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Jun 4, 2018 15:59
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Yes, his point is that the presence of a woman on the cover of the novel Jane Eyre, by Charlotte Brontë, is what's going to deter males from buying that edition (as opposed to all those other Jane Eyre covers that don't have one), not that the woman looks like an escapee from a teenaged girl's DeviantArt gallery. ty e: to expand— Doc Fission posted:I wanted to go back to this because it was dumb. There are loads of book covers featuring men that inexplicably don't alienate women readers. If boys don't want to read books with GIRLS on the COVER that's a problem with boys, not the book or an illustration or whatever the gently caress I chose the word "girly" deliberately as opposed to "feminine" or "womanish" or what-have-you. You and I both live in a commercial culture where products are marketed to female children through certain identifiable signs. Whether those signs are specially or naturally appealing to girls is beside the point. In our culture, those signs convey: "This product is for you, a 9- to 14-year-old girl, and not for you, everybody else." I don't like it, but it's been a real and thoroughly documented phenomenon for at least a century. Anyone who claims otherwise, or that those book covers are not a prime example, is probably trying to score cheap points in an Internet argument. Eugene V. Dubstep fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 16:09
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Mrenda posted:Eh, often solitary people. Sometimes down-and-outs. Navigating their personal ambition or lack of it, content or lacking contentment with their way and knowing or not knowing it (Molloy had this parallel.) An engagement with finding satisfaction in the world, or at least satisfaction in their personal understanding of thought and meaning. Existentialism would be ok, Beckett was painted as nihilistic but I'm not sure I buy him as straight-up nihilism. It seemed more hedonism than nihilism to me, however close they may be. Nothing as everything, personal experience amounting to entireties of the world, or limited, personal worlds. Maybe try V. by Thomas Pynchon? Half is about a down-and-out trying to find his place in the world (and the absurdity of that quest) while the other half is about a man investigating a mysterious woman only referred to in his father's diaries as V., who may or may not be apart of global conspiracies, and the absurdity in trying to understand such things. Many of the chapters also work as self-contained stories, so there's a lot of structural intrigue in addition to the literal mysteries and philosophical tangents. And, as it happens, the French edition has one of my favorite book covers, but it's a little   Some others: Walker Percy, especially his novel The Moviegoer; it fits in with a lot of Flannery O'Connor's stories; and I'll second the Camus and Dostoevsky recommendations, especially Notes from Underground. I'd say to go ahead and read A Portrait of the Artist as Young Man, it's not nearly as daunting as his other novels while being similar to that voice and style. If you haven't read DFW, The Broom of the System also fits at lot of what you want, but many do find him insufferable.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:19
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On the other hand, think about some poor 13 year old hot topic girl reading Wuthering Heights because it has a spooky Burtonesque cover
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Jun 4, 2018 16:22
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Seconding the Eimear McBride recommendation.
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Jun 4, 2018 16:50
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:I chose the word "girly" deliberately as opposed to "feminine" or "womanish" or what-have-you. You and I both live in a commercial culture where products are marketed to female children through certain identifiable signs. Whether those signs are specially or naturally appealing to girls is beside the point. In our culture, those signs convey: "This product is for you, a 9- to 14-year-old girl, and not for you, everybody else." I don't like it, but it's been a real and thoroughly documented phenomenon for at least a century. Anyone who claims otherwise, or that those book covers are not a prime example, is probably trying to score cheap points in an Internet argument. Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 16:55
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Franchescanado posted:I agree with all these points, I just think that the font really disrupts the rest of the flow. I think that cleaning up the font would be better. Maybe put them in the pink boxes instead of cluttered randomly at the top. It's already a chaotic image, and I think it needs something to pull it back and give it some sense of grounding. 
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Jun 4, 2018 20:50
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Franchescanado posted:I agree with all these points, I just think that the font really disrupts the rest of the flow. I think that cleaning up the font would be better. Maybe put them in the pink boxes instead of cluttered randomly at the top. It's already a chaotic image, and I think it needs something to pull it back and give it some sense of grounding.     
