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Baronjutter posted:I just want an egalitarian materialist paradise with a slight hint of xenophobia and isolationism. This was fixed for most combos. I've played xenophobe+pacifist and can confirm they get a special faction that's super isolationist (i.e. no interactions, not even wars), as opposed to trying to get you to poo poo on everyone else like they normally do. I think a similar thing happens with xenophobe+egalitarian.
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Oct 1, 2017 22:14
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Carrier Battleships are really good now and you can do pretty well with a mixed Carrier and Big Gun Battleship fleet but it really depends on what you're fighting.
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Oct 1, 2017 22:15
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Truga posted:This was fixed for most combos. I've played xenophobe+pacifist and can confirm they get a special faction that's super isolationist (i.e. no interactions, not even wars), as opposed to trying to get you to poo poo on everyone else like they normally do. I think a similar thing happens with xenophobe+egalitarian. Oh poo poo that's rad, when Utopia first came out I wrong a big long ramble about how there need to be a bunch of new factions to better handle different state ethos combos. Might do an egalitarian xenophobe materialist game next then  And it's fairly easy to add in new factions too I think, I looked at the file and it didn't seem to bad.
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Oct 1, 2017 22:19
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Jabarto posted:I'm only just getting into the game again but I seem to remember the problem here being that battleships can't hit anything smaller than a space station with their huge guns. I'd love to be wrong, though; I've always wanted to roll around with an armored fist of artillery laden battleships and crush everything at long range. Kinetic artillery and giga cannons have high miss rates against corvettes and really high evasion cruisers, but this can offset by using arc emitters instead of giga cannons and a chunk of your fleet a carrier core with PD, 1 large missile slot, and fighters/bombers. Arc emitters do not miss, even against 99% evasion. 100% accuracy/100% tracking. The thing is though any fleet combination tends to work fine if you play to a specific goal, your ethics strength (i.e. psykers and evasion builds) or can just get to a point where you equalize any disadvantage you had in quantity of ships. I prefer the all battleship build after a while for 3 reasons: high EHP means you don't generally lose anything unless its a very serious battle, you can do the hit and run retreat thing, and it plays to a strength of frontloading everything into max range shooting, so that stacking the repeatable kinetic buffs just makes it more and more effective. That being said, going with the balanced type build or the high evasion build still also works. From what I've sene there's no one cookie cutter build that's just flat better than everything else, and I think that's the point people miss. I mean there might be something that wins in hardcore MP games, but for awhile that was spamming basic corvettes forever. That's not a fun way to the play the game. Also, FWIW the different crisis seem to run different ship builds now too: the Contingency for example is all energy weapons and a metric FUCKTON of shields. Plasma is going to suffer accordingly against that. Mazz fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 22:26
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Battleships used to be a pretty terrible waste of resources and fleet strength, cruisers were the real workhorse brawlers you wished your BBs were, and I don't know if that's changed. They had (have?) atrocious hit rates against smaller ships so a swarm of plasma corvettes would eat them alive. They also have all that potential armor but don't use it effectively to tank hits instead hanging out in the back looking real pretty but generally being useless. I don't think this guide has been updated for 1.8 yet but it's what I am using and still seems pretty effective and this is his take on battleships.quote:You probably wonder why there are no battleships in the list. He does later go on to mention that he thinks they work good against the Prethoryn. I haven't tried carriers battleships at all yet though so I'm gonna build a bunch of those and see how they work since I've heard alot of praise for them.
