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sneakyfrog posted:i don't think anything is wrong with bashing the fash, i just don't like conflating folks who have say some slightly conservative leanings with outright Nazis, its like religion, there are some folks who consider themselves spiritual people and they don't really equate well with the FYGM evangelicals at all. just seems like you should judge individuals based on their own merits or flaws rather than just grouping everyone in nice neat bundles when humans just don't work that way. If conservatives are still approving of the direction this is going, which overwhelmingly they do, and they are still voting for people who want to do nazi poo poo, which overwhelmingly they are, I'm perfectly comfortable lumping them in with the grand wizards. Like those kids crying about the consequences they faced after the Charlottesville pictures went up. Don't run around seig heiling and then cry when people treat you like a nazi.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:14
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purple death ray posted:Lol how many people do the 4chan frog nazis have to mass murder before you dipshits stop writing them off as internet trolls? Who are you even talking to?
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Jun 8, 2018 15:24
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definitely not disagreeing with you there, but there are also folks on either side of the seemingly impassible Conservative/Liberal rift that find that behavior and approval of that behavior morally repugnant. I mean i agree with you in the sense that silence is consent, and if people are acting like fucktwats you should speak the gently caress up at a minimum. It really doesn't help though that both facets of the issue paint the other one as the outright enemy of all things good. its a lovely state of affairs to be sure, but its kind of eliminating any dialogue or the ability for folks to be reasonable human beings.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:25
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Paladinus posted:Who are you even talking to? You
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Jun 8, 2018 15:33
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lol well that's your first mistake
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Jun 8, 2018 15:35
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sneakyfrog posted:definitely not disagreeing with you there, but there are also folks on either side of the seemingly impassible Conservative/Liberal rift that find that behavior and approval of that behavior morally repugnant. I mean i agree with you in the sense that silence is consent, and if people are acting like fucktwats you should speak the gently caress up at a minimum. You're still equivocating "people who want to kill all the minorities" and "people who want to stop them from killing all the minorities". If they want dialogue or to be reasonable human beings they need to not want to kill all the minorities first. It's a pretty low bar to clear but here we are. They've successfully pushed the dialogue so far back that we're having to relitigate basic human rights all over again.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:37
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Why? I've literally said that it's good that racist dipshits as a rule are not allowed on SA. I don't know what else we can do as a comedy forum to fight racism, honestly.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:39
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purple death ray posted:You're still equivocating "people who want to kill all the minorities" and "people who want to stop them from killing all the minorities".
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Jun 8, 2018 15:51
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i don't think i am, though i could be wrong, there are plenty of lovely conservatives and plenty of lovely liberals. the more extreme on either side are outright garbage people. Hell i got caught up in super lefty circles for a while and there were plenty of folks who were perfectly happy discussing at what point you deserve a guillotine for being too successful, not to mention the "progressive" TERF brigade. I don't think its just a flat one side or the other that's bad, there are just plenty of individuals that identify as Conservative or Liberal that are just horrible examples of human beings regardless of their belief process. Im not just going to be like CONSERVATIVES BAD or LIBERALS BAD just because there is a hell of a lot of grey area in between. Hell my old captain from when i was in the military is a great example of a born and raised southern conservative redneck, church 3 times a week votes republican usually who literally cant stand what the hell the conservatives are doing, but cant even move slightly left due to the overwhelming self righteous judgement of folks who consider themselves lefty or liberal, or the way his fellow conservative now treat him like a commie traitor for even presuming that they could be incorrect about things. lotta folks caught in the middle because they don't perfectly match the purity test required to be a true believer for whatever side. its pretty much the main reason why i cant ever say what direction i lean because im too liberal for conservatives and too conservative for the liberals.
