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This thread was always fine and is fine even with a little Clancy chat (as a treat). When it’s too much, it’s kinda clear to everyone. Two permanent EE threads are not the way, smart and active moderation is. If Donbas global powerplay chat happens, it needs to be redirected to a new thread for a few weeks and brought back when things relax. Active moderation is always preferable.
Mokotow fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 13:45
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BoldFace posted:What in God's name are they smoking in the German Navy. Unsurprisingly, Germany’s defense minister is running away from these comments as fast as she can: https://twitter.com/julianroepcke/status/1484842415714406404?s=21
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Jan 22, 2022 13:56
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We have a concern that the IK will be a Nato puppet and lead to suffering of good orthodox posters. This could result in the formation of a separatist thread to protect discussion from western homo onslaught.
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Jan 22, 2022 14:00
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There can be an IK for this thread, but they have to go back to the other euro threads.
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Jan 22, 2022 14:03
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Cinci would make good IK, but I am not sure why we would do that to him.
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Jan 22, 2022 14:12
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Is...Germany's new cabinet incompetent?
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Jan 22, 2022 14:17
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Also Putin isnt an athiest lol he's a reactionary Orthodox is that Navy Chief stupid?
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Jan 22, 2022 14:42
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BoldFace posted:What in God's name are they smoking in the German Navy. It seems like he's arguing, "China is the actual long-term threat to the American/EU global hegemony (and specifically to you folks here in India), and Russia really has more in common with us than China, so we should let Russia do what it wants with non-EU countries because then Russia will help us to contain China." Obviously that's wildly callous to the people that he wants to essentially sacrifice like chess pieces, but does it even make sense from a realpolitik perspective? Are there significant tensions between Russia and China that Germany and its allies have any chance of actually exploiting? Seems like a whole lot of wishful thinking.
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Jan 22, 2022 14:49
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Al-Saqr posted:Also Putin isnt an athiest lol he's a reactionary Orthodox is that Navy Chief stupid? Just because he goes to church on major Christian holidays and exploits Christian social teachings to score points against the West and domestic opposition, doesn't mean he actually believes in God.
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Jan 22, 2022 14:52
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Al-Saqr posted:Also Putin isnt an athiest lol he's a reactionary Orthodox is that Navy Chief stupid? I think the assumption by a lot of people is that Putin's an atheist who pretends to be Orthodox for political/cultural reasons. I tend to assume that about a lot of powerful figures, but who knows really. surf rock posted:It seems like he's arguing, "China is the actual long-term threat to the American/EU global hegemony (and specifically to you folks here in India), and Russia really has more in common with us than China, so we should let Russia do what it wants with non-EU countries because then Russia will help us to contain China." Russia and China definitely have natural points of tension, but more than driving a wedge between them, the West could absolutely stop driving Russia to depend on China. I'm not in a hurry to dive into the weeds on exactly how much of a priority we should put on that vs other priorities in the region at this moment, but our sanctions policies give Russia no choice but to look east. China kind of exploits that to give Russia lovely deals sometimes, but in terms of pure great power balancing it's still not the ideal position for the US. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 14:54
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Paladinus posted:Just because he goes to church on major Christian holidays and exploits Christian social teachings to score points against the West and domestic opposition, doesn't mean he actually believes in God. The exact same can be said of all political figures, Bush killed a million people but he still pretends to be christian this is just stating a fact. Putin self identifies as a christian and does the performative parts of it and is a social conservative so he's not an atheist. It's like if I went to the prime minister of japan as he's bowing to a shrine and saying 'hmmph you claim to be a shinto practitioner yet I propose you're doing it for kicks' there's no way to tell. Xi Jingping for example is absolutely an Atheist, he never did anything religion related and acts as such so we can safely surmise that much. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 15:01
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I've got a sort of weird question - where did the 'Ukraine' vs 'The Ukraine' come from? I know the meaning that's currently assigned for each of them (country vs some breakaway part of Russia or something like that), but how did this article become the defined difference between the two. From quick wikiing (and consulting 20-year old knowledge about Polish grammar lodged into my head) I don't think there's a equivalent in Polish for the 'the' article and the map on articles, suggests that neither Russian, nor Ukrainian have those either. So how was this article translated into English x years ago (and when did that start appearing?)?