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Oct 1, 2017 22:48
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And yet, in testing, this happened: Something like 80% of my total damage done there was arc emitters. Even with my massed kinetic artillery having a hit rate of <1%, it didn't matter. Everything seems to ignore that arc emitters don't give a poo poo about evasion or high movement. Battleships aren't strictly better than the alternatives, but they sure as gently caress work just fine if you actually build to their strengths. That's the point I've tried to get across forever, and people just seem to link the same guides over and over, glossing over the details of both my words and the rest of that guide. Also if you scroll down in said guide most of his crisis-suggested fleets are actually just battleships or cruisers, the no-battleship fleet really excels against AEs, because you take the titans and XLs out of the picture. That's a perfectly viable strategy for fighting Awakened Empires and indeed likely better than spamming battleships should you be at a huge quantity disadvantage and not already dead. But it also isn't the only good choice. Also since he doesn't have a contingency build in there, its all shields and energy weapons, arc emitters especially. Small ships will suffer accordingly yet again. FWIW: My standard late game is all battleships, and something like 2-3:1 of these builds: 2-3 Kinetics with all artillery+Giga, fire rate or weapon range admiral preferred. Stack the kinetic repeatables when you get to that point and it'll scale forever. 1 Arc emitter up front, carrier core with Flak, missiles (only small slot with good range) and strike craft. Another large in the final slot, can be whatever you want, usually another artillery. I'll vary my exact strike craft and armor/shields loadout to whatever the big threat is next. If I have to fight a human player who built for evasion, I'll change to all Arc emitters and potentially drop large weapons entirely. If you have to fight a major war before you can really hit a critical mass of battleships like this, than the other builds are totally viable and often preferable. But at 200 years before a crisis now, I don't expect that to be a problem. Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 22:56
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Axetrain posted:Battleships used to be a pretty terrible waste of resources and fleet strength, cruisers were the real workhorse brawlers you wished your BBs were, and I don't know if that's changed. They had (have?) atrocious hit rates against smaller ships so a swarm of plasma corvettes would eat them alive. They also have all that potential armor but don't use it effectively to tank hits instead hanging out in the back looking real pretty but generally being useless. I don't think this guide has been updated for 1.8 yet but it's what I am using and still seems pretty effective and this is his take on battleships. I've found carriers with arc emitters to be extremely effective in the current build but my current game hasn't reached a crisis yet. I've found that my non-PD Destroyers and Interceptor Corvettes have been the most fragile ships in my fleet. Both PD Destroyers and Torpedo Boat Corvettes have been pretty effective and survivable as a screen for my Battleships and Cruisers.
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Oct 1, 2017 23:27
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I guess I'll try more battleship fleets then, especially arc emitters . I posted that guide because It's the only in depth build by build guide I'm aware of and I've seen alot of "how do I build my fleets" posts by goons, myself included.
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Oct 1, 2017 23:31
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Axetrain posted:I guess I'll try more battleship fleets then, especially arc emitters . I posted that guide because It's the only in depth build by build guide I'm aware of and I've seen alot of "how do I build my fleets" posts by goons, myself included. Yeah I'm sorry if it came off as snappy, but you're not the first person to shoot down battleship builds because of the steam/reddit guides. For what it's worth, before you can hit like ~70k worth of fleet power you don't really have the critical mass you need to just smash people in the long range portion of the fight. That, and as mentioned in the guide the small-mix fleet is pretty optimal vs AE because they come with Titans and lots of XL slots, which you can negate. You have to approach the situation with what you have/can build, so there are times where all cruisers or the steam guide builds make more sense. I'm just trying to get out there that all battleships is perfectly viable if you actually build them for what they're good at. And that's generally long range murdering. Mixing them into smaller fleets tends to waste this, since half of your fleet is good at one thing and the other half another. Also, I just beat a contingency crisis with the above layout, I was at 200k to their 250k big fleets, and I think ended around 175k after all 4 core worlds. I set up 5-6 shipyards for battleship production and throw an admiral governor on that sector though, so I can queue up losses pretty quickly relative to just building normal battleships. EDIT: Also while Arc Emitters are very good against high evasion, their weakness is that their damage roll is anywhere from 0-200, meaning they might do very little per hit. This is bad against large ships since they'll just tank that when you need them not to be, so going all Arc Emitters against heavier fleets can be problematic. Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 23:34
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Tangentally related, but what strength fleet should you have before going after a Fallen Empire? I'm building up to 2 ~35-40k fleets and I have Galactic Contender, will that be enough?
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Oct 1, 2017 23:56
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Soup du Jour posted:Tangentally related, but what strength fleet should you have before going after a Fallen Empire? I'm building up to 2 ~35-40k fleets and I have Galactic Contender, will that be enough? You should be pretty comfortable at 80k+, but be careful as they have a lot of military stations that can sway things. Best bet is to build up a little more then try to scout out their concentrations before jumping in. if you're larger than them they won't come after you right away, or they'll shoot for a open planet and you can kill their fleet away from their bases. Also occasionally they'll merge all their fleets together once war is declared, which can be problematic depending on how many they spawned with. Awakened empires are different and often much, much stronger, so be careful about which is which. EDIT: VVVV Yikes, they might've stepped it up like the crisis Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 00:00
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Just poked a fallen empire (settled near them) and had to contend with a 125k fleet vs. my 85k one + Galactic Contender. Went poorly.