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Jun 8, 2018 15:52
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Are you still talking about the forums? Please link the active posters you think want to "kill all the minorities". This is hard because, well, they don't and you're being unnecessarily uncharitable. If you're talking about the world at large, okay, but it's hosed anyway and our actions here on the comedy forum aren't going to fix it. I think this forum is better suited to laughing as much as we can while it burns than organizing meaningful resistance. I'm happy to ban posters who do want to kill all the minorities though so feel free to report them if you find them. Fair enough I will try to contain my outrage to forum specific situations. Like this guy Paladinus posted:Why? I've literally said that it's good that racist dipshits as a rule are not allowed on SA. I don't know what else we can do as a comedy forum to fight racism, honestly. Don't feel like you gotta answer that for real, I think I should probably chill now and stop posting cause it's Friday and I don't need to get bent out of shape on a Friday. I don't think any of yall are nazis but you are vastly overestimating how reasonable you can expect them to be.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:07
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sneakyfrog posted:Hell my old captain from when i was in the military is a great example of a born and raised southern conservative redneck, church 3 times a week votes republican usually who literally cant stand what the hell the conservatives are doing, but cant even move slightly left due to the overwhelming self righteous judgement of folks who consider themselves lefty or liberal What a loving coward, abandoning moral convictions out of fear of mean words.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:12
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i don't think you should get bent out of shape, its a good conversation. the truth though is that most online alt right bullshit artists are there to stir the pot up for the lols, then you get the legitimate folks with ulterior motives encouraging it. Hell half the channers IRL would be like that one kid that punked out the second Antifa challenged them on what they were doing. proper old school WS folks have used the poo poo out of that movement to create this 2nd wave neo-magachud crew of varying degrees of seriousness. Some of them legitimately just do it because "triggering the libs" is the most important thing in their deficient syphilitic brains. other ones are straight up being groomed by old school skins, and white supremacy groups. I definitely don't believe that they should have a platform in any way, but a good portion of them really don't understand what the gently caress they are doing until consequences bitchslap the poo poo out of them.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:16
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Brain Curry posted:What a loving coward, abandoning moral convictions out of fear of mean words. nah. dude just thinks everyone is stupid now. harsh words don't make a dent in that man, he was just disappointed in the stupid groupthink because i think he expected better.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:18
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Paladinus posted:No-no, it's okay, it's okay. I hope you are able to live a normal life someday. It must be spooky to live in a world where Donald Jay Trump and the Leper Steve are two nazi masterminds, and not just two semi-senile elderly citizens who happen to have support of literally a couple of thousands of trolls on top of millions of regular Republican voters, who vote R no matter what. That terrible world of being extremely online all the time.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:23
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Paladinus posted:No-no, it's okay, it's okay. I hope you are able to live a normal life someday. It must be spooky to live in a world where Donald Jay Trump and the Leper Steve are two nazi masterminds, and not just two semi-senile elderly citizens who happen to have support of literally a couple of thousands of trolls on top of millions of regular Republican voters, who vote R no matter what. That terrible world of being extremely online all the time. Maybe I’m mis reading you here, but it sure does seem like you put a lot of effort into saying “I disagree” in the most patronizing and dismissive way possible.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:38
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I'm so glad people are finally pushing back against the extremists who try to shut down dialogue. I've been seeing it all over the forums lately, and it gives me a little hope. Remember, even Bernie believes in taking the pragmatic route to success, even if he talks a fairly far left position: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/us/politics/as-mayor-bernie-sanders-was-more-pragmatic-than-socialist.html
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Jun 8, 2018 16:38
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Brain Curry posted:What a loving coward, abandoning moral convictions out of fear of mean words. TIL that not wanting to join a group that hates the fact that you exist is "fear of mean words" pray tell, what would that dude joining a leftist advocacy group accomplish except for just giving them a new Great Satan to accuse of being a nazi infiltrator
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Jun 8, 2018 16:40
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at the end of the day everyone is still stuck in this poo poo together is all, and unless you learn to live with each other with respect its always going to be some flavor of apartheid vs fully automated luxury gay space communism
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Jun 8, 2018 16:43
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:TIL that not wanting to join a group that hates the fact that you exist is "fear of mean words" you are like, the single biggest rube on this website which is astonishing
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Jun 8, 2018 16:56
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Brain Curry posted:What a loving coward, abandoning moral convictions out of fear of mean words. That’s not the real reason that’s just what he says. Being mean to someone has never moved someone politically. It’s just an excuse to be lovely without having to own up to it.
