system I built I fried an Athlon. Brought it back to the hardware fair the next day and played dumb and the guy sighed and gave me a new one for free.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:00
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Three-Phase posted:So as far as overclocking the 8600k, am I correct that 85C is the "redline" temperature and 100C is the "never exceed" temperature? Or is that being too conservative? (My understanding is that the CPU will throttle to protect itself but I can imagine some unlikely situations like a catastrophic heatsink failure/separation that could maybe kill the CPU anyways.) Coffeelake can run pretty hot. 100C is the upper limit, but you will get thermal throttling before any damage to your CPU happens. If you are into your 70s under load I wouldn't sweat it, and if you are doing torture tests with AVX loads for test you won't hurt anything if you get into the 90s. If you are at 54 degrees during stress test you have lots of thermal headroom, though that depends on what stress test means.
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Nov 20, 2017 05:22
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craig588 posted:Stock turbo on a 8700k is 4.7GHz. So the silicon is designed for at least that, power and temperature permitting. Stock turbo on one core is 4.7 and not all 6 cores
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Nov 20, 2017 06:09
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The transistors all happily fire at 4.7GHz is what they're saying.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:21
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I'm thinking of upgrading my 4670k (OC to 4.2gHz) to an 8700 non K as i'm not really an overclocker. But all the benchmarks I've seen are for the 8700k being driven to hell and back on an AIO cooler rather than the non K. Will my 212 evo need to be retired even for a non K?
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Nov 20, 2017 10:08
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Cancelbot posted:I'm thinking of upgrading my 4670k (OC to 4.2gHz) to an 8700 non K as i'm not really an overclocker. But all the benchmarks I've seen are for the 8700k being driven to hell and back on an AIO cooler rather than the non K. Will my 212 evo need to be retired even for a non K? Intel includes their stock cooler with the non-Ks. The 212 EVO will work fine.
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Nov 20, 2017 10:11
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Cancelbot posted:I'm thinking of upgrading my 4670k (OC to 4.2gHz) to an 8700 non K as i'm not really an overclocker. But all the benchmarks I've seen are for the 8700k being driven to hell and back on an AIO cooler rather than the non K. Will my 212 evo need to be retired even for a non K? 212 evo will be totally fine. I have a 8700 non-K running with a Dark Rock 3 air cooler with no issues. The stock cooler is tiny afterall (although they have updated the fin pattern and it has much more surface area than the same boxed HSF from Kaby Lake) Just as a reminder, its a 65w chip at stock settings, meaning it will boost up to 4.3ghz (95w TDP) on all cores only briefly before settling back to 3.8ghz (at 65w TDP). Thats good, but not great at all. However, if you get a motherboard that supports setting the TDP (which I know ASUS and ASRock do, and I assume the others have too), simply setting the TDP to 95w allows it to run at 4.3ghz alllll day and match the stock 8700K in clocks, without any overclocking/overvolting or messing with any other settings at all. a 212evo will be able to handle 95w, and 6c/12t with Coffee Lake IPC at 4.3ghz is pretty great.
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Nov 20, 2017 17:48
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For those that have delidded, how important is a clean silicone job around the IHS? I was clinical with the liquid metal application but my silicone situation got, uh, messy.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:27
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I think silicone is a relatively new thing. I'm pretty sure I didn't use any at all when I did an Ivybridge and definitely not when I was doing A64s. It's more important you don't make it too thick than anything else, it's just keeping the IHS there so there's no chance of a sloppy install into the motherboard AFAIK. If you make it thick you're right back into the pre delid situation of poor contact from too much of a gap.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:51
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I just wish someone would have a brainwave and start making *shims* again. If you're going to void your warranty anyway, why not go bare die with a precisely-machined and dimensioned shim to prevent you from crushing your core?
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Nov 20, 2017 21:07
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I just wish someone would have a brainwave and start making *shims* again. If you're going to void your warranty anyway, why not go bare die with a precisely-machined and dimensioned shim to prevent you from crushing your core? Agreed. I tried to keep it pretty thin and I'm having it set with a metal plate on it to press it down. Fingies crossed. 
willroc7 fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 21:14
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willroc7 posted:Agreed. I tried to keep it pretty thin and I'm having it set with a metal plate on it to press it down. Fingies crossed. All around the mulberry bush the heatsink chased the core die....