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Oct 2, 2017 00:28
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So I was playing a game as a fanatic pacifist/egalitarian the other day and ran into a bit of a snag. A race adjacent to me was made up of Democratic Crusaders (or whatever that is called) and they loved me since I was a moral democracy, but I wasn't able to form a federation with them since we had different outlooks on war (I had a 40something penalty to relations since I didn't like aggressive war declarations). Are pacifists not able to start/join federations with non-pacifists? I had kind of assumed that they would be all about participating in an intergalactic UN, but nothing doing it seems :/.
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Oct 2, 2017 00:28
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:So I was playing a game as a fanatic pacifist/egalitarian the other day and ran into a bit of a snag. A race adjacent to me was made up of Democratic Crusaders (or whatever that is called) and they loved me since I was a moral democracy, but I wasn't able to form a federation with them since we had different outlooks on war (I had a 40something penalty to relations since I didn't like aggressive war declarations). You probably default to "defensive wars only" while the Crusaders can do liberation wars or something. Makes sense that you guys disagree, really, a fanatic pacifist would be avoiding any and all conflict possible while the Democratic Crusaders want to, well, crusade. If you want to get rid of the malus, go change your war policy (if you can, I think Fanatic Pacifists might be locked into defensive wars only no matter what).
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Oct 2, 2017 00:37
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Mazz posted:That, and as mentioned in the guide the small-mix fleet is pretty optimal vs AE because they come with Titans and lots of XL slots, which you can negate. And I want to add, you don't have to negate it with build changes either; by baiting the AI into a fight where you're starting behind their fleet, you dodge pretty much all of that long range XL mount fire. Battleship heavy fleet comps are really good.
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Oct 2, 2017 00:57
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I haven't fiddled with it cause I'm lazy but is it viable to just split your fleets in two: shield regenning cruiser bait to charge in first to soak up long distance fire and force close combat and then battleships in a second group to engage and stay at long range?
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Oct 2, 2017 01:01
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Crazycryodude posted:You probably default to "defensive wars only" while the Crusaders can do liberation wars or something. Makes sense that you guys disagree, really, a fanatic pacifist would be avoiding any and all conflict possible while the Democratic Crusaders want to, well, crusade. True, and thank you! Is that a problem pacifists frequently run into in this game (pacifists being excluded from federations due to issues with war policy), or does that really only become a thing when they are interacting with militarist states?
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Oct 2, 2017 01:08
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Mister Adequate posted:http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1153460015 This is cool and I'd be p psyched to see more poo poo like this. It'd be even better if the fish actually swam
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Oct 2, 2017 01:09
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:True, and thank you! It depends on the galaxy empire population, but outside of threat boosting it above the malus, your going to sit unfederated in a waring galaxy
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Oct 2, 2017 01:10
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:So I was playing a game as a fanatic pacifist/egalitarian the other day and ran into a bit of a snag. A race adjacent to me was made up of Democratic Crusaders (or whatever that is called) and they loved me since I was a moral democracy, but I wasn't able to form a federation with them since we had different outlooks on war (I had a 40something penalty to relations since I didn't like aggressive war declarations). You're basically France in 2003 asking if they can set up a system where they can veto the US rolling into Iraq. Eej posted:I haven't fiddled with it cause I'm lazy but is it viable to just split your fleets in two: shield regenning cruiser bait to charge in first to soak up long distance fire and force close combat and then battleships in a second group to engage and stay at long range? Should be, but A) It's going to require a lot of micro and B) You're probably not actually going to gain anything over just spending the cruiser minerals on additional battleships instead. However, if you play with this mod http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=790455347 or one like it, the game is changed gentlegoon. You don't need to fanny around with individual fleets because you can just build ships according to what you desire they do in battle. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 01:16
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Battleships are bad because L / XL weapons can't hit small targets. Also, trucks are bad against fire because bucket lifts are only good for fixing power lines.
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Oct 2, 2017 01:30
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Yo is the combat in Stellaris still like an inferior CK2 with added micro, in that you still can only tell your ships to do one thing?
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Oct 2, 2017 01:32
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Yo is the combat in Stellaris still like an inferior CK2 with added micro, in that you still can only tell your ships to do one thing? yes
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Oct 2, 2017 01:34
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So Wiz has apparently included an easter egg for the Star Citizen thread crowd. Anyone have any idea what this might be?