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Jun 8, 2018 16:57
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hey paladinus i consistently like your posts but not in this situation i think most of the "kill all the minorities" accusations are too extreme but i hope you will agree: plenty of right-wing politicians like Trump himself have said extremely racist stuff. the not-really-racist members of their fan club tend to excuse it by saying stuff like: - my economic issue (frequently "less taxes," "no single payer healthcare," or "voucher system") is more important - no abortion is more important - no gun control is more important - yes but that's their free speech the really racist fans, of course, say the kill all minorities poo poo and stuff like that. this is a less mainstream attitude. probably no one who's seriously doing politics actually wants this: they want the ability to keep committing wage theft and stuff, which is not outwardly racist but disproportionately affects minorities -- but i don't think actual genocide is a thing the political mainstream wants right now. it's fairly hosed that mainstream politicians can just outwardly, visibly court anti-LGBT dudes and racists; yes left-wing politicians can do this too, but right-wing US politicians have policy stances that give evangelicals more power (this is what the voucher system really does), anti-lgbt people and racists more power (see the cake decision) and this earns them a lot of support. appealing to this constituency should not be morally OK. then you can go read Breitbart, newspaper of Trump's old strategist, and like, this is transparently vile racist and transphobic poo poo -- it's terrible that a guy who's associated with this stuff can be president. imho saying "well, it's cool that these guys are trying to curry favor with racists -- i like having less taxes and will ignore that" is imho economically rational but morally indefensible. it's really hosed that people feel justified in saying that, and i think it just seems normal because everyone else is doing. this is not super different from how american politics have looked for the entirety of US history. but the US is a country where it was legal to hold slaves and later to segregate out black people and deny them poo poo, and there's still a giant gap in outcomes for black people vs white people that's easiest explained with institutional racism. just because this is the way things used to be doesn't mean that it's fine. basically america has always been a white-supremacist country and unfortunately it's very difficult to actually oppose that in any practical way, but saying "i don't see any literal KKK members and nazis around" is not a very real way of answering the accusation. unfortunately people will go into histrionics as if nazis were literally marching in the streets outside their house. everyone's affected by this -- i'm gay and a lot of my friends are gay and yes it's worse to be gay in post-Trump America -- but not in that way. it's worse in ways that are hard to articulate but basically in line with "we elected a guy who made friends with vile homophobes, what did you expect from his fan club?"
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Jun 8, 2018 17:00
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I always thought that the "everyone who disagrees with my exact political position is a literal Nazi" mentality was some dumb undergrad stereotype, but here it is in the flesh. That's depressing. It's perfectly possible to permit dialogue and also ban dipshits, not everyone from the other side of the political fence is in fact a totalitarian extremist and most people are, in fact, reasonable. In fact I've found SA to be, outside of DND, surprisingly tolerant of posters who not only have questionable views but also express them in a manner designed to get a maximum rise out of people. You can't say that people like FAROOQ and PCOS Bill weren't given enough chances before they were finally shown the door, and we put up with ultra-left TERFs like Deceitful Penguin because, dumb and unpleasant as his opinions are, the forums are more colourful for them and at least we have something to laugh at/argue with. Otherwise we end up like mainstream social media echo chambers where everyone congratulates each other for being correct all the time and dissent is followed by a swift blocking. Or we could retreat behind our slogans, assume anyone not with us is with the enemy, bellow our opinions with our fingers in our ears, and wonder why nobody listens to us any more. That's an option too I guess.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:05
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Axeman Jim posted:I always thought that the "everyone who disagrees with my exact political position is a literal Nazi" mentality was some dumb undergrad stereotype, but here it is in the flesh. That's depressing. Lol you are a literal child. Take a political class or something as this post is painful in how childish and half baked it is.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:06
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Ah, option B then.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:08
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Axeman Jim posted:Ah, option B then. Yes my controversial slogan please learn anything about politics before talking about them. Or stop watching South Park and forming your opinions from there.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:09
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol you are a literal child. Take a political class or something as this post is painful in how childish and half baked it is.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:09
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:he's right He literally said nothing of substance, just a bunch of vague nonsense. So I can see the appeal. Edit: My advice is if your going to get taken in by mindless rhetoric, at least pick something less bland. CharlestheHammer has a new favorite as of 17:12 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 17:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol you are a literal child. Take a political class or something as this post is painful in how childish and half baked it is. 