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Jan 22, 2022 15:09
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Al-Saqr posted:The exact same can be said of all political figures, Bush killed a million people but he still pretends to be christian this is just stating a fact. Putin self identifies as a christian and does the performative parts of it and is a social conservative so he's not an atheist. There's no way to tell, true, but the cultural contexts matter. Bush is more likely to be a Christian because America is a pretty religious country. Putin is likely? possibly? an atheist due to the suppression of religion during the Soviet days and overall lower levels of religiosity in Russia. It reminds me of Ataturk, who always publicly stressed that yes, he was a good practicing Muslim, but in reality he was probably an atheist.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:24
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Paladinus posted:Just because he goes to church on major Christian holidays and exploits Christian social teachings to score points against the West and domestic opposition, doesn't mean he actually believes in God. That extremely doesn't matter. Or is the "actually believing in god" the part that bothers you about right wing religious poo poo-heads.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:29
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Is there a reliable news source to follow for developments on this current situation? I’m not interested in reading people posting Clancy chat
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Jan 22, 2022 15:29
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Al-Saqr posted:Also Putin isnt an athiest lol he's a reactionary Orthodox is that Navy Chief stupid? signs point to yes
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Jan 22, 2022 15:31
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Right wing nationalists who don't actually care about religion for religious reasons, but for the aesthetic nationalists associations are a very common thing in the new millennium. The alt-right is rotten with them for instance.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:32
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mmkay posted:I've got a sort of weird question - where did the 'Ukraine' vs 'The Ukraine' come from? I know the meaning that's currently assigned for each of them (country vs some breakaway part of Russia or something like that), but how did this article become the defined difference between the two. From quick wikiing (and consulting 20-year old knowledge about Polish grammar lodged into my head) I don't think there's a equivalent in Polish for the 'the' article and the map on articles, suggests that neither Russian, nor Ukrainian have those either. So how was this article translated into English x years ago (and when did that start appearing?)? So, the Russian (political) linguistic debate is whether the word “Ukraine” is describes a nation, or a land - “in Ukraine” is clearly the former, but “on Ukraine” (na Ukraine) is similar to “in the periphery” (na okraine). The latter was the dominant form of speech in USSR. Into English (more like Engrish) it traditionally got exported as “the Ukraine” (by analogy, “the borderlands” as opposed to, e.g., simply Bulgaria), and the proper usage (“Ukraine”) terms were established by when USSR fell, in the state foundation documents. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 15:33
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mmkay posted:I've got a sort of weird question - where did the 'Ukraine' vs 'The Ukraine' come from? I know the meaning that's currently assigned for each of them (country vs some breakaway part of Russia or something like that), but how did this article become the defined difference between the two. From quick wikiing (and consulting 20-year old knowledge about Polish grammar lodged into my head) I don't think there's a equivalent in Polish for the 'the' article and the map on articles, suggests that neither Russian, nor Ukrainian have those either. So how was this article translated into English x years ago (and when did that start appearing?)? In English, use of “the” before a place tends to denote a region (see, for instance, the Midwest or the Appalachians). Given that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and Russian Empire, it was common in the English-language press to refer to it as “the Ukraine” to denote it was a constituent, non-sovereign part of a larger whole. After Ukraine gained independence in 1991, the Associated Press officially dropped the use of “the” to indicate it was a country. The government has an official policy of requesting that English speakers not use the “the.”
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Jan 22, 2022 15:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:Is there a reliable news source to follow for developments on this current situation? I’m not interested in reading people posting Clancy chat For actual developments, instead of analytical commentary - Reuters, Associated Press.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:39
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American here but have friends with family in Ukraine - my heart is out to all my fellow EE goons. I can’t imagine the fear and anxiety all of you must be going through. poo poo sucks and I hope Putin backs down, sends everyone home, and there is no invasion / more war. Wishful thinking I know 
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Jan 22, 2022 16:03
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Cool, thank you both. I think the stuff that tripped me up when I first heard about it were countries like The United States, The Netherlands or The United Kingdom and I wasn't exactly sure how those were accepted as the proper form and that there was an issue with Ukraine.
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Jan 22, 2022 16:07
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cinci zoo sniper posted:For actual developments, instead of analytical commentary - Reuters, Associated Press. Yeah, honestly the big news organisations seem to take extra effort to filter out propaganda and other detritus from the news when it comes to EE. Conversely, straying into “independent media” territory will send you into one of the numerous agitprop traps set up by any one of the dozen governments involved.
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Jan 22, 2022 16:10
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mmkay posted:Cool, thank you both. I think the stuff that tripped me up when I first heard about it were countries like The United States, The Netherlands or The United Kingdom and I wasn't exactly sure how those were accepted as the proper form and that there was an issue with Ukraine. Oh, those are a bit different. UK and US have the definite article in their short forms due to adjective + noun formulation. The Netherlands just has "the" conventionally attached to it due to -lands association. There's no official prescription there, unlike "Ukraine" or "The Gambia".
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Jan 22, 2022 16:17
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Al-Saqr posted:The exact same can be said of all political figures, Bush killed a million people but he still pretends to be christian this is just stating a fact. Putin self identifies as a christian and does the performative parts of it and is a social conservative so he's not an atheist. It's not about his obvious failings to live a good Christian life, it's about stated and implemented policies. Justifications of all socially conservative laws are never explicitly religious, there is no public discourse on such hot topics as abortions, Soviet virulently anti-religious past is swept under the rug, nor is there a real push to convert non-Christian territories. If anything, principled religious weirdos like Sorok Sorokov are often in opposition to Putin. Putin is a status quo civil religion type of guy. During a recent meeting with the Tver governor, Putin was asked about plans to restore the church where the Orthodox bishop Philip II of Moscow was martyred by Ivan the Terrible's head of oprichniki Malyuta Skuratov. In response Putin remarked that it's just one version of the events, implying Skuratov's and by extension Ivan IV's innocence. Putin may or may not believe in God, but compared to Western religious conservatives, he deliberately tries to divorce his politics from his stated religious beliefs, and puts the nebulous Russian patriotism that encompasses all cultures and traditions in service of one motherland to the forefront.