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Oct 2, 2017 01:47
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Anticheese posted:So Wiz has apparently included an easter egg for the Star Citizen thread crowd. There's a star system called Stimsis.
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Oct 2, 2017 01:48
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Milky Moor posted:I saw a Stimsis system.
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Oct 2, 2017 01:49
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Nice. I suppose I've gotta play some fanatic purifiers searching for that system now. 
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Oct 2, 2017 01:50
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It seems really weird that robots auto upgrade to droids which auto upgrade to sythns. What I want to keep some non-sapient robots around as servants? Why can't I have a planet where there was a 50/50 mix of synths with full citizenship rights and droids worker/servants to make them happy? Is there any mod that addresses this?
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Oct 2, 2017 02:27
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Baronjutter posted:It seems really weird that robots auto upgrade to droids which auto upgrade to sythns. What I want to keep some non-sapient robots around as servants? Why can't I have a planet where there was a 50/50 mix of synths with full citizenship rights and droids worker/servants to make them happy? Is there any mod that addresses this? It's also weird that it takes a really expensive project to upgrade from one type of robot/droid/synth to a slightly different kind, like one that is 10% better at mining, but it's apparently free to instantly upgrade every robot in your empire to AI sentience.
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Oct 2, 2017 02:31
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vyelkin posted:It's also weird that it takes a really expensive project to upgrade from one type of robot/droid/synth to a slightly different kind, like one that is 10% better at mining, but it's apparently free to instantly upgrade every robot in your empire to AI sentience. Yeah robomodding needs another pass. I think they took the wrong approach making it just like bio-modding but using engineering research instead of society. It should be more like upgrading ships or buildings, just cost some minerals/energy and be fairly quick and doable per-pop. Upgrading from droids to synths though could totally be a more research based system. But I really want to be able to keep droids around even when I get synths. Synths are citizens and people but droids/robots specialized to do one thing and stay in one place are really useful. Even in a fully synthetic society why wouldn't sapient synths still use robots/droids for mindless labour?
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Oct 2, 2017 02:33
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 A planet with just 6 tiles  . I didn't even know they could get this small.
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Oct 2, 2017 03:16
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Axetrain posted:
When the game released it was quite normal to get planets like that, tons of useless junk planets not worth colonizing. I think they changed the minimum to 12 so it's really weird to see a 6.
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Oct 2, 2017 03:28
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The only real small planet I've seen recently started life as a barren planet and got the anomaly ("Grimacing", I think?) that lets your scientist expend a few hundred energy to try and instantly terraform it. It was a size 6, actually, maybe that's what happened to that one? AI came along and did the event?
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Oct 2, 2017 03:30
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Crazycryodude posted:The only real small planet I've seen recently started life as a barren planet and got the anomaly ("Grimacing", I think?) that lets your scientist expend a few hundred energy to try and instantly terraform it. It was a size 6, actually, maybe that's what happened to that one? AI came along and did the event? Possible, I just found this in some freshly conquered territory.
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Oct 2, 2017 03:34
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Baronjutter posted:When the game released it was quite normal to get planets like that, tons of useless junk planets not worth colonizing. I think they changed the minimum to 12 so it's really weird to see a 6. I got a 7 from an event that turned a barren into a machine planet.
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Oct 2, 2017 04:44
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Axetrain posted:
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Oct 2, 2017 04:55
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So I uploaded some neural patterns into synths and blessed them to colonize a system in our borders. The system they chose was right next to the Enigmatic Fortress... that's uh, an interesting development.
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Oct 2, 2017 05:04
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Baronjutter posted:So I uploaded some neural patterns into synths and blessed them to colonize a system in our borders. The system they chose was right next to the Enigmatic Fortress... that's uh, an interesting development. "what part of 'please respect our privacy' do you not understand"
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Oct 2, 2017 05:07
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Ugh. Gating the 2nd level genetic ascension path behind a rare tech makes me want to die. I qualify to draw targeted gene expressions, but after five techs without it appearing I decided to savescum until it appeared. That was the idea, anyway. 20 loads later, it still hasn't appeared.
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Oct 2, 2017 06:27
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Baronjutter posted:So I uploaded some neural patterns into synths and blessed them to colonize a system in our borders. The system they chose was right next to the Enigmatic Fortress... that's uh, an interesting development. pretty good decision on their part. now anyone else who wants them sweet sweet shields/engines or useless loving enconder/decoders will have a much harder time doing it.
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Oct 2, 2017 06:31
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