|
Kai Tave posted:Sure, level 16 is the turning point for the ol' Murkster, but prior to that during the early laning phase some heroes make his life more hellish than others. Like, I don't mind laning against a Jaina because she's bursty but it's in a big, obvious, telegraphed way, she gets mana starved, and she's squishy. Kerrigan, by contrast, is bursty but in a much more relentless way that can easily dispatch your fish and then you and do so repeatedly without needing a break, and she has enough self sustain due to her trait that you can't even effectively grind her down by attrition. Yes I understand how Murky works. He is a strong boy though and I will make Maiev fear him like the rest of the heroes do
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 15:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:08 |
|
|
Macaluso posted:Yes I understand how Murky works. He is a strong boy though and I will make Maiev fear him like the rest of the heroes do He'll get put in the gently caress cage like everyone else. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 15:08
|
|
|
Not a big fan of implementing voice chat into HotS to be honest. It is one of the things I don’t miss from Overwatch and I enjoyed playing HL without feeling like I handicapped my team if I opted out of voice chat.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 15:26
|
|
|
How are Maiev's AA stats compared to other assassins? I think someone mentioned earlier that a lot of her damage is in FoK. Is she like Sonya level AA? Weaker?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 15:56
|
|
|
Star posted:Not a big fan of implementing voice chat into HotS to be honest. It is one of the things I don’t miss from Overwatch and I enjoyed playing HL without feeling like I handicapped my team if I opted out of voice chat. This is the only criticism that resonates with me. Opting out shouldn't be stigmatized but this is a MOBA so it's reason #374 your team might call gg at draft...
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:06
|
|
|
bamhand posted:How are Maiev's AA stats compared to other assassins? I think someone mentioned earlier that a lot of her damage is in FoK. Is she like Sonya level AA? Weaker?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:16
|
|
|
Oh man you can totally displace other players with a combo of her tether and her Spirit of Vengeance
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:19
|
|
|
Star posted:Not a big fan of implementing voice chat into HotS to be honest. It is one of the things I don’t miss from Overwatch and I enjoyed playing HL without feeling like I handicapped my team if I opted out of voice chat. Yeah, it's going to chase a lot of people who'd otherwise want to climb the ladder away because their choices are get harassed because they're a woman/have a weird accent/whatever the shithead of the day wants to harass them for or suffer a significant competitive advantage because every shithead's reaction to people being harassed is "lol just mute chat/just block them". It really needs to be friend/party only.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
That's going too far in the other direction. Voice chat with randos is absolutely a good thing as an option. I don't see an easy answer to the stigma problem, but I think the feature is worth the problem. Honestly if you just say "no mic but I'll listen" you'll probably be good except in very edge cases, but those folks will find a way to rage at you no matter how much you try and participate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:27
|
|
|
In anything below diamond you won't be missing anything by not hearing dumbasses say dumbass things, much like having chat off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:30
|
|
|
Nah, as a straight cis dude I've had "no mic, but i'll listen" (or, more accurately, "girlfriend's asleep but I can still listen") turn into a loving fiasco more times than I can count in comp overwatch, and it's going to be the exact same thing in TL. Anyone that's not "the default" (as hosed up a notion as that is) is going to endure even worse poo poo. Like Steph says, if you feel that the feature is worth sacrificing basically any minority perspectives in the game at the highest competitive level, then that's your prerogative, but at least listen to and acknowledge the arguments being made.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:31
|
|
|
BrianBoitano posted:This is the only criticism that resonates with me. Opting out shouldn't be stigmatized but this is a MOBA so it's reason #374 your team might call gg at draft...