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Nov 20, 2017 21:29
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craig588 posted:I think silicone is a relatively new thing. I'm pretty sure I didn't use any at all when I did an Ivybridge and definitely not when I was doing A64s. It's more important you don't make it too thick than anything else, it's just keeping the IHS there so there's no chance of a sloppy install into the motherboard AFAIK. If you make it thick you're right back into the pre delid situation of poor contact from too much of a gap. Yeah this matches my understanding. The silicone's only job is to act as an adhesive. Which is kinda weird because outside of this unique situation its primary purpose is to act as a sealant, but we deliberately leave a gap in the seal.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:32
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I just wish someone would have a brainwave and start making *shims* again. If you're going to void your warranty anyway, why not go bare die with a precisely-machined and dimensioned shim to prevent you from crushing your core? Aqua Computer still makes shims: http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=3378 They don't have one for the bigger CL die yet but it's probably just a matter of time.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:35
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How common were chipped dies back in the day when Athlon shipped like that? I went the P3 to P4 route so there was always an IHS sitting in there.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:39
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I remember, coming from athlon, thinking it was weird to have an IHS.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:44
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I just wish someone would have a brainwave and start making *shims* again. If you're going to void your warranty anyway, why not go bare die with a precisely-machined and dimensioned shim to prevent you from crushing your core? Because the cpu comes with a shim, its called the IHS. you can buy solid silver ihs replacements though.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:48
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:How common were chipped dies back in the day when Athlon shipped like that? I went the P3 to P4 route so there was always an IHS sitting in there. p3 had a bare die athlon dies chipped a lot which is why they put the foam pads around them.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:49
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repiv posted:Aqua Computer still makes shims: http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=3378 I really wish they'd contact Noctua and get an NHD15 to fit. I don't want massive overclocks and dropping even 10C or so would let it run passive most of the time for me.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:39
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Don Lapre posted:p3 had a bare die I had Slot 1, baby
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Nov 20, 2017 22:52
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In more fun news, don't forget to apply security patches to your processors: https://security-center.intel.com/advisory.aspx?intelid=INTEL-SA-00086&languageid=en-fr
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Nov 20, 2017 22:53
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:I want to move to using linux on all my machines, since I've developed a preference for it due to setting up and running a server and using a mac. Is it easy to migrate a physical windows installation to a kvm one? I would just reinstall it, but i'm a bit worried about having to re-register my installation since I don't remember where I kept the key (and I might've used it to register the boot camp installation on my macbook...) You probably would have needed to re-register it anyway, with such a significant hardware change. Just buy cheap Win 7/8 OEM keys from eBay or SA Mart and forget about this worry. I registered my Win 10 with £5 Win 7 Pro key I bought from eBay.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:04
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I finally scored a 8700k and debating on sending it to Silicon Lottery for them to delid and find 'stable' seetings for me. They have been around for years, so it seems like a good service. If so, any recommendations on cooling after?
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Nov 20, 2017 23:13
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Big case: Scythe Fuma Small case: Corsair H110/115 If you don't care about noise 212 Evo and run the fans loud.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:19
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:In more fun news, don't forget to apply security patches to your processors: https://security-center.intel.com/advisory.aspx?intelid=INTEL-SA-00086&languageid=en-fr Why is that garbage included in the first place?
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Nov 20, 2017 23:21
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Power savings
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Nov 20, 2017 23:22
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Ihmemies posted:Why is that garbage included in the first place? All the power management stuff runs through it, though why they didn't do more to de-couple the remote management stuff from the internal components is a mystery that they are under no requirement to divulge. Some of the folks doing research on this stuff discovered a flag you can set on the motherboard that will disable most of the dangerous functionality but it isn't documented or published anywhere. It seems to be included as a requirement for government/milspec contracts. If it works as a mitigation for this they might end up forced in to disclosing and documenting it.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:25
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:I really wish they'd contact Noctua and get an NHD15 to fit. I don't want massive overclocks and dropping even 10C or so would let it run passive most of the time for me. Why does the HND15 not fit with it?
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Nov 20, 2017 23:25
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No one except I think for EK has made a heatsink or block for IHSless cooling. Noctua seems like one of the most likely to do it though if anyone else was going to.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:28
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