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Jan 22, 2022 16:18
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cinci zoo sniper posted:For actual developments, instead of analytical commentary - Reuters, Associated Press. Deutsche Welle and BBC do a pretty solid job, too. \/\/\/ I think for someone who isn't deeply familiar with the context, some analysis and opinions is a necessity. You just need to stick to a source with informed experts and a balanced spread of opinions. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 16:23
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Edit: ^^ I would treat either with care.Mokotow posted:Yeah, honestly the big news organisations seem to take extra effort to filter out propaganda and other detritus from the news when it comes to EE. Conversely, straying into “independent media” territory will send you into one of the numerous agitprop traps set up by any one of the dozen governments involved. AP and Reuters in general are more like Bloomberg Terminal (not website), i.e., they provide concise descriptions of observable situation. I used to read Reuters feed raw, and it was like 200-500 articles per day for me, with incremental updates "10 dead reported in Libya explosion", "12 dead reported in Libya explosion", "14 dead reported in Libya explosion", etcetera. If you go, e.g., BBC or NYT, which are similarly big news, you'll have your news packaged for reading convenience, but at the cost of bundled opinions even in the "dry news" sections - that will happen even with publications explicitly trying to avoid that, e.g., Axios. Financial Times, in my experience, is one of the better outlets in this regard, but it's also relatively expensive and focuses on reporting on topics relevant to financial markets. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 16:25
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Solaris 2.0 posted:American here but have friends with family in Ukraine - my heart is out to all my fellow EE goons. I can’t imagine the fear and anxiety all of you must be going through. poo poo sucks and I hope Putin backs down, sends everyone home, and there is no invasion / more war. Fear not, there is very little fear or anxiety in Moscow or Kyiv. Most people don't care about this stuff until the very moment it affects them personally.
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Jan 22, 2022 16:33
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Paladinus posted:Deutsche Welle and BBC do a pretty solid job, too. Yeah I’m fine with informed analysis, not some random goon or guy on Twitter and so forth.
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Jan 22, 2022 16:55
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I nominate Putin as the threads IK. "" Databases of Ukrainian citizens on sale contain data on enterprises, driver licenses, educational degree certificates, birth certificates. Personal data includes phones, home address and other information. Most recent records from December 2021"" "" President Zelensky at the opening of the bridge over Dnipro river in Zaporizhzhia: In Donetsk and Crimea, we will proclaim a new Act of Unification "" "" The first shipment of assistance recently directed by President Biden to Ukraine arrived in Ukraine tonight. This shipment includes close to 200,000 pounds of lethal aid, including ammunition for the front line defenders of Ukraine "" WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 17:02
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There used to be another thread in GBS but it was mostly slavsquatting and funny EE memes.
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Jan 22, 2022 17:03
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Paladinus posted:Deutsche Welle and BBC do a pretty solid job, too. Fair enough, I agree with you here. I’d then suggest DW, and Meduza for local reporting.
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Jan 22, 2022 17:04
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https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1484907407918706694
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Jan 22, 2022 17:26
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It is how you say preventative measures. We still want to keep Ukraine sovereign etc etc don't be worrier!
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Jan 22, 2022 17:31
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Welp, this doesn't look good at all. There are more talks scheduled for Wednesday.
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Jan 22, 2022 17:32
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I’ve seen some rumours that U.K. embassy also is preparing for evacuation, but I haven’t been able to find a solid confirmation for that.
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Jan 22, 2022 17:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:Is there a reliable news source to follow for developments on this current situation? I’m not interested in reading people posting Clancy chat https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1484798523061456904
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Jan 22, 2022 17:56
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I’ve seen some rumours that U.K. embassy also is preparing for evacuation, but I haven’t been able to find a solid confirmation for that. I've posted a few short messages that show Brits putting 30 sf guys into the country. We theorized training anti tank people but that could be a half ruse. Or they end training early and walk back to ebassy
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Jan 22, 2022 17:58
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nurmie posted:kadyrov's been getting more and more unhinged as of late (not that the baseline of unhinged was ever low with him). i seem to recall him threatening to literally invade Ingushetia the other week? feels like some fever dream at this point I've not been following it closely but the headlines seemed to have turned from "Kadyrov demands public apologies for Instagram comments" and "Kadyrov tortures Chechens" to him sending officers to other regions to kidnap and bring him the people for him personally to torture  After nemtsovs murder there was grumbling on the fsb related media that they know who ordered it but the investigation was squashed due to being too close to the whole Kadyrov circle. Being able to get away with this must be fuelling a lot of resentment
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Jan 22, 2022 18:10
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Boris Galerkin posted:Is there a reliable news source to follow for developments on this current situation? I’m not interested in reading people posting Clancy chat Serious answer just follow Ukraine/Russia/Belarus on liveuamap, though force movements reporting will go over your head if you aren't already familiar with conflict tracking.
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Jan 22, 2022 18:12
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