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
Macaluso posted:Oh man you can totally displace other players with a combo of her tether and her Spirit of Vengeance It pulls them to where you were before you blunk though. I was hoping for hilarious Stitches shenanigans, but I don't think it's meant to be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 16:58
|
|
|
wiegieman posted:It's so great that almost every part of Maiev is designed with "gently caress Illidan" in mind, with a side order of "gently caress Genji." Is she, though? Her kit is all about bringing people to her. Illidan's a dive hero, that's exactly what he wants.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:Is she, though? Her kit is all about bringing people to her. Illidan's a dive hero, that's exactly what he wants. It's also about keeping people there even when they want to leave, and Illidan, after he's had his poke, he wants to get out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
A huge part of Illidan's strength is he can run away from people stronger than him, you only want to dive squishy casters. He doesn't want to dive Maiev because then she's going to wreck him. Same reason why Sonya is such a hard counter for him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:Is she, though? Her kit is all about bringing people to her. Illidan's a dive hero, that's exactly what he wants. Dive heroes tend to get themselves into trouble and denying them an escape can be a big deal. But you can also use it to keep Illidan off your squishier allies while they run away.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
bamhand posted:A huge part of Illidan's strength is he can run away from people stronger than him, you only want to dive squishy casters. He doesn't want to dive Maiev because then she's going to wreck him. Same reason why Sonya is such a hard counter for him. Counterpoint: Maiev has zero sustain and I don't think she has the burst to bore through Illidan's health. I mean sure, if you dive her while she's in the middle of her team, you're hosed, but that's generally true if you dive anyone who's in the middle of their team.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
I just learned malthael this week and was really enjoying him, hopefully the changes don't make me hate him. The ability to 1v1 almost anybody was so nice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:Counterpoint: Maiev has zero sustain and I don't think she has the burst to bore through Illidan's health. I mean sure, if you dive her while she's in the middle of her team, you're hosed, but that's generally true if you dive anyone who's in the middle of their team. She has a million hp and armor. What exactly do you think Illidan, a low DPS hero is going to do to her? Like imagine if Illidan dove Artanis (assume he doesn't have his shield trait), worst case scenario Art just walks away at 60% hp.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:01
|
|
|
I think Illidan wins the 1v1 vs high hp, low dps bruisers or at least comes very close. I mean I know he's bad but that would just be embarrassing.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
bamhand posted:She has a million hp and armor. What exactly do you think Illidan, a low DPS hero is going to do to her? Like imagine if Illidan dove Artanis (assume he doesn't have his shield trait), worst case scenario Art just walks away at 60% hp. Artanis has a shitload of sustain, especially if played well. Maiev has literally no sustain whatsoever. I mean if she runs, Illidan can easily chase her down, which I suppose she could use her health to lure him into a trap, but she's sure as poo poo not winning a 1v1.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
No Wave posted:I think Illi wins the 1v1 vs high hp, low dps bruisers or at least comes very close. I mean I know he's bad but that would just be embarrassing. Shadowlyger posted:Artanis has a shitload of sustain, especially if played well. Maiev has literally no sustain whatsoever. In what world would a player just sit there trying to 1v1 Illidan? Like are you saying Illidan also counters Johanna because eventually he will kill her? Here is what happens: Illidan dives into a fight, Maiev tethers him, Illidan explodes. OR Illidan dives Maiev 1v1, Maiev has 3x his HP and walks/blinks away while laughing. (Did you forget she has a blink?) It's not some kind of 1v1, Final Destination, No Items, scenario. bamhand fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
I'm sure the character who's primary damage ability is intended to hit multiple targets, has a CC aimed at pulling enemies into a small grouping, and both Heroics are CCs that set up wombos is a grade-A duelist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
bamhand posted:Illidan dives Maiev 1v1, Maiev has 3x his HP and walks/blinks away while laughing. (Did you forget she has a blink?) More like "Maiev runs away screaming while praying she makes it into range of a building/allies". Did you forget that Illidan is really good at chasing runners?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:23
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:More like "Maiev runs away screaming while praying she makes it into range of a building/allies". So you're saying Lili, Johanna, Muradin are all countered by Illidan as well? Because if given an infinite amount of time he can chase them down and kill them? Here are some heroes that have less health (after armor) than Maiev: Dehaka - 2531 ETC - 2525 Sonya - 2434 Zarya - 2314 All of those heroes just run away screaming when they see Illidan right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