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Jun 4, 2018 23:38
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Everyone knows that cover design has already been perfected by Reclam.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:40
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That cover of Moscow to the end of the line is ridiculously sick
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Jun 4, 2018 23:48
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I'm liking the look of Confessions of a Mask of Zorro there as well
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Jun 4, 2018 23:49
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It's such a good title really. A mask can't confess, its entire function goes against the idea of confessing.
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Jun 5, 2018 00:05
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Franchescanado posted:I am curious, if anyone cares to post them, to see what are some of the lit thread's favorite covers of books. this one's one of a kind i'm afraid 
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Jun 5, 2018 00:41
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That apes of god cover is cool, iirc lewis did all the drawings for it himself.
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Jun 5, 2018 01:09
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A human heart posted:That apes of god cover is cool, iirc lewis did all the drawings for it himself. He did. I'm a big fan of the self-portrait he used for Tarr and the Apes of God cover
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Jun 5, 2018 01:24
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CestMoi posted:That cover of Moscow to the end of the line is ridiculously sick That book rules. I feel slightly woozy just thinking about it
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Jun 5, 2018 09:54
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Jun 5, 2018 14:54
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Clearly
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Jun 5, 2018 15:05
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Salinger has made me into an incel, send help
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Jun 5, 2018 15:32
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That article sure is something
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Jun 5, 2018 15:36
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Came here to post that one, it's pretty much everything I think is wrong with the current cultural moment. There's a really pernicious kind of literary iconoclast that is essentially trying to find any justification they can to disassemble the canon and rebuild it in their own image. This article is just violent video game panic dressed up as a lame justification for denigrating authors the writer doesn't find personally interesting or useful. Books have no responsibility to display what you think is proper morality or behavior. If you think they do, then lock your arms with the conservative book-burners you resemble so much and march directly into the sea. Edit: What's with these people inevitably wagging their fingers about the uncomfortable sympathies you feel in Lolita and placing David Foster Wallace as the north star of the Big White Bad Literature Man? Squashing Machine fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 15:52
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Squashing Machine posted:Edit: What's with these people inevitably wagging their fingers about the uncomfortable sympathies you feel in Lolita and placing David Foster Wallace as the north star of the Big White Bad Literature Man? because americans don't understand that a protagonist isn't necessarily morally good and a hero because they read graphic novels and download mp3 files to have someone read to them because they are used to their teacher reading to them at with funny voices during library period
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Jun 5, 2018 16:23
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DFW is apparently popular among a specific sort of douchey guy apparently. Therefore DFW himself represents every bad date a woman has ever had.
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Jun 5, 2018 16:30
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Heath posted:DFW is apparently popular among a specific sort of douchey guy apparently. Therefore DFW himself represents every bad date a woman has ever had. I've never understood this because he really advocates for empathy in his work and treating everyone as having experiences that you can't possibly understand without really engaging with them.
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Jun 5, 2018 16:35
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Cloks posted:I've never understood this because he really advocates for empathy in his work and treating everyone as having experiences that you can't possibly understand without really engaging with them. https://jezebel.com/mary-karr-reminds-the-world-that-david-foster-wallace-a-1825799769 edit: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/the-world-still-spins-around-male-genius/559925/ Mel Mudkiper posted:To be fair he was exceptionally emotionally abusive and straight up stalked a woman for years Seldom Posts fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 16:41
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Heath posted:DFW is apparently popular among a specific sort of douchey guy apparently. Therefore DFW himself represents every bad date a woman has ever had. To be fair he was exceptionally emotionally abusive and straight up stalked a woman for years
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Jun 5, 2018 16:45
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Squashing Machine posted:Came here to post that one, it's pretty much everything I think is wrong with the current cultural moment. There's a really pernicious kind of literary iconoclast that is essentially trying to find any justification they can to disassemble the canon and rebuild it in their own image. This article is just violent video game panic dressed up as a lame justification for denigrating authors the writer doesn't find personally interesting or useful. If by "the current cultural moment" you mean the hottest, shittiest takes then yes I agree. Otherwise I'd say that there are plenty of valid critiques of "the canon" concerned with the sociological and cultural context from which it emerged.