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Jun 8, 2018 17:12
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I’m sorry I should have said In conclusion SA is a land of contrasts.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol you are a literal child. Take a political class or something as this post is painful in how childish and half baked it is. Your position is childish and simplistic, unlike mine, in which everyone who doesn't share my views is a literal rapist and murderer salivating for full fascism now.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:15
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If you think that the idea of political nuance comes from South Park then you may wish to pause before suggesting other people learn about politics.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:18
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purple death ray posted:Fair enough I will try to contain my outrage to forum specific situations. Like this guy It's all good. My main point was that letting peoples' dumb and inconsequential opinions get to you is not a healthy thing. All unironic and ironic racists are being banned, so the rest is just splitting hairs.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:18
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Axeman Jim posted:If you think that the idea of political nuance comes from South Park then you may wish to pause before suggesting other people learn about politics. Political nuance isn’t real and the belief it is is toxic as gently caress. Politics aren’t a sport we’re you lose and whatever it’s a real thing with real consequences.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:20
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I especially liked that he talked about the forums with specifics instead of, I dunno, all of society's ills. I don't care about the downfall of the american hegemony outside of its effects on the forums. This is my nation. America is gonna burn and that's okay as long as GBS is funny. 
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Jun 8, 2018 17:24
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The concept that TRUE political belief only exists at the extreme ends of the spectrum is pretty loving rich, when its those concepts that are the most unhelpful and divisive and basically only serve whomever is running the show while everyone is too busy litmus testing each other for whether or not folks are worthy rather than serving the the common good in any slight way.  e: Jeffrey you seem like a good egg, its a nice change of pace from folks who don't want any kind of dialogue whatsoever if it conflicts with their worldview. thanks pal. TehRedWheelbarrow has a new favorite as of 17:33 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 17:29
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CharlestheHammer posted:Political nuance isn’t real Like, it's fine to have an opinion as dumb as this, really it is, but it's just not a very helpful one for setting the posting rules for an internet comedy forum.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:31
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CharlestheHammer posted:That’s not the real reason that’s just what he says. Being mean to someone has never moved someone politically. It’s just an excuse to be lovely without having to own up to it.  It’s such a stupid excuse because even if it were true it’s the mindset of an amoral coward.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:36
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i dunno friends, if folks are going to judge me based on some ideology that i disagree with im really not going to bend over backwards to get their approval, im just going to do my own thing  not sure where y'all are getting the coward crap from.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:39
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sneakyfrog posted:i dunno friends, if folks are going to judge me based on some ideology that i disagree with im really not going to bend over backwards to get their approval, im just going to do my own thing If someone says they disagree with something strongly but support people who do it anyways because other people might potentially say something mean about them they're cowards. As a historical example: "Well I don't agree with keeping slaves, but the slave owners are just so nice to me personally unlike those rabble-rousing abolitionists that I'll vote for them"- that person is a loving coward and slavery supporter. Saying you don't believe or agree with something isn't some sort of magic phrase that absolves you for supporting people who do.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:43
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sneakyfrog posted:i dunno friends, if folks are going to judge me based on some ideology that i disagree with im really not going to bend over backwards to get their approval, im just going to do my own thing quote:but cant even move slightly left due to the overwhelming self righteous judgement of folks who consider themselves lefty or liberal You didn’t mention disagreeing with their politics or actions, just their self-righteous judgement. This implies your friend is working against things he feels are right to own the libs.
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Jun 8, 2018 17:44
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