bamhand posted:So you're saying Lili, Johanna, Muradin are all countered by Illidan as well? Because if given an infinite amount of time he can chase them down and kill them? Your twisting Shadowlyger's argument to be about Illidan countering Maiev when the original point of contention was that Maiev's kit wrecks Illidan him so bad he'll never want to dive in on her.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:40
|
|
|
BattleHamster posted:Your twisting Shadowlyger's argument to be about Illidan countering Maiev when the original point of contention was that Maiev's kit wrecks Illidan him so bad he'll never want to dive in on her. Ok. To clarify, Maiev is going to be really good against Illidan. However whether or not she can kill him 1v1, I don't know. But that's a pretty abstract question that would never happen in a real game unless someone was really incompetent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:45
|
|
|
bamhand posted:So you're saying Lili, Johanna, Muradin are all countered by Illidan as well? No you dumb gently caress, because those characters actually have ways to counter Illidan. Maiev doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:47
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:No you dumb gently caress, because those characters actually have ways to counter Illidan. Maiev doesn't. How is binding him to you so he can't run away from your murder team not a counter? What Battlehamster said made sense. Now I'm genuinely confused as to how you could think Illidan will be a strong pick against Maiev.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:48
|
|
|
I'll 1v1 Illidan as Murky come at me bitch
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
Illidan being able to easily win a straight up 1v1 against Maiev is important to know even if that's not a fight that is likely to happen. It means Illidan can bully her away to hold Sky Temple lasers or the Braxis objective if Maiev doesn't have an ally nearby. Maiev has tools to remove some of Illidan's strengths in a larger team fight situation, where her allies can follow through on the bind pull. That's what people mean when they say she's a counter to Illidan. Macaluso posted:I'll 1v1 Illidan as Murky come at me bitch Illidan's not that hard to 1v1 as Murky if you go tuffer/octo and he chases you. You can kite him really easily by changing directions when he flips over you (so he can't auto you for cd reduction), and it only takes a few slimes to get him into the hp kill zone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
HelixFox posted:Illidan being able to easily win a straight up 1v1 against Maiev is important to know even if that's not a fight that is likely to happen. It means Illidan can bully her away to hold Sky Temple lasers or the Braxis objective if Maiev doesn't have an ally nearby. Good point! I think Jo and Muradin can probably stall for quite a bit before backing in that situation and Sonya just straight up beats him. Is there anyone else? I think he beats 90% of all heroes in that kind of situation right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:52
|
|
|
Yes, Maiev would be great at dragging Illidan into the middle of a teamfight and keeping him there, but if you're any good at Illidan then you don't want to be anywhere near the middle of a teamfight anyway. You wanna be on the outer edge of the teamfight.bamhand posted:Good point! I think Jo and Muradin can probably stall for quite a bit before backing in that situation and Sonya just straight up beats him. Is there anyone else? I think he beats 90% of all heroes in that kind of situation right? Early game I find you get your poo poo wrecked against anyone who's got much sustain. I consistently find Gul'dans and Azmodans to be a pain in the butt, especially laser Azmodan. Once you get into the Shadowlyger fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:52
|
|
|
Umbral Bind seems much nastier against heroes that do regularly hop out of enemy teams like Genji and Muradin anyways.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
bamhand posted:Good point! I think Jo and Muradin can probably stall for quite a bit before backing in that situation and Sonya just straight up beats him. Is there anyone else? I think he beats 90% of all heroes in that kind of situation right? Pretty sure The Butcher also wins as long as he doesn't cast the self heal during evasion. But Illidan is one of the strongest 1v1 heroes yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
Shadowlyger posted:Yes, Maiev would be great at dragging Illidan into the middle of a teamfight and keeping him there, but if you're any good at Illidan then you don't want to be anywhere near the middle of a teamfight anyway. You wanna be on the outer edge of the teamfight. But what if the enemy team isn't out of position? If your team has an Illidan the team should be generally trying to stay close to their vulnerable targets to peel/support. It sounds like you're saying if Illidan can completely avoid Maiev then he will be strong against her?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
Raynor beats everyone at everything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
All teamfights happen in a frictionless vacuum where everyone is a rational actor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:08 |
|
|
beejay posted:Raynor beats everyone at everything. Raynor's knockback is super annoying when I want to stack slimes on him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2018 19:15
|
|