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Jun 5, 2018 16:46
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Squashing Machine posted:Came here to post that one, it's pretty much everything I think is wrong with the current cultural moment. You my friend are the current cultural moment: mediocre, unoriginal and angry at clickbait trash
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Jun 5, 2018 17:02
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Boatswain posted:If by "the current cultural moment" you mean the hottest, shittiest takes then yes I agree. Otherwise I'd say that there are plenty of valid critiques of "the canon" concerned with the sociological and cultural context from which it emerged. suck my whole rear end
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Jun 5, 2018 17:07
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Boatswain posted:If by "the current cultural moment" you mean the hottest, shittiest takes then yes I agree. Otherwise I'd say that there are plenty of valid critiques of "the canon" concerned with the sociological and cultural context from which it emerged. Criticism of the canon and how it gets chosen is completely fine, but I feel like I've definitely seen a creep of a kind of moralistic imperative in the criticism from a growing number of people. I've heard similar shots taken at Nabakov and Flannery O'Connor within my own circle, which seem to have everything to do with them casting sympathies in their writing at people these critics think should be relegated to two-dimensional nonpersonhood, for fear that there might be anything complex or thoughtworthy about them. What they seem to want is religious tracts for secular ideologies.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:07
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J_RBG posted:You my friend are the current cultural moment: mediocre, unoriginal and angry at clickbait trash Not sure where this is coming from but, hey, gently caress you too, buddy.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:08
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chernobyl kinsman posted:suck my whole rear end They're right.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:19
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It's because excessive Twitter use has squeezed subtlety and nuance out of them to the point that they literally think in sanctimonious knee-jerk quips.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:20
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Squashing Machine posted:Came here to post that one, it's pretty much everything I think is wrong with the current cultural moment. There's a really pernicious kind of literary iconoclast that is essentially trying to find any justification they can to disassemble the canon and rebuild it in their own image. This article is just violent video game panic dressed up as a lame justification for denigrating authors the writer doesn't find personally interesting or useful. You're the guy that likes 12 Rules for Life so I'm not sure you should be in the literature thread.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:24
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Nanomashoes posted:You're the guy that likes 12 Rules for Life so I'm not sure you should be in the literature thread. Haven't read it, but thanks for stalking me around instead of actually engaging with what I wrote.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:27
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Nanomashoes posted:You're the guy that likes 12 Rules for Life so I'm not sure you should be in the literature thread. I think you might need to go back to C-Spam
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Jun 5, 2018 17:39
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I want to live in a world where literature has as much influence on contemporary society as the dude who wrote that article thinks it does.Squashing Machine posted:Criticism of the canon and how it gets chosen is completely fine, but I feel like I've definitely seen a creep of a kind of moralistic imperative in the criticism from a growing number of people. I've heard similar shots taken at Nabakov and Flannery O'Connor within my own circle, which seem to have everything to do with them casting sympathies in their writing at people these critics think should be relegated to two-dimensional nonpersonhood, for fear that there might be anything complex or thoughtworthy about them. What they seem to want is religious tracts for secular ideologies. Given the current cultural zeitgeist I think people being unwilling to suspend moral frustrations is a perfectly natural outcome. Its not necessarily two dimensional or moralization. Instead I would argue our culture is re-contextualizing how we confront distasteful people and ideas in art. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 17:45
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That article also reminded me of video game panic from the early 00's. Now I'm curious if any authors have come out against that article.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:46
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Man, what happened to this thread... This week, I finished Amongst Women by John McGahern and Philip Roth's Everyman. They actually share some themes, somehow, and I enjoyed both, but the former is better. e: to expand a little bit: Roth had me thinking, "that's rough", whereas McGahern's made me physically wince at times.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:46
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Franchescanado posted:That article also reminded me of video game panic from the early 00's. Now I'm curious if any authors have come out against that article. That whole debate frustrates me because both sides are wrong Yes, violent video games, like all media, do affect children's perceptions about the appropriateness of violence but no it doesn't affect them THAT way.
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Jun 5, 2018 17